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Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Make time for great justice.  Expect us.

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Hi all,

 

If, by some miracle, God took the words:  LIAR, STUPID, IGNORANT, and a few others which our atheist Friends depend upon so much to be able to communicate -- out of their vocabulary -- our atheist Friends would be tongue-tied, totally helpless to carry on a dialogue.   Poor things.  All we could do is to ask them, "Did the cat get your tongue?"

 

Bless your little old atheist hearts.

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

CatGotYourTongue-1

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Hi all,

 

If, by some miracle, God took the words:  LIAR, STUPID, IGNORANT, and a few others which our atheist Friends depend upon so much to be able to communicate -- out of their vocabulary -- our atheist Friends would be tongue-tied, totally helpless to carry on a dialogue.   Poor things.  All we could do is to ask them, "Did the cat get your tongue?"


----------------------------------------------


Without people like you there'd be no need for those words.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  

 

DF

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As an *Enlightened Man*, have you ever considered that the people for which the books of the Bible were written were not so *erudite* as you think you are? Did you ever consider that those books might have been written so that people not so *erudite* as you think you are could understand them?  

 

If this * Enlightenment* persists for another 2000 years, how primitive do you think your own writings will seem? 

I'm amazed that 'believers' want this country to be run on the Ten Commandmants. The first 4 are basically redundant. The only one that is criminal in all cases is about murder which the buybull itself ignores on countless occasions. The one about lying is only criminal when the lie is to the police or perjury in a court of law. Yet, this is the one most commonly ignored by the 'faithful' who will lie with the best of them to attain their 'ends'. They also lie by 'omission' when cherry picking the passages of the bible that will suit their ends. They also lie about this country being founded as a 'christain' nation and use cehrry picked letters from the founding fathers to 'prove' their points.

 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Such Hypocrisy and the utmost Arrogance is demonstrated in your post here.  You chide Christians and Believers for doing, in effect, just the same thing that you are doing only where Christians/Believers make their statements based upon their own reasons (Their Belief in God) you make your equally unprovable and faith based (all be it faith in a non-divine direction/source) yet because you have such a high opinion of yourself you set yourself up as infallible and beyond reproach (at least in your own mind).  

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.  Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

From my own perspective I will grant that Evolution, by it's own nature, is certainly a non-intelligent process for evidently it takes no thinking or intelligence to accept it but rather just blind allegiance and acceptance that life comes from an accidental arrangement of elements.  Never mind that none of it can be reproduced or that absolute proof can be provided that life comes from non-life and one species comes from other species we are just to accept it on someone's own word or accept their own bias and their own beliefs as our own and be prohibited from challenging it.  You have very well demonstrated the prejudiced opinions feelings toward people of any other opinion, other than evolution.  If someone doesn't believe lock step with you then they are either mentally deficient or they are lying.  Does your own arrogance know any bounds?  I present that your apparent arrogance in this area is only exceeded by your unrealistic haughty opinion of your own personal abilities.

 

At least there is benefit in your post though.  You are neither correct or unique in your bias and prejudice toward believers and Christians for there are many that came before you and they discovered that they were just as fallible and human as everyone else, in the end.  I hate to break it to you but your "superiority" and godlike infallibility is principally within your own mind and you only demonstrate the validity and wisdom of those who spoke and put their recordings down thousands of years before you were a thought in anyone's mind.

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (NLT)
{18} The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
{19} As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
{20} So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.
{21} Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.
{22} It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom.
{23} So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
{24} But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
{25} This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
{26} Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.
{27} Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.
{28} God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.
{29} As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
{30} God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.
{31} Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”

and

 

Romans 1:18-23 (HCSB)
{18} For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
{19} since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
{20} From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
{21} For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
{22} Claiming to be wise, they became fools
{23} and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

and finally

 

1 Corinthians 3:18-21 (ESV)
{18} Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
{19} For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
{20} and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
{21} So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours,

 

Your demonstration of Pride and Arrogance are nothing new for there have been those claiming the same thing, essentially, throughout history and God's word addresses those today as it did in those days only if people could see past their own biases and prejudice to yield to it's wisdom.  At least in your post did you not only present your opinion but you  sufficiently provided example as well that Pride still controls mortal man in thinking themselves to be something they are not.

 

 

 

 

I feel sorry for the ones that are still so mired down by superstition and lies. Many of them can't seem to see any value at all in the world without their make believe sky daddy. Most of them seem to think that if they did not have this lie to believe in their own self worth and existence would be moot. To me that is very very sad. What makes me sometimes angry is that those same people aren't happy just believing in this fairy tale for themselves. They insist we all live as if it were true. I have heard over and over that they don't care if I believe or not. However, I find that to be only lip service. If that were true then we would not see so many believers trying to enact laws that are based on their fanciful superstition.

 

When I read about the things that have been said and done to the 16 year old little girl in RI for standing up for the Constitution, I see that Christians know their belief is a weak stance (at best) otherwise why would they bully a child.

 

I too think that most of them know its not true yet they continue to perpetuated the lie. For money, to fit in, for power, and maybe for some, fear. Maybe that (fear) is why gbrk can't seem to grasp the evidence backing evolution. Who knows...

 

Hopefully the next generation will have evolved past this need to cling to lies and superstition. I meet so many young people these days that just laugh at it. We owe it to them, and those that will come after them, to pave the way for a brighter more reasoned future.

 

Out of the dark ages and into the light!!!!

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

 

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.

 

That sir is a lie. Maybe you don't know its a lie, so you should educate yourself before you say it again.

 

 Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

 

 Please present your SCIENTIFIC evidence to support Creationism or Intelligent Design. You are not allowed to use the bible because it is not a science book. I will be waiting. There have been several attempts at proving ID as science in the past, all have failed. Most recently the Dover, PA case before the Supreme Court. I found that this statement by Judge Jones sums you up pretty good when it comes to this discussion:.

 

“It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.”

 

.

 

 

 

 

I so much enjoy it when people speak with authority over something that is unknowable.

How did life start?  Who knows.  Apparently it did.

How was the universe created?  Who knows.  Again, apparently it was.

Beyond that, you can't KNOW anything...you can assume, believe, hope, want, dream or even pray.  But you can't know with absolute certainty.

Hi Mark,

 

Sorry, my Friend, but those questions have been answered for us -- very clearly.   All one has to do is to read Genesis to find all those answers.

 

Of course, there are those who will pooh-pooh this, denying that truth.   I suppose those same folks would deny that the Civil War did not really occur -- because they did not personally witness it.   Just like we can all visit history books to believe the Civil War did occur, we can also visit the Bible to know that God, Jesus Christ, and the Creation are real. 

 

You want to visit the Shiloh battlefield, take a short drive into Tennessee.  You want to visit the Christian Shiloh battlefield -- take a trip to the Holy Land.

 

My Friend, you hung with Deep too often.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Mark12A:

I so much enjoy it when people speak with authority over something that is unknowable.

How did life start?  Who knows.  Apparently it did.

How was the universe created?  Who knows.  Again, apparently it was.

Beyond that, you can't KNOW anything...you can assume, believe, hope, want, dream or even pray.  But you can't know with absolute certainty.

--------------------------

So correct. I've posted it often, I listen to all the theories, discard some immediately, put the others that sound promising on a "wait and see" where it goes list.

Sorry, Bill.  I'm not your friend.  Regardless of what the hymn says about "...take me as I am..." you have proven to be one of the most incorrigibly bigoted individuals I have ever had contact with.  Combine that with the loving, caring facade you put on you and, well, you're an indictment of modern christianity beyond any that I can imagine.

You are one of those about whom I refer...speaking with authority on an unknowable subject.  You read what has been translated from early writings and vomit it back at everyone within earshot as being the Single Truth.  It's okay if you believe it.  Just don't get excited when a lot of people don't go along with it.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

 

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.

 

That sir is a lie. Maybe you don't know its a lie, so you should educate yourself before you say it again.

 

And that statement is a subjective opinion not based or supported by facts either.  You and/or others state that Evolution has evidence to prove it and I am stating that those who adhere to and believe in Creation or Intelligent Design also claim evidence as well.  Evidence is only sufficient to those who consider it valid.  One person looks at one group of evidence in one way while another sees no connection of that evidence to the hypothesis that the evidence is supposed to support and verify.  Like it or not Evolution, as the source of life and how things got here IS a THEORY!  It's not dogmatic fact, it is opinion of many but just as many believe we got here at the design of some Intelligence or deity and they have just as convincing evidence, to them, in order to support the basis of their belief and opinion.  

 

 

 

 Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

 

 Please present your SCIENTIFIC evidence to support Creationism or Intelligent Design. You are not allowed to use the bible because it is not a science book. I will be waiting. There have been several attempts at proving ID as science in the past, all have failed. Most recently the Dover, PA case before the Supreme Court. I found that this statement by Judge Jones sums you up pretty good when it comes to this discussion:.

 

As I have said what is acceptable or sufficient evidence or one is subjective for another.  You state to leave the Bible out but the Bible is a FACTUAL part of History and historical record.  You do not have anything that counters it so it's just as valid for someone to use as it is any other source.  Just because you don't accept to believe it doesn't make it invalid so the Bible should be just as viable for use as anything else and the Bible is for many viable and acceptable as evidence.   

 

http://www.icr.org/article/sum...idence-for-creation/

http://www.answersingenesis.or...22/n1/creation-proof

http://www.creationevidence.org/

http://www.icr.org/evidence/

http://www.allaboutcreation.org/creation-evidence.htm

http://www.godandscience.org/a...getics/creation.html

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/creation.html

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm

 

“It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.


And just what is that "real purpose"?   Both are theories for people to ponder and accept or reject but only ONE side want's to totally control the debate, only ONE side wants to exclude the other and ONLY ONE SIDE belittles the other views advocates and goes as far as attempting to discredit them and remove them from any chance at employment.  Evolution does not want to allow freedom of choice they want to dictate what people have to believe and at all cost attack and impugn anyone of conflicting thought and belief.   Evolution, as a source for life is deficient of supporting evidence.  Evolution is void of actual incremental transitional occurrences to analyze and view.  Evolution, as a source of life requires that the person accept it on face value that you take bones, fossils or other evidence and make it conform to an opinion and desire of those who have a profound bias of seeing that it does conform to that desired outcome.  Evolution is void of any evidence of how a living thing can come from a non-living thing and it cannot be reproduced.  Evolution is simply VOID of FACT as the source of creation and life.  That is a fact.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 
Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  

 

DF

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As an *Enlightened Man*, have you ever considered that the people for which the books of the Bible were written were not so *erudite* as you think you are? Did you ever consider that those books might have been written so that people not so *erudite* as you think you are could understand them?  

 

If this * Enlightenment* persists for another 2000 years, how primitive do you think your own writings will seem? 

I can only hope, and trust, that my feeble scribblings, poignant as they are here and now, will be eclipsed by an even more concrete founding in reason, science, and humanistic morality.

 

Df

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

__________________________________________________________________________

We don't. But neither do we feel the need to prove to everyone how we have such "diverse knowledges", nor do we have to talk about how our "feeble scribblings" are so "poignant".

You see, the difference is our self-confidence is merely a fact of life. We don't feel the need to crow about it to everyone else. Our accomplishments, rather than being cause for PRIDE, are cause for GRATITUDE. Gratitude to the Lord who gave us all the tools we need to accomplish the things we do.

 

And it has been proven in scientific studies that GRATITUDE leads to a happier life. Self-aggrandizement, on the other hand, is a sign of UNDERconfidence. When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

Atheists like this DO worship their own intellect. They place their intellect at the top of the list of things that are important to them. They think a high IQ is what elevates them above "average" people. They think it makes them better than "average" people.

 

Christians with a high IQ know that that IQ is a gift from God, and rather than using it to make themselves feel better than others, they USE this gift from God to HELP others, as our Lord directs us to. So instead of having a chip on our shoulders, wondering why we are surrounded by "idiots", we have love and gratitude in our hearts, and wonder why we are surrounded by people less fortunate than ourselves, and we put that IQ into action to make their lives better.

 

It gives us SO much more peace and happiness than the one who keeps crying, "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

 

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

O, worship is the failure of the enslaved.  I worship my self no more or less than anyone or anything else, i.e. not at all.

 

Break out of your superstitious shell.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

O, worship is the failure of the enslaved.  I worship my self no more or less than anyone or anything else, i.e. not at all.

 

Break out of your superstitious shell.

 

DF

__________________________________________________________________________

As I said,  Self-aggrandizement, on the other hand, is a sign of UNDERconfidence. When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

And denial is just another part of the "syndrome".

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

DA, how difficult is it to believe that we are humans who have reason to enjoy our existence?  Or consciousness, or joys and even pains?  Why do some people need gods for this?
We were the ones who invented the gods.  We endowed them with wisdom and morality.  We invested them with powers, now known to be natural.

 

Life is a gift from the Universe.  It's rare and to be enjoyed and explored in human terms.  The best of such terms are those or reason and an entirely human invention, science.  The worst of those terms is an ancient superstition that sufficed to answer unanswerable questions in our primitive ignorance.

 

DA, we have won.  Most of the answers to the ancient questions have been found.  We now know why we get sick, why we die, how we are born, why the plant bloom in the Spring, why the tides roll in and out.  As a result of this knowledge, we can surmise that the remaining mysteries are natural in their explanations.  The origin of the universe and the life within it do not require a god, indeed god gets in the way.

 

We win.  They fail.  There are many yet to be convinced, and as long as there are uncritical minds there will always be some convincing to do, but the intelligent, critical element of our constituency has progressed beyond Bronze Age superstition.  We revel in the knowledge we have been able to accumulate in the Post Religious Age, and we glory in the knowledge yet to be won.  We even respect our remaining ignorances, of which there are many, but we do not give in to the corrosive idea that god is responsible for them.

 

It's a slow process, and we will not live to see all the fruits of our efforts, but we must do our best in the here and now, for the future betterment of not only our species but for the planet for which we have become responsible.  The denial and rejection of religious superstition is inevitable, unless that evil notion leads to our demise through intolerant warfare.  Especially if the Parties of God choose to use WMDs. 

 

How better, one might ask, to bring about the prophesied End of Days?

 

DF

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

------------------------

Could be worse, They could all think they're "hot stuff" like a lot of them do. So smug, so, well what's that word? Oh yes-"special". Remember "church lady"? I think we make a lot of them feel inferior. We don't chase happiness, we have it already. They aren't happy, they can't be happy, so what they have to do to even feel half way "special" is to tear others down. They remind me of something I read a long time ago, no idea if it's even true, but the man said there was no need to put a top on a basket full of crabs. The reason? He said because if one of the crabs started climbing up the basket to escape, another one would reach up and pull them back down.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Such Hypocrisy and the utmost Arrogance is demonstrated in your post here.  You chide Christians and Believers for doing, in effect, just the same thing that you are doing only where Christians/Believers make their statements based upon their own reasons (Their Belief in God) you make your equally unprovable and faith based (all be it faith in a non-divine direction/source) yet because you have such a high opinion of yourself you set yourself up as infallible and beyond reproach (at least in your own mind).  

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.  Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

From my own perspective I will grant that Evolution, by it's own nature, is certainly a non-intelligent process for evidently it takes no thinking or intelligence to accept it but rather just blind allegiance and acceptance that life comes from an accidental arrangement of elements.  Never mind that none of it can be reproduced or that absolute proof can be provided that life comes from non-life and one species comes from other species we are just to accept it on someone's own word or accept their own bias and their own beliefs as our own and be prohibited from challenging it.  You have very well demonstrated the prejudiced opinions feelings toward people of any other opinion, other than evolution.  If someone doesn't believe lock step with you then they are either mentally deficient or they are lying.  Does your own arrogance know any bounds?  I present that your apparent arrogance in this area is only exceeded by your unrealistic haughty opinion of your own personal abilities.

 

At least there is benefit in your post though.  You are neither correct or unique in your bias and prejudice toward believers and Christians for there are many that came before you and they discovered that they were just as fallible and human as everyone else, in the end.  I hate to break it to you but your "superiority" and godlike infallibility is principally within your own mind and you only demonstrate the validity and wisdom of those who spoke and put their recordings down thousands of years before you were a thought in anyone's mind.

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (NLT)
{18} The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
{19} As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
{20} So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.
{21} Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.
{22} It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom.
{23} So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
{24} But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
{25} This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
{26} Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.
{27} Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.
{28} God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.
{29} As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
{30} God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.
{31} Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”

and

 

Romans 1:18-23 (HCSB)
{18} For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
{19} since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
{20} From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
{21} For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
{22} Claiming to be wise, they became fools
{23} and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

and finally

 

1 Corinthians 3:18-21 (ESV)
{18} Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
{19} For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
{20} and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
{21} So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours,

 

Your demonstration of Pride and Arrogance are nothing new for there have been those claiming the same thing, essentially, throughout history and God's word addresses those today as it did in those days only if people could see past their own biases and prejudice to yield to it's wisdom.  At least in your post did you not only present your opinion but you  sufficiently provided example as well that Pride still controls mortal man in thinking themselves to be something they are not.

 

 

 

 

Man! I have just got to say a BIG Amen! Great post!

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I feel sorry for the ones that are still so mired down by superstition and lies. Many of them can't seem to see any value at all in the world without their make believe sky daddy. Most of them seem to think that if they did not have this lie to believe in their own self worth and existence would be moot. To me that is very very sad. What makes me sometimes angry is that those same people aren't happy just believing in this fairy tale for themselves. They insist we all live as if it were true. I have heard over and over that they don't care if I believe or not. However, I find that to be only lip service. If that were true then we would not see so many believers trying to enact laws that are based on their fanciful superstition.

 

When I read about the things that have been said and done to the 16 year old little girl in RI for standing up for the Constitution, I see that Christians know their belief is a weak stance (at best) otherwise why would they bully a child.

 

I too think that most of them know its not true yet they continue to perpetuated the lie. For money, to fit in, for power, and maybe for some, fear. Maybe that (fear) is why gbrk can't seem to grasp the evidence backing evolution. Who knows...

 

Hopefully the next generation will have evolved past this need to cling to lies and superstition. I meet so many young people these days that just laugh at it. We owe it to them, and those that will come after them, to pave the way for a brighter more reasoned future.

 

Out of the dark ages and into the light!!!!

What is bugging you is not Christians but your struggle with good and evil. Darkness is attempting to retain control over your soul and God is continuing to offer you a way to the light.You will choose one over the other just as we all will.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

DF


_____________________

Be careful what you post. I caught Bill in a lie, he wanted proof, so I gave it to him in a topic of it's own. No way for him to get out of it as there it was, in black & white. Guess what?.......my topic was deleted the same day, & I received a warning. Expect to see me banned any day now.

Originally Posted by O No!:
But neither do we feel the need to prove to everyone how we have such "diverse knowledges", nor do we have to talk about how our "feeble scribblings" are so "poignant".

You see, the difference is our self-confidence is merely a fact of life. We don't feel the need to crow about it to everyone else. Our accomplishments, rather than being cause for PRIDE, are cause for GRATITUDE.  

When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

Atheists like this DO worship their own intellect. They place their intellect at the top of the list of things that are important to them. They think a high IQ is what elevates them above "average" people. They think it makes them better than "average" people.

 

Christians with a high IQ know that that IQ is a gift from God, and rather than using it to make themselves feel better than others, they USE this gift from God to HELP others, as our Lord directs us to. So instead of having a chip on our shoulders, wondering why we are surrounded by "idiots", we have love and gratitude in our hearts, and wonder why we are surrounded by people less fortunate than ourselves, and we put that IQ into action to make their lives better.

 

It gives us SO much more peace and happiness than the one who keeps crying, "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

 

______________________________

Surrely you don't mean to include all Christians in what you said? I can mention one on this forum that crows about himself constantly. He has a huge amount of pride & never fails to let us know that. I have been saying for months that when this person tries to convince us how wonderful he is, it's no more than a sign of his low self esteem. He's constantly shouting "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

Atheist are good people, just as some Christians are. I've never had any of them to act as though they are better than me. I have received kindness & friendship from them as I have you. You've never beaten me over the head with your belief's just as not one of them has tried to convert me to Atheism. There's good & bad people on each side.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

DF


_____________________

Be careful what you post. I caught Bill in a lie, he wanted proof, so I gave it to him in a topic of it's own. No way for him to get out of it as there it was, in black & white. Guess what?.......my topic was deleted the same day, & I received a warning. Expect to see me banned any day now.

semi, if that starts happening too many people will drop out

and interest will fall off.Thats not good for business.

 

The only people here will be Bill, APackk and nobetetds...Fold the tents

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 
semi, if that starts happening too many people will drop out

and interest will fall off.Thats not good for business. 

The only people here will be Bill, APackk and nobetetds...Fold the tents

______________________

It's already happening. There's several that Bill has run off or got banned in the last few months.

He wants those here that worship him, not disagree with him or give him proof of the lies we catch him in.

why is christianity a major target for nonbelievers and athiests. why they always saying bad stuff about christians but rarely see them mention buddhism, islam, hinduism and all the others.

 

Matthew 24:8-14 "... you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake... And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

quote:  Originally Posted by hranbama:

Why is Christianity a major target for nonbelievers and athiests.  Why they always saying bad stuff about Christians but rarely see them mention Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and all the others.

 

Matthew 24:8-14 "... you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake... And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."


Hi Hran,

 

First, welcome to the Religion Forum.  I pray you have your "Full Armor of God" (Ephesians 6:10-20) on when venturing through the doorway of the Religion Forum.   And, I pray we will hear from you often.

 

The answer to your question is simple.  People attack that which they fear.  Have you ever seen a rodent trapped?  The normal rodent will not attack anyone.  The same with a coyote.  However, trap either in a corner -- and it will attack.

 

Thus, because even though the non-believers knows, somewhere down deep (Romans 2:12-16) that God and Christianity are true -- all the more they will fight against it.  Why?  Because they are afraid of losing what they can see, feel, and touch -- their existing world and society.   Many folks have a "tactile religion" -- if they can touch it and feel it -- they believe it.

 

Yet, if they are asked to walk by FAITH, they tremble in fear.  And, that fear turns into attacks against that which they fear:  God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and Christians who share their faith.

 

Just as God is patient with us -- we must be patient with those who would attack our Christian faith.  Even when they throw stones at us.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Faith - Luke 1-37

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  • Faith - Luke 1-37
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Hran, 

People attack that which they fear.  Have you ever seen a rodent trapped?  The normal rodent will not attack anyone.  The same with a coyote.  However, trap either in a corner -- and it will attack.

 

Thus, because even though the non-believers knows, somewhere down deep (Romans 2:12-16) that God and Christianity are true -- all the more they will fight against it.  Why?  Because they are afraid of losing what they can see, feel, and touch -- their existing world and society.    

Yet, if they are asked to walk by FAITH, they tremble in fear.  And, that fear turns into attacks against that which they fear:  God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and Christians who share their faith. Just as God is patient with us -- we must be patient with those who would attack our Christian faith.  Even when they throw stones at us.

Bill

___________________________________

Bill, why haven't you ever told us you have a degree in Psychology? It amazes me how you can claim to know what you know nothing about.  You'll lie when backed into a corner but swear you're a Christian. You're nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing. 

Originally Posted by hranbama:

why is christianity a major target for nonbelievers and athiests. why they always saying bad stuff about christians but rarely see them mention buddhism, islam, hinduism and all the others.

 

Matthew 24:8-14 "... you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake... And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

___________________________

Why? Have you seen the attacks from Bill Gray against anyone that doesn't agree with him? Have you seen the way he makes fun of others & calls us names? Have you seen how he's always saying bad stuff about people on here that doesn't fall at his feet & worship him? All this from a man that wears the Christian hat. I haven't seen any buddhism, islam, hinduism & any others posting on here so that's probably why they aren't mentioned.

Your scripture mentions how many will betray & hate one another. How false prophets will rise up & deceive many. Those 2 sentences have described Bill Gray to a T. He hates all of us, tries daily to deceive us, but he is no more than one of those false prophets.

If you haven't already, sit back & watch him in action then tell me he's what a Christian should be.

I think you will see that he's one of those wolves in sheep's clothing that the Bible speaks of.

 

 

 


 

Originally Posted by hranbama:

why is christianity a major target for nonbelievers and athiests. why they always saying bad stuff about christians but rarely see them mention buddhism, islam, hinduism and all the others.

 

Matthew 24:8-14 "... you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake... And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

hran,

 

This is the TD Forum from the Shoals, in Alabama.  Your point is not discounted altogether, and the other religions you mention are just as silly as Christianity.  But they're less relevant here.

 

DF

Claiming evolution is "just a theory" shows the person making such a claim to be at best ignorant, and at worst a liar. The fact is that theory of evolution is observable, and in some cases, with life forms of short duration, not only observable, but also reproducible in certain genetically modified plants, viruses, and insects. The reason I argue this point is not generated by a hatred of those that persist in pushing a religious agenda, I realize there isn't much hope of making them face reality, but more to stop the relentless propagation of the mental virus known as religion.

Hi Senior,

 

You need to be more explicit.  Are you speaking of micro evolution, i.e. adaptation -- or are you speaking of macro evolution, i.e., Darwinian Evolution which makes claims that one species evolved into a totally different species?

 

Micro evolution, i.e., adaptation is indeed true and we have never questioned it.  People, animals, and plants, when migrated to an environment which is drastically different -- will adapt to that environment.

 

However, as Charley Darwin said, "If science cannot show a transitional fossil -- Darwinian Evolution is dead."  RIP Darwinian Evolution.

 

But, Senior, may I suggest that, instead of calling us ignorant and liars because we do not believe Darwinian Evolution, i.e., macro evolution, to be true -- show us true scientific proof, show us the real "missing link" transitional fossils which Darwin was lamenting 150 years ago.

 

Yes, there have been a number of attempts to present false fossil records to prove the unprovable.  And, there has been quite a few "smoke screen" attempts to pass off an ill-fated "missing link."   But, to date, with millions of fossils records sitting in thousands of museums around the world -- not one true transitional fossil, not one true "missing link."

 

If you have the true "missing link" -- show it and make old Charley Darwin happy.  Otherwise, RIP Darwinian Evolution.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

http://www.sciencemeetsreligio...volution/fossils.php

 

In short, in spite of the near-miraculous conditions necessary for the formation of persistent fossils, not to mention the numerous difficulties of uncovering these fossils, many "gaps" once thought to exist in the fossil record have been filled by transitional fossils. The fossil record is still incomplete, but there good reasons for this. And insisting that two additional gaps now need to be filled whenever a transitional fossil is found is a game that science cannot win. Nor can religion win at this game, since the search for "gaps" in the fossil record is a classic "God of the gaps" theological error, having left a legacy of disillusionment through the ages as scientific research continues its relentless advance. With new and ever-more-remarkable fossil finds now being announced in widely read news sources on almost a weekly basis, those who continue to insist that "gaps" disprove evolution will only heap ridicule on themselves, even in the public eye.

Bill ignores the fact that genetics provides for any "missing links".  Bill never talks about genetics, because it blows the creationist myth out of the water.   "Micro evolution" is a smoke screen, and the only reason that the Creationists admit to it is because it is absolutely undeniable even to them.  Bill and his ilk still try to prove Darwin wrong, and their only argument is "no missing link", while ignoring the ever growing mountains of evidence in other fields that support evolution.   

quote:  Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

http://www.sciencemeetsreligio...volution/fossils.php

 

In short, in spite of the near-miraculous conditions necessary for the formation of persistent fossils, not to mention the numerous difficulties of uncovering these fossils, many "gaps" once thought to exist in the fossil record have been filled by transitional fossils.  The fossil record is still incomplete, but there good reasons for this.  And insisting that two additional gaps now need to be filled whenever a transitional fossil is found is a game that science cannot win.  Nor can religion win at this game, since the search for "gaps" in the fossil record is a classic "God of the gaps" theological error, having left a legacy of disillusionment through the ages as scientific research continues its relentless advance. With new and ever-more-remarkable fossil finds now being announced in widely read news sources on almost a weekly basis, those who continue to insist that "gaps" disprove evolution will only heap ridicule on themselves, even in the public eye.


Hi Jennifer,

 

Your experts, like those Crusty always trots out, write statements such as this:

 

Elephants. Twenty-two distinct species of elephants have now been identified during just the past six million years, generously filling the "gap" between ancient forms and three modern species (the two currently existing elephant species and the recently extinct wooly mammoth). One recently compiled family tree of these species is shown here [Miller1999, pg. 98]:

 

Well, gee whiz, we had little brown elephants and they "evolved" into big grey elephants.  Wow!

 

And, I suppose that a black dog which "evolved" into a golden retriever also proves Darwinian evolution?   Yes, sir, that surely does prove that ONE SPECIES transitioned, i.e., evolved, into a totally different species.

 

I wonder why no one can find the fossils of that monkey as he "evolved" into a kitten, dog, or possum?

 

My Friends, your "science" writers can talk all around the subject.  But, what I am asking is why are there millions of fossil records in thousands of museums around the world -- and no one can walk right up and show us that slippery old "missing link" fossil which existed between species?   Don't talk about it -- SHOW IT!   That is all we ask.

 

Jennifer, your writer tells us, "The fossil record is still incomplete, but there good reasons for this."

 

I agree with him/her, there is a big reason -- IT DOES NOT EXIST!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Claiming evolution is "just a theory" shows the person making such a claim to be at best ignorant, and at worst a liar. The fact is that theory of evolution is observable, and in some cases, with life forms of short duration, not only observable, but also reproducible in certain genetically modified plants, viruses, and insects. The reason I argue this point is not generated by a hatred of those that persist in pushing a religious agenda, I realize there isn't much hope of making them face reality, but more to stop the relentless propagation of the mental virus known as religion.

Bows and scrapes, kow tows to  Senior Coffee.

 

DF

The refusal of Fundamentalists to accept sound science is to their disgrace.  No one else's.  The world, perhaps America excepted, despite the efforts of her diminishing intellectual element, will continue to progress regardless.  But not without a fight.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that the anti-science element of simplistic American religiosity is a corrosive and retarding vector on not only American scientific progress, but worldwide scientific progress.
These troglodytic, Medieval at best, artards must be resisted at every level, in person and in print.  Never relent.

 

DF

I'm no longer surprised at the lengths of refutable logic, and downright denial of scientific fact that Bill is capable of.   This is exactly the same sort of logic and self-delusion that the followers of Charlie Manson, Jim Jones, the Scientologists and a host of other cultists put themselves through.  It would be sad to watch if they only harmed themselves, it is downright scary when you let them walk the streets unguarded.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'm no longer surprised at the lengths of refutable logic, and downright denial of scientific fact that Bill is capable of.   This is exactly the same sort of logic and self-delusion that the followers of Charlie Manson, Jim Jones, the Scientologists and a host of other cultists put themselves through.  It would be sad to watch if they only harmed themselves, it is downright scary when you let them walk the streets unguarded.

And people wonder why atheists and scientists are so "strident".  You've nailed it precisely, crusty.  My regards and congratulations.

 

DF

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. Evolution is undeniable. Most people with scruples, regardless of faith, have been on board for a while. Those that still protest make themselves look more foolish with every word. The world has left them behind and they will soon take their preference for ignorance to their graves.

Remember them. They are living relics from an archaic time and mindset. Marvel at their sideshow, while they still exist. Dumbfound future generations with your accounts of close encounters!

Bill, Sorry it took so long, but I finally found the link I've been seeking. http://www.en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinius I realize this is a Wikipedia site, but chose it, because it is probably easier for you to understand, since it is written in layman terms. For the more intelligent among us, the following link is peer reviewed. Http://www.plosone.org/article...journal.pone.0005723 This is just one of the many existing fossils that fill the map spanning the evolution of primates. You only asked for one.
quote:  Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Bill, Sorry it took so long, but I finally found the link I've been seeking. http://www.en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinius I realize this is a Wikipedia site, but chose it, because it is probably easier for you to understand, since it is written in layman terms. For the more intelligent among us, the following link is peer reviewed. Http://www.plosone.org/article...journal.pone.0005723 This is just one of the many existing fossils that fill the map spanning the evolution of primates. You only asked for one.

Hi Senior,

 

One simple question.  Darwinian Evolution tells us that one species evolved into a totally different species.  And, anyone would know that if a Species A is going to evolve into Species B there must be some Species "Hybrids" or in between forms of Species A becoming Species B.  The only way to avoid having some transition species is for Species A to suddenly be zapped into Species B -- therefore not going through any transition stages.

 

And, we all know that even old Charley Darwin did not believe that.  Therefore, if Species A evolves into Species B -- there has to be some transition fossils.   That is the mystery -- there have never been any transition fossils, i.e., "missing links" found.   In all the millions of fossil records in thousands of museums around the world -- not one transition "missing link" fossil.  Why?  They do not exist.

 

Okay, now to my simple question for you.  You seem to be implying that this Darwinius fossil they are calling Ida -- is one of those transition fossils.  Let's say I buy that.  Tell us what animal, i.e., Species A, Darwinius was before it began evolving -- and what animal, i.e., Species B, Darwinius evolved into at some later date. 

 

Obviously, this little creature in your fossil record photos did not evolve into anything -- because he died and was fossilized.  But, his transitional "hybrid" animal type, i.e., his brothers and sisters, must have completed their evolutionary cycle journey.  If that it true, we should have a record of Species B animals -- or, better yet, see some running around, somewhere.  What is the name of the Species B animal?

 

What was Darwinius before it began its transition?  And, what species was Darwinius evolving, i.e., transitioning, toward?

 

I realize that I just a retired Christian computer engineer/salesman; but, if you can answer my question in layman terms that I can understand, I will sincerely appreciate your effort.

 

Thank you and God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Adding Evolution To The Bible-1

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  • Adding Evolution To The Bible-1

Bill,

It seems you may be smarter than you pretend. You're right life doesn't jump from one life form to another. It evolves. That's why it has taken millions of years to get where we are today.

Your cartoon is also correct. That is exactly how the Scientific Method of testing Theories and seeking Truth is eating a hole in the Wholly Bable.

 

from the URL link:  www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/02/meteorites‐that‐formed‐earth_n_1315903.html?ref=science   


Yet continual revision of theories regarding Creation, in this case Earth.  I have no problem with revision of theories as time goes on.  What I do find objectionable and unreasonable is when certain people take theories and hypothesis and assign a status of undeniable FACT or undeniable truth to it and then judge others on the basis of whether or not they choose to also accept or believe in such theories.  


Here is yet one quote from the article 

"Earth's building blocks were more eclectic than once thought, according to a new study suggesting our planet formed from collisions of many different types of meteorites.

Our planet is thought to have formed around 4.5 billion years ago from a disk of dust grains left over from the cloud of material that built our sun. These grains slowly clumped together, drawn by gravity into pebbles, then boulders, then planetary embryos. Eventually, enough mass coalesced to form the planet Earth.

Scientists had thought that most of the bodies that merged to make Earth formed from a narrow zone in space and were similar to each other, belonging to a subclass of meteorites called enstatite chondrites. This idea was based on measurements of numerous striking similarities between different types of atoms (called isotopes) of elements such as oxygen, nickel and chromium, between the Earth and enstatite chondrites.

But a new study of the silicon isotope signature of Earth rock samples and meteorites suggests that Earth is made of a more diverse mix of meteorites. [The Solar System To Scale (Infographic)"

Still many make such statements that Evolution is a FACT or reference the Big Bang or how the Earth was created as FACT and decry that anyone who doesn't fall in lock step behind such thinking as being dumb or uneducated or attach some group of highly negative terms to reference about such people.  Science still operates on theories and has no real dogmatic knowledge about how we all got here or how creation was formed.  This article itself considers earth as forming by accident or some accidental grouping of elements drawn together by accident and held by gravity yet fails to explain where gravity came from, to begin with, or explain how this accidental gathering of elements that somehow stuck together after all this time yields a core that is so hot that it cannot be explored by any method due to it's temperature and energy.  The same type people assume life evolved by accidental means also that somehow a grouping of elements or non-life forms/material got together and formed from which somehow life came from non-life by a process we are to just accept as valid.  

 

These same people then have the audacity and arrogance to consider (worse to JUDGE)  anyone who objects, on any basis, as insane or ludicrous because they happen to disbelieve this THEORY as the basis by which all living things became.  We are to accept that all living things evolved from one most basic singular living thing which we are to also assume came from and was made by accidental accumulation of non-living matter and things that somehow just all of a sudden began to live or spring LIFE starting as one most basis and plan singular cell that somehow was defined as alive and having developed or established some form of innate intelligence dividing and over time becomes the basis for all life forms and species we have today.  And people are ignorant and dumb if they somehow find this theory as unacceptable and not feasible by such theories.

 

And it is by the criteria of whether or not you accept such theories as indis****ble truth that some people judge others worth and intelligence making such dogmatic, judgmental, statements.  Those who do such exemplify  the terms pride and arrogance thinking themselves to be something they most obviously are not.  What they are most assuredly is quite gullible.  What is sad is when, just because they choose to accept a certain theory, they judge all others, who do not subscribe to those theories, as being beneath themselves when all they really do is reveal their own arrogance and insecurities. 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:

Bill, It seems you may be smarter than you pretend. You're right life doesn't jump from one life form to another. It evolves. That's why it has taken millions of years to get where we are today.


Hi Senior,

 

You have danced around, but have not addressed my question in the post above:

 

What was Darwinius before it began its transition?  And, what species was Darwinius evolving, i.e., transitioning, toward?

 

Do you want to give a shot at answering the question?  Or, shall we just continue to dance?  Without a previous species -- and the upcoming species; all you have is adaptation.  And, we have all agreed that adaptation, i.e., micro evolution is true.  However, Darwinian Evolution, i.e., macro evolution -- is a pipe dream.

 

I am still waiting to see a legitimate "missing link" fossil record. 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill has had it explained to him many times. He just chooses to ignore the facts and there is no real reason to even attempt to "debate" it with him. I know I have posted sites over and over for him to read, but apparently he isn't reading them, or once more he's ignoring the facts they present because he doesn't want to know/acknowledge the truth. 

GBRK

 

"Still many make such statements that Evolution is a FACT or reference the Big Bang or how the Earth was created as FACT and decry that anyone who doesn't fall in lock step behind such thinking as being dumb or uneducated"

That is sadly true. Scientific theories are made of facts. It is a fact that live evolves. We see it in the laborotory even now with bacteria and viruses evolving to thwart our medicine. We see it in action with millions of higher animals .....just not as quickly because evolution takes thousands of generations before changes are outwardly aparent. It is a fact that older geologic layers have older embedded fossils in them. It is a fact that these older fossils appear to be more primitive than fossils found above them, more modern than fossils found below them. It is a fact that mutations, artificial and natural selection are the main mechanisms behind the evolution of one species into another. It is a fact that genes allow us to track our ancestors and inter-relatedness between species. We humans share about 40% of our genes with the banana plant. Yes, we are related to the banana tree. Genetics show us that there is almost as much genetic diversity between humans as there is between us and our closest relatives, the Chimpanzee.  Evolution has million upon millions of facts that support it. All these facts make up a theory. All you need to topple that theory is to find one single fossil from a "modern" specimine in a geologic strata that is much older. All you need to do is topple the entire field of genetics. Now, your challenge is to produce a contradictory theory that is also supported by all these facts. Men have been trying and failing to do this for at least 150 years. So what scientific theory do you have that is supported by the facts that is strong enough to convince the entire medical community that evolution is wrong? It sickens me deeply that so many otherwise smart people have closed off their minds to legitimate science because of religious fundamentalism. I know very well where the atheists derive their venom against these people. in my profession, I see very caring parents decide against a life-saving procedure (transfusions) because their fundamentalist beliefs go against modern science.  So GBRK when you are called "dumb" or "ignorant" for your beliefs, this is why: Your beliefs can and do kill people.

Bill,

"What was Darwinius before it began its transition?  And, what species was Darwinius evolving, i.e., transitioning, toward?  Do you want to give a shot at answering the question?"

I've seen this same question from you answered quite convincingly by many on this blog and you obviously don't listen. So I'll try this: Language is a very good metaphor for evolution.  Your question is exactly the same as asking "What was English before it was English?" The answer is "Lots of other languages"

 

The language we now call English is actually a blend of many languages. Even the original Anglo-Saxon was already a blend of the dialects of west Germanic tribes living along the North Sea coast:  The Saxons in Germany and eastern Holland. Our language has influences from just about all "species" of European languages. Those languages have roots in older languages and so on and so on all the way back to the era when proto-humans gained the ability to vocalize.English is now a "species."  Though there are similarities between English and Spanish, communication between them is impossible, English and Spanish are separate "species" now.  But as the world get more mobile, these languages are slowly influencing each other,. English is spoken just about everywhere now. It is injecting its "genes" into other languages.  Eventually, if the political environment remains as it is, English will become predominant and all other languages will shrink in influence until they join other ""extinct" languages.English didn't just pop up as an official language one day. It came to be over many hundreds of years of "genetic" blending between cultures.

Chinese and other oriental languages evolved almost completely isolated from other languages so there is almost no similarity between their language and ours. While English and Spansh can be comapred to the difference between homo sapiens and neanderthals, the comparison ebtwen chinese and English is more like the difference between homo sapiens and cro-magnon: you can tell they are related but so vastly different that is almost has no resemblance.

You find "transitional" languages in Frisian, a dead language that is spoken only in Northern Norway. It is very nearly extinct.Here is an example of Frisian "De Friezen binne in Germaansk folk, troch Tacitus rekkene ta de Ingvaeones, de Germaanske folken oan de Noardseekust.Oan it begjin fan ús jiertelling skreaunen de Romeinen fan de Friezen oan de kust fan de Noardsee. Om't de Friezen útwreiden nei it suden wylst de Romeinen nei it noarden kamen, moeten de twa folken inoar, en doe't de Romeinen in grins fêststeld hienen, wienen der Friezen binnen en bûten it Romeinske Ryk. De Romeinen hienen it oer Frisiavones foar de minsken dy't besuden de Ryn wennen, en dermei part fan it ryk wienen, en fan Frisii foar de lju oer de Ryn, dy't gjin fêst part fan it ryk wienen, al waarden se al troch de Romeinen betwongen. Sjoen troch de eagen fan de Romeinen wienen de Frisii in nuver folk, om't se libben yn in gebiet dat twa kear deis ûnder wetter rekke."

Isn't that interesting? You can clearly see the "fossil" of modern English in there. You can tell it is related to our language but it is not our language. Because we cannot communicate with those people, it is a separate "species" that is almost extinct. So, Bill, every single fossil out there is a "transitional" fossil. When you are finally planted in the ground, some scientist a million years from now may find your body and determine that you were a "homo sapiens" that is related to whatever they call their species.

Arguing with Bill is a form of *********ion.  Nothing will ever be accomplished except for a certain shallow self-satisfaction.  He is not worth your efforts.

 

Resisting the anti-science agenda of the religious element prevalent in the Shoals, and elsewhere, is of utmost importance and of profound importance.  The strident efforts of fundamentalist regiosists to return us to the Dark Ages is no laughing matter, when roughly half of the American populace entertains the literal fiction of Genesis.

 

We have a fight on our hands which we must win if the human species is to continue to flourish.  Nowhere is this fight more important than here and at no time more important than now.

 

Those who challenge scientific biology must be challenged with facts and demonstrable knowledge.  Their superstitious, weak attempts to undermine science must be met with  a fierce defense of the best of the human intellect, against which they are helpless.

 

 

The only thing necessary for ignorance to prevail is for intellectuals to do nothing.

 

DF

Deep, you are the most moronic self proclaimed "intellectual" I have ever witnessed.  Some of the things you post border on insanity.  I truly feel sorry for you...You are amazing, and that is not meant as a compliment.  Yes, as you can guess, I am one of the idiot Christians you find a need to constantly belittle.  I could list pages of reasons that I believe as I do, but I know it would mean nothing to you and several other frequent posters.  I hope that some day there is an event that will allow you and the others to see the light.  I can also absolutely guarantee that there are people who are believers in this world whose intelligence level is way beyond the greatly exaggerated level you believe yourself to reside.  You make it very obvious that you are not nearly as intelligent as you sadly wish you were.  Sad, sad DF....

Hi Crusty,

Thank you, my Friend.  I took your challenge and examined the web sites you gave us.  Below is what I found in each of the three:


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
UNDERSTANDING EVOLUTION:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/...ary/article/lines_02


Fossil evidence:  Nicholas Steno's anatomical drawing of an extant shark and a fossil shark tooth.  Nicholas Steno's anatomical drawing of an extant shark (left) and a fossil shark tooth (right). Steno made the leap and declared that the fossil teeth indeed came from the mouths of once-living sharks.

The fossil record provides snapshots of the past that, when assembled, illustrate a panorama of evolutionary change over the past four billion years. The picture may be smudged in places and may have bits missing, but fossil evidence clearly shows that life is old and has changed over time.

Early fossil discoveries:  In the 17th century, Nicholas Steno shook the world of science, noting the similarity between shark teeth and the rocks commonly known as "tongue stones."  This was our first understanding that fossils were a record of past life.

Two centuries later, Mary Ann Mantell picked up a tooth, which her husband Gideon thought to be of a large iguana, but it turned out to be the tooth of a dinosaur, Iguanodon.  This discovery sent the powerful message that many fossils represented forms of life that are no longer with us today.

Additional clues from fossils: Today we may take fossils for granted, but we continue to learn from them. Each new fossil contains additional clues that increase our understanding of life's history and help us to answer questions about their evolutionary story.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TRANSITIONAL FORMS:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/...ticle/0_0_0/lines_03


Note that the nostril placement in Aetiocetus is intermediate between the ancestral form Pakicetus and the modern gray whale — an excellent example of a transitional form in the fossil record!

 

Bill Gray note:  Gee, a whale became a whale!  Amazing discovery!


Horse evolution tree:   Our understanding of the evolution of horse feet, so often depicted in textbooks, is derived from a scattered sampling of horse fossils within the multi-branched horse evolutionary tree. These fossil organisms represent branches on the tree and not a direct line of descent leading to modern horses.

 

Bill Gray note:  And, a horse becomes a horse!  My mind is blown!


But, the standard diagram does clearly show transitional stages whereby the four-toed foot of Hyracotherium, otherwise known as Eohippus, became the single-toed foot of Equus. Fossils show that the transitional forms predicted by evolution did indeed exist.

As you can see to the left, each branch tip on the tree of horse evolution indicates a different genus, though the feet of only a few genera are illustrated to show the reduction of toes through time.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FOSSIL EVIDENCE
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/e...fossil-evidence.html
By Rima Chaddha, Posted 11.01.07, NOVA


In 2004, scientists digging in the Canadian Arctic unearthed fossils of a half-fish, half-amphibian that all but confirmed paleontologists' theories about how land-dwelling tetrapods – four-limbed animals, including us – evolved from fish. It is a classic example of a transitional form, one that bridges a so-called evolutionary gap between different types of animal. In this slide show, examine five important cases.

 

Bill Gray note:  Once more, lots of drawings -- but, not actual "missing link" photos.  Gee, I wonder why?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++


So, what have we found in these web sites?   We found that a horse evolved into a different size horseWe saw fossilized shark teeth that folks in older days thought were just stones.

And, we say DRAWINGS of Transitional Fossil proof.   Wait a minute?   DRAWINGS of the proof?  If the proof exists, if the "missing link" is no longer missing -- show us the REAL TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL RECORD.   Don't give us drawings from someone's overactive imagination.

So much for your PROOF of Darwinian Evolution.   As I have said many times -- yes, MICRO EVOLUTION, i.e., adaptation -- one horse evolving into a larger horse or a smaller horse -- is indeed true.   However, all you have to prove Darwinian Evolution are drawings.  Okay!

On the other hand, we have, on undeniable authority, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"  Genesis 1:1.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Fish_Eating_Darwin

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Typical of Bill, he looks through the sites loaded with information just to pick at "transitional" fossils.  He still claims that evolution is about fish becoming birds and horses, dogs.  His continued misunderstanding is obviously purposeful since admitting to the fact of evolution destroys his house of cards.  He would rather place his scientific understanding on allegories an drug induced dreams. 

 

So, Bill, besides poo-pooing the parts you listed, what about those parts is wrong?  Oh, and there were plenty of pictures on those websites.  Did you see them, or not?  It is too bad you didn't learn anything, but now you can't - assuming you read through the sites completely - claim to be ignorant. 

Originally Posted by daddy joe:

Deep, you are the most moronic self proclaimed "intellectual" I have ever witnessed.  Some of the things you post border on insanity.  I truly feel sorry for you...You are amazing, and that is not meant as a compliment. I can also absolutely guarantee that there are people who are believers in this world whose intelligence level is way beyond the greatly exaggerated level you believe yourself to reside.  You make it very obvious that you are not nearly as intelligent as you sadly wish you were.  Sad, sad DF....

____________________________________

Bill needs this post directed at him much more than Deep does. He does more to hurt the Christian cause than Deep could ever think of doing.

quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Oh, and Bill, here is your photographic list of fossils that show the evolution of man. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...an_evolution_fossils 


Hi Crusty,

 

Your web site is showing a bunch of skulls and bones.  We could go to graveyards and find millions of those.

 

However, show us the PROOF that even one of these is a "transition" fossil record between monkey and man -- or between fish and fowl. 

 

Crusty, I can show you a rock or bone -- and make any claim I want about it.  But, I could not prove that it used to be a monkey and now is a man.  And, neither can you, nor your evolutionist scientists.

 

Good try, my Friend (for a bluff!) -- but, no cigar, Billy Bob.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

WHAT WAS THIS BEFORE -- AND WHAT IS IT BECOMING?

Australopithecus Sediba

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Originally Posted by daddy joe:

Deep, you are the most moronic self proclaimed "intellectual" I have ever witnessed.  Some of the things you post border on insanity.  I truly feel sorry for you...You are amazing, and that is not meant as a compliment.  Yes, as you can guess, I am one of the idiot Christians you find a need to constantly belittle.  I could list pages of reasons that I believe as I do, but I know it would mean nothing to you and several other frequent posters.  I hope that some day there is an event that will allow you and the others to see the light.  I can also absolutely guarantee that there are people who are believers in this world whose intelligence level is way beyond the greatly exaggerated level you believe yourself to reside.  You make it very obvious that you are not nearly as intelligent as you sadly wish you were.  Sad, sad DF....

Daddy Joe,
I do not set myself up as a lofty intellectual, but I do propose that all of us humans use our free minds to gauge reality.  Six Day Creation, Noah's Flood, Redemption from Original Sin are just a few of the reasons that a thinking mind must discard, regardless of how long it takes to arrive there.
If you remember the Smothers Brothers, Tommy was the "idiot".  In reality, Tommy was the slower of the tow, by his own admission, but he said he always came to the right conclusion eventually.  His intellect is perfectly acceptable.
Those who use the tortured, fractured, and dishonest illogic to defend the Bible against better knowledge are not slow, they're just crooked and not to be trusted.  Not to be trusted with intellectual capital and certainly not to be trusted with the education of innocent, malleable children.

 

We do not forgive, we do not forget.  Expect us.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Oh, and Bill, here is your photographic list of fossils that show the evolution of man. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...an_evolution_fossils 


Hi Crusty,

 

Your web site is showing a bunch of skulls and bones.  We could go to graveyards and find millions of those.

 

However, show us the PROOF that even one of these is a "transition" fossil record between monkey and man -- or between fish and fowl. 

 

Crusty, I can show you a rock or bone -- and make any claim I want about it.  But, I could not prove that it used to be a monkey and now is a man.  And, neither can you, nor your evolutionist scientists.

 

Good try, my Friend (for a bluff!) -- but, no cigar, Billy Bob.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill


 

No bluff.  They are all transitional fossils.  You asked for photographs, I gave you a time line with all the photos attached or linked.  If a picture is worth a thousand words, this timeline with photos is worth millions.  Of course you have to deny this or your fundamentalist beliefs collapse. 

 

It is your bluff that has been called.  And my name isn't  Billy Bob, Goober.

 
 
 
 

Here is a YouTube video of a pastor confronting the topic of Evolution and the different types.  While there are many YouTube videos ranging from pro-evolution to anti-evolution each video or person's perspective (opinion) is based in faith, their faith.  I find this pastor's video very entertaining and informative.  I, for one, would like some of our "expert" atheist in here to answer some of the objections and questions this Creationist has and brings up in the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

 

 

How about the answer to reproduction itself?  I mean if Evolution is exact and the way that life became and this was all an unintelligent process then how does male/female reproduction fit into the design of life?  Which came first the chicken or the egg or the creature or the egg?  Which came first the person or the embryo?  If you are going to believe in Evolution and especially if you are so 100% sure it's fact and unquestionable then surely you have these answers.  What I see is the digging up of bones and making great assumptions that one leads ultimately to another without any direct evidence or transitions.  Then when the question is posed why aren't those transitions happening today before our eyes since the base species or elements are there and the supposed destination elements or species are here why are not the transitory incremental living beings there to examine and point to?  Why did this process just happen once and stop?   So many questions yet the answers are to expect us to take what is given as answers on faith based upon assumptions.  

 

Bill has presented what he believes and why he believes it yet it is soundly rejected.  Why though is he not given the same consideration as those who quickly dismiss his beliefs expect to be given for their own beliefs and assumptions?

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I feel sorry for the ones that are still so mired down by superstition and lies. Many of them can't seem to see any value at all in the world without their make believe sky daddy. Most of them seem to think that if they did not have this lie to believe in their own self worth and existence would be moot. To me that is very very sad. What makes me sometimes angry is that those same people aren't happy just believing in this fairy tale for themselves. They insist we all live as if it were true. I have heard over and over that they don't care if I believe or not. However, I find that to be only lip service. If that were true then we would not see so many believers trying to enact laws that are based on their fanciful superstition.

 

When I read about the things that have been said and done to the 16 year old little girl in RI for standing up for the Constitution, I see that Christians know their belief is a weak stance (at best) otherwise why would they bully a child.

 

I too think that most of them know its not true yet they continue to perpetuated the lie. For money, to fit in, for power, and maybe for some, fear. Maybe that (fear) is why gbrk can't seem to grasp the evidence backing evolution. Who knows...

 

Hopefully the next generation will have evolved past this need to cling to lies and superstition. I meet so many young people these days that just laugh at it. We owe it to them, and those that will come after them, to pave the way for a brighter more reasoned future.

 

Out of the dark ages and into the light!!!!


Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.

Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.


----------------------------------------

What atheist is trying to get you to "believe in" or "worship" satan?  What part of "there is no god, there is no satan" do you not get? Why would an atheist "worship" a mythical satan and not a mythical god?? 

Originally Posted by Gingee:

Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.

__________________________

Oh, good grief! Even a 6 year old would know that if an Atheist doesn't believe in God, they wouldn't believe in Satan either. They won't be united with anyone cause they don't worship anyone.

Sheeish!!!

Originally Posted by gbrk:

Here is a YouTube video of a pastor confronting the topic of Evolution and the different types.  While there are many YouTube videos ranging from pro-evolution to anti-evolution each video or person's perspective (opinion) is based in faith, their faith.  I find this pastor's video very entertaining and informative.  I, for one, would like some of our "expert" atheist in here to answer some of the objections and questions this Creationist has and brings up in the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

 

 

 

How about the answer to reproduction itself?  I mean if Evolution is exact and the way that life became and this was all an unintelligent process then how does male/female reproduction fit into the design of life?  Which came first the chicken or the egg or the creature or the egg?  Which came first the person or the embryo?  If you are going to believe in Evolution and especially if you are so 100% sure it's fact and unquestionable then surely you have these answers.  What I see is the digging up of bones and making great assumptions that one leads ultimately to another without any direct evidence or transitions.  Then when the question is posed why aren't those transitions happening today before our eyes since the base species or elements are there and the supposed destination elements or species are here why are not the transitory incremental living beings there to examine and point to?  Why did this process just happen once and stop?   So many questions yet the answers are to expect us to take what is given as answers on faith based upon assumptions.  

 

Bill has presented what he believes and why he believes it yet it is soundly rejected.  Why though is he not given the same consideration as those who quickly dismiss his beliefs expect to be given for their own beliefs and assumptions?

gb,

 

I have kept up with "Dr" Hovind lo these many years.  He is  not only a transparent charlatan, but he's been kept in Maximum Security in Federal prison because he's obviously a head case.
Almost every thing out of his filthy mouth is a lie. 
GB, when one must lie to support a premise, the premise was never true.  Hovind's premise of a Young Earth Creationist model, and the literal reading of the Bible are obviously untrue. 
I cannot believe that you post Hovind as a defense to any intellectual position. The man is a proven liar, not only in the issue of his taxes, but on every point of science.
If you are this desperate to find reasons to believe your preconceived notions, then I suggest you take a step back, put all a priori notions aside, and investigate reality.
Hovind defends a 6000-year old Earth.  Not because he believes it, but because he was taking advantage of ignorant imbeciles who would happily pay him to lie to them.
I have better hopes for you.  Please work with me on this.  You're better than Kent Hovind.  You're way better than his artard son Eric who has kept up the family fraud.

 

 

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

DF

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote:   Originally Posted by Gingee:
Talk about hypocracy and arogance. So who is trying to get who to believe a certain way. I guess you athiest don't try to get any laws changed or new laws enacted to go along with your beliefs. Your father Satan is the one you and all athiest worship. He is the father of all lies and liars. You will be united with the one you worship one day and you won't have to worry about dealing with Christians anymore.

Oh, good grief! Even a 6 year old would know that if an Atheist doesn't believe in God, they wouldn't believe in Satan either. They won't be united with anyone cause they don't worship anyone.

Sheeish!!! 


Hi Chick,

 

One never knows what an atheist mind will dream up to believe.  After all, they buy into old Charley Darwin's fantasy of "life created from non-life" -- and alligators which become horses -- and monkeys which become men.  Of course, in that last one old Charley may have been working on his own genealogy chart.

 

Hey, if atheist can believe the likes of Darwin and Dawkins -- why not sell them that beautiful bridge in Brooklyn?   So, no, it is not to far a stretch to believe that atheist could not believe in God -- but, believe other lies.  They have already proven their gullibility.  Just a thought!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Maxines-Honk-Love-Jesus

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Originally Posted by gbrk:

Here is a YouTube video of a pastor confronting the topic of Evolution and the different types.  While there are many YouTube videos ranging from pro-evolution to anti-evolution each video or person's perspective (opinion) is based in faith, their faith.  I find this pastor's video very entertaining and informative.  I, for one, would like some of our "expert" atheist in here to answer some of the objections and questions this Creationist has and brings up in the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

 

 

 

How about the answer to reproduction itself?  I mean if Evolution is exact and the way that life became and this was all an unintelligent process then how does male/female reproduction fit into the design of life?  Which came first the chicken or the egg or the creature or the egg?  Which came first the person or the embryo?  If you are going to believe in Evolution and especially if you are so 100% sure it's fact and unquestionable then surely you have these answers.  What I see is the digging up of bones and making great assumptions that one leads ultimately to another without any direct evidence or transitions.  Then when the question is posed why aren't those transitions happening today before our eyes since the base species or elements are there and the supposed destination elements or species are here why are not the transitory incremental living beings there to examine and point to?  Why did this process just happen once and stop?   So many questions yet the answers are to expect us to take what is given as answers on faith based upon assumptions.  

 

Bill has presented what he believes and why he believes it yet it is soundly rejected.  Why though is he not given the same consideration as those who quickly dismiss his beliefs expect to be given for their own beliefs and assumptions?

__________

Bill's beliefs aren't based on anything factual.  It is quite easy to reject them when there is clear evidence to the contrary.

 

As to your video, I watched the first few minutes - and couldn't take his stupid jokes any more.  So I skipped ahead.  Where I landed he was "proving" that the Colorado River hadn't taken thousands or millions of years to carve the Grand Canyon but it had been done in a couple of days or weeks, and was done so as a result of the Great Flood.  His original premise begins, if you dammed the Colorado River, it would create a lake that would cover five states.  This premise is inherently false as the Colorado River is ****ed in a number of spots, the main one being Hoover Dam.  The lake there doesn't cover five states.  With his basic premise blown literally out of the water, the rest of his reasoning collapses.

 

So I backed up a little and he was talking about homologies.  First he completely misrepresented what science says about homologies, then went into an apples and oranges comparison between homologies and lug nuts on cars. 

 

This is typical of fundamentalist "science".  First they misrepresent what the science says, then they go about "proving" it is wrong through irrelevant and easily refutable "logical" arguments.  They start with false premises, then follow a convoluted "logical" path that leads back to their ridiculous idea that the Bible should be taken literally.  God laughs at these people, and so do I. 

 

For real Christians, who have an actual relationship with God, that the universe began billions of years ago, and that life evolves, is no problem.  These hucksters are bibliolatrists.

Charley Darwin's fantasy of "life created from non-life" -- and alligators which become horses

 

---------------------------

That may be the biggest lie you ever told. Sell atheists a bridge? LOL, not bloody likely. YOU can't sell atheists your mythical god. OUR gullibility? You believe a god that was always here, came from no where apparently, played in the dirt and created humans, then you have the face to call atheists gullible?  Anyone that believes that claptrap is not only gullible but nuts to boot.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

 

One never knows what an atheist mind will dream up to believe.  After all, they buy into old Charley Darwin's fantasy of "life created from non-life" -- and alligators which become horses -- and monkeys which become men.  Of course, in that last one old Charley may have been working on his own genealogy chart.

 

Hey, if atheist can believe the likes of Darwin and Dawkins -- why not sell them that beautiful bridge in Brooklyn?   So, no, it is not to far a stretch to believe that atheist could not believe in God -- but, believe other lies.  They have already proven their gullibility.  Just a thought!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_______________

See, Bill is as bad as Kent Hovind.  He knows, or at least should know since he claims he has read through the three websites that I posted, that Darwin teaches nothing of the sort.  Bill please get Dory to call a deprogrammer.  I'm sure there are many rep u table ones in your area of LA-la-land.

quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
For real Christians, who have an actual relationship with God, that the universe began billions of years ago, and that life evolves, is no problem.  These hucksters are just cultists with an attitude.

Hi Crusty,

 

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.  God tells us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- and, then a few days later, we read that God said, "Let us make man in our image -- and He created them, man and woman, in His own image."

 

Now, what I believe you are saying is that a real Christian, one who truly has a saving relationship with God -- will tell God that He is lying in Genesis, that is not how He created the heavens and the earth.  And, a good Christian will tell God that, unless He aligns Himself with old Charley Darwin -- He is history.   Is that about right?  Crusty, is that YOUR view of God and His Creation?

 

If that is what you truly believe -- GOOD LUCK!  Bring lots of sun tan lotion.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Snoopy-DOG

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
For real Christians, who have an actual relationship with God, that the universe began billions of years ago, and that life evolves, is no problem.  These hucksters are just cultists with an attitude.

Hi Crusty,

 

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.  God tells us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- and, then a few days later, we read that God said, "Let us make man in our image -- and He created them, man and woman, in His own image."

 

Now, what I believe you are saying is that a real Christian, one who truly has a saving relationship with God -- will tell God that He is lying in Genesis, that is not how He created the heavens and the earth.  And, a good Christian will tell God that, unless He aligns Himself with old Charley Darwin -- He is history.   Is that about right?  Crusty, is that YOUR view of God and His Creation?

 

If that is what you truly believe -- GOOD LUCK!  Bring lots of sun tan lotion.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

___________________

As we have discussed many times Bill, I know that the Bible is not written by God.  It was written by men.  I'll accept the idea that the writers were inspired by God, but that isn't the same.  I know for a fact that the original text of the Bible no longer exists, and that at best we have copies of copies that have had errors introduced.  I know that the Bible was compiled by men, not God, and that there are many "Holy" texts that have been omitted. There are contradictory passages that only convoluted and fallacious logic can resolve.  A text written by a perfect being wouldn't be open to interpretation, everything would be obvious, crystal clear to all.

 

I know for a fact that God is not speaking in Genesis, as Genesis was written - at least the last time I studied it - by what is believed to be at least several different writers.  So I am not calling God a liar.

 

I know that the universe was created billions of years ago, and that evolution is fact.  I know that this doesn't contradict the Bible, unless you are a bibliolatrist and require the Bible to be taken literally for your belief system to hold up.  The Scholastics solved this theological problem centuries ago.

 

I have tried to refrain from it, but I am calling YOU a liar.  You are a Liar for Jesus, a person who has to lie for his ridiculous - non-Christian - belief system to hold up.  You pretend to be a Christian, but you have no relationship with God or Jesus, at best you are a Pharisee, but obviously a bibliolatrist.  I believe there are passages about what happens to the souls of those who worship idols instead of God.  Do you remember those? 

 

I am sorry for you that you don't understand the teachings of Jesus well enough to know that you can't fool God and try to make up for all your prior debauchery by joining the fundamentalist cult of Bible worshipers.  You hope to be the prodigal son, but you even miss the point of that parable. 

 

Please contact a qualified deprogrammer asap.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

Here is a YouTube video of a pastor confronting the topic of Evolution and the different types.  While there are many YouTube videos ranging from pro-evolution to anti-evolution each video or person's perspective (opinion) is based in faith, their faith.  I find this pastor's video very entertaining and informative.  I, for one, would like some of our "expert" atheist in here to answer some of the objections and questions this Creationist has and brings up in the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

 

 

 

How about the answer to reproduction itself?  I mean if Evolution is exact and the way that life became and this was all an unintelligent process then how does male/female reproduction fit into the design of life?  Which came first the chicken or the egg or the creature or the egg?  Which came first the person or the embryo?  If you are going to believe in Evolution and especially if you are so 100% sure it's fact and unquestionable then surely you have these answers.  What I see is the digging up of bones and making great assumptions that one leads ultimately to another without any direct evidence or transitions.  Then when the question is posed why aren't those transitions happening today before our eyes since the base species or elements are there and the supposed destination elements or species are here why are not the transitory incremental living beings there to examine and point to?  Why did this process just happen once and stop?   So many questions yet the answers are to expect us to take what is given as answers on faith based upon assumptions.  

 

Bill has presented what he believes and why he believes it yet it is soundly rejected.  Why though is he not given the same consideration as those who quickly dismiss his beliefs expect to be given for their own beliefs and assumptions?

gb,

 

I have kept up with "Dr" Hovind lo these many years.  He is  not only a transparent charlatan, but he's been kept in Maximum Security in Federal prison because he's obviously a head case.
Almost every thing out of his filthy mouth is a lie. 
GB, when one must lie to support a premise, the premise was never true.  Hovind's premise of a Young Earth Creationist model, and the literal reading of the Bible are obviously untrue. 
I cannot believe that you post Hovind as a defense to any intellectual position. The man is a proven liar, not only in the issue of his taxes, but on every point of science.
If you are this desperate to find reasons to believe your preconceived notions, then I suggest you take a step back, put all a priori notions aside, and investigate reality.
Hovind defends a 6000-year old Earth.  Not because he believes it, but because he was taking advantage of ignorant imbeciles who would happily pay him to lie to them.
I have better hopes for you.  Please work with me on this.  You're better than Kent Hovind.  You're way better than his artard son Eric who has kept up the family fraud.

 

 

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

DF

Mr. Hovind's law problems are centered around his opposition and refusal to pay Income Taxes.  As to tagging him as a liar or inferring that anything related to taxes also applies to his doctrines is a stretch.    My interest in his Video, which by the way is the first I had heard of him, was related to some of the questions he came up with.  Some points regarding some questions that Evolutionist should be able to answer.  All I've seen you address is his conviction regarding tax evasion which is a stand he, wrongly takes, against the Government and he paid a price for it.  That still does not negate some of the accusations he makes regarding Evolution or the Big Bang.  His questions regarding those subjects are still valid and although his video is obviously biased and one-sided I see no solid refuting of his points, regarding reasons to disbelieve Evolution or the Big Bang.  Those were the two issues I was listening to him cover.  As for the young earth or his belief in Creation timing that is yet another issue that, at this time, deflects attention away from "The Big Bang" or Evolution as the origins.  I still see no plausible explanations of how life comes from non-life, how complex intelligence comes from a singular, unintelligent and undirected process that has never been replicated or can be but remains in the realm of speculation, ideas, hypothesis and theory.  How does one get from a singularity leading to all living species yet fails to address reproduction as a method for populating each species.  There are many questions that remain unaddressed and unanswered.  Mr. Hovind brings up only a few but again I'm referencing his points regarding "The Big Bang" as origin of the Universe and Evolution as the vehicle of all life species.  

 

If the Wikipedia page picturing various skulls and such is sufficient to convince you or others that there is an interconnecting pattern and you believe these are incremental evidence of evolution from one species to another that is reflecting upon what you consider sufficient, in order to satisfy your minds.  AS for me I still contend it is very lacking, insufficient, and highly speculative.  

 

One distinct difference between many Christian's statements and many of those who advocate Evolution is I do not personally see the Christian attacking the person who chooses to believe in Evolution and base that upon their intelligence or mental capacities but rather they present reasons that they remain opposed to the argument and that specific theory itself.  I don't attempt to justify my position by advocating that anyone who believes differently is deficient in mental faculties or mental capabilities.  Those type statements, with regards to those who chose to believe in Creation, reflects much more a judgmental, biased, predisposition rather than actual reasoning and material to support and reinforce their chosen position of belief and is more a reliance upon weakness than in strength.  In other words since the other person's theory or belief cannot be disproven with ample evidence and sufficient undeniable proof then an alternative approach is chosen to try and diminish the argument by attacking and demeaning the advocates of the position you disagree with.

 

Again I state that my opposition to Evolution, as the vehicle of all life, is not as much based in my religion.  My belief in Creationism, as in God created (was the intelligence behind the creative process whatever methods and ways that encompasses) is of course related to Religion and my belief in God.  I see no inconsistency in acceptance of God as Creator and the inability to adequately conceive and understand the exact process by which the Universe and all Creation, including life, became and is maintained. I don't propose to advocate the method by which God chose to establish the Universe nor do I have to understand His method and process of the development of Life and the various species.   

 
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
 

Mr. Hovind's law problems are centered around his opposition and refusal to pay Income Taxes.  As to tagging him as a liar or inferring that anything related to taxes also applies to his doctrines is a stretch. 

 

He was convicted of tax fraud.  By definition that makes him a liar.  I guess he also forgot the part about rendering unto Caesar. 

..........

 

  I still see no plausible explanations of how life comes from non-life, how complex intelligence comes from a singular, unintelligent and undirected process that has never been replicated or can be but remains in the realm of speculation, ideas, hypothesis and theory.  How does one get from a singularity leading to all living species yet fails to address reproduction as a method for populating each species.  There are many questions that remain unaddressed and unanswered.

 

Just Google it.  Or go to the UNA bookstore and buy a decent college level Biology book.  It's there if you will actually look at it.

 

 

If the Wikipedia page picturing various skulls and such is sufficient to convince you or others that there is an interconnecting pattern and you believe these are incremental evidence of evolution from one species to another that is reflecting upon what you consider sufficient, in order to satisfy your minds.  AS for me I still contend it is very lacking, insufficient, and highly speculative.  

 

That alone isn't sufficient.  I presented that to answer Bill's purposefully deceitful pronouncement that there is no missing link.  That site provided ample evidence of transitory fossils.  Everything in biology, including genetics, microbiology, zoology and palaeontology, along with non-biological fields such as geology and physics supports both a universe billions of years old and evolution.  Thousands of scientists work in these fields every day, and the mountains of evidence continue to pile up.

 

...........

 

Again I state that my opposition to Evolution, as the vehicle of all life, is not as much based in my religion.  My belief in Creationism, as in God created (was the intelligence behind the creative process whatever methods and ways that encompasses) is of course related to Religion and my belief in God.  I see no inconsistency in acceptance of God as Creator and the inability to adequately conceive and understand the exact process by which the Universe and all Creation, including life, became and is maintained. I don't propose to advocate the method by which God chose to establish the Universe nor do I have to understand His method and process of the development of Life and the various species.   

 

So you are saying ignorance is bliss.  Okay, have at it.

 

Hi Crusty,

 

So, the god you worship is not big enough to inspire men to write exactly what HE WANTED written?  And the god you worship is not big enough to protect what He has inspired men to write?   Gee, my Friend, your god is a pretty small god.

 

On the other hand, my God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent (all places present).  My God is preexisting -- no beginning and no ending -- from eternity to eternity.  My God is the Almighty God.

 

Tell us about your god.   What do you know about him?  And, when and where do you worship him?   Do you pray to your god?  Has he ever answered a prayer for you?

 

If you answer no to these question -- we must suspect that you are worshiping the wrong god or gods.l

 

By the way, Moses wrote Genesis, along with the other four books of Torah - Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). 

 

The Torah (Written Law): An Overview

Jewish Virtual Library

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...The_Written_Law.html

 

The Torah, or Jewish Written Law, consists of the five books of the Hebrew Bible - known more commonly to non-Jews as the "Old Testament" - that were given by G-d to Moses on Mount Sinai and include within them all of the biblical laws of Judaism. The Torah is also known as the Chumash, Pentateuch, or Five Books of Moses.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

But, hey, my Friend -- if you want to tell God He is wrong, that He did not write the Bible -- that it is only a book thrown together from the scribblings of itinerant sheep herders -- that is your choice. 

 

But, my Friend, as Joshua told the Israelites, and as we Christians are telling you non-believers today,

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD"  (Joshua 24:15).

 

But, let me leave you with one last thought.   Charley Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and none of the rest of your worldly god can give you eternal life.  To gain eternal life -- one MUST turn to God, through Jesus Christ (John 14:6) -- none other.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c

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Nice try on twisting what I said.  I'm not telling God anything, I'm telling you.  But using your tactic, your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies and scientific inaccuracies.  I would never assign to God a text so flawed, so obviously written by man, and which has blatant scientific inaccuracies.  You idolize the Bible, not God.  I am sorry for you.  Please get a de-programmer, I'm concerned for your well being, as you may be drinking the Kool-Aid next.

quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Nice try on twisting what I said.  I'm not telling God anything, I'm telling you.  But using your tactic, your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies and scientific inaccuracies.  I would never assign to God a text so flawed, so obviously written by man, and which has blatant scientific inaccuracies.  You idolize the Bible, not God.  I am sorry for you.  Please get a de-programmer, I'm concerned for your well being, as you may be drinking the Kool-Aid next.


Hi to all my Christian Friends,

 

Here you have it on the authority of Crusty, who personally affirms his own Christian faith -- that the Bible is a worthless book, just a bunch of flawed text. 

 

Crusty tells us, "I would never assign to God a text so flawed."

 

Yet, God tells us, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

 

Crusty tells us, "The Bible is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

 

Yet, Jesus tells us, in John 10:35 ". . . and the Scripture cannot be broken."

 

Crusty tells us, "Your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

 

But, the apostle John tells us, in John 20:30-31, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."


Now, my Christian Friends, we have a dilemma.  Whom shall we believe -- God, the Bible, Jesus Christ, the apostle John?  Or shall we believe our Christian Friend, Crusty, who, by the way, refuses to go to church?

 

Personally, I believe I will follow what Joshua tells the Israelites, and us, iJoshua 24:15, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

Crusty, my Friend, thank you for clearing up this issue of the Bible and God for us.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

2 Timothy 2-15

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Doesn't seem to have done you any good to read that book for all the years you claim you've read it, go to all the "bible studies" you claim to go to, or go to church as you claim you do. How do we know YOU go to church?  And, after all your claims you still can't explain all the contradictions in that book you say is your god's "word'.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Nice try on twisting what I said.  I'm not telling God anything, I'm telling you.  But using your tactic, your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies and scientific inaccuracies.  I would never assign to God a text so flawed, so obviously written by man, and which has blatant scientific inaccuracies.  You idolize the Bible, not God.  I am sorry for you.  Please get a de-programmer, I'm concerned for your well being, as you may be drinking the Kool-Aid next.


Hi to all my Christian Friends,

 

Here you have it on the authority of Crusty, who personally affirms his own Christian faith -- that the Bible is a worthless book, just a bunch of flawed text. 

 

Crusty tells us, "I would never assign to God a text so flawed."

 

Yet, God tells us, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

 

Crusty tells us, "The Bible is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

 

Yet, Jesus tells us, in John 10:35 ". . . and the Scripture cannot be broken."

 

Crusty tells us, "Your god is so pitiful, all he could come up with is a flawed text, full of inconsistencies."

 

But, the apostle John tells us, in John 20:30-31, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."


Now, my Christian Friends, we have a dilemma.  Whom shall we believe -- God, the Bible, Jesus Christ, the apostle John?  Or shall we believe our Christian Friend, Crusty, who, by the way, refuses to go to church?

 

Personally, I believe I will follow what Joshua tells the Israelites, and us, iJoshua 24:15, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

Crusty, my Friend, thank you for clearing up this issue of the Bible and God for us.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_______________

Bless your pea-picking little heart, Bill.  I never said the Bible was worthless, but it wasn't written by God, and it isn't to be taken literally.  Your worship of the Bible is known as bibliolatry.  What does the Bible say about those that worship idols? 

 

You ask who should we believe.  I say you can believe all, the Bible, Jesus, and God.  Most Christians do.  But most Christians understand that the story in Genesis - written by multiple authors, by the way, Bill - is an allegory.  To use your strategy, who are we to believe, fundamentalist wacko Bill, or St. Thomas Aquinas?  Who is the better authority?

 

I know it really galls you that I don't go to church.  The only time Jesus went to church as an adult was to do some whoop-ass on the money changers.  I don't need bureaucracy to have a relationship with God, and I don't need to show off in front of the self-righteous Bill Grays in the world to have a relationship with God. 

 

Finally, what does John have to do with this discussion?  You've dropped back into your street corner evangelist mode again, Bill.  Please have Dory give you your meds.

quote:   Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

Doesn't seem to have done you any good to read that book for all the years you claim you've read it, go to all the "bible studies" you claim to go to, or go to church as you claim you do. How do we know YOU go to church?  And, after all your claims you still can't explain all the contradictions in that book you say is your god's "word'.


Hi Jennifer,

 

You are right.  How can you KNOW if Bill Gray is a Christian or not?  I have one suggestion of how you can KNOW for sure.   You become a Christian believer -- and, then, when we meet in heaven one day -- YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE!   And, at the same time, you will have saved yourself.

 

Now, that is absolutely a WIN-WIN suggestion.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 Thessalonians 5-10

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quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
I know it really galls you that I don't go to church.  The only time Jesus went to church as an adult was to do some whoop-ass on the money changers.  I don't need bureaucracy to have a relationship with God, and I don't need to show off in front of the self-righteous Bill Grays in the world to have a relationship with God.

Hi Crusty,

 

There was a time, before I was a Christian believer -- when I sat with a Christian Friend and his pastor for two hours -- trying to tell them that I did not have to go to church to be a Christian.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Of course, at that time I was NOT a Christian -- so, how would I know what a Christian should or should not do?

 

Yep, old Friend, a wee bit of deja vu -- isn't it?

 

But, keep on saying it -- and maybe one day you will really might believe it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Six Strong Men

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Hi Jennifer, You are right. How can you KNOW if Bill Gray is a Christian or not? I have one suggestion of how you can KNOW for sure. You become a Christian believer -- and, then, when we meet in heaven one day -- YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE! And, at the same time, you will have saved yourself.

 

-------------------

 

Although I didn't mention it I know you say you're a christian. What I basically "said" was that we  had no proof you went to church, just your word, and we all know your word is no good. I have no intentions in ever being a "christian believer" again. Been there, done that, glad I'm out. I don't want to meet you anywhere, and there is nothing I need to be "saved" from.

quote:  Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:
Although I didn't mention it I know you say you're a christian. What I basically "said" was that we  had no proof you went to church, just your word, and we all know your word is no good. I have no intentions in ever being a "christian believer" again. Been there, done that, glad I'm out. I don't want to meet you anywhere, and there is nothing I need to be "saved" from.

Hi Jennifer,

 

Isn't that what the captain of the Titanic said -- before. . . ?   Just a thought!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hmmmmmmmm, well reports may not agree with each other about what capt smith said, but none of the reports have him mentioning your name. Of course knowing you, you'll claim you were there and tried to tell them they were going to hit the iceberg. That is right after you held a revival meeting and converted everyone. You just get sillier and sillier, have you had a stroke?

----------------------------

Last words of captain smith?:

 

Reports include "Be British Boys, Be British!", "Every Man for Himself!" or, after supposedly delivering a baby to a lifeboat, he refused to be brought aboard, saying "Good-Bye Boys, I'm going to follow the ship!"

gb, Kent Hovind is a Young Earth Creationist (or he claims to be), including a literal six-day Creation.

 

Only a fool would entertain him.  Every point of his pseudo science has been refuted to the satisfaction of any reasonable mind.

 

I invite you to recite one... one... point of his "science" that stands to reason.  Just one.  Please do it now.

 

The man is a fraud and made a living (his son continues in his vein) raping the muddled intellects of those afflicted with superstition and ignorance. 

 

However, I encourage you to keep Kent Hovind's legacy alive.  He is the best argument atheism has.  Anyone who believes his BS is not worth considering in any sort of honest discussion.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

Of course, at that time I was NOT a Christian -- so, how would I know what a Christian should or should not do?

Bill

 

___________________________

You're still not a Christian, just a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to convince the good people here of your lies. Most of us see you for the liar you are.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

There was a time, before I was a Christian believer -- when I sat with a Christian Friend and his pastor for two hours -- trying to tell them that I did not have to go to church to be a Christian.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Of course, at that time I was NOT a Christian -- so, how would I know what a Christian should or should not do?

 

Yep, old Friend, a wee bit of deja vu -- isn't it?

 

But, keep on saying it -- and maybe one day you will really might believe it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

________________

No, it doesn't sound familiar at all.  I have a relationship with God.  You have a relationship with the Bible.  It is such a sad relationship since something as basic and undeniable as a universe that is billions of years old can destroy it.  Truth can't hurt me, my faith, or my relationship with God. 

quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

When Bill has nothing constructive to say - which is almost always - he posts an insulting picture.


Crusty, my Friend,

 

Now, let's be fair.  I don't mind taking credit when credit is due -- but, I really do not want to steal Jennifer's thunder.  The photo of you in a red shirt comes from Jennifer, not me.   We do not want to cheat our Friend.  Let's give her full artistic credit.  She deserves it!

 

Bless y'all's heart!

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

Dont-Run-From-God

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No bill, the picture of the man in the red shirt does not "represent" crusty. Let me clear that up in case there is even one person who would, by any stretch of their imagination, think it was him. Crusty, if he intends to insult he's going to have go do a whole lot better than he's done so far. All he does now is date himself badly with references to old things only he thinks are funny.  BTW bill, here's the Lone Ranger and Tonto. And Tonto without the paint, the Lone Ranger without the mask, yum!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

When Bill has nothing constructive to say - which is almost always - he posts an insulting picture.


Crusty, my Friend,

 

Now, let's be fair.  I don't mind taking credit when credit is due -- but, I really do not want to steal Jennifer's thunder.  The photo of you in a red shirt comes from Jennifer, not me.   We do not want to cheat our Friend.  Let's give her full artistic credit.  She deserves it!

 

Bless y'all's heart!

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

 

____________________________

You are a riot, Bill.  Thanks for proving my point.

Crusty,

 

Now see what you have done?  You even have Jennifer worried about having six carry you into the church.  Of course, she sees you as much colder than I do.  Actually, I believe that somewhere way down beneath that Crust, there is a heart, and a wee fire, which still is seeking God -- even though you cannot admit it. 

 

Not to worry.  We will keep you in prayer.  And, since Jennifer has shown her concern for you -- maybe she will join us in praying for you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Poor old thing still trying to spin things his way. Now why in the world would crusty have jennifer worried?  It would be very interesting if you'd explain why you try to make a cartoon of a snowman's "funeral" somehow have something to do with crusty. While you're at it explain why you try to make everything about crusty, me or semi. You seem to be losing it more and more. Is there no one around you that could help you? It seems you need a change of location so you can get out into the real world and maybe meet some different people. Then you'd find out you're just not special.

Back in the 70s I read an article in the Atlantic magazine by a MIT professor that speculated life as we know it is not like a computer, it is a computer, and by extrapolation that would lead us to further speculation that we are in fact the data being processed. The believers here seems to be asserting that the babble should be taken as the operating system of our existence...if so that operating system is desperately in need of an upgrade. Keeping it around after it has obviously outlived it's usefulness is like trying to compute using DOS.
quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Back in the 70s I read an article in the Atlantic magazine by a MIT professor that speculated life as we know it is not like a computer, it is a computer, and by extrapolation that would lead us to further speculation that we are in fact the data being processed. The believers here seems to be asserting that the babble should be taken as the operating system of our existence...if so that operating system is desperately in need of an upgrade. Keeping it around after it has obviously outlived it's usefulness is like trying to compute using DOS.

Hi Senior,

 

In a sense, I suppose you can look at God's Word in that way -- the Operating System of Life, guiding us, pointing us in the right direction, giving us the support and resources we need to be the best we can be. 

 

But, I would compare it to a combined Operating System and AntiVirus/Internet Security System.  It not only is in control of everything we do -- it also protects us from being infected with the False Teacher Virus, it has the Family Protection Option, it prevents Identity Theft, and it stops the cults from planting their infectious Cookies of Destruction within us.

 

My Friend, thank you for that right on analogy.  Have you checked to see if you have downloaded all of your Operating System Updates lately.  After all, you do not want to be running on DOS when you should be running on Windows 10 WOG (Word of God).

 

And, it seems that you have not downloaded your WOG Antivirus/Internet Security cult/false religion updates in a long time.  You DO know it is very dangerous to be running on an outdated system -- don't you?

 

So, my Friend, why not stop right now, listen at the door of your heart where He is knocking (Rev 3:20) -- open that door and start getting the latest updates and downloads -- while there is still time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Jesus Like A Computer

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  • Jesus Like A Computer
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Crusty,

 

Now see what you have done?  You even have Jennifer worried about having six carry you into the church.  Of course, she sees you as much colder than I do.  Actually, I believe that somewhere way down beneath that Crust, there is a heart, and a wee fire, which still is seeking God -- even though you cannot admit it. 

 

Not to worry.  We will keep you in prayer.  And, since Jennifer has shown her concern for you -- maybe she will join us in praying for you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

_________________

Large heart. Found God.  You were obviously looking in the mirror when you posted this.

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