Christian Liars

Daddy Joe,
I do not set myself up as a lofty intellectual, but I do propose that all of us humans use our free minds to gauge reality.  Six Day Creation, Noah's Flood, Redemption from Original Sin are just a few of the reasons that a thinking mind must discard, regardless of how long it takes to arrive there.
If you remember the Smothers Brothers, Tommy was the "idiot".  In reality, Tommy was the slower of the tow, by his own admission, but he said he always came to the right conclusion eventually.  His intellect is perfectly acceptable.
Those who use the tortured, fractured, and dishonest illogic to defend the Bible against better knowledge are not slow, they're just crooked and not to be trusted.  Not to be trusted with intellectual capital and certainly not to be trusted with the education of innocent, malleable children.

We do not forgive, we do not forget.  Expect us.

DF

Crusty, arguing with Bill is like wresting with a pig.

Just so you know.  His opinion is not worth arguing.

DF

It's my duty to ridicule the ridiculous.  Bill and his ilk are among the most ridiculous. 

You have a problem with hogs?

Here is a YouTube video of a pastor confronting the topic of Evolution and the different types.  While there are many YouTube videos ranging from pro-evolution to anti-evolution each video or person's perspective (opinion) is based in faith, their faith.  I find this pastor's video very entertaining and informative.  I, for one, would like some of our "expert" atheist in here to answer some of the objections and questions this Creationist has and brings up in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

How about the answer to reproduction itself?  I mean if Evolution is exact and the way that life became and this was all an unintelligent process then how does male/female reproduction fit into the design of life?  Which came first the chicken or the egg or the creature or the egg?  Which came first the person or the embryo?  If you are going to believe in Evolution and especially if you are so 100% sure it's fact and unquestionable then surely you have these answers.  What I see is the digging up of bones and making great assumptions that one leads ultimately to another without any direct evidence or transitions.  Then when the question is posed why aren't those transitions happening today before our eyes since the base species or elements are there and the supposed destination elements or species are here why are not the transitory incremental living beings there to examine and point to?  Why did this process just happen once and stop?   So many questions yet the answers are to expect us to take what is given as answers on faith based upon assumptions.  

Bill has presented what he believes and why he believes it yet it is soundly rejected.  Why though is he not given the same consideration as those who quickly dismiss his beliefs expect to be given for their own beliefs and assumptions?

Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.

Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.

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What atheist is trying to get you to "believe in" or "worship" satan?  What part of "there is no god, there is no satan" do you not get? Why would an atheist "worship" a mythical satan and not a mythical god?? 

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Oh, good grief! Even a 6 year old would know that if an Atheist doesn't believe in God, they wouldn't believe in Satan either. They won't be united with anyone cause they don't worship anyone.

Sheeish!!!

gb,

I have kept up with "Dr" Hovind lo these many years.  He is  not only a transparent charlatan, but he's been kept in Maximum Security in Federal prison because he's obviously a head case.
Almost every thing out of his filthy mouth is a lie. 
GB, when one must lie to support a premise, the premise was never true.  Hovind's premise of a Young Earth Creationist model, and the literal reading of the Bible are obviously untrue. 
I cannot believe that you post Hovind as a defense to any intellectual position. The man is a proven liar, not only in the issue of his taxes, but on every point of science.
If you are this desperate to find reasons to believe your preconceived notions, then I suggest you take a step back, put all a priori notions aside, and investigate reality.
Hovind defends a 6000-year old Earth.  Not because he believes it, but because he was taking advantage of ignorant imbeciles who would happily pay him to lie to them.
I have better hopes for you.  Please work with me on this.  You're better than Kent Hovind.  You're way better than his artard son Eric who has kept up the family fraud.

Let me know if I can help.

DF

One never knows what an atheist mind will dream up to believe.  After all, they buy into old Charley Darwin's fantasy of "life created from non-life" -- and alligators which become horses -- and monkeys which become men.  Of course, in that last one old Charley may have been working on his own genealogy chart.

Hey, if atheist can believe the likes of Darwin and Dawkins -- why not sell them that beautiful bridge in Brooklyn?   So, no, it is not to far a stretch to believe that atheist could not believe in God -- but, believe other lies.  They have already proven their gullibility.  Just a thought!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill's beliefs aren't based on anything factual.  It is quite easy to reject them when there is clear evidence to the contrary.

As to your video, I watched the first few minutes - and couldn't take his stupid jokes any more.  So I skipped ahead.  Where I landed he was "proving" that the Colorado River hadn't taken thousands or millions of years to carve the Grand Canyon but it had been done in a couple of days or weeks, and was done so as a result of the Great Flood.  His original premise begins, if you dammed the Colorado River, it would create a lake that would cover five states.  This premise is inherently false as the Colorado River is ****ed in a number of spots, the main one being Hoover Dam.  The lake there doesn't cover five states.  With his basic premise blown literally out of the water, the rest of his reasoning collapses.

So I backed up a little and he was talking about homologies.  First he completely misrepresented what science says about homologies, then went into an apples and oranges comparison between homologies and lug nuts on cars. 

This is typical of fundamentalist "science".  First they misrepresent what the science says, then they go about "proving" it is wrong through irrelevant and easily refutable "logical" arguments.  They start with false premises, then follow a convoluted "logical" path that leads back to their ridiculous idea that the Bible should be taken literally.  God laughs at these people, and so do I. 

For real Christians, who have an actual relationship with God, that the universe began billions of years ago, and that life evolves, is no problem.  These hucksters are bibliolatrists.

Charley Darwin's fantasy of "life created from non-life" -- and alligators which become horses

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That may be the biggest lie you ever told. Sell atheists a bridge? LOL, not bloody likely. YOU can't sell atheists your mythical god. OUR gullibility? You believe a god that was always here, came from no where apparently, played in the dirt and created humans, then you have the face to call atheists gullible?  Anyone that believes that claptrap is not only gullible but nuts to boot.

Hi Crusty,

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.  God tells us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- and, then a few days later, we read that God said, "Let us make man in our image -- and He created them, man and woman, in His own image."

Now, what I believe you are saying is that a real Christian, one who truly has a saving relationship with God -- will tell God that He is lying in Genesis, that is not how He created the heavens and the earth.  And, a good Christian will tell God that, unless He aligns Himself with old Charley Darwin -- He is history.   Is that about right?  Crusty, is that YOUR view of God and His Creation?

If that is what you truly believe -- GOOD LUCK!  Bring lots of sun tan lotion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Lie)

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So tell us, which of the other commandments do you break too?? Inquiring minds want to know.

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As we have discussed many times Bill, I know that the Bible is not written by God.  It was written by men.  I'll accept the idea that the writers were inspired by God, but that isn't the same.  I know for a fact that the original text of the Bible no longer exists, and that at best we have copies of copies that have had errors introduced.  I know that the Bible was compiled by men, not God, and that there are many "Holy" texts that have been omitted. There are contradictory passages that only convoluted and fallacious logic can resolve.  A text written by a perfect being wouldn't be open to interpretation, everything would be obvious, crystal clear to all.

I know for a fact that God is not speaking in Genesis, as Genesis was written - at least the last time I studied it - by what is believed to be at least several different writers.  So I am not calling God a liar.

I know that the universe was created billions of years ago, and that evolution is fact.  I know that this doesn't contradict the Bible, unless you are a bibliolatrist and require the Bible to be taken literally for your belief system to hold up.  The Scholastics solved this theological problem centuries ago.

I have tried to refrain from it, but I am calling YOU a liar.  You are a Liar for Jesus, a person who has to lie for his ridiculous - non-Christian - belief system to hold up.  You pretend to be a Christian, but you have no relationship with God or Jesus, at best you are a Pharisee, but obviously a bibliolatrist.  I believe there are passages about what happens to the souls of those who worship idols instead of God.  Do you remember those? 

I am sorry for you that you don't understand the teachings of Jesus well enough to know that you can't fool God and try to make up for all your prior debauchery by joining the fundamentalist cult of Bible worshipers.  You hope to be the prodigal son, but you even miss the point of that parable. 

Please contact a qualified deprogrammer asap.

Mr. Hovind's law problems are centered around his opposition and refusal to pay Income Taxes.  As to tagging him as a liar or inferring that anything related to taxes also applies to his doctrines is a stretch.    My interest in his Video, which by the way is the first I had heard of him, was related to some of the questions he came up with.  Some points regarding some questions that Evolutionist should be able to answer.  All I've seen you address is his conviction regarding tax evasion which is a stand he, wrongly takes, against the Government and he paid a price for it.  That still does not negate some of the accusations he makes regarding Evolution or the Big Bang.  His questions regarding those subjects are still valid and although his video is obviously biased and one-sided I see no solid refuting of his points, regarding reasons to disbelieve Evolution or the Big Bang.  Those were the two issues I was listening to him cover.  As for the young earth or his belief in Creation timing that is yet another issue that, at this time, deflects attention away from "The Big Bang" or Evolution as the origins.  I still see no plausible explanations of how life comes from non-life, how complex intelligence comes from a singular, unintelligent and undirected process that has never been replicated or can be but remains in the realm of speculation, ideas, hypothesis and theory.  How does one get from a singularity leading to all living species yet fails to address reproduction as a method for populating each species.  There are many questions that remain unaddressed and unanswered.  Mr. Hovind brings up only a few but again I'm referencing his points regarding "The Big Bang" as origin of the Universe and Evolution as the vehicle of all life species.  

If the Wikipedia page picturing various skulls and such is sufficient to convince you or others that there is an interconnecting pattern and you believe these are incremental evidence of evolution from one species to another that is reflecting upon what you consider sufficient, in order to satisfy your minds.  AS for me I still contend it is very lacking, insufficient, and highly speculative.  

One distinct difference between many Christian's statements and many of those who advocate Evolution is I do not personally see the Christian attacking the person who chooses to believe in Evolution and base that upon their intelligence or mental capacities but rather they present reasons that they remain opposed to the argument and that specific theory itself.  I don't attempt to justify my position by advocating that anyone who believes differently is deficient in mental faculties or mental capabilities.  Those type statements, with regards to those who chose to believe in Creation, reflects much more a judgmental, biased, predisposition rather than actual reasoning and material to support and reinforce their chosen position of belief and is more a reliance upon weakness than in strength.  In other words since the other person's theory or belief cannot be disproven with ample evidence and sufficient undeniable proof then an alternative approach is chosen to try and diminish the argument by attacking and demeaning the advocates of the position you disagree with.

Again I state that my opposition to Evolution, as the vehicle of all life, is not as much based in my religion.  My belief in Creationism, as in God created (was the intelligence behind the creative process whatever methods and ways that encompasses) is of course related to Religion and my belief in God.  I see no inconsistency in acceptance of God as Creator and the inability to adequately conceive and understand the exact process by which the Universe and all Creation, including life, became and is maintained. I don't propose to advocate the method by which God chose to establish the Universe nor do I have to understand His method and process of the development of Life and the various species.   

Hi Crusty,

So, the god you worship is not big enough to inspire men to write exactly what HE WANTED written?  And the god you worship is not big enough to protect what He has inspired men to write?   Gee, my Friend, your god is a pretty small god.

On the other hand, my God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent (all places present).  My God is preexisting -- no beginning and no ending -- from eternity to eternity.  My God is the Almighty God.

Tell us about your god.   What do you know about him?  And, when and where do you worship him?   Do you pray to your god?  Has he ever answered a prayer for you?

If you answer no to these question -- we must suspect that you are worshiping the wrong god or gods.l

By the way, Moses wrote Genesis, along with the other four books of Torah - Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). 

The Torah (Written Law): An Overview

Jewish Virtual Library

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...The_Written_Law.html

The Torah, or Jewish Written Law, consists of the five books of the Hebrew Bible - known more commonly to non-Jews as the "Old Testament" - that were given by G-d to Moses on Mount Sinai and include within them all of the biblical laws of Judaism. The Torah is also known as the Chumash, Pentateuch, or Five Books of Moses.

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2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

But, hey, my Friend -- if you want to tell God He is wrong, that He did not write the Bible -- that it is only a book thrown together from the scribblings of itinerant sheep herders -- that is your choice. 

But, my Friend, as Joshua told the Israelites, and as we Christians are telling you non-believers today,

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD"  (Joshua 24:15).

But, let me leave you with one last thought.   Charley Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and none of the rest of your worldly god can give you eternal life.  To gain eternal life -- one MUST turn to God, through Jesus Christ (John 14:6) -- none other.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Nice try on twisting what I said.  I'm not telling God anything, I'm telling you.  But using your tactic, your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies and scientific inaccuracies.  I would never assign to God a text so flawed, so obviously written by man, and which has blatant scientific inaccuracies.  You idolize the Bible, not God.  I am sorry for you.  Please get a de-programmer, I'm concerned for your well being, as you may be drinking the Kool-Aid next.

Here you have it on the authority of Crusty, who personally affirms his own Christian faith -- that the Bible is a worthless book, just a bunch of flawed text. 

Crusty tells us, "I would never assign to God a text so flawed."

Yet, God tells us, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Crusty tells us, "The Bible is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

Yet, Jesus tells us, in John 10:35 ". . . and the Scripture cannot be broken."

Crusty tells us, "Your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

But, the apostle John tells us, in John 20:30-31, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

Now, my Christian Friends, we have a dilemma.  Whom shall we believe -- God, the Bible, Jesus Christ, the apostle John?  Or shall we believe our Christian Friend, Crusty, who, by the way, refuses to go to church?

Personally, I believe I will follow what Joshua tells the Israelites, and us, in Joshua 24:15, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Crusty, my Friend, thank you for clearing up this issue of the Bible and God for us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Doesn't seem to have done you any good to read that book for all the years you claim you've read it, go to all the "bible studies" you claim to go to, or go to church as you claim you do. How do we know YOU go to church?  And, after all your claims you still can't explain all the contradictions in that book you say is your god's "word'.

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Bless your pea-picking little heart, Bill.  I never said the Bible was worthless, but it wasn't written by God, and it isn't to be taken literally.  Your worship of the Bible is known as bibliolatry.  What does the Bible say about those that worship idols? 

You ask who should we believe.  I say you can believe all, the Bible, Jesus, and God.  Most Christians do.  But most Christians understand that the story in Genesis - written by multiple authors, by the way, Bill - is an allegory.  To use your strategy, who are we to believe, fundamentalist wacko Bill, or St. Thomas Aquinas?  Who is the better authority?

I know it really galls you that I don't go to church.  The only time Jesus went to church as an adult was to do some whoop-ass on the money changers.  I don't need bureaucracy to have a relationship with God, and I don't need to show off in front of the self-righteous Bill Grays in the world to have a relationship with God. 

Finally, what does John have to do with this discussion?  You've dropped back into your street corner evangelist mode again, Bill.  Please have Dory give you your meds.

You are right.  How can you KNOW if Bill Gray is a Christian or not?  I have one suggestion of how you can KNOW for sure.   You become a Christian believer -- and, then, when we meet in heaven one day -- YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE!   And, at the same time, you will have saved yourself.

Now, that is absolutely a WIN-WIN suggestion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi Crusty,

There was a time, before I was a Christian believer -- when I sat with a Christian Friend and his pastor for two hours -- trying to tell them that I did not have to go to church to be a Christian.

Sound familiar?

Of course, at that time I was NOT a Christian -- so, how would I know what a Christian should or should not do?

Yep, old Friend, a wee bit of deja vu -- isn't it?

But, keep on saying it -- and maybe one day you will really might believe it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi Jennifer, You are right. How can you KNOW if Bill Gray is a Christian or not? I have one suggestion of how you can KNOW for sure. You become a Christian believer -- and, then, when we meet in heaven one day -- YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE! And, at the same time, you will have saved yourself.

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Although I didn't mention it I know you say you're a christian. What I basically "said" was that we  had no proof you went to church, just your word, and we all know your word is no good. I have no intentions in ever being a "christian believer" again. Been there, done that, glad I'm out. I don't want to meet you anywhere, and there is nothing I need to be "saved" from.

Oh, and I know that this time you directed your silly "Don't wait for six strong men to take you to church" cartoon at crusty, and although you never answer the question I will ask you once more, why would you think a non-believer would have their funeral in a church? 

Hi Jennifer,

Isn't that what the captain of the Titanic said -- before. . . ?   Just a thought!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hmmmmmmmm, well reports may not agree with each other about what capt smith said, but none of the reports have him mentioning your name. Of course knowing you, you'll claim you were there and tried to tell them they were going to hit the iceberg. That is right after you held a revival meeting and converted everyone. You just get sillier and sillier, have you had a stroke?

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Last words of captain smith?:

Reports include "Be British Boys, Be British!", "Every Man for Himself!" or, after supposedly delivering a baby to a lifeboat, he refused to be brought aboard, saying "Good-Bye Boys, I'm going to follow the ship!"

gb, Kent Hovind is a Young Earth Creationist (or he claims to be), including a literal six-day Creation.

Only a fool would entertain him.  Every point of his pseudo science has been refuted to the satisfaction of any reasonable mind.

I invite you to recite one... one... point of his "science" that stands to reason.  Just one.  Please do it now.

The man is a fraud and made a living (his son continues in his vein) raping the muddled intellects of those afflicted with superstition and ignorance. 

However, I encourage you to keep Kent Hovind's legacy alive.  He is the best argument atheism has.  Anyone who believes his BS is not worth considering in any sort of honest discussion.

DF

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You're still not a Christian, just a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to convince the good people here of your lies. Most of us see you for the liar you are.

Semi, you're right.  If Bill was a Christian, they'd have been hunted to extinction 1500 years ago.

DF

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No, it doesn't sound familiar at all.  I have a relationship with God.  You have a relationship with the Bible.  It is such a sad relationship since something as basic and undeniable as a universe that is billions of years old can destroy it.  Truth can't hurt me, my faith, or my relationship with God. 

BY GEORGE, I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE AWAKEN THE WHOLE GANG!

AS IF THOSE ATHEISTS WEREN'T ENOUGH, NOW I GOTTA WORRY ABOUT OBAMA!!

When Bill has nothing constructive to say - which is almost always - he posts an insulting picture. 

Now, let's be fair.  I don't mind taking credit when credit is due -- but, I really do not want to steal Jennifer's thunder.  The photo of you in a red shirt comes from Jennifer, not me.   We do not want to cheat our Friend.  Let's give her full artistic credit.  She deserves it!

Bless y'all's heart!

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

No bill, the picture of the man in the red shirt does not "represent" crusty. Let me clear that up in case there is even one person who would, by any stretch of their imagination, think it was him. Crusty, if he intends to insult he's going to have go do a whole lot better than he's done so far. All he does now is date himself badly with references to old things only he thinks are funny.  BTW bill, here's the Lone Ranger and Tonto. And Tonto without the paint, the Lone Ranger without the mask, yum!

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You are a riot, Bill.  Thanks for proving my point.