HI OK,
You tell me, "Bill, you referred to those of us that don't believe in your OSAS theory as non-believers. If you consider these as "power words" they are also lying words and you have mis-represented us to your readers. We are believers, not non-believers, as you have branded us."
Well, yes and no. If you will read my introduction, you will see that I write:
I initially joined this forum because it was inundated and basically controlled by a handful of atheists, in alliance with a small number of other non-believers. My purpose in joining the Religion Forum was two fold: First, to refute their non-Christian teachings.
One of the hot-button issues which immediately draws the ire and stones from my non-believing Forum Friends -- is my contention that salvation is by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else.
Another "ire and stone attraction" is my belief that once a person has sincerely invited Jesus Christ into his/her heart, i.e., has become a true Christian believer -- that person has the personal promise of Jesus Christ that he/she HAS eternal life in Christ.
So, my whole focus is on addressing those folk -- those atheists and other non-believers who jump on these issues when I mention them. That was my focus. And, although there are Christian believers who also disagree with me -- my mental focus was not on them -- but, instead, it was on the atheist and other non-believers.
However, you are right that my post could be taken to imply anyone who disagrees with me on "once saved, always saved." And, with that line of thought in mind; then that would have been a misstatement! Therefore, to anyone in our Christian camp who thought I was addressing you; please believe that was not my intent. If any of my Christian Friends were offended, please accept my apologies.
I realize that many of my Liberal Theology Friends and also those who are in a more legalistic belief system, such as yourself, OK -- do not believe in "once saved, always saved" or in the teaching of "eternal security." That does not, in any way, mean that I believe these Friends are not Christian, nor that they are not saved. One is not saved by their theological beliefs -- but, only by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. So, I do offer my apologies for that misunderstanding or misstatement.
Now, you know why I wrote in my initial post:
Have I ever been wrong? You betcha! But, when I have found that my response was, in any way, erroneous or misleading -- I have sought to find the correct answer and submit that to my Friends.
I will say this. There have been times when I have been wrong in my interpretation of Biblical passages -- and, I pray that when this has happened, I have been, or am, able to correct that and move on.
So, I pray we can move past this boo-boo and keep walking as Christian brothers.
Then, you tell me, "At this point you are in sin and without repenting, asking us forgiveness, and Gods forgiveness -- you will be lost. Do you not agree? Do not lump us believers in with fish and deep."
No, I would never lump believers with Deep, Fish, or any of our atheist and non-believing Friends. While some of we believers have traded blows in the past -- the only really nasty and offensive attacks toward me have come from the non-believing side.
Yes, I made an error in what I wrote, or how I wrote it -- but, was that a sin? Possibly a sin of omission or oversight; but, not a deliberate sin of disobedience toward God, nor was it meant as an attack against you or any Christian believer. It was, as I said, a misstatement -- an erroneous statement.
But, when you ask, "At this point you are in sin and without repenting, asking us forgiveness, and Gods forgiveness -- you will be lost. Do you not agree?"
No, I totally disagree. And, if you would have watched the video before responding you would have understood why I say that I disagree. Once a person has been declared "righteous" by Jesus Christ; once a person has been declared "saved" by Jesus Christ -- His blood on the cross has paid our sin debt -- "in full."
That includes all past sins, all current sins, and all future sins. When His righteousness is imputed, attributed, to us -- from that point in time and forever -- when God looks at us, He sees only the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our "righteousness umbrella."
Romans 3:22, "Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; . . ."
Romans 4:4-5, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness."
Romans 8:10, "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness."
Can we ever have righteousness based upon us, our works, or anything else that we do? No. We are told in Isaiah 64:6, "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. . ." So, anything we do, in our right, to please God, i.e., works, etc. -- He sees as filthy garments. In our own righteousness, we can NEVER be saved; for God cannot look upon our unrighteousness.
However, when Jesus Christ hangs His umbrella of righteousness over us -- all God sees is His righteousness when He looks at us. When we believe and receive Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior, we become children of God (John 1:12) -- He adopts us into His Family. Once in His family, no one can snatch us out of His hands (John 10:28-29). From the moment we become children of God, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of our redemption (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30). The day of our redemption is the day we die or are raptured.
So, Ok, when you ask, "At this point you are in sin and without repenting, asking us forgiveness, and Gods forgiveness -- you will be lost. Do you not agree?"
First, I have not sinned. I made a statement which could have been, and obviously was, misunderstood. But, I still do apologize and ask your forgiveness for not being more clear in what I wrote.
However, when you say that a sin, any sin, can cause me, or anyone, to lose our salvation -- that is absolutely wrong. As we can see above, from the moment of our salvation -- we are indwelled and sealed for God by the Holy Spirit; no one can snatch us out of His hands because we are children of God -- and, we will stay adopted into His family until the day of our redemption.
But, does that give us a license to sin? Absolutely not! Every believer will have to stand before Jesus Christ at the Believer's Judgment, Bema Seat Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 1 Peter 5:4) -- and account for everything we said or did in this life. For all our sins, we will have to answer for that sin directly to our Lord Jesus Christ. If we, by word or deed, hurt another -- we will have to answer for that directly to our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is no "free ride." And, I can imagine that it will be very, very uncomfortable standing before our perfect Lord -- explaining all the petty, nasty, and sometimes viscous things we do to others in this life. No "free ride." No "get out of jail free" card.
Only a very flawed, but forgiven, sinner explaining every single sin to our Lord -- while He looks us in the eye.
Let me close by strongly suggesting that you watch this video by Dr. Charlie Bing. I had heard of him before; but, this is the first time I have seen his work. I am very impressed -- with his theology, with his demeanor, with his teaching skills, and with his message. In my opinion, he was right on the mark.
Even if you do not believe in "once saved, always saved" -- do yourself a favor and watch his video anyway. Either you will become a believer in "eternal security" -- or you will learn good arguing points to support your own belief system. Either way, it is time well spent.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill