Hi Winston,
When I questioned the fact that you only posted the Scripture passage from Matthew 24:29-31 -- but gave no explanation, O No responds, "Gee Bill, it's pretty clear to me what Winston is saying he believes. I can tell by the part he put in bold text. Immediately after the tribulation...and they shall gather his elect from the four winds. That pretty much says it all."
And, you reply, "It pretty well speaks for itself. First, the tribulation. Then, the rapture. And it's the red-letter words of Jesus."
Yes, this passage is the words of Jesus Christ. But, what is He telling us? All Scripture must agree -- or we have the wrong interpretation.
You leave out a few very important events. Assuming the Tribulation does happen -- and, THEN, the Rapture -- where is the Bride of Christ, the church, during the Wedding Feast of the Lamb (Revelation 19:6-9)? Is there going to be a wedding WITHOUT the Bride? Since we know that Revelation 19 tells us that the Wedding Feast of the Lamb occurs -- and, then, His Second Coming; how did He have a wedding without His bride?
And, before the Bride can be wed to the Groom, Jesus Christ -- she must be prepared. We read in Revelation 19:7-8, "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His Bride has made herself ready. It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."
So, here we read that the Bride of Christ, the church, must prepare herself for the Groom. How is this accomplished? First, the Bride has to be in heaven with the Groom; second, the Bride must have already stood before Christ in judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 1 Peter 5:4) at the Bema Seat Judgment, or Believer's Judgment. Until the Bride has stood at this judgment; there is no way she can be dressed in fine linens and prepared to wed her Groom.
How can any of this happen IF the Bride, the church, is still on earth during the Tribulation?
So, obviously the Scripture passage found in Matthew 24:29-31 MUST be speaking of His Second Coming, when He will return to earth in glory and establish His 1000 year Millennial Reign from the throne of David in Jerusalem.
This is shown in this passage when it says, "after the Tribulation" and is affirmed when we are told, in this passage, of all the events of wrath occurring -- which we know from Revelation will only occur during the seven year Tribulation. And, it is confirmed when we are told in Matthew 24:30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
At the Rapture Christ will come IN the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18), not to the earth, i.e., His Second Coming. Only the believers, the church, will see and experience this event -- and the rest of the world, the secular world, will be wondering and speculating about where those billions of people went. They suddenly disappeared -- to where?
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up
(harpazo, rapiemur, rapture) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."
The Rapture has to occur BEFORE the Tribulation -- for during that seven years, according to the Bible, the church will stand before Christ in the Believer's Judgment, be given the clean white linen robes of His righteousness, and made ready for her Groom. Then, the Wedding -- and, at the end of the seven years -- His Second Coming as described in Matthew 24:29-31.
Matthew 24:29-31 (nkjv), "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
What does this passage mean when it tells us, " . . .and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"?
Who will be "His elect" who will be gathered? It will be the believers who survive the seven year Tribulation and are still on earth.
At the end of the seven year Tribulation, there will be believers (sheep) and non-believers (goats) who have survived the horrible Tribulation. One of the first things to happen after Christ returns to earth will be the "Sheep and Goat Judgment" (Matthew 25:31-46). Christ will say to those on His right, the sheep, ". . . inherit the kingdom prepared for you" (Matt 25:34). But, to the non-believers, the goats, He will send ". . .away into eternal punishment" (Matt 25:46).
The sheep, i.e., those believers who survive the Tribulation, will enter His 1000 year Millennial Reign on earth in their mortal bodies -- and will continue to marry and have children. Those of us who have been raptured, along with the Old Testament saints and the Tribulation saints, will share His Millennial Reign, His perfect Theocracy, with the mortal believers who survived the Tribulation.
One more solid piece of evidence that Matthew 24:29-31 is speaking of His Second Coming and not the Rapture is found in Matthew 24:36 which tells us, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."
In other words, His coming in the clouds to Rapture His church is IMMINENT, i.e., a moment no one knows, but, which could happen at any moment.
If the Rapture, His coming for His Bride, would happen during (MidTrib or PreWrath) the Tribulation -- or after (PostTrib) the Tribulation -- everyone will know when He is coming. In that case, there would be no IMMINENCY. We would all know exactly when He will return.
This cannot be for His coming to Rapture His church IS imminent. And, once again, this is why the passage in Matthew 24:29-31 is speaking of His Second Coming -- not the Rapture.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill