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Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Make time for great justice.  Expect us.

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Hi all,

 

If, by some miracle, God took the words:  LIAR, STUPID, IGNORANT, and a few others which our atheist Friends depend upon so much to be able to communicate -- out of their vocabulary -- our atheist Friends would be tongue-tied, totally helpless to carry on a dialogue.   Poor things.  All we could do is to ask them, "Did the cat get your tongue?"

 

Bless your little old atheist hearts.

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

CatGotYourTongue-1

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Hi all,

 

If, by some miracle, God took the words:  LIAR, STUPID, IGNORANT, and a few others which our atheist Friends depend upon so much to be able to communicate -- out of their vocabulary -- our atheist Friends would be tongue-tied, totally helpless to carry on a dialogue.   Poor things.  All we could do is to ask them, "Did the cat get your tongue?"


----------------------------------------------


Without people like you there'd be no need for those words.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  

 

DF

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As an *Enlightened Man*, have you ever considered that the people for which the books of the Bible were written were not so *erudite* as you think you are? Did you ever consider that those books might have been written so that people not so *erudite* as you think you are could understand them?  

 

If this * Enlightenment* persists for another 2000 years, how primitive do you think your own writings will seem? 

I'm amazed that 'believers' want this country to be run on the Ten Commandmants. The first 4 are basically redundant. The only one that is criminal in all cases is about murder which the buybull itself ignores on countless occasions. The one about lying is only criminal when the lie is to the police or perjury in a court of law. Yet, this is the one most commonly ignored by the 'faithful' who will lie with the best of them to attain their 'ends'. They also lie by 'omission' when cherry picking the passages of the bible that will suit their ends. They also lie about this country being founded as a 'christain' nation and use cehrry picked letters from the founding fathers to 'prove' their points.

 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Such Hypocrisy and the utmost Arrogance is demonstrated in your post here.  You chide Christians and Believers for doing, in effect, just the same thing that you are doing only where Christians/Believers make their statements based upon their own reasons (Their Belief in God) you make your equally unprovable and faith based (all be it faith in a non-divine direction/source) yet because you have such a high opinion of yourself you set yourself up as infallible and beyond reproach (at least in your own mind).  

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.  Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

From my own perspective I will grant that Evolution, by it's own nature, is certainly a non-intelligent process for evidently it takes no thinking or intelligence to accept it but rather just blind allegiance and acceptance that life comes from an accidental arrangement of elements.  Never mind that none of it can be reproduced or that absolute proof can be provided that life comes from non-life and one species comes from other species we are just to accept it on someone's own word or accept their own bias and their own beliefs as our own and be prohibited from challenging it.  You have very well demonstrated the prejudiced opinions feelings toward people of any other opinion, other than evolution.  If someone doesn't believe lock step with you then they are either mentally deficient or they are lying.  Does your own arrogance know any bounds?  I present that your apparent arrogance in this area is only exceeded by your unrealistic haughty opinion of your own personal abilities.

 

At least there is benefit in your post though.  You are neither correct or unique in your bias and prejudice toward believers and Christians for there are many that came before you and they discovered that they were just as fallible and human as everyone else, in the end.  I hate to break it to you but your "superiority" and godlike infallibility is principally within your own mind and you only demonstrate the validity and wisdom of those who spoke and put their recordings down thousands of years before you were a thought in anyone's mind.

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (NLT)
{18} The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
{19} As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
{20} So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.
{21} Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.
{22} It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom.
{23} So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
{24} But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
{25} This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
{26} Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.
{27} Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.
{28} God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.
{29} As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
{30} God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.
{31} Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”

and

 

Romans 1:18-23 (HCSB)
{18} For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
{19} since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
{20} From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
{21} For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
{22} Claiming to be wise, they became fools
{23} and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

and finally

 

1 Corinthians 3:18-21 (ESV)
{18} Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
{19} For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
{20} and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
{21} So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours,

 

Your demonstration of Pride and Arrogance are nothing new for there have been those claiming the same thing, essentially, throughout history and God's word addresses those today as it did in those days only if people could see past their own biases and prejudice to yield to it's wisdom.  At least in your post did you not only present your opinion but you  sufficiently provided example as well that Pride still controls mortal man in thinking themselves to be something they are not.

 

 

 

 

I feel sorry for the ones that are still so mired down by superstition and lies. Many of them can't seem to see any value at all in the world without their make believe sky daddy. Most of them seem to think that if they did not have this lie to believe in their own self worth and existence would be moot. To me that is very very sad. What makes me sometimes angry is that those same people aren't happy just believing in this fairy tale for themselves. They insist we all live as if it were true. I have heard over and over that they don't care if I believe or not. However, I find that to be only lip service. If that were true then we would not see so many believers trying to enact laws that are based on their fanciful superstition.

 

When I read about the things that have been said and done to the 16 year old little girl in RI for standing up for the Constitution, I see that Christians know their belief is a weak stance (at best) otherwise why would they bully a child.

 

I too think that most of them know its not true yet they continue to perpetuated the lie. For money, to fit in, for power, and maybe for some, fear. Maybe that (fear) is why gbrk can't seem to grasp the evidence backing evolution. Who knows...

 

Hopefully the next generation will have evolved past this need to cling to lies and superstition. I meet so many young people these days that just laugh at it. We owe it to them, and those that will come after them, to pave the way for a brighter more reasoned future.

 

Out of the dark ages and into the light!!!!

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

 

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.

 

That sir is a lie. Maybe you don't know its a lie, so you should educate yourself before you say it again.

 

 Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

 

 Please present your SCIENTIFIC evidence to support Creationism or Intelligent Design. You are not allowed to use the bible because it is not a science book. I will be waiting. There have been several attempts at proving ID as science in the past, all have failed. Most recently the Dover, PA case before the Supreme Court. I found that this statement by Judge Jones sums you up pretty good when it comes to this discussion:.

 

“It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.”

 

.

 

 

 

 

I so much enjoy it when people speak with authority over something that is unknowable.

How did life start?  Who knows.  Apparently it did.

How was the universe created?  Who knows.  Again, apparently it was.

Beyond that, you can't KNOW anything...you can assume, believe, hope, want, dream or even pray.  But you can't know with absolute certainty.

Hi Mark,

 

Sorry, my Friend, but those questions have been answered for us -- very clearly.   All one has to do is to read Genesis to find all those answers.

 

Of course, there are those who will pooh-pooh this, denying that truth.   I suppose those same folks would deny that the Civil War did not really occur -- because they did not personally witness it.   Just like we can all visit history books to believe the Civil War did occur, we can also visit the Bible to know that God, Jesus Christ, and the Creation are real. 

 

You want to visit the Shiloh battlefield, take a short drive into Tennessee.  You want to visit the Christian Shiloh battlefield -- take a trip to the Holy Land.

 

My Friend, you hung with Deep too often.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Mark12A:

I so much enjoy it when people speak with authority over something that is unknowable.

How did life start?  Who knows.  Apparently it did.

How was the universe created?  Who knows.  Again, apparently it was.

Beyond that, you can't KNOW anything...you can assume, believe, hope, want, dream or even pray.  But you can't know with absolute certainty.

--------------------------

So correct. I've posted it often, I listen to all the theories, discard some immediately, put the others that sound promising on a "wait and see" where it goes list.

Sorry, Bill.  I'm not your friend.  Regardless of what the hymn says about "...take me as I am..." you have proven to be one of the most incorrigibly bigoted individuals I have ever had contact with.  Combine that with the loving, caring facade you put on you and, well, you're an indictment of modern christianity beyond any that I can imagine.

You are one of those about whom I refer...speaking with authority on an unknowable subject.  You read what has been translated from early writings and vomit it back at everyone within earshot as being the Single Truth.  It's okay if you believe it.  Just don't get excited when a lot of people don't go along with it.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

 

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.

 

That sir is a lie. Maybe you don't know its a lie, so you should educate yourself before you say it again.

 

And that statement is a subjective opinion not based or supported by facts either.  You and/or others state that Evolution has evidence to prove it and I am stating that those who adhere to and believe in Creation or Intelligent Design also claim evidence as well.  Evidence is only sufficient to those who consider it valid.  One person looks at one group of evidence in one way while another sees no connection of that evidence to the hypothesis that the evidence is supposed to support and verify.  Like it or not Evolution, as the source of life and how things got here IS a THEORY!  It's not dogmatic fact, it is opinion of many but just as many believe we got here at the design of some Intelligence or deity and they have just as convincing evidence, to them, in order to support the basis of their belief and opinion.  

 

 

 

 Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

 

 Please present your SCIENTIFIC evidence to support Creationism or Intelligent Design. You are not allowed to use the bible because it is not a science book. I will be waiting. There have been several attempts at proving ID as science in the past, all have failed. Most recently the Dover, PA case before the Supreme Court. I found that this statement by Judge Jones sums you up pretty good when it comes to this discussion:.

 

As I have said what is acceptable or sufficient evidence or one is subjective for another.  You state to leave the Bible out but the Bible is a FACTUAL part of History and historical record.  You do not have anything that counters it so it's just as valid for someone to use as it is any other source.  Just because you don't accept to believe it doesn't make it invalid so the Bible should be just as viable for use as anything else and the Bible is for many viable and acceptable as evidence.   

 

http://www.icr.org/article/sum...idence-for-creation/

http://www.answersingenesis.or...22/n1/creation-proof

http://www.creationevidence.org/

http://www.icr.org/evidence/

http://www.allaboutcreation.org/creation-evidence.htm

http://www.godandscience.org/a...getics/creation.html

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/creation.html

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm

 

“It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.


And just what is that "real purpose"?   Both are theories for people to ponder and accept or reject but only ONE side want's to totally control the debate, only ONE side wants to exclude the other and ONLY ONE SIDE belittles the other views advocates and goes as far as attempting to discredit them and remove them from any chance at employment.  Evolution does not want to allow freedom of choice they want to dictate what people have to believe and at all cost attack and impugn anyone of conflicting thought and belief.   Evolution, as a source for life is deficient of supporting evidence.  Evolution is void of actual incremental transitional occurrences to analyze and view.  Evolution, as a source of life requires that the person accept it on face value that you take bones, fossils or other evidence and make it conform to an opinion and desire of those who have a profound bias of seeing that it does conform to that desired outcome.  Evolution is void of any evidence of how a living thing can come from a non-living thing and it cannot be reproduced.  Evolution is simply VOID of FACT as the source of creation and life.  That is a fact.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 
Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  

 

DF

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As an *Enlightened Man*, have you ever considered that the people for which the books of the Bible were written were not so *erudite* as you think you are? Did you ever consider that those books might have been written so that people not so *erudite* as you think you are could understand them?  

 

If this * Enlightenment* persists for another 2000 years, how primitive do you think your own writings will seem? 

I can only hope, and trust, that my feeble scribblings, poignant as they are here and now, will be eclipsed by an even more concrete founding in reason, science, and humanistic morality.

 

Df

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

__________________________________________________________________________

We don't. But neither do we feel the need to prove to everyone how we have such "diverse knowledges", nor do we have to talk about how our "feeble scribblings" are so "poignant".

You see, the difference is our self-confidence is merely a fact of life. We don't feel the need to crow about it to everyone else. Our accomplishments, rather than being cause for PRIDE, are cause for GRATITUDE. Gratitude to the Lord who gave us all the tools we need to accomplish the things we do.

 

And it has been proven in scientific studies that GRATITUDE leads to a happier life. Self-aggrandizement, on the other hand, is a sign of UNDERconfidence. When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

Atheists like this DO worship their own intellect. They place their intellect at the top of the list of things that are important to them. They think a high IQ is what elevates them above "average" people. They think it makes them better than "average" people.

 

Christians with a high IQ know that that IQ is a gift from God, and rather than using it to make themselves feel better than others, they USE this gift from God to HELP others, as our Lord directs us to. So instead of having a chip on our shoulders, wondering why we are surrounded by "idiots", we have love and gratitude in our hearts, and wonder why we are surrounded by people less fortunate than ourselves, and we put that IQ into action to make their lives better.

 

It gives us SO much more peace and happiness than the one who keeps crying, "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

 

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

O, worship is the failure of the enslaved.  I worship my self no more or less than anyone or anything else, i.e. not at all.

 

Break out of your superstitious shell.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by daddy joe:

You are a sad little man.... I feel sorry for you.

Thanks.  I'm neither sad nor little, in any fashion.  I am happy and large in my diverse knowledges.

 

DF

____________________________________________________________________________

Ah yes, this is the man who denies worshipping HIMSELF. What do you all think?

 

O, worship is the failure of the enslaved.  I worship my self no more or less than anyone or anything else, i.e. not at all.

 

Break out of your superstitious shell.

 

DF

__________________________________________________________________________

As I said,  Self-aggrandizement, on the other hand, is a sign of UNDERconfidence. When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

And denial is just another part of the "syndrome".

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Self confidence and self awareness = worshiping ones self? I know that most Christians have this guilt complex and are constantly being told (and believe) that they are somehow sinful and not worthy of their Gods love. I had no idea you were not supposed to even be happy and knowledgeable either. I guess it all just goes hand in hand though.

 

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

DA, how difficult is it to believe that we are humans who have reason to enjoy our existence?  Or consciousness, or joys and even pains?  Why do some people need gods for this?
We were the ones who invented the gods.  We endowed them with wisdom and morality.  We invested them with powers, now known to be natural.

 

Life is a gift from the Universe.  It's rare and to be enjoyed and explored in human terms.  The best of such terms are those or reason and an entirely human invention, science.  The worst of those terms is an ancient superstition that sufficed to answer unanswerable questions in our primitive ignorance.

 

DA, we have won.  Most of the answers to the ancient questions have been found.  We now know why we get sick, why we die, how we are born, why the plant bloom in the Spring, why the tides roll in and out.  As a result of this knowledge, we can surmise that the remaining mysteries are natural in their explanations.  The origin of the universe and the life within it do not require a god, indeed god gets in the way.

 

We win.  They fail.  There are many yet to be convinced, and as long as there are uncritical minds there will always be some convincing to do, but the intelligent, critical element of our constituency has progressed beyond Bronze Age superstition.  We revel in the knowledge we have been able to accumulate in the Post Religious Age, and we glory in the knowledge yet to be won.  We even respect our remaining ignorances, of which there are many, but we do not give in to the corrosive idea that god is responsible for them.

 

It's a slow process, and we will not live to see all the fruits of our efforts, but we must do our best in the here and now, for the future betterment of not only our species but for the planet for which we have become responsible.  The denial and rejection of religious superstition is inevitable, unless that evil notion leads to our demise through intolerant warfare.  Especially if the Parties of God choose to use WMDs. 

 

How better, one might ask, to bring about the prophesied End of Days?

 

DF

There is so much in life to be happy about, and if you are self confident and have accomplished goals, to be proud of yourself for. Why do so many Christians deny themselves happiness and self worth?

------------------------

Could be worse, They could all think they're "hot stuff" like a lot of them do. So smug, so, well what's that word? Oh yes-"special". Remember "church lady"? I think we make a lot of them feel inferior. We don't chase happiness, we have it already. They aren't happy, they can't be happy, so what they have to do to even feel half way "special" is to tear others down. They remind me of something I read a long time ago, no idea if it's even true, but the man said there was no need to put a top on a basket full of crabs. The reason? He said because if one of the crabs started climbing up the basket to escape, another one would reach up and pull them back down.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

Not sure if my previous post on this topic took.

 

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

 

Six day Creation.  This is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of common sense, reason, and science.  It's a lie.  Not an alternative truth, but a ****able lie.

 

Original Sin.  Another lie.  Given the Adam and Eve story, God made humans imperfect, and has punished us ever since.  Not given the story, there was no Adam and Eve, as we all know.  Either way, Christians cannot come to the truth of the issue that we are necessarily imperfect, whatever the consequences may be.  Forgiveness for the inevitable is ludicrous.

 

And the Big One.  Evolution.  As much a fact as gravity, yet denied by those who prefer, to the point of political persuasion, a lie that says we were magically poofed into creation within a literal week.  Of course, those who sincerely believe this are imbeciles, and those who perpetuate this belief are dishonest hucksters.  Shame on them both.

 

Shall we accuse those who insist, who "know", that there are gods and hells of lying.  It's about time we did.  They do not know.  They surmise, they assert, they pretend, they prevaricate.  But they do not know.  We are of such philosophical accomplishment now that we have some inkling of what it means to "know", and their superstitions do not qualify as knowledge.  This said, I do not accuse the rank and file

Christians of deliberate dishonesty, but their leaders... yes, of course.  They know that they mislead the sheep for their own benefit.*

 

This is just the beginning of Christian dishonesty.  The most dishonest among them are those who claim to defend Christianity (and all religion) on grounds of reason.  I accuse Wm. Lane Craig, Ken Ham, Kyle Butt, the Hovind Family,  the Ian Juby's of the world of deliberate dishonesty.

 

Fred Phelps is not dishonest, he makes no claim to reason and sticks to his "holy" book.  I have no respect for his honesty, however, as it is an uncritical honesty.  If one honestly believes in Mother Goose, for another example, his is an unrespectable honesty, same as Phelps'.

 

Jesus hates abortion?  Lie!  What Jesus hated was divorce.  Someone tell Newt Gingrich. 

Jesus was the epitome of love?  Lie!  Jesus invented Hell.

 

Stop the lying.

 

DF

Such Hypocrisy and the utmost Arrogance is demonstrated in your post here.  You chide Christians and Believers for doing, in effect, just the same thing that you are doing only where Christians/Believers make their statements based upon their own reasons (Their Belief in God) you make your equally unprovable and faith based (all be it faith in a non-divine direction/source) yet because you have such a high opinion of yourself you set yourself up as infallible and beyond reproach (at least in your own mind).  

 

You make statements of opinion based upon theories, such as evolution, which are no more absolute and provable than those of Creation.  Both Creation and Evolution claim to have evidence yet the evidence is only as good and sufficient as those who interpret it and always that interpretation is with a bias so when it all comes down to it they are equal in that they are unprovable theories.  Here though we have demonstrated the arrogance that permeates the Scientific and educational communicates that eliminates and excludes all other theories from being presented and taught.  The First Amendment is, again wrongly, used to keep Creation from being presented as a viable alternative, with it's own points and merits, as well as Intelligent Design.  

 

From my own perspective I will grant that Evolution, by it's own nature, is certainly a non-intelligent process for evidently it takes no thinking or intelligence to accept it but rather just blind allegiance and acceptance that life comes from an accidental arrangement of elements.  Never mind that none of it can be reproduced or that absolute proof can be provided that life comes from non-life and one species comes from other species we are just to accept it on someone's own word or accept their own bias and their own beliefs as our own and be prohibited from challenging it.  You have very well demonstrated the prejudiced opinions feelings toward people of any other opinion, other than evolution.  If someone doesn't believe lock step with you then they are either mentally deficient or they are lying.  Does your own arrogance know any bounds?  I present that your apparent arrogance in this area is only exceeded by your unrealistic haughty opinion of your own personal abilities.

 

At least there is benefit in your post though.  You are neither correct or unique in your bias and prejudice toward believers and Christians for there are many that came before you and they discovered that they were just as fallible and human as everyone else, in the end.  I hate to break it to you but your "superiority" and godlike infallibility is principally within your own mind and you only demonstrate the validity and wisdom of those who spoke and put their recordings down thousands of years before you were a thought in anyone's mind.

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (NLT)
{18} The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
{19} As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
{20} So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.
{21} Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.
{22} It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom.
{23} So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
{24} But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
{25} This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
{26} Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.
{27} Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.
{28} God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.
{29} As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
{30} God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin.
{31} Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”

and

 

Romans 1:18-23 (HCSB)
{18} For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
{19} since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
{20} From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
{21} For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
{22} Claiming to be wise, they became fools
{23} and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.

and finally

 

1 Corinthians 3:18-21 (ESV)
{18} Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
{19} For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
{20} and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
{21} So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours,

 

Your demonstration of Pride and Arrogance are nothing new for there have been those claiming the same thing, essentially, throughout history and God's word addresses those today as it did in those days only if people could see past their own biases and prejudice to yield to it's wisdom.  At least in your post did you not only present your opinion but you  sufficiently provided example as well that Pride still controls mortal man in thinking themselves to be something they are not.

 

 

 

 

Man! I have just got to say a BIG Amen! Great post!

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

I feel sorry for the ones that are still so mired down by superstition and lies. Many of them can't seem to see any value at all in the world without their make believe sky daddy. Most of them seem to think that if they did not have this lie to believe in their own self worth and existence would be moot. To me that is very very sad. What makes me sometimes angry is that those same people aren't happy just believing in this fairy tale for themselves. They insist we all live as if it were true. I have heard over and over that they don't care if I believe or not. However, I find that to be only lip service. If that were true then we would not see so many believers trying to enact laws that are based on their fanciful superstition.

 

When I read about the things that have been said and done to the 16 year old little girl in RI for standing up for the Constitution, I see that Christians know their belief is a weak stance (at best) otherwise why would they bully a child.

 

I too think that most of them know its not true yet they continue to perpetuated the lie. For money, to fit in, for power, and maybe for some, fear. Maybe that (fear) is why gbrk can't seem to grasp the evidence backing evolution. Who knows...

 

Hopefully the next generation will have evolved past this need to cling to lies and superstition. I meet so many young people these days that just laugh at it. We owe it to them, and those that will come after them, to pave the way for a brighter more reasoned future.

 

Out of the dark ages and into the light!!!!

What is bugging you is not Christians but your struggle with good and evil. Darkness is attempting to retain control over your soul and God is continuing to offer you a way to the light.You will choose one over the other just as we all will.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

DF


_____________________

Be careful what you post. I caught Bill in a lie, he wanted proof, so I gave it to him in a topic of it's own. No way for him to get out of it as there it was, in black & white. Guess what?.......my topic was deleted the same day, & I received a warning. Expect to see me banned any day now.

Originally Posted by O No!:
But neither do we feel the need to prove to everyone how we have such "diverse knowledges", nor do we have to talk about how our "feeble scribblings" are so "poignant".

You see, the difference is our self-confidence is merely a fact of life. We don't feel the need to crow about it to everyone else. Our accomplishments, rather than being cause for PRIDE, are cause for GRATITUDE.  

When people keep trying to convince others how wonderful they are, what they are REALLY doing is trying to convince themselves.

 

Atheists like this DO worship their own intellect. They place their intellect at the top of the list of things that are important to them. They think a high IQ is what elevates them above "average" people. They think it makes them better than "average" people.

 

Christians with a high IQ know that that IQ is a gift from God, and rather than using it to make themselves feel better than others, they USE this gift from God to HELP others, as our Lord directs us to. So instead of having a chip on our shoulders, wondering why we are surrounded by "idiots", we have love and gratitude in our hearts, and wonder why we are surrounded by people less fortunate than ourselves, and we put that IQ into action to make their lives better.

 

It gives us SO much more peace and happiness than the one who keeps crying, "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

 

______________________________

Surrely you don't mean to include all Christians in what you said? I can mention one on this forum that crows about himself constantly. He has a huge amount of pride & never fails to let us know that. I have been saying for months that when this person tries to convince us how wonderful he is, it's no more than a sign of his low self esteem. He's constantly shouting "Look at ME!! I'm so SMART!! Why can't I CONVINCE you??!!"

Atheist are good people, just as some Christians are. I've never had any of them to act as though they are better than me. I have received kindness & friendship from them as I have you. You've never beaten me over the head with your belief's just as not one of them has tried to convert me to Atheism. There's good & bad people on each side.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

One must marvel at the irony that Christians, who seem to revere the 9th Commandment, lie so often.

DF


_____________________

Be careful what you post. I caught Bill in a lie, he wanted proof, so I gave it to him in a topic of it's own. No way for him to get out of it as there it was, in black & white. Guess what?.......my topic was deleted the same day, & I received a warning. Expect to see me banned any day now.

semi, if that starts happening too many people will drop out

and interest will fall off.Thats not good for business.

 

The only people here will be Bill, APackk and nobetetds...Fold the tents

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 
semi, if that starts happening too many people will drop out

and interest will fall off.Thats not good for business. 

The only people here will be Bill, APackk and nobetetds...Fold the tents

______________________

It's already happening. There's several that Bill has run off or got banned in the last few months.

He wants those here that worship him, not disagree with him or give him proof of the lies we catch him in.

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