Hi Vic,
I had written:
Scripture defines and elaborates upon the SAVING RELATIONSHIP between Jesus Christ and ALL who will, by grace, through faith -- PLUS NOTHING ELSE, believe and receive His gift of eternal life. You do not find that in a religion which worships the physical church, men, i.e., the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, priests, etc. -- and which worships and prays to dead people.
If you want salvation, you need to get out of religion -- and get into a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ. That is the ONLY Way to eternal life (John 14:6).
And, you respond, "Before Jesus walked the earth or scripture -- we had a saving relationship with God."
What does Scripture tell us:
Romans 3:19-24, "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; (20) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified (saved) in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. (21) But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, (22) even the righteousness of Godthrough faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) being justified (saved)as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; . . ."
So, what is that Scripture passage telling us? It is telling us:
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Yes, my Friend, these Scripture passages are telling us that, by the grace of God, though faith alone in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross -- we are saved.
No church organization, no rituals, no traditions, no sacraments, NO works -- ONLY by grace, through faith -- ALONE! Seems pretty clear to me.
When are we saved?
Ephesians 1:13, 4:30, "In Him, you also, after listening (hearing) to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him (SAVED)with the Holy Spirit of promise, . . . the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for(or until)the day of redemption."
Vic, my Friend, this all seem so clear to me. But, then, my eyes are not clouded by any religion -- so, I can clearly see my relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
These Scripture passages tell me that "no one is saved under the Law" -- for the Law is only a tutor which give knowledge of sin. These passages tell me that we are saved, by grace, through faith in Christ -- plus nothing else.
And, they tell me that upon hearing the Gospel and Believing in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, i.e., "It is finished!" (John 19:30) -- we are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit. And, that seal CANNOT be broken (John 10:28-29) for we are sealed until the day of our redemption by our Redeeming Kinsman, Jesus Christ.
When will our Redeeming Kinsman, Jesus Christ, redeem us? That will happen at the moment a believer dies in this mortal body -- or at the moment we are Raptured from this mortal body.
But, let's take one last look at your statement, "Before Jesus walked the earth or scripture we had a saving relationship with God."
If that were true, then why did all Old Testament saints, i.e., believers, upon death, go into Hades/Paradise (Luke 16:19-31), also called the Bosom of Abraham -- instead of into heaven? Why? Because "NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Jesus Christ" (John 14:6).
So, those Old Testament believers had to wait in Hades/Paradise until Christ had been crucified, buried, and resurrected. Then, He took them into heaven (but though Me - John 14:6) and we find that happening in Ephesians 4:8.
Yes, the Jews and other believers in the Old Testament had a relationship with God. They believed Him when He promised their Messiah would come. And, when He, their Messiah, came -- He led them out of Hades/Paradise and into heaven.
Yes, the Jews had a religion -- and in that religion, they offered sacrifices to God. But, they had to keep offering those sacrifices -- for none of those sacrifices offered full forgiveness or salvation.
But, once their Messiah, Jesus Christ, came as the Perfect Lamb of God to be offered as the "once for all times" sacrifice -- then, they could enter heaven -- through Jesus Christ. In other words, they entered heaven because NOW they had that heaven relationship with Jesus Christ.
That RELATIONSHIP saves!
RELIGION does not save!
My Friend, I pray that you now have a better understanding of religions, relationship, and salvation.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
