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Ask an atheist

GSmanGSmanEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Veep,

I have no children, but if I had one, I'd respect his/her (its) decisions.

One of my parents respected mine. One did not. Guess who enjoyed my love and respect.

The cultural influences that make people embrace religion are profound and powerful. You know as well as I that many people pretend to religion just to be a member of the biggest club around.

There are some of us who simply cannot believe the tortured and absurd stories of religion. We know better now. There are some of us who understand that religion is untrue, but pretend to believe for social, business, golf, club, and other cultural reasons.

Some of us believe it hook, line, and sinker. What ya gonna do?

As adults and parents, we must give leeway to the youngsters. They listen to execrable music (so did we), they wear their hair in scandalous fashion (so did we) and their political/religious views are beyond our experience (so were ours).

Oddly, religious beliefs tend to become more orthodox over time, with social pressure. Less understandably, some perfectly grown up adults are Democrats. go figure.

There's room for all religious ideas and convictions. That's all I ever wanted to communicate here. Atheism is a perfectly respectable philosophical outlook. It's defensible.

Made-up myths are less defensible. Why should they get more respect?

Hugs.


Billy Joe,

I agree with you, well said and true.

Hugs.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Agree, BGBG.
An truly educated person should be able to debate EITHER side of an issue, I believe.
Not with equal internal conviction, of course, but fact and premise.

Now, my question for the athesist. Lol.

If you are a parent, would you be disappointed if your child were to embrace Christianity? Would you believe them to be settling for "fairy tales"? Honest..


Great question vplee. I was starting to think you weren't going to participate Wink I'll post a reply by tonight, as I'm off to work.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
quote:
There's room for all religious ideas and convictions. That's all I ever wanted to communicate here. Atheism is a perfectly respectable philosophical outlook. It's defensible.


Agree, every conviction is equally valid. There are scientific approaches, pure religious approaches, and a mixture. I'll go with mixture.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Why do atheists study the Bible?

Wouldn't that be like a Jew eating pork?


Good question, thank you.

An atheist reading the Bible, therefore is not in any way counter the lack of belief, it's an acquisition of knowledge/information.

Thanks A. I thought that was it.
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Agree, BGBG.
An truly educated person should be able to debate EITHER side of an issue, I believe.
Not with equal internal conviction, of course, but fact and premise.

Now, my question for the athesist. Lol.

If you are a parent, would you be disappointed if your child were to embrace Christianity? Would you believe them to be settling for "fairy tales"? Honest..


Veep,

What would you do if your college freshman son or daughter came home and told you he found this cool religion called Scientology? Oh, and could he borrow $500 for some auditing sessions?
FM Former Member
quote:
What would you do if your college freshman son or daughter came home and told you he found this cool religion called Scientology?


after I peeled myself up off the ground, took a xanax, drank a bottle of wine, and smoked ummmm a doobie, lol...

I'd likely take them to our Priest, I guess and discuss. If they really felt conviction? What the heck can you do? Nothing my kids can do would cause me to "cut them off" ....Nothing.
Would I be happy? No.
We would prob. have a long discussion with family and friends and priest. You just have to respect people's decisions. At that age, present them will all options, and tell them the door is always open.
I would MOURN for the child, for I would feel that they have given up the Faith that I BELIEVE is the fullness of life, and the fullness of our Lord. But can I beat it into them? No. I guess I would stress the fact that I will pray they come back to the Church.
We lead by example, and I can only do the best I can to lead them into a strong Faith life.
Hopefully that example will serve them well enough.
If not, no worries- I'll take away all credit cards.
Big Grin
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Intentional, I would think. LOL.

I have tried to understand Scientology, but when the 'founder' L.Ron, stated he could make money by starting a religion, how can you believe any of it?


You can't, b.

It's just that, a racket well versed in psychological techniques.

Scientology hurts people. It's a multi-level marketing enterprise of a cult and destroys gullible people for the enrichment of the cynical and evil people up the line.

I could be uncharitable about other "religions" at this point, but I will defer that until later. Now, Scientology.

It's very true that the liar and conman L. Ron Hubbard created Scientology for money. He was a devotee of Alistair Crowley, the Satanist, before he invented Scientology.

Google "Xenu Ron Hubbard". You'll be shocked at the core beliefs of Scientology. What you might not know is that it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars for pious Scientologists to reach the level at which Xenu is explained to them. In the meantime, every shred of privacy and independent thought they may enjoy is stripped away and recorded to their disadvantage.

We are Anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Watch for us.
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
My dear Veep,

It's no longer trendy. Scientology has its successes, but the trend is for defection. In America, at least, it is no longer on the ascendancy, thank god.

Scientology squeezes money from it's adherents. It pressures them into the monastic life of the Sea Org. It aims to own their personalities.

The recent trend for the "faithful" is to abandon Scientology, at least in America.

Unfortunately, whether it's Dominionism or Scientology, or other, wicked religion will take what it can get, for as long as it lasts. The people at the top will get rich, the people at the bottom will suffer disaffection and financial ruin. Such is the nature of those wicked institutions.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Now, my question for the athesist. Lol.

If you are a parent, would you be disappointed if your child were to embrace Christianity? Would you believe them to be settling for "fairy tales"? Honest..


I am a parent and I do not believe I would be disappointed if a child of mine chose to embrace religion. As I've said earlier, when the time is right, our children will be exposed and educated to all different viewpoints and beliefs on supernatural matters, some of which might stick. So be it. My only personal beef would be if their "path" did not lead to contentment and happiness while they're still alive. Even if so, I don't see that there would be much more that I could do (depending on age, obviously) than to explain how and why I felt about their choice.

People's religiosity doesn't disappoint me, it's the people themselves (regardless of religious affiliation) that can be disappointing. I am married to a religious person and even though we don't believe the same, we've always managed to get along quite famously. We agree to disagree on many religious matters but such discussions are thankfully not out-of-bounds or taboo at home. Fortunately, our own views are unthreatened by the fundamental difference of opinion of the other. I don't perceive it would be different with our children once they've become secure in their own beliefs.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
What do you think is so appealing to celebrities about Scientology? Is it a power/invincible thing? Where is the appeal?
Curious as to why you think it is so "trendy".


Celebrities that are Scientologists are massively catered to and coddled by the "church" just like they are elsewhere, if no moreso. They are treated very different from the other adherents. They have their own separate buildings, are treated like cherished VIPs and are given unique access to the church leaders along with special ways to spend large amounts of money to advance their understanding. If you're a regular Joe, you get none of this except commensurate ways to spend money.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
Well said A.

Did anybody see the take on Scientology done by South Park? Priceless. Germany is smarter than the US on this one.



http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/stat.html
Official German responses to Scientology

The German government has for quite some time maintained that the chief purpose of Scientology is not religious, but economical in nature. According to the Government, Scientology disguises itself as a religion if this might be advantageous. For example, in the remainder of Yugoslawia Scientology has claimed to be a non-religious organization. In Greece, Scientology (KEFE) claimed to be a philosophical, not a religious organization. And when Scientology as founded in South America in 1955, one of its goals was "... to lend and borrow money" (this slip has since then been corrected).

The German government maintains that Scientology is dangerous for its members and possibly dangerous for society. Members are spending huge efforts and large amounts of money; high debts (> 50,000 US$) are not uncommon. Wages are low, often below welfare levels.
GSmanGSmanEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
Does random mutation involve free will on the part of coded clusters or are there certain ‘favorite’ genes that do not allow us to fly?


No one wants to tackle my question? Ummm?



I’m shocked to say the least. I thought ‘ask the atheist’ would be appropriate to find the answer.
Maybe they have been ‘faking’ as in orgasm to understand evolution.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
A R,
There is a controversy over crosses along the highway representing killed law officers in Utah.

An atheist org is suing saying it violates church and state. The group who put up the crosses call them secular and just represent a death.

Now, of course, the cross is a symbol of Christianity but it is also used to mark graves of people of different faiths or no faith.

So is the beef justified or would they still object if they also put up the Star of David, A Crescent Moon, a Buddha figure, etc....?
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
A R,
There is a controversy over crosses along the highway representing killed law officers in Utah.

An atheist org is suing saying it violates church and state. The group who put up the crosses call them secular and just represent a death.

Now, of course, the cross is a symbol of Christianity but it is also used to mark graves of people of different faiths or no faith.

So is the beef justified or would they still object if they also put up the Star of David, A Crescent Moon, a Buddha figure, etc....?


The cross is used, in our culture, to identify death sites of everyone because our culture is overwhelmingly Christian. It ain't necessarily so in Thailand.

Even in Utah, shouldn't the roadside monuments show a man surrounded by his wives?
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
Does random mutation involve free will on the part of coded clusters or are there certain ‘favorite’ genes that do not allow us to fly?


No one wants to tackle my question? Ummm?



I’m shocked to say the least. I thought ‘ask the atheist’ would be appropriate to find the answer.
Maybe they have been ‘faking’ as in orgasm to understand evolution.


Maybe everyone else but me has you on ignore...don't know. Seems like it though.

I couldn't even begin to attempt to answer your question. Sounds like something that you should ask a Biologist. If you know one and you truly want the answer to your question, I suggest you start there.
SK Sofa KingHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
quote:
Originally posted by GSman:
Does random mutation involve free will on the part of coded clusters or are there certain ‘favorite’ genes that do not allow us to fly?


No one wants to tackle my question? Ummm?



I’m shocked to say the least. I thought ‘ask the atheist’ would be appropriate to find the answer.


This question has nothing to do with atheism but everything to do with science so I'll take a stab.

This is an incoherent question. However, if I squint my eyes to force it to make some sense, it becomes a simple logical fallacy asked out of ignorance.

The question of "free will" is a philosophical one, not a scientific one. I do not know if free will exists or not. I could argue for and against it with equal conviction.

"Favorite genes"? I don't know what that means. All genes, as far as we know, are equal in the eyes of he Creator. All are subject to random mutation from a stray nugget of uranium, gamma rays, environmental (chemical) factors and so on . Those mutations present themselves in three different ways: Those that are beneficial, those that are harmful (and the vast majority or mutation are harmful) and those that have a neutral effect.

The bad mutations do not propagate through a species since the individuals generally do not reach maturity or are otherwise unable to reproduce.

The neutral (junk) mutations have no effect so we end up with long strands of genetic code that seemingly serve no purpose.

Then there is the rare mutation that has a positive benefit (or at least no negative benefit) such as the ability to metabolize milk from another species - a singular positive survival trait that spontaneously cropped up about 10,000 years ago. Those that do not have this random mutation are called "lactose intolerant." Those mutations are passed on to the next generation and so on.

Eventually, those kinds of infinitesimally small, random beneficial mutations and environmental conditions eventually allowed us highly evolved apes to develop machinery that spectacularly allowed us to overcome the forces of lift, thrust, weight, and drag and eventually allowed us to conquer the moon.

True story.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
I'm going to repost my question so AR can find it.
quote:


Posted 19 August 2010 11:24 AM Hide Post
A R,
There is a controversy over crosses along the highway representing killed law officers in Utah.

An atheist org is suing saying it violates church and state. The group who put up the crosses call them secular and just represent a death.

Now, of course, the cross is a symbol of Christianity but it is also used to mark graves of people of different faiths or no faith.

So is the beef justified or would they still object if they also put up the Star of David, A Crescent Moon, a Buddha figure, etc....?
SK Sofa KingHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Well done Sofa.

Lucky me, I didn't get the lactose digesting gene.
Milk becomes a nightmare for the digestive tract.


That generally indicates that your ancient ancestors are likely out of the Far East (or perhaps Africa to a much lesser degree). The ability to metabolize milk seems to be a trait that evolved in what is now Russia and western Europe.

Most oriental people are lactose intolerant as are a significant percentage of black people.
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