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Have any of you or someone you know had acupuncture treatments? I have a TMJ problem that the facial pain specialist says is a muscle problem. One or more muscles are pulling my jaw out of joint. I have an oral appliance (like a mouth guard that fits over the teeth to keep the upper and lower teeth separated), muscle relaxers and was told to take Advil. I don't mind the oral appliance, but I really don't like those muscle relaxers. Even the smallest dose makes me a zombie in the morning. All these do help after several days of muscle relaxers (an extended visit to La La Land) and wearing the mouth piece when I am not eating (or rather when I am not drinking my meals - I can't chew). I would really like to not take the muscle relaxer unless absolutely necessary and maybe try the acupuncture. Do any of you know anyone who has had acupuncture for TMJ? Is it ongoing treatments like chiropractor treatments? Most important, does/did it work?
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
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This is interesting, GoFish. I had read only that it helped with muscle and nerve malfunctions by blocking the nerve messages going to the brain. As you can tell, this is my take on what I read and is not at all scientific. Then I read this (after going to the site you mentioned) that I found at http://www.holisticonline.com/Acupuncture/acp_how_works.htm, "Like a road or highway, these nerves can handle only a limited number of nerve signals at one time. The pain signals travels very slowly. We can generate other signals which move faster. The faster signals crowd out the slower ones because of the limited capacity of the nerves."

Dear me! Does this mean that if I take a sledgehammer to my foot, I will not feel the pain in my jaw because the pain in my foot will generate faster signals that will crowd out the slower ones in my jaw? Of course that scenario is a bit over exaggerated.

I am remembering that I saw something at the top of the online paper. There was a photo of a young woman with pins sticking out of her face. I don’t have time to read everything and haven’t read whatever that was. Maybe whatever article that is will still be online. I will go see. I may be duplicating another discussion somewhere, if so, my apologies…
moodymama, my sister has TMJ, along with migraine headaches, which could possibly be caused by TMJ. The doctor's aren't sure, just guessing. She's on medication but it doesn't completely stop the pain, only dims it somewhat.
She has been to Memphis, Birmingham, Huntsville, local specialist, etc. She's had surgery in Birmingham & Memphis that were supposed to help or stop the TMJ pain. Nothing has worked.
If you try the Acupuncture, let me know if it works for you.
I agree with GoFish though, that it will do nothing but decrease your bank account.
quote:
Originally posted by moodymama:

Dear me! Does this mean that if I take a sledgehammer to my foot, I will not feel the pain in my jaw because the pain in my foot will generate faster signals that will crowd out the slower ones in my jaw? Of course that scenario is a bit over exaggerated.



That's how it works in my nervous system. Smiler
Although it DID help my wife and I, after reading all the negative posts, I've changed my mind.
go ahead, DO THE DRUGS, what've you got to lose?. After all, what do those Chinese know, they've
only been practicing it for over 3 centuries. Silly Chinese! Hey, once we get socialized medicine,
your pain meds WILL BE FREE!!!! Eeker Your bank account won't know what hit it. My 2 cents
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
go ahead, DO THE DRUGS, what've you got to lose?. After all, what do those Chinese know, they've
only been practicing it for over 3 centuries.


Acupuncture has been practiced in China for more than 2,000 years - perhaps much longer. Astrology has also been practiced for at least that long. Blood letting and application of leaches for disease control was practiced for at least 300 years. Scientists once thought that the smell of rotting flesh caused the Back Plague.

More discussion of the fallacy of acupuncture is here:

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php?p=14

Dr. Steven Novella, the author of this blog, is one of my heroes.
Just last week, a Doctor in Huntsville told me that i had severe TMJ, and that I could go to the oral maxofacial surgeons across the river on the Bluff in sheffield, and get a device,not like the appliance that you were talking about, I have one of those too, but another type of device that would help me out and maybe help delay surgery, I believe when it gets that bad, that surgery is the final answer, but I'm trying to keep from having it until I have to. I'll get back with you when I find out what kind of device the Dr. was talking about.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gracieadeline:
Although it DID help my wife and I, after reading all the negative posts, I've changed my mind.
go ahead, DO THE DRUGS, what've you got to lose?. After all, what do those Chinese know, they've
only been practicing it for over 3 centuries. Silly Chinese! Hey, once we get socialized medicine,
your pain meds WILL BE FREE!!!! Eeker Your bank account won't know what hit it. My 2 cents[/QUOT


You are a tad bit abrupt, but your message is right on target! I don't care why it works, how it works, or anyone's evidence to the contrary. For me, desperate times calls for desperate measures! I saw Dr Li for chronic back pain, and it was a miracle!! My TMJ has been so bad for so long, it is bone on bone. There is almost no joint whatsoever. Thank God I have not had the pain with mine that you are having. They tell me it is just a matter of time, though.

When I saw Dr Li, it cost me about 100.00 for the visit and supplements I brought home. BEST money I ever spent! You don't have to believe me. Just call it an experiment. I had absolutely no faith in it whatsoever, and went because a friend had been after me to go. I'm telling you, it is amazing!!! Besides, I have spent at least 100.00 on a lot stupider things!
Maggie-
Rereading my post, it did seem a little abrupt, though it was meant as sarcasm. It's just that the vibes on most of these forums is so negative. A sweet lady asks a question, and you give her an honest answer from your own experience, and then here it comes; all the experts of their own opinions tell you that what you know isn't true. That there is no 'credible evidence', that acupuncture is on the same level as 'BLOOD LETTING, LEACHES, or YOU MIGHT AS WELL DROP A SLEDGEHAMMER ON YOUR FOOT! Now those comments can be catagorized as a "tad abrupt". I was merely telling her of my and my wife's experience. I wasn't trying to convince her one way or another. The rampant negativity is why I generally stay off this forum.
No way you have to explain yourself to me, LOL!! I am well aware of the 'Resident Know-It-All-Jerks" around here! People who think their experience is THE ONLY experience there is. I am in total agreement. The 'tad abrupt' was also sarcasm, because what you said was so little of what I thought was coming, LOL! I am so in your corner on this!

Tac, I only went once. He suggested a Calcium and Magnesium supplement and something else. I can't remember what. I think it was 60.00 for the visit itself. I would absolutely go back, in a New York minute!!
quote:
Originally posted by Maggie2:
When I saw Dr Li, it cost me about 100.00 for the visit and supplements I brought home.


I would be GRAVELY concerned over any sort of "supplement" supplied by a holistic "Doctors." Would you care to share the name of some of those "supplements"?

My dear wife has been snookered by some of these claims and has been advised to take some supplements that I researched and were found to cause severe liver damage, thyroid issues and and other very severe side effects.
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
that acupuncture is on the same level as 'BLOOD LETTING, LEACHES, or YOU MIGHT AS WELL DROP A SLEDGEHAMMER ON YOUR FOOT! Now those comments can be catagorized as a "tad abrupt".


The truth someones hurts. I only stated factual data. Acupuncture is a no more effective than blood letting in reducing your pain. Translation: If you "believe" it will work, it often will. I would suggest you pick of a book on Yoga instead of throwing your money at discredited practices and "supplements."

Using these kinds of services seems innocent enough until come across someone like Susanne Summers who wrote a book on how holistic medicine or supplements cured her cancer and advises everyone to stop their cancer treatments and take her magic herbs.

You, Maggie, are doing the same thing by supporting pseudoscience and urging others to try it.
GoFish, you wouldn't know 'truth' if it hit you between the eyes, as it has on several occasions that I am aware of. You don't have to believe anything. I don't care. I am telling what the truth is for me. How can you argue my truth?? I am telling what happened with me. MY experience! You really are a piece of work.
quote:
Originally posted by Maggie2:
I am telling what the truth is for me. How can you argue my truth??


Maggie, your "truth" is, in fact, your subjective opinion. The truth is that there is no evidence to support that acupuncture is any more effective than other forms of quackery.

Yes, obviously acupuncture has given you some relief. I cannot deny you of that, of course. But there is no scientific, or medical basis for "meridians" or "ch'i" and ying and yang. There is nothing in the medical literature that gives any credibility to the claims of "pressure points" that are directly related to various organs and pain/pleasure centers.

You are promoting 2,000 year old medicine, Maggie. The world has moved far beyind that.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:

Acupuncture has been practiced in China for more than 2,000 years - perhaps much longer. Astrology has also been practiced for at least that long. Blood letting and application of leaches for disease control was practiced for at least 300 years. Scientists once thought that the smell of rotting flesh caused the Back Plague.



Yeah, but leeches and maggots are back in as legitimate medical treatments in certain situations. Notice you said "scientists once believed..." As you have pointed out yourself, science is ever evolving.

Many herbal remedies that were in use prior to the advent of "modern" medications have been shown to have the medicinal properties for which they were being used. Taxol comes to mind as a current drug derived from the bark or leaves of yew trees. Sometimes science is circular.

Until medical science can diagnose and treat at the cellular level, there will always be an element of art in the practice of medicine, along with trial-and-error and unscientifically verified forms of treatment. Currently, electrotherapy is used by orthopods, flashing lights in psychiatry, magnets in neurology. How do they work? No one knows, but they all give some relief in some cases. Maybe it is just a placebo effect.

If I'm in constant pain, and nothing else works, I would give acupuncture a shot.
GoFish, your 'truth' is a subjective opinion, as well. You are measuring your truth by what other have written in books or journals. Not your experience. I am measuring my 'truth' by my personal experience. Not the experience of others. Neither do I speak from an authoritative perspective, as you do. For some reason, you interpret what others have written, not your own experience. In effect, you are saying, "I read this and I believe this" I am saying, "This is what happened with me."

BTW, my experience is not 2,000 years old. It happened about a year and a half ago. When was your?? Wait, I forgot. Never mind.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
Yeah, but leeches and maggots are back in as legitimate medical treatments in certain situations. Notice you said "scientists once believed..." As you have pointed out yourself, science is ever evolving.


Of course it is.

Religions was also one of the driving forces behind the development of science and organized schools we now know as "college." Science once believed that bumps on your head could be helpful in diagnosing mental illness. This eventually resulted in modern neurobiology. Most of current medical science developed through early trial and error through the death and suffering of millions of people. In fact, it still owrks that way. One day our current science will appear as primitive as blood letting.

But when you ahve been shown the evidence that a particular medical practice is a sham it seem quite ludicrous to continue to insist on its effectiveness.
quote:
Originally posted by Maggie2:
BTW, my experience is not 2,000 years old. It happened about a year and a half ago. When was your?? Wait, I forgot. Never mind.


Maggie, I am not saying acupuncture was not effective for you. All I am saying is that the evidence indicates that it was all in your head. That does not mean you are stupid or that you imagined it all. It simply means what it means.

It is great that you have found some relief but the evidence suggests that you could have found the same relief without giving your money to a quack.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Maggie2:
I am telling what the truth is for me. How can you argue my truth??


Maggie, your "truth" is, in fact, your subjective opinion. The truth is that there is no evidence to support that acupuncture is any more effective than other forms of quackery.

Yes, obviously acupuncture has given you some relief. I cannot deny you of that, of course. But there is no scientific, or medical basis for "meridians" or "ch'i" and ying and yang. There is nothing in the medical literature that gives any credibility to the claims of "pressure points" that are directly related to various organs and pain/pleasure centers.

You are promoting 2,000 year old medicine, Maggie. The world has moved far beyind that.


But let's support modern medicine!

We can commit suicide when we only meant to treat asthma! We can die from heart failure when we only meant to treat heart disease! We can give our children MASSIVE doses of narcotics. (I worked in a pharmacy and almost puked at the amount of narcotics prescribed to children--6 concertas a day!!!!! Narcotic patches for kids!!! JESUS!) Needless to say, I quit. I don't go to doctors anymore. I would have to average that half of Colbert County takes at least 4 hydrocodones a day for random things like "migraines" or "back pain". Some people don't, but I was SHOCKED at the amount of pills people purchased! One elderly couple (60s maybe) took a combined total of 16 medications a month!!!! And they didn't have any kind of life threatening diseases or cancers either. Just typical stuff. High blood pressure, arthritis. We are killing our KIDNEYS AND STOMACHS! I was also shocked at the amount of Viagra/Cialis men take in the Shoals. Must be something in the water Wink
But that's a side effect of taking all that pain medication. IMPOTENCE!

Now I only see the dentist for my mouth's sake Smiler I have not been sick in 3 years. I have only had one major surgery and it was to remove my wisdom teeth (because they were about to push one of my molars out) I never take flu shots. I never want one! They only have a 50% chance of working! I'll drink O.J. and live a healthy lifestyle thank you! You can have your modern day medicine. The FDA is a crock of crap and the drug industry knows that.

But I am probably a little biased, I am married to a massage therapist Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
Maggie-
Rereading my post, it did seem a little abrupt, though it was meant as sarcasm. It's just that the vibes on most of these forums is so negative. A sweet lady asks a question, and you give her an honest answer from your own experience, and then here it comes; all the experts of their own opinions tell you that what you know isn't true. That there is no 'credible evidence', that acupuncture is on the same level as 'BLOOD LETTING, LEACHES, or YOU MIGHT AS WELL DROP A SLEDGEHAMMER ON YOUR FOOT! Now those comments can be catagorized as a "tad abrupt". I was merely telling her of my and my wife's experience. I wasn't trying to convince her one way or another. The rampant negativity is why I generally stay off this forum.


Frowner I am the one who made the statement about the "sledgehammer on the foot". I, too, was being sarcastic, but I was not the origin of that joke, I saw it years ago in some comedy skit. Saturday Night Live comes to mind, but I cannot remember exactly where I saw it. I never meant to belittle your or anyone else's opinion and I really appreciate your input!!

I have found out that the Mayo Clinics - and who can you trust if not the Mayo Clinics???-- have announced that they feel there is some benefit from acupuncture. I found this abstract online: http://www6.miami.edu/touch-research/Accupuncture.htm

So, I am going to try it. I have a doctor's appoint this Friday and I plan to ask for a reference. Even though my insurance won't pay for it, I would like to find a reputable acupuncturist (is that a word?) and hopefully my doctor will know of one.

Thanks everyone for all your help!
[COLOR:BLUE]Tact, I will probably go to the Dr. across the river on the bluff, but with my luck with medical stuff, It probably wont' work with me, but I will try it and keep your sister's experience in the back of my mind.

Maggie I already take calcium, and magnesium, along with several other supplements, which are regarded highly to help with chronic pain,especially back pain. Just my opinion. Whatever work, try it.
I have a friend that uses acupuncture as a relaxing effect. She goes to Huntsville once a week & she said she feels much better since she been going.
I sure wouldn't tell anyone not to go if it's working for them. Wink

Has anyone ever tried Hypnosis? I've often thought of using it for weight loss.
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
Maggie-
Rereading my post, it did seem a little abrupt, though it was meant as sarcasm. It's just that the vibes on most of these forums is so negative. A sweet lady asks a question, and you give her an honest answer from your own experience, and then here it comes; all the experts of their own opinions tell you that what you know isn't true. That there is no 'credible evidence', that acupuncture is on the same level as 'BLOOD LETTING, LEACHES, or YOU MIGHT AS WELL DROP A SLEDGEHAMMER ON YOUR FOOT! Now those comments can be catagorized as a "tad abrupt". I was merely telling her of my and my wife's experience. I wasn't trying to convince her one way or another. The rampant negativity is why I generally stay off this forum.


quote:
Originally posted by Maggie2:
No way you have to explain yourself to me, LOL!! I am well aware of the 'Resident Know-It-All-Jerks" around here! People who think their experience is THE ONLY experience there is. I am in total agreement. The 'tad abrupt' was also sarcasm, because what you said was so little of what I thought was coming, LOL! I am so in your corner on this!


I hope I didn't come across as a "know it all expert" or a "Resident Know-It-All-Jerk. I was just giving my opinion. I've never been to see one but I won't say that I wouldn't give acupuncture a try. You never know what works for one might work for another. I wouldn't completely rule it out.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
I have a friend that uses acupuncture as a relaxing effect. She goes to Huntsville once a week & she said she feels much better since she been going.
I sure wouldn't tell anyone not to go if it's working for them. Wink

Has anyone ever tried Hypnosis? I've often thought of using it for weight loss.


Maybe I should do both acupuncture AND hypnosis...couldn't hurt!
Have you ever considered having a chiropractor adjust it? I never would have thought about that until I mentioned the TMJ problem to a local chiropractor I had this problem since I was rear ended several years ago and lo and behold, one adjustment 6 months ago and let me tell you about some sweet relief! Knock on wood, no problem again so far. He used some sort of big silver thing against my jaw and it was a miracle. I know it sounds awful, but it is almost like a spring loaded ball ping hammer thing, but it didn't hurt, honestly. I don't know the name of it. And this isn't an April Fools joke in spite of the previous mention of dropping a sledgehammer on ones foot! I'm serious!
quote:
Originally posted by SaltyDog:
Have you ever considered having a chiropractor adjust it?


I urgently suggest you check with your astrologer before undergoing such a radical medical procedure!

Please educate yourself:

http://www.chirobase.org/

It is high time we admit there is nothing conservative, holistic or natural about endless care, creating addiction to manipulation, or making unsubstantiated, cure-all claims. On the contrary, an excellent argument can be made that the variety of tricks, techniques and claims still used by a large percentage of our profession to keep fully functional, asymptomatic people returning for care is fraudulent. I wonder how long it will take for our profession to realize that overutilization not only damages our reputation, but also costs us millions of dollars of business per year in lost referrals.—G. Douglas Anderson, D.C., Brea, California [Food for thought, 1999. Dynamic Chiropractic 17(1):13,36, 1999].
quote:
Originally posted by SaltyDog:
Have you ever considered having a chiropractor adjust it? I never would have thought about that until I mentioned the TMJ problem to a local chiropractor I had this problem since I was rear ended several years ago and lo and behold, one adjustment 6 months ago and let me tell you about some sweet relief! Knock on wood, no problem again so far. He used some sort of big silver thing against my jaw and it was a miracle. I know it sounds awful, but it is almost like a spring loaded ball ping hammer thing, but it didn't hurt, honestly. I don't know the name of it. And this isn't an April Fools joke in spite of the previous mention of dropping a sledgehammer on ones foot! I'm serious!


I use a chiropractor in Russellville & he uses that "ping hammer" thing too. It's amazing what it can do & it's pain free. I was looking at having to have surgery on my rotator cuff but thanks to that little hammer, I have complete use of my shoulder with no surgery & that's been 4 years ago. I can't think of the name of that little hammer either. Smiler

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