As I posted before, quoting the red-letter words of Jesus Christ:
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Matthew 24:29-31 ASV)
Clearly, the rapture follows the tribulation.
Winston, clearly you are not using the Bill approved version. I don't have the time now, but will later, address this very passage. YOU ARE RIGHT though, I BELIEVE, and context is a very important thing when you read scripture and the context of this passage clearly indicates you have it right. Christ was directly ask by the apostles how to recognize the end times, how to know it's legit, and what will happen. IF you take Bills approach, which he believes what other Pre-Trib folks preach, then you need to reconcile why Christ doesn't mention and indicate the Rapture in this passage of Matthew. IF indeed Bill is right, and verses 29-31 deals with the 2nd Coming ,and the Rapture occurs before this 2nd coming, then where in Matthew 24 does Christ reference the Rapture, the Hope of the Church where the Church is removed??? It's simply not there because of either one of two options. Either there is no rapture, taught by Christ, or verses 30&31 refer to the Rapture and Bill is wrong, as are the other Pre-Trib Folks. If Christ did not speak about the Rapture in Matthew 24 then why not? I say, as you indicated, He did talk about the Rapture and that was in Verses 30 & 31. Note it fulfills the description exactly down to the "Trumpet blast" and in the air. The only reason Bill rejects what is clearly taught is because it doesn't confirm to HIS belief or what he has been taught by other pre-tribulationist pastors and teachers. Careful examination of scripture along with prayer I fully believe will reveal, through the Holy Spirit giving peace about, that the church and Christians will endure hard times before the rapture and extremely hardships at the hands of those under the antichrist.
Additionally using the verse Bill highlighted in his first post (Revelation 3:10 & 1 Thessalonians 5:9) do not eliminate other Rapture timing positions. What those verse say is that the Church will not enter into GOD'S Wrath. The Pre-Trib folks wrongly associate Revelation 6 (Seals) with God's Wrath but they are not. Pre-Trib advocates, like Bill, have to reference Revelation 4:1 as symbolic of the Rapture ( I say symbolic as there is no literal reference) because there is no other place, in Revelation, that pre-trib advocates can put the Rapture. God said that the Church will not go through God's wrath and they wrongly say Rev 6 is God's wrath. Revelation 6 is predicting of events that will happen during those last days preceding the cosmic signs of Revelation 6:12, the same as in Matthew 24:29. The Church won't go through God's wrath but will go through parts of the Tribulation and through harsh tribulation brought on by the Antichrist against God's people.
The actual Rapture is shown in Revelation 7, verse 9. The fact is that, although Bill will deny it, the Pre-Trib Rapture timing position has no scriptural basis. The Church and Christians are cautioned to endure and persevere through tribulation ( see each letter to each of the 7 Churches) and at the end of the letters they are told to overcome. If they are to be gone before any tribulation then why overcome? Also if the Church is to be out of the world before the Antichrist (which is what Pre-Trib folks teach) then why worry about having to deny and reject the mark of the beast? Why worry about 666 for the Church won't be here. IF however the Antichrist comes before the rapture and the Church has to endure persecution under the Antichrist then there is very good reason to advise about not accepting the mark of the beast. There are other verses that indicate that the Rapture will occur after the Antichrist is on the scene also:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (AMP)
{1} BUT RELATIVE to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and our gathering together to [meet] Him, we beg you, brethren,
{2} Not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here.
{3} Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition),
{4} Who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.
{5} Do you not recollect that when I was still with you, I told you these things?
Note also those that like to say no one knows the time it will happen also have a hard time reconciling that believers/Christians are told that they are NOT in Darkness that the day should overtake them as a thief. They aren't in darkness because it's laid out in Scripture and by Christ when to expect the Rapture.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 (NLT)
{1} Now concerning how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters, we don’t really need to write you.
{2} For you know quite well that the day of the Lord’s return will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night.
{3} When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape.
{4} But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief.
{5} For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night.
{6} So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be clearheaded.
Don't worry Winston you may not have Bill on your side but you do have Scripture, at least as far as what you posted on Matthew 24:30 & 31 goes.