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There was a girl from Sheffield who had some pics or a video going around recently, I believe. For kids in high school and even grade school, there is a simple solution. If the parents are supplying the phones, get them basic phones that don't have cameras on them. Also, if someone's found with a phone during school hours, an in-school suspension or fine should do the trick.
Or disable MMS messaging. That is what I did. My little precious angel can neither send nor receive pictures. Not of puppies, naked cheerleaders, funny Halloween pumpkins, or anything else! But she can take pics all day long. If she wants to print them, she has to upload them to MY computer (hers has Linux) and I have to print them for her. BTW - I am the meanest mommy in the world.
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
Or disable MMS messaging. That is what I did. My little precious angel can neither send nor receive pictures. Not of puppies, naked cheerleaders, funny Halloween pumpkins, or anything else! But she can take pics all day long. If she wants to print them, she has to upload them to MY computer (hers has Linux) and I have to print them for her. BTW - I am the meanest mommy in the world.


Great Idea!! Is that something that I can do myself or does the provider have to set it up?
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
Or disable MMS messaging. That is what I did. My little precious angel can neither send nor receive pictures. Not of puppies, naked cheerleaders, funny Halloween pumpkins, or anything else! But she can take pics all day long. If she wants to print them, she has to upload them to MY computer (hers has Linux) and I have to print them for her. BTW - I am the meanest mommy in the world.


Good for you.
Ya'll are all sweet! Now if only my daughter understood that I don't do these things to make her miserable... oh, and if you have AT&T - get SmartLimits. I can lock her phone down between certain hours so no calls / no texts at 3:00 in the morning, except to numbers that I approve of (like mine and her dad's numbers). Great for when she's grounded from the phone, but I need her to have it so she can call and tell me when to pick her up from practice or whatever.
I hate to be the one to come out and disagree with the idea of this, but does no one else find it insane that a child could be charged with creating or sharing child pornography? When are we going to draw a line on who is a child and who is not? You can't vote, get married, move out on your own, quit school (most places) and many other things until you are 18 in most states (some of those you can do with a parents consent.) So, until you are 18, you are not adult enough to make these type of adult decisions. But, if your child makes a childish mistake like taking a picture of themselves and emailing it to someone (and I am by no means condoning this), they are 'treated' like and adult and charged with an adult crime. Either they can make adult decisions and should be treated as such or they can't.

Yes, they should be held accountable for what they do, but we, as a society, need to send a message to them that there is an age that is considered adulthood. We continue to tell them that, for this situation you are an adult and for that situation you are a child. What kind of sense does that make and what kind of signal does it send?

Michael
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
Ya'll are all sweet! Now if only my daughter understood that I don't do these things to make her miserable... oh, and if you have AT&T - get SmartLimits. I can lock her phone down between certain hours so no calls / no texts at 3:00 in the morning, except to numbers that I approve of (like mine and her dad's numbers). Great for when she's grounded from the phone, but I need her to have it so she can call and tell me when to pick her up from practice or whatever.


Verizon has something similar to this SmartLimits called usage controls, and you can manage it online from their website, as long as you've set up access to your account on their site. You can also block MMS messages, the dreaded premium SMS messages (Jamster @ $9.99 a month, anyone?), and restrict web content based on age-appropriateness (much like the vchip on your tv) from the site. Add in their "chaperone" service, and you can actually get alerts when your child's phone enters or leaves a particular place (school, home, etc), or even locate it in realtime. Of course, if your kid is half as smart as s/he thinks s/he is, there are ways around the chaperone service, but having a cellphone is a privilege, not a right. If any one of the controls gets circumvented and I find out about it, there's one less line I'll be paying for for a while... heh.

I think all the major providers have similar controls available, but I know about Verizon's through personal experience. Smiler
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Y'all are all talking about how great it is to block your kids phones in order to prevent this behavior...what about addressing the fact that they would do it in the first place??
Tell your kids why this is wrong and especially your daughters how damaging this could be to their reputation and self esteem. My kids are in grade school and we have already had several discussions about why pictures like that are wrong.

Shutting down the phone camera or ability to send/receive pics is comparable to treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. If your kids are intent upon taking the "cool sexy" pics like some of the kids at school are doing, they will just use a digital camera or a friend's phone. How naive are you, parents?
quote:
Originally posted by lynnblount:
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Y'all are all talking about how great it is to block your kids phones in order to prevent this behavior...what about addressing the fact that they would do it in the first place??
Tell your kids why this is wrong and especially your daughters how damaging this could be to their reputation and self esteem. My kids are in grade school and we have already had several discussions about why pictures like that are wrong.

Shutting down the phone camera or ability to send/receive pics is comparable to treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. If your kids are intent upon taking the "cool sexy" pics like some of the kids at school are doing, they will just use a digital camera or a friend's phone. How naive are you, parents?


I always used a friend's polaroid.
quote:
Shutting down the phone camera or ability to send/receive pics is comparable to treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. If your kids are intent upon taking the "cool sexy" pics like some of the kids at school are doing, they will just use a digital camera or a friend's phone. How naive are you, parents?

its not naive,its called drawing the line. Kids do not always do what mom and dad say to do. They are sending the message loud and clear WITHOUT a doubt they do not approve.Its showing their kids they DO mean business!
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
quote:
Shutting down the phone camera or ability to send/receive pics is comparable to treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. If your kids are intent upon taking the "cool sexy" pics like some of the kids at school are doing, they will just use a digital camera or a friend's phone. How naive are you, parents?


Sorry guys because I would be meaner than TSC -- if I told the kid to not do it and they did it again -- there would be no cell phone to have to be blocked...there would be no activities to go be a part of -- my child would be grounded until they could accept that they can't do those things and stop...I agree with Lynn and Smurph both -- blocking the capability doesn't treat the problem, but you have to have control somehow so it is a two-edged sword...
its not naive,its called drawing the line. Kids do not always do what mom and dad say to do. They are sending the message loud and clear WITHOUT a doubt they do not approve.Its showing their kids they DO mean business!
Where do pedophiles and adult sex offenders come from? Hello? They used to be kids...kids who exposed themselves, copped a feel, were peeping toms and other things of that nature...along with the ones that used to torture the neighbor's cats...Be very aware of the behavior it can lead to more sinister things in adult life...I worked with them for several years and they would tell you what they are Sexual Predators...and there is no cure and rehab isn't always successful...
quote:
In my day of high school we did not have cell phones that can be used to publish nude photo's of the best looking girls in school...
We just had to settle on the real thing...

oh tc,,you MUST be dreaming,,afterall we ~know~ that could not possibly have ever happened,those goodlooking girls moms and dads had told them not to do those things,,so they would NEVER defy mom and dads words!
quote:
Originally posted by lynnblount:
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Y'all are all talking about how great it is to block your kids phones in order to prevent this behavior...what about addressing the fact that they would do it in the first place??
Tell your kids why this is wrong and especially your daughters how damaging this could be to their reputation and self esteem. My kids are in grade school and we have already had several discussions about why pictures like that are wrong.

Shutting down the phone camera or ability to send/receive pics is comparable to treating a symptom and ignoring the disease. If your kids are intent upon taking the "cool sexy" pics like some of the kids at school are doing, they will just use a digital camera or a friend's phone. How naive are you, parents?


That, my friend, is exactly what should be happening. I had previously mentioned the tools that I know of that are available with my service, but I failed to mention that they are just that: tools.

Take the chaperone service, for example. It helps a parent keep track of where a child's phone is, and this is an invaluable tool (and a sad reflection on today's society that it's even needed). If, God forbid, something happens and a child is forcibly removed from school, snatched on the way home, or just gets lost, this tool can help a parent be reunited with their child much more quickly than a parent who doesn't have this tool at their disposal. It is NOT intended as an electronic collar or tracking device to substitute for setting limits as a parent as to where a child is allowed to go. If you don't trust your child to follow your rules, this ain't gonna help.

Blocking MMS pictures and video might be a good idea if someone's deliberately harassing your child or otherwise sending THEM inappropriate content, but if you haven't raised your child to know what's appropriate and what isn't, don't be surprised when they step outside the limits - or the law, regardless of what electronic blocks you try to put in place.

We, as a society, are all-too-quick to abdicate parental responsibility, and being aided by services such as most cellular providers have available on makes it that much easier to be a lazy parent. I hear (SO many times) parents complaining that teachers don't teach any more. Well, unfortunately, a lot of parents don't PARENT these days, either. The finest surgical scalpel doesn't do an unskilled surgeon any good - and these electronic tools won't help an ineffective parent turn into SuperMom or SuperDad, either.
I understand what you are saying about "not treating the symptom", but I think TSC is doing a good job. We can teach our kids, talk with out kids, do all that we can. They may even have never been in any type of trouble (mine haven't) but you NEVER KNOW what temptation will come along and they may have a weak moment. I believe my children are well grounded and certaily know right from wrong but I will NEVER say "I've taught them well so I know for a surety that they will never do something like that." You know?
quote:
Originally posted by clementine:
I understand what you are saying about "not treating the symptom", but I think TSC is doing a good job. We can teach our kids, talk with out kids, do all that we can. They may even have never been in any type of trouble (mine haven't) but you NEVER KNOW what temptation will come along and they may have a weak moment. I believe my children are well grounded and certaily know right from wrong but I will NEVER say "I've taught them well so I know for a surety that they will never do something like that." You know?


Oh, absolutely, and I didn't mean it to sound like I was calling TSC (or anyone!) out for being a bad parent. I just wanted to clarify what I'd typed earlier, and to agree that there ARE many parents who will substitute tools such as this for parental responsibility.
quote:
Originally posted by mekirk2:
I hate to be the one to come out and disagree with the idea of this, but does no one else find it insane that a child could be charged with creating or sharing child pornography? When are we going to draw a line on who is a child and who is not? You can't vote, get married, move out on your own, quit school (most places) and many other things until you are 18 in most states (some of those you can do with a parents consent.) So, until you are 18, you are not adult enough to make these type of adult decisions. But, if your child makes a childish mistake like taking a picture of themselves and emailing it to someone (and I am by no means condoning this), they are 'treated' like and adult and charged with an adult crime. Either they can make adult decisions and should be treated as such or they can't.

Yes, they should be held accountable for what they do, but we, as a society, need to send a message to them that there is an age that is considered adulthood. We continue to tell them that, for this situation you are an adult and for that situation you are a child. What kind of sense does that make and what kind of signal does it send?

Michael
It sends the signal loud and clear that these things are not tolerated. There were fifth graders caught having sex in the bathroom at Rogers School not too long ago. What happens when 12 year old sending pics turns into 12 year olds getting raped? Apparently the incident at Greenhill was not rape, but really - two consenting fifth graders??
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
quote:
Originally posted by mekirk2:
I hate to be the one to come out and disagree with the idea of this, but does no one else find it insane that a child could be charged with creating or sharing child pornography? When are we going to draw a line on who is a child and who is not? You can't vote, get married, move out on your own, quit school (most places) and many other things until you are 18 in most states (some of those you can do with a parents consent.) So, until you are 18, you are not adult enough to make these type of adult decisions. But, if your child makes a childish mistake like taking a picture of themselves and emailing it to someone (and I am by no means condoning this), they are 'treated' like and adult and charged with an adult crime. Either they can make adult decisions and should be treated as such or they can't.

Yes, they should be held accountable for what they do, but we, as a society, need to send a message to them that there is an age that is considered adulthood. We continue to tell them that, for this situation you are an adult and for that situation you are a child. What kind of sense does that make and what kind of signal does it send?

Michael
It sends the signal loud and clear that these things are not tolerated. There were fifth graders caught having sex in the bathroom at Rogers School not too long ago. What happens when 12 year old sending pics turns into 12 year olds getting raped? Apparently the incident at Greenhill was not rape, but really - two consenting fifth graders??


So, by that logic, even if it was not rape, by the law (as applied to adults), both students in this incident engaged in sex with a minor (each other) and both students should be convicted of sex crimes and forced to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives....

See the problem with assigning adult laws and rules to children who do not have the mental capacity to understand the full consequences of their actions? Should there be consequences? YES! Should there be a difference between when happens (legally) to a thirteen year old that has consensual sex with another thirteen year old and a twenty-five year old that has consensual sex with a thirteen year old?? Most definately yes.

We should not continue to assign one age of majority to one act and another age to a different act. We need to send a consistent message to our children about what we expect from them and when.

Michael
I have a serious question.

Sex with minors, let's say under 18 years old, is a crime. It's statutory rape.

What if the "perpetrator" is within, say, 4 years of age of the "victim"? Is it, or should it be, the same?

We all acknowledge that older people should not use their experience to seduce children. A 30 year old man should not have sex with a 16 year old girl, for example.

But what about an 18 year old boy and his 17 year old girlfriend? Is there an exception?


DF
Good question Deep. Parents should make sure their teens (and tweens) know these things:

Alabama defines Statutory Rape as:

First-degree rape for someone age 16 or older to have sexual intercourse with someone under age 12.

Second-degree rape for someone age 16 or older to have sexual intercourse with someone between age 12 and 16, when the perpetrator is at least two years older than the minor.

Full text is in the Code of Alabama, Section § 13A-6-61 and § 13A-6-62.
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
Or disable MMS messaging. That is what I did. My little precious angel can neither send nor receive pictures. Not of puppies, naked cheerleaders, funny Halloween pumpkins, or anything else! But she can take pics all day long. If she wants to print them, she has to upload them to MY computer (hers has Linux) and I have to print them for her. BTW - I am the meanest mommy in the world.



Good for you, TSC!!! Kids need to have a slightly shorter leash than has been given to them since "Cell Phone" days started. Thank God some Mom's have really good sense!!! Smiler Yay YOU!!!
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
The law states that minors may have sex with one another. So, your logic is flawed.

The law also states that NO PERSON regardless of age may rape or murder. Nor may any person, regardless of age create, possess, or transmit child porn.


No, the law in Alabama may state that (and I am not sure exactly what the AL law is due to the fact that I have never had the need to worry about it), but that is not the case in every state. Some states have different laws regarding minors having sex, including an age gap law that allows it between children that are within a certain age of one another. See Link for more info on the age rules for sexual activity between minors.

Also, most crimes have different applications to children and adults. Murder is handled differently if a minor is charged as a minor than if that minor had been charged as an adult. If a child is charged as a minor, there is a major difference in the way that the case is tried and what the sentence is if they are found guilty. The reason for this is that many states acknowledge that there is a difference in how the laws should be applied to an adult as compared to how they are applied to children.

Child porn laws are to protect children from being exploited by adults for sexual gratification. To apply that law and the consequences of it to a child who takes a picture of him or herself seems to be a stretch to the reasoning behind the law.

Michael

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