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butterflier,
I am so sorry to hear that you have had such tragedy. And I, for one, support you in whatever 'party' you have or vengeance you are looking for. If I were in your shoes, I can't say I'd be feeling different than you.
I am praying that you can find whatever relief you are looking for, though. I am afraid, however, that the deaths of these people will not bring it. The intense feelings you have now will eat you alive. You will come to see the whole world as a hostile place and all who live here are evil. That will be the real tragedy here. If it weren't bad enough, your loved one is dead, but to let that evil person steal your soul, well, that would be too much. IMHO
quote:
Originally posted by moondancer323:
How can anyone call themselves a Christian and approve of legislated "murder"?
What about forgiveness? How do you forgive someone and be gleeful about them being put to death?
I'll pray for you...hopefully the light will find it's way into your heart some day.



How can you throw rocks at someone who is hurting so much? Her heart is broke! She is already hurting so much and this is what she gets from you?? I am praying for your judgmental, self-righteous heart myself!
No Christian celebrates the death of anyone. Hearts will only be healed if one wants it to be and it will never heal filled with hate.

God was with all loved ones taken under horrible circumstances and welcomed the faithful as their souls left their earthly bodies.

That does not stop the hurt in those left behind but they will hurt forever if they live in hate.
I have lost a loved one to tragedy so I've walked in butterflier's shoes...sort of. Each situation is different. BUT, the horrible hurt that you experience with each situation is the same. With our situation, I DO NOT wish the responsible person death. I think that would be way to easy for them. I want them to sit in a small cell, confined and stripped of their freedom, to think about what they've done and how they screwed up their life.

I do feel that each person has to deal with the tragic death of a loved one in their own way. Hopefully, they are able to deal with it in a way that will allow them to let go of their anger and focus on the life their loved one would want them to have.

Butterflier, from someone who shares your hurt….I do pray that you find some sort of comfort and peace. Otherwise, the hurt and anger will eat you alive and that is no way for you to live.

Like you, there is a piece of me missing that will never be healed but I do know that I will not let the perpetrator have the ability to say he/she killed two people instead of one. I know that my loved one would not want that for me.

Sincerely, I wish you all the best...along with peace and comfort.
quote:
Originally posted by moondancer323:
How can anyone call themselves a Christian and approve of legislated "murder"?
What about forgiveness? How do you forgive someone and be gleeful about them being put to death?
I'll pray for you...hopefully the light will find it's way into your heart some day.


I am a Christian and I SUPPORT Capital Punishment. The Bible says to forgive but it also says that you must pay for your transgressions. Even though I don't think we need to throw a party over someone's death, I do believe that Butterflier needs to forgive the person that took the loved one. Not for the murderer's sake. Forgiveness is for the sake of the one that is suffering. If you don't learn to forgive then sooner or later it will kill you.

"Give unto God what is God's, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar." Authur committed a crime under Caesar(State Law) and a sin against God. He can ask for his sins to be forgiven and still get into heaven but he must also Pay the state through his death.

Prayers goes out to his family and the victims family that this may bring closure for them all.


A Good book to read is "Forgive For Good" teaches you how to forgive.
quote:
I am a Christian and I SUPPORT Capital Punishment. The Bible says to forgive but it also says that you must pay for your transgressions. Even though I don't think we need to throw a party over someone's death, I do believe that Butterflier needs to forgive the person that took the loved one. Not for the murderer's sake. Forgiveness is for the sake of the one that is suffering. If you don't learn to forgive then sooner or later it will kill you.

"Give unto God what is God's, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar." Authur committed a crime under Caesar(State Law) and a sin against God. He can ask for his sins to be forgiven and still get into heaven but he must also Pay the state through his death.



Then you must support abortion too?
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer1:
I am a Christian and I SUPPORT Capital Punishment.


And this is not about Christians supporting Captial Punishment - it is about celebrating death. You can't tell me that it is ok to celebrate killing in any form.

American Baptists in the USA, the Catholic Church, the Episcopal Church (the United States branch of the Worldwide Anglican Communion), the National Council of Churches (which represents 35 mainstream Protestant and Orthodox churches), the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Reformed Church in America, the Unitarian Universalists, and the United Methodist Church, have all denounced and called for an end to Capital Punishment in the United States.

Some seem to take this position because it is inconsistent with Christian teachings, and some take it because it is applied unfairly on the poor and minorities. For either reason, they thankfully and prayerfully have determined it is wrong. Celebrating its application would surely be wrong even in those groups who somehow find a way to support it.
For those of you that may in some way think as I do thank you, for those of you that don't I don't care. I am not allowing hate to eat me alive. I am a very peaceful person and I do not hate others, unless they do my family wrong. I actually am a very calm and rational person. And the person who MURDERED my family member didn't get death so he will die a slow death in a small cell which I am happy about also. But our family will have to spend the rest of our lives trying to make sure this person NEVER gets out of jail which will forever keep it in our lives so that we cannot completely heal. So I will have my party if he dies before I do and if not I will expect the remaining members of my family to have that party, because they will finally be able to breathe a breath of relief that they won't have to attend another parole hearing or be afraid that he will escape from prison.
quote:
"Give unto God what is God's, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar." Authur committed a crime under Caesar(State Law) and a sin against God. He can ask for his sins to be forgiven and still get into heaven but he must also Pay the state through his death.



Is abortion not "the law"?

I think we may be picking and choosing...in the name of God!
quote:
Originally posted by butterflier:
For those of you that may in some way think as I do thank you, for those of you that don't I don't care. I am not allowing hate to eat me alive. I am a very peaceful person and I do not hate others, unless they do my family wrong. I actually am a very calm and rational person. And the person who MURDERED my family member didn't get death so he will die a slow death in a small cell which I am happy about also. But our family will have to spend the rest of our lives trying to make sure this person NEVER gets out of jail which will forever keep it in our lives so that we cannot completely heal. So I will have my party if he dies before I do and if not I will expect the remaining members of my family to have that party, because they will finally be able to breathe a breath of relief that they won't have to attend another parole hearing or be afraid that he will escape from prison.


You've mentioned before that this person got life with the chance of parole. If he had received the death penalty, yes, he would have been in a small cell until the sentence was carried out, but those who receive life sentences are in with the general population. The Birmingham News will frequently run articles with pics of Holman and Donnally, and some cable channel recently did a series on Holman. These men live stacked like sardines--it may not be as horrible as that small cell, but you can be assured the man you speak of is being punished.
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer1:
quote:
Originally posted by moondancer323:
How can anyone call themselves a Christian and approve of legislated "murder"?
What about forgiveness? How do you forgive someone and be gleeful about them being put to death?
I'll pray for you...hopefully the light will find it's way into your heart some day.


I am a Christian and I SUPPORT Capital Punishment. The Bible says to forgive but it also says that you must pay for your transgressions. Even though I don't think we need to throw a party over someone's death, I do believe that Butterflier needs to forgive the person that took the loved one. Not for the murderer's sake. Forgiveness is for the sake of the one that is suffering. If you don't learn to forgive then sooner or later it will kill you.

"Give unto God what is God's, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar." Authur committed a crime under Caesar(State Law) and a sin against God. He can ask for his sins to be forgiven and still get into heaven but he must also Pay the state through his death.

Prayers goes out to his family and the victims family that this may bring closure for them all.


A Good book to read is "Forgive For Good" teaches you how to forgive.


Amen....I agree...
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
I know this man is probably guity and deserves what he gets,but what bothers me is why won't they do the DNA testing? I think everyone should be entitled to that,especially if it involves the death sentence.What are they afraid of?


I agree with you, they should test the DNA. I read a few months back some info that his daughter had posted on a web-site. It really made me wonder. Seems like all of the facts just don't add up.

I remember him from long-ago. My best friend lived down the street from him. He was pee-wee football coach in 60's and younger kids really liked him. So sorry that his life went wrong.
Well, he was serving a sentence for murder (with witnesses) when he was arrested.

He was at best somewhere he wasn't supposed to be when the murder happened, because he wasn't at work. That's escape right there. Just look at an article in today's paper if you think it isn't.

They found the money for the killing in his things. Was it planted? Who would really believe that?

I think he hopes the DNA is so degraded that it will cast a doubt.
If the defense can introduce new evidence, such as un-tested and previously un-admitted ecidence, DNA, they could petition the court for a new trial. Tommy and his defense hope that if they are granted a new trial based upon new evidence, nearly 30 year old DNA, will be so degraded that they can push the 'reasonable doubt' button with some jurors and come away with a lesser sentence.

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