Cain's Stimulating '9-9-9' Tax Reform

If the "problem" is tha the top 1% of "taxpayers" don't have enough money, already, then Cain has the solution.
b50m must think that he has too much money, because he is anxious to allow Cain's plan to take a lot more than he is paying in taxes now. Or, he could just be an idiot.

Why don't you try reading the article instead of just the title?

I read the article. It is appears that you, however, either didn't read it or didn't understand it. What I do understand is that, if you support Cain's plan then you either don't think that you pay enough taxes or that you don't understand the plan.

The federal gasoline tax will continue with its revenue dedicated to highway and mass transit infrastructure improvement.  Which, I believe is a good idea.

 

Of course, a major benefit from such a simplified tax system is the need for many less tax experts, lawyers and IRS agents.

 

The number of K St lobbyists will drop.  GE will be able to dismiss many of the 1,000 personnel dedicated to ensuring they pay no corporate taxes.  Perhaps, the planet will heal and the rise of the tides subsume.  And, the IQ of trolls will increase to room temperarure.

Since jimi obviously didn't go read the whole thing:

 

It used to be that the sole purpose of the tax code was to raise the necessary funds to run government. But in today's world the tax mandate has many more facets. These include income redistribution, encouraging favored industries, and discouraging unfavorable behavior.

To make matters worse there are millions and millions of taxpayers who are highly motivated to reduce their tax liabilities. And, as those taxpayers finagle and connive to find ways around the tax code, government responds by propagating new rules, new interpretations of the code, and new taxes in a never-ending chase. In the process, we create ever-more arcane tax codes that do a poor job of achieving any of their mandates.

I like Cain's idea of simplifying the federal tax code, but the notion of a federal 9 percent sales tax would not work, so long as states such as Alabama have heavy sales taxes.

 

State and local sales taxes, combined, in most Alabama counties range from 8 percent to 10 percent. Add the 9 percent federal sales tax, and most Alabamians will be paying from 17 to 20 percent sales tax on groceries. That is not fair to anyone, but especially to low-income people, who already spend a high percentage of their income on groceries.

 

That is a major flaw in this plan.

Why can people not understand that this plan has NOTHING to do with state taxes that you already are paying?  Zero, zilch, nada - state taxes have no impact on this!

While this plan has nothing to do with state taxes, there's no denying that it imposes a federal sales tax that people must pay. It doesn't affect state and local sales taxes. So that means people who go to the grocery stores -- or other retail stores -- will be paying the federal tax PLUS the already-in-place state and local taxes.

 

In most of Alabama, that means people will pay a TOTAL sales tax of 17 percent to 20 percent.

 

The Cain plan may have nothing to do with state taxes, but it results in people paying sales taxes of 17 to 20 percent in Alabama. If that's not accurate, explain.

But the plan exempts from any tax people below the poverty line. Using poverty tables, this exemption reduces each tax base by roughly $2.5 trillion.

This would help on that and this is still a plan in progress. Cain has said it's just an intermediate step. Not perfect but a good step in the right direction. While they may pay that additional 9% sales tax, they save from paying that 15.3% payroll tax.

Prices however should be decreased since the up front costs of production are diminished.  You should not see a net increase in prices due to taxation.  On the other hand some states do not tax food, so those places would see even better pricing.

Cain's plan allows the capture of taxation on "cash only" business which typically now sees no taxation (ie, drugs, prostitution, etc).  It is the closest thing to a Fair tax plan that has been proposed thus far.

If you could add a 9% capital gains taxation to this, I think it would be evn more fair.

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Exactly!  Thank you!

 

Cain is the one who's "muddying the water" saying one has nothing to do with the other.

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Something y'all like to conveniently leave out:  the poverty line is currently set at $22,050/year for a family of 4 - which is ridiculous, considering you can't feed a family of 4 on $10/hour!

 

So, for a couple with two children making $22,100/year, TOTAL sales tax of 17 to 20 percent is acceptable?  Puh-lease!

Look at your payroll check.  Is your net after taxes currently at 85% or more of your gross pay?

I read the whole thing. Unlike you, I understood it and didn't buy all of the BS. All you need to understand is that this another tax increase for the middle class

That is, net after fed income tax and FICA.

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Again, it is "in addition to" that's the problem because it doesn't replace other taxes.  

 

Cain says he'll get rid of the built-in taxes on goods and services, but he can't realistically accomplish that as president.  

 

So is he also going to do away with state and local taxes in Alabama and other states?  Since when does a president have that kind of power?

 

And if reforming the tax code were as easy as Cain tries to make it out to be, it would have already been done.  It will take a multi-step process to accomplish reform.  You can't just get elected president, implement the 999 plan, then repeal all state and local taxes, in addition to getting rid of the "built in" taxes on goods and services.  

 

And on top of all that, consider states like New Hampshire - a state which doesn't have a state sales tax - in this.  You think they'd go for this plan?  And what about senior citizens who are on fixed incomes?  You think the AARP is going to give their stamp of approval to this?

 

Once again, it gets the "FAIL" stamp.  

Cains goal is not to cut the amount of taxes collected, only who is paying the tax.  

 

The rich will pay less. Alot less.   Everyone else will pay more. 

Speaking of AARP:

 

Link

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent.

"You're talking a $2,700 tax increase for people with incomes between $10,000 and $20,000," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "That's huge."

Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis.

Among those in the middle, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 would see their taxes increase by an average of $4,400, the report said. Those making between $50,000 and $75,000 would see their annual tax bill go up by an average of $4,326.

"It's very, very regressive compared to the current system, and that's largely because we're exempting capital gains, and we're taxing your spending with the sales tax," Williams said. "People at the top end don't spend all their money and they get a lot of capital gains, so they are doing pretty well here."

Cain disputed the analysis Tuesday evening during GOP presidential debate in Las Vegas, where the other Republican candidates heaped on criticism. Cain has acknowledged that taxes would increase for some but says taxes would decrease for most....

Cain's rise in the polls has brought increased scrutiny, and his tax plan has taken hits from across the political spectrum. Some don't like shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor and middle class; others don't like the new national sales tax....

Cain has said his plan would initially raise as much money as the current tax system but do it more efficiently, leading to economic growth, which would produce higher tax revenues. The Tax Policy Center analysis agreed that the plan would initially raise about the same amount of money as current tax policy, about $2.55 trillion in 2013.

The Tax Policy Center compared taxes on U.S. households under current tax policy, with those imposed under the Cain plan. In using current tax policy, the analysis assumes that tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush — and extended through 2012 by Obama — would be extended.

The center did a separate analysis that assumed all the Bush-era tax cuts would expire at the end of 2012. Under that scenario, Cain's plan would still impose higher taxes on 77 percent of U.S. households, the report said.

The Tax Policy Center is a research group formed by two Washington think tanks: the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. Researchers at the center regularly testify before Congress on tax policy. The center's analyses during the 2008 presidential campaign were widely circulated....

Buttercup - again, it has nothing to do with state and local taxes, only federal.  I would be DELIGHTED to trade a 25% federal rate plus 7.65% fica for a 9% flat rate and 9% sales tax.

You still have to pay those taxes that it "has nothing to do with". By making this simpleminded statement about what you would be delighted to do you demonstrate that you do not understand the Cain plan.

Jimi - YOUR response shows that you have no understanding of the plan.  Again, it has NOTHING to do with state and local taxes, it is federal only.  If I pay less federal tax under the Cain plan, or ANY plan that is federal exclusive, I pay less overall. This is elementary math. Why is that hard for you to understand?

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So you have no issue with this being a real burden for the middle class and, especially, the poor.  Read my AARP link.

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You wont pay less.  Thats the point. 

Cain doesnt want you to pay less, unless you make more than $500,000 and up, then you will pay less.

 

Plus, 999 will require that you contribute 10% of your income to private firms for a retirement plan.  Thats a mandatory 10%.  So its really 9% + 10%, plus the sales tax.

And sales tax cant be financed, so buying a $200,000 house will now cost $18,000 more up front in down payment. That should put an end to the housing boom once and for all.

Gee - just read the plan again - don't see anything about a mandatory 10%.  Can you provide a link??

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I am the middle class and I can't find any way this would cost me more in federal taxes than I currently pay.

CAIN: “I believe in the Chilean model, where you give a personal retirement account option so we can move this aside from an entitlement society to an empowerment society. Chile had a broken system the way we did 30 years ago. A worker was paying 28 cents on a dollar into a broken system. They finally awakened and put in a system where the younger workers could — could have a choice — novel idea. Give them a choice with an account with their name on it and over time we would eliminate the current broken system that we have.” — GOP debate on Sept. 7 at the Reagan Library in California.

 

The program is not optional in Chile, and it cant be optional here.  If you dont believe me, then you have more faith in politicians than I. 

This is all much ado about nothing. It isn't going to happen. Cain's 15 minutes are about up. This is a campaign to gain the support of the gullible. You know who you are. If you like this plan, then I am talking about you.

My guess is no one here cares who you are talking about with you speciality one liners. I dont think you are near as **** smart as you think you are. Somewhere you have drank a little to much of that liberal kool-aid.

And we have another comment from the ignorant wing of the Conservatives. Gets all of his information from Faux News and makes radio talk pundits rich for deceiving him every day. They keep you uninformed and dumb because you are easier to control. But, I am sure that you will never see that fact. You would rather live in blissful ignorance. Have a nice day, sweetie.

 Common Jimbo one more sip won't kill ya.

Skippy

Skippy, the king of cut and paste strikes again. Have a nice day, sweetie.

 

Since his plan has a cut off at the poverty level, this is a flat out lie.

 

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent.

 

 

This is offset by the savings in SS taxes of about the same amount.

 

Among those in the middle, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 would see their taxes increase by an average of $4,400, the report said.

Some on this thread seem to think the 999 plan will exempt those at poverty level from the 9 percent income tax. There is no mention of that on the Cain web site, and he did not state that during the debate or during his interview with NBC prior to that.

 

Can someone post a link to that assertion?

Sorry guys and gals but libs like jimma will never get it, they never have and never will. 

Laffer mentioned it in the orignal post. It is also discussed here.

http://www.realclearpolitics.c...e_killer_111695.html

 

The 9 percent takes the place of the 7.65 percent FICA both for employee and employer.

After having his first iteration thoroughly trounced by everyone everywhere, Cain has announced that he now has a plan to "fix" his plan. 

He should simply go to the Fair Tax, with a limited transition phase.  At least, he's bringing the abominable situation of the present tax code to the fight. 

The "Fair Tax" is many things; however, fair is not one of them. It is another plot to raise taxes on the poor and middle class and dupe the gullible ( interventor, for example).