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Bill Gray is known for his ridiculous cartoons that he posts along with the diatribes he writes.  Lately there have been several new ones where a person is quoted saying things that would make uneducated, noncritical, or just ignorant people believe that homosexuality isn't determined biologically.

 

I'm going to start with three of his latest and dispute each in turn. 

 

One might also look at the website Bill is getting these from.  While it calls itself "Heterosexuals Inspiring Pride" it is really just an anti-gay marriage site.  

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Welcome to Alabama! Cut your grass or we'll whoop your ass. -- NashBama

un til them go OBAMA and hang in their. -- rechardbettyrey

you are the most dishonest person I havem ever met on the Religion Forum! -- Bill Gray

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I have asked Bill to name one reputable person of science (in a relevant field, physicists don't count for this) that claims that homosexuality is not biological in origin, but just a matter of trauma and other psychological forces.  So far he hasn't produced any.  

 

He did come up with this gem though, that claims Camille Paglia to be a "Lesbian Activist".

 

 

 

 

Camille Paglia

 

From the research I've done on Camille Paglia I have found that she is considered one of the leading "intellectuals" in the country.  She's not a scientist.  She's a writer.  She is in fact a lesbian, and an activist.  The only time that she is termed a "lesbian activist" or a "homosexual activist" is when this quote is presented.

 

What she really is is a radical feminist activist.  She makes her living teaching, saying, and writing things to shock people. 

 

Remember, she is gay.  One of her quotes is: "My problem is that I do not get along with lesbians at all. They don't like me, and I don't like them."

 

If Bill is going to trot out Camille Paglia as proof that the determination of sexual preference isn't biological, he is going to have to accept these other "truths" that she has written or spoken:

 

'Paglia has said that she is willing to have her entire career judged on the basis of her composition of what she considers to be "probably the most important sentence that she has ever written": "God is man's greatest idea."' <<--- Atheism

 

"Woman is the dominant sex. Men have to do all sorts of stuff to prove that they are worthy of woman’s attention."  <<--- Contrary to Paul

 

"My argument has always been that nature has a master plan pushing every species toward procreation and that it is our right and even obligation as rational human beings to defy nature's fascism. Nature herself is a mass murderer, making casual, cruel experiments and condemning 10,000 to die so that one more fit will live and thrive.” "<<--- Darwinian

 

"It is woman’s destiny to rule men. Not to serve them, flatter them, or hang on them for guidance." <<--- What do you say, Bill, do you buy this, too?

 

"Jesus was a brilliant Jewish stand-up comedian, a phenomenal improvisor. His parables are great one-liners." <<--- Or this, Bill?  You buying this, too?

 

Bill, should I post this to your Facebook page?

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  • Camille Paglia

Next up is this "graphic".

 

 

Simon Levay

 

Let's start by looking at the sub-caption: "Homosexual researcher".  I am absolutely certain that Dr. LeVay would not characterize himself as such.  Dr. LeVay has substantial credentials in Neuroanatomy.  Until the study that he conducted from which the above misquotes are drawn, his principle area of research was in the visual cortex of animals.  He also gave lectures on human sexuality. 

 

Let's look at the first line of the "quote" above.  Notice that only part of that is his words.  The rest is added to misrepresent his findings.  The Liars for Jesus love to trot this around.  They do it so much that Dr. LeVay has apologized to the gay community for any harm the wackadoodles have caused them. 

 

" This article reported a difference in average size between the third Interstitial Nucleus of the Anterior Hypothalamus (INAH3) in the brains of heterosexual men and homosexual men: INAH3 was more than twice as large in heterosexual men as in homosexual men. The INAH3 size of homosexual men was the same as that of women. LeVay wrote that "This finding indicates that INAH is dimorphic with sexual orientation, at least in men, and suggests that sexual orientation has a biological substrate.""  [There is in fact a biological tie-in]

 

That is what it found.  The one quote the wackadoodles keep throwing out simply says that he didn't find anything else conclusive concerning the biology - or lack of it - regarding a "homosexual center in the brain".  His one study didn't show that gays were born that way.  It also didn't show they were not born that way. 

 

This is typical for the Liars for Jesus crowd. 

 

What Dr. LeVay does say in a later writing is:  "The findings on INAH3 fit very well with the model put forward by Hirschfeld nearly a century ago, and in my view they greatly strengthen the notion that the development of sexual orientation, at least in men, is closely tied in with the prenatal sexual differentation of the brain. But it is important to stress several limitations of the study."

 

So, once again, Bill has his Liar for Jesus cap on and is misrepresenting the truth.

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Here is Bill's third graphic:

 

 

Dr. Robert Hicks

 

Notice that Dr. Hicks has degrees in psychology, theology, and national security studies.  He is well educated, but he isn't a scientist.  What he is is a theologian who uses discredited Freudian psychology to bend the truth to somehow fit the Bible, or vice versa. 

 

As one critic writes about one of his books:  "Hicks’s book is not based fully on the Bible, but rather on his own personal experience of what it means to be a man. He forms arbitrary stages, in which to place his own personal experience and subjective psychological notions. By giving biblical labels to these stages and mixing in some biblical truth, he makes it appear that the Bible validates everything he says about manhood."

 

Another paper that critiques his book from which the above quote is drawn says: 

 
 
"There are numerous theological problems revealed in this
book. The nature of man, as created in the "image of God," is
flawed. The original condition of man is erroneous. The author's
view of sin distorts biblical truth. This cracked foundation has
crucial implications for sanctification, where again the author's conclusions are unscriptural."

 

Another says: "One can conclude that Hicks uses suspect methods for biblical study. He misrepresents his sources, misquotes Scripture, and neglects important evidence in both the Bible and secondary sources. He ignores context and simple Hebrew syntax. He is given to simple mistakes and over-generalizations. He is selective in dealing with the biblical terminology relevant to the study of manhood, preferring to conform biblical revelation to human theory."

 

So, Bill, is this your new go-to-guy?  Is this what you will offer up as scientific proof that sexual preference is non-biological in nature?  A guy who can't even get his theology straight?

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  • Dr. Robert Hicks
Originally Posted by poochyena:

people say bill is an idiot.
I say people that respond to him are the idiots.

_____

I agree, I was one of those idiot's & that's why I have the old fool on block. Nothing anyone says to Bill or any argument they make is going to make a difference, it's a complete waste of time to try. He's one of those people that believe he's right & everyone else is wrong.

Satan did well when he chose Bill Gray to do His work.

Hi Crusty,l

 

Thank you for keeping this line of thought active.  Now that you have shared about my graphic posts, let me ask another favor of you.

 

Will you please give us a link which proves, beyond all doubt, that a "gay gene" does exist and is in our DNA.   Not from some rattle brained atheist, or from a "I will prove God wrong" agnostic or vanilla flavored non-believern such as yourself.  But, from a qualified medical or science based research.

 

By the way, here is a link I believe you will find interesting, which again tells us that "NO ONE is born gay" -- and it does quote doctors and scientists, as well as homosexuals:  

 

http://pfox.org/Can-Sexual-Origintation_Change.pdf

 

Appreciate all your help.   Let's keep telling folks that God would NOT create a person to be an abomination in His eyes.   Admittedly, some do turn out like you -- but, God leveled the playing field and gave everyone an equal chance for eternal life -- when He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die in our place.  

 

But, if you insist upon blowing that chance, that is your choice, for He also gave you "free will" to follow Him or to deny Him.  Deny Him at you own risk and peril!

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Bible Still Relevant Today

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  • Bible Still Relevant Today
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

Will you please give us a link which proves, beyond all doubt, that a "gay gene" does exist and is in our DNA.   Not from some rattle brained atheist, or from a "I will prove God wrong" agnostic or vanilla flavored non-believern such as yourself.  But, from a qualified medical or science based research.

 

_________________
Another fundy smoke and mirrors question.  No one claims there to be a "gay gene".  The rest of your post is just the equivalent of "Jesus Loves Me, But Hates Your Guts".  Hell isn't going to be fun for you.

Well Bill let's look at your link.  It quotes a couple of unnamed gays, a couple of psychologists and is so old that it quotes Dr. Robert Spitzer.  The same Dr. Robert Spitzer who retracted the study the quote used is from, and apologized to the gay community. 

 

This is him admitting to mistakes in his interpretation

 

He specifically calls on PFox - the source of your link - and NARTH, to stop using his quote.

 

He says that "the people who are pushing the ex-gay idea are so full of hatred for homosexuality really that I don't think they can respond in an ethical way."

 

So, once again, anti-gay propaganda supported by no scientific evidence. 

 

Okay, you just keep putting your nonsense, your lies, and your fundamentalist propaganda here, and I will keep knocking it down.

Wow, Crusty,

 

My Friend, you give me a National Geographic (the mother of liberal organizations) video -- and that is the "truth upon which you stand? 

 

"National Geographic explains the biology of homosexuality"

 

Isn't that something like asking Hitler explaining Ethnic Cleansing?

 

Crusty, my Friend, if you are so enamored with homosexuality and that lifestyle, okay.   I am not trying to convert you.  I am only speaking the truth -- and let the chips fall where they will fall.

 

Bless your confused little heart!

 

Bill

Marriage_OneMan_OneWoman-OUTLINE-1

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The National Geographic was just one of the many ways that I debunked your whole homosexuality is a choice myth.  You have yet to provide one reputable source from a relevant scientific field that supports your claim.  In your own words, you are just throwing it against the wall and seeing if it will stick.  

 

The point is, Bill, you can't convert me to being gay, just as you can't convert gays to being straight.  Even the religious wackos that have tried to have folded shop and apologized for the harm they have inflicted.

 

You keep telling your lies, I'll keep debunking them.  Jesus doesn't need or want your lies.

Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "The National Geographic was just one of the many ways that I debunked your whole homosexuality is a choice myth."

 

That is the one you offered -- and that is the one to which I have given a response.  If you have others which are not athiest, secularist, or Ultra Liberal -- show us.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Going to trot that one out again, Bill?  I have debunked every one of your falsehoods above, and all you can come up with are non-responses. 

 

Just for fun here is a butt load of studies that show there is a biological origin to sexual orientation.  I expect you to refute each reference or shut up.

 

Link

 

Honestly, your continued denial of the science just proves you've been brainwashed by the fundamentalist cult.  Your ridiculousness rivals that of Wile E. Coyote.

 

 

bill wiley

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Hi Crusty,

 

From your link:

 

The relationship between biology and sexual orientation is a subject of research.  A simple and singular determinant for sexual orientation has not been conclusively demonstrated -- various studies point to different, even conflicting positions -- but scientists hypothesize that a combination of genetic, hormonal and social factors determine sexual orientation.

 

And, since even your science cannot give us an answer -- why not go back to the ultimate answer, the sole authority for salvation and Christian living -- God's Written Word, the Bible?

 

What does God say in His Bible:

 

Genesis 1:27, "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

 

"In His own image."   Now, unless you are saying that God is homosexual -- I guess that rules out a person being born gay.

 

"Male and female He created them."   That seems pretty clear also -- "male and female" -- Adam and Eve.   NOT Adam and Steve, or Eve and Rosie.

 

And, we will not even bother to go into God's descriptions:  abomination, unnatural, unnatural act, detestable act, contrary to sound teaching, etc. -- I believe you know that story line.

 

Good link, Crusty.  We are on the same page.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Marriage_OneMan_OneWoman-OUTLINE-1

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Typical, reading comprehension fail, once again.  What's wrong, Bill, the article too long to read?

Could only make it past the first paragraph?  Or did you read it and realize that to respond intelligently would require you to finally give up your ridiculous belief system?

 

Well, Bill, we aren't on the same page.  Nice dodge though.  Try refuting just one of the references.  We can go from there.

 

It wouldn't be me saying that God is homosexual, it is your false, heretical interpretation that could lead you there though.  See how morally and spiritually bankrupt fundamentalism and bibliolatry are?  You need to get your house in order.

 

Oh, and stop quoting Leviticus until you give up pork.

Here's Bill's latest lie for Jesus.  On this Facebook page he posted the following:

 

COURTESY OF YOUR UNITED STATES POST OFFICE - Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, and -- Happy Gingerbread House!Merry Christmas? Of course not -- that has CHRIST in it! Isn't it wonderful being able to celebrate another Secular/Atheist Holiday Season once again. I am sure Mr. Obama and all his folks will truly enjoy it.

But, for everyone else -- Please keep in mind that we VOTE IN 2014 and 2016! When you VOTE let's all wish each Liberal and RINO a Happy Gingerbread House -- as we retire ALL of them and send them out to pasture. For all you real Americans, have a wonderful and very MERRY CHRISTMAS! I realize I am a wee bit early; but, with Obama in the White House, who knows if I will have another chance. God bless, Bill

stamps 1463675_10152413163044097_1219466345_n

 

What Bill left out, is that the USPS also has three Christmas stamps in circulation that have a Christian theme.  Every year they issue  two new Christmas stamps, one is more "traditional" than the other. 

 

Here are the three currently in circulation:

 

 

stamp 582004-01-main-96x124

stamp 679540-01-main-96x124

stamp 688704-01-main-96x124

 

So, Bill is either lying, gullible, or just plain stupid or some combination of the three.

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Hi Crusty,

 

My Friend, I am so happy that you have begun to read and comment on my Facebook Notes page.  You are always welcome on any venue where I write.

 

On Facebook, you tell me:

 

Crusty Mac:  You missed the 3 stamps issued by the USPS that are Christian in subject. I guess things aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Here is one of the three.

 

And, I respond:


Bill Gray:  Hi Crusty, It is about time you came out of the Religion Forum closet and began to post as my Facebook Friend.

Yes, that stamp which you show is on the USPS web site. However, the mailer which they sent to our mail boxes has only those stamps shown in the photo. I am certain of that -- for I received that mailer via snail mail myself.

So, as I said, the USPS may, to save face, show the Christian stamp on their web site -- but, the stamps which they are pushing on their public mailer are those three: Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Gingerbread House. God bless, Bill

 

My Friend, I pray that you and I will have more dialogues on Facebook.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT-1_Outline

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And I reply something along the lines of: it couldn't be because the Christmas stamps are already so well known that they require no further marketing, while the ones in the brochure are lesser known and need the marketing?  Couldn't be that, has to be a left-wing conspiracy to kill Christianity.

 

We'll have more conversations there as long as you continue to make deceitful posts .

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