Crusty, my post simply said and meant to indicate Congress (the Government body of Congress) authorized for the 20,000 Bibles in English to be procured and then distributed to the people.
Sold to the people.
They were not forcing people to take them or become Christians, they didn't tell them they had to be Baptist, Methodist etc. The act of authorizing them to be imported and then approving that authorization, on Sept 11, 1777 was done fully expecting that they would be purchased. So in their minds, when they AUTHORIZED it to be done they approved the purchase of them, for that purpose. The fact that they were not purchased meant things changed, conditions changed but what did not change was the reason they wanted to import them.
Understand that this wasn't something they just decided to do. Someone approached them about the shortage of bibles and later Aitken came along and tried to get quite a bit more "patronage" of his bible than they were ever willing to commit to.
They were also never purchased because they changed their mind deeming it to be a violation of Church and State.
I think you misstated your position here. I'm reading you to say that Congress thought the bibles were a violation of Church and State, but I'll concede what you are trying to say. Understand also, that this is the Continental Congress we are talking about. The Constitution is still many years away.
I know you are intelligent enough to realize that had the same wording, exact same thing, been done today it would be soundly opposed and voted down claiming it was a violation of separation of Church and State.
Yes, as it should be. Unless maybe if the same conditions existed today, and the bibles were acquired and then sold in order to avoid price gouging. I'd want someone with Constitutional Law background to rule on that. But what would happen if Congress decided to do the same with the Koran? Would you be for purchasing the Koran and distributing it to citizens through the use of tax dollars?
If it was passed as it was then, by Congress, you know the ACLU would have it in front of a Court and it would be judged to be in violation of the First Amendment. You surely cannot say that would not be the case. Surely you also realize that by authorizing the Bibles to be imported, had they been purchased and imported then they would indeed have been paid or purchased by Congress and our Government.
Actually, I don't. One of the problems they ran into was that the cost was prohibitive, and if I read it correctly, the loss of life to acquire the necessary material was considered. There was a war going on.
I don't care if Government changes and today they decided not to purchase Bibles but don't say that the founders, the authors of the Constitution and drafters of the First Amendment would not have done so. Don't try and convince me that the interpretation of the First Amendment hasn't been changed over the years. Just honestly answer whether or not the exact same action that was fully legal then would not be judged illegal today based upon the First Amendment interpretation.
You keep lumping the actions of the Continental Congress with the Constitution, which didn't exist. I don't know what the first Congress of the United States would do in this matter. I do know that the writers of the Constitution were very much for Separation of Church and State. Thomas Jefferson (not a signer of the Constitution, but one who made arguments during the debates leading to the Bill of Rights) is one of the main proponents, and actually uses the language Separation of Church and State in his writing.
Things like putting up a nativity scene on government property, display of the ten commandments if a judge so wants to. First Amendment hasn't changed from the way the original people put it but the way it's interpreted has changed.
The writers of the Constitution purposefully left much to be decided by future lawmakers, and specifically set up the Supreme Court in order to make interpretations and judgment as future history unfolded. They've been doing it for 250+ years, and interpretations change all the time. Yes, I agree with you.
Once more, also, I don't say and haven't said we are and were a Christian Nation, only for Christians, but I do say we were a NATION OF CHRISTIANS, founded by Christians fleeing from a government that had become a theocracy. They knew what a theocracy was and what it was to be forced to believe a certain way without provision for personal beliefs or interpretation and therefore they wanted to insure our country's government would not transform into such. I fully believe, and always will, that they never meant to write God out of Government. IF that was the case there never would have been "IN God We Trust" imprinted on each designed money piece of the Government.
The Constitution was ratified in 1789. In God We Trust didn't show up until 1864. The Founding Fathers were pretty much out of the picture by then. "Under God" was put into the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950's. I do believe they meant to write God out of government, and Thomas Jefferson supports me in this.
It would have been defeated then and there. It may be deemed unconstitutional by some advocate judge in the future but only because they, personally, changed the meaning and intent of the Constitution in order to get the ruling they desired. No one wanted the government to force religion on anyone but the government was to PROTECT everyone's right to worship as they wished.
Yes, everyone's.
As was said by someone, maybe you, in another post. If it had been a nation of Muslims at that time it would have been the Koran and we'd be bowing toward Mecca. That ought to prove it was a nation of Christians, with faith in God, the Christian God that was responsible for our laws and Constitution and freedoms. The desire for freedom to worship as they wanted morphed into the Freedoms that we all enjoy today. If it had been Muslims I very much would wager you that we would not be having this conversation today. I wager that women would not have the vote and Freedom would still be a desire in many people's heart. God believing and Christian people were responsible for what became America and our Constitution. TODAY though because so many people reject God, don't believe in God we are to Change the intent and meaning of the Constitution to something that it was never meant to do. That's my sincere opinion and belief.
Question for you, why do you believe the Continental Congress sought to acquire bibles? And are we a Christian Nation, or a nation that supports freedom of all religions?