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Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
i think i see what b50m meant...
just because he CAN know everything, doesn't means he CHOOSES to know everything.
you CAN know what's in each box under the christmas tree, but you choose not to, until it's time. you could easily find out what's coming up in your fav TV show, by checking the spoiler sites in the net. you cna know the ending of the book by reading the last chapter first.
but you don't.
i've long believed that the idea of knowing absoloutly everything that is, was, or ever shall be would be horrible.
sure, i'd make a ton of money on the lotteries and horse tracks and casinos for a couple years. but then imagine spending the next 40 years knowing everything that would happen every second of every day, everywhere on earth.
you could make insane money. you could save lives by the billions.
but you would be bored to tears for the rest of your life.
now, imagine the same thing, only for Eternity.
This is not possible. If you know everything and you created everything, there is no choosing to ignore part of it. If you know, you know. If God is powerful enough and capable of knowing us from before the womb, then He's powerful and capable enough to know everything.
Something to consider....
I think you're like me, nagel, in that you believe you can ask God for forgiveness...just between you and Him, or you can ask Him to make your sick baby well, etc...again, just between you and Him (no priest, pastor, etc.).
And let's say you're a life-long atheist and have a lightbulb moment one day...something convinces you God
does exist. So, by yours and b50m's argument, God could
choose not to hear the prayer...to know you've accepted Him.
He can also choose not to hear the prayer for your baby to get well, etc. See what I'm saying? If He's omnipotent and one can pray to Him at any time, He's got to be available to choose to hear it and know about it 100% of the time.
If he can be available for prayer 24/7, why can't he know our outcomes?
Oh, and I cited the wrong Bible passage in my last post. I did go back and edit. Unfortunately, this back-pew-cut-up didn't pay very much attention to the Bible and now has to google everything.
(Geez, it's too late in the evening to be having this kind of conversation.)
Hmm.
ok, you're right, that's a toughie.
i'm not ready to dismiss the idea just yet, but your point has serious weight
alright. how about this -
lets say i have the fianancial spending record for the state of alabama in a database on my computer.
( i don't. jeez, who'd want to?)
but.. because i have instant access to it, i *know* everything that alabama spent money on last year. i don't
KNOW the individual facts until i open the file and look it up, tho.
God knows my life, every second of it. but maybe he doesn't
KNOW my life until he has a cause to open my personnel file, so to speak.
like 2 seperate modes of conciousness. one for the day to day hum drum, the other for pertinent details, that he doesn't access until it's needed?
i'm not trying to say he isn't capable of knowing it all, just that perhaps he chooses not to know something until he needs to know it.
right now at 3am, i don't have a need to know the oil level in my wife's honda. tomorrow before we go anywhere i need to know it, so i'll check it.
right now He doesn't need to know who.. uhm. .what bill clinton is doing. when he needs to know, he'll look and he'll know.
Nothing is hidden from God's eye - but maybe he isn't always looking at everything all at once.
/shrug - just a thought.
but in the meantime, a prayer is like an email or an IM. you know, dingdingdingDINGding BZZZZZZ all in your face. His face.
i think He does answer prayers, but for reasons we'll never understand, he doesn't always give us what we ask for.
i used to pray for children when i was married to my first wife. the prayer was never answered with a child. today, i give him thanks for knowing what i needed and ignoreing what i wanted
sometimes he has answered what i wanted by giving it to me, and when i ended up burnt, i could imagine Him saying "ok.. how about you let ME drive from now on?" so now when i pray i just go with "please give me the things you want me to have, and thanks for all the things you've given me" (phrased in various ways, so neither of us get bored with it)
and you're right. i am a lot like you in that repsect. matthew 6:5+, starting after the begats, is one part of the bible that really does connect inside me. not the begats. who cares?
i think most of the bible is just empty words. morality tales and threats to keep people in line, kings and priests using god's name to add weight to their desires.
but some of it rings true, some of it makes sence, some of it really *feels* like the word of god. primarily the 4 gospels. most of the rest just comes across as the authors opinion. says Paul of the wonderful state of marriage - ' it's better to marry than to burn.' meaning ' you really ought to spend your life chaste and pure, but if you're just to weak to do that, get married first.' yeah. great wise holy man. pffft. a far cry from being joined as one flesh, being fruitful and having little fruits.
the first bit of matthew is like that for me. it really has the flavor of god in the words, if that makes any sence?
anyway. your right, it's late.