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Hi Deep,

 

Christianity is NOT about morality.  It is about salvation -- gaining eternal life in Christ. 

 

What you call Christian morality is only a by-product of our Christian faith. 

 

Jesus Christ did not come to earth and die -- to make people more moral or to help people do good works.  So, why did He come?

 

Glad you asked!

 

John 3:14-15, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world (Deep, Puppy, Jennifer, Chick, Chuck, Bill, everyone), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

 

Wonderful!  So, how does one go about gaining that eternal life in Christ?  Now you are asking the right questions!

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

Romans 10:17, "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ."

 

Ephesians 1:13, 4:30, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. . . by whom you were sealed for (or until)the day of (YOUR)redemption."

 

So, Deep, my Friend, most Christians are moral people -- and very many atheists and other non-believers are moral people.  What is the difference? 

 

The Christian has the promise of Jesus Christ that we WILL spend eternity in the joyful presence of God.

 

The atheist and other non-believers have the promise of Jesus Christ that, unless your do a 180 degree turn, from following the world to following Jesus Christ -- you WILL spend that eternity, not in the presence of God -- but, in hell.  There is no way to sugar coat my answer.

 

However, as long as you are still breathing in this mortal body -- you still have time to start following Jesus Christ -- into an eternity of life and not death.

 

Yes, you can pull the blanky over your head and keep screaming, "God is not real!  God is not real!" 

 

But, that is about as effective as the guy standing in the middle of the interstate highway screaming, "That truck is not real!  That truck is not real!"

 

Believe me, my Friend -- that truck is real!   And, God is real!

So, in closing, my Friend -- it is not about morality, Christian or atheist -- it is about eternal life and where YOU will spend it -- heaven or hell.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill  

       

If You Died Today

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

Hi Deep,

 

Christianity is NOT about morality.  It is about salvation -- gaining eternal life in Christ. 

 

What you call Christian morality is only a by-product of our Christian faith. 

 

Jesus Christ did not come to earth and die -- to make people more moral or to help people do good works.  So, why did He come?

 

Glad you asked!

 

John 3:14-15, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world (Deep, Puppy, Jennifer, Chick, Chuck, Bill, everyone), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

 

Wonderful!  So, how does one go about gaining that eternal life in Christ?  Now you are asking the right questions!

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

Romans 10:17, "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ."

 

Ephesians 1:13, 4:30, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. . . by whom you were sealed for (or until)the day of (YOUR)redemption."

 

So, Deep, my Friend, most Christians are moral people -- and very many atheists and other non-believers are moral people.  What is the difference? 

 

The Christian has the promise of Jesus Christ that we WILL spend eternity in the joyful presence of God.

 

The atheist and other non-believers have the promise of Jesus Christ that, unless your do a 180 degree turn, from following the world to following Jesus Christ -- you WILL spend that eternity, not in the presence of God -- but, in hell.  There is no way to sugar coat my answer.

 

However, as long as you are still breathing in this mortal body -- you still have time to start following Jesus Christ -- into an eternity of life and not death.

 

Yes, you can pull the blanky over your head and keep screaming, "God is not real!  God is not real!" 

 

But, that is about as effective as the guy standing in the middle of the interstate highway screaming, "That truck is not real!  That truck is not real!"

 

Believe me, my Friend -- that truck is real!   And, God is real!

So, in closing, my Friend -- it is not about morality, Christian or atheist -- it is about eternal life and where YOU will spend it -- heaven or hell.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill  

       

 

________________

#7

.

  Posted by Bill Gray:

 -- and very many atheists and other non-believers are moral people. 

 

"atheists and other non-believers" is redunddund --sic--i like that,

anyway why would someone, not just anyone, choose to say this

in a redundant matter?

 

Oh, now I remember the billie-je rule. If you aren't a lying faux christian,

then you're a non believer.

 

 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

So, Billith says it's not about morality, it's about salvation.  We've tackled that one.  There is nothing from which to be saved.  We are born innocent and usually die that way.

 

No salvation, no morality.  I'm beginning to think religion is pretty much useless.

 

~~~~~~~~~~

That's not what Joel Osteen says. 

 

 

quote:  Originally Posted by Deep Not Shallow Not Slim:

So, Billith says it's not about morality, it's about salvation.  We've tackled that one.  There is nothing from which to be saved.  We are born innocent and usually die that way.   No salvation, no morality.  I'm beginning to think religion is pretty much useless.   DF


Hi Deep,

 

So did Pharaoh -- and look where that got him! 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Ape-Scratching-Head_Animated

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Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Religion=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And political power, best.

 

DF


Religion equals sin.  It is man's attempt to justifiy himself apart from the word of God.   Every man with or without religion has a plan to escape God's judgment.  Imputed righteousness is all of God.  That's why the natural man hates it.  It leaves him with nothing to do but believe and even that comes from God.

 

 

Every man with or without religion has a plan to escape God's judgment.  Imputed righteousness is all of God.  That's why the natural man hates it.  It leaves him with nothing to do but believe and even that comes from God.


===========

I don't hate religion, I hate what people do in the "name of religion".  I have plenty of other things to do besides "believe", and no need for a plan.

Originally Posted by bluefishbeagle:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Religion=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And political power, best.

 

DF


Religion equals sin.  It is man's attempt to justifiy himself apart from the word of God.   Every man with or without religion has a plan to escape God's judgment.  Imputed righteousness is all of God.  That's why the natural man hates it.  It leaves him with nothing to do but believe and even that comes from God.

 

 

Belief in god is religion.  One could call it mythology, or mental disease as well, but the polite term is religion.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by bluefishbeagle:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Religion=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And political power, best.

 

DF


Religion equals sin.  It is man's attempt to justifiy himself apart from the word of God.   Every man with or without religion has a plan to escape God's judgment.  Imputed righteousness is all of God.  That's why the natural man hates it.  It leaves him with nothing to do but believe and even that comes from God.

 

 

Belief in god is religion.  One could call it mythology, or mental disease as well, but the polite term is religion.

 

DF

Then any belief system can be called religion even atheism.  One is proclaiming God is, the other is proclaiming God is not.  Neither can be proved or disproved by science.  Faith is a result of  spiritual understanding, something the natural mind does not have and can not produce on it's own.  One who has only an Intellectual and historical knowledge of the scriptures will come up with another Gospel or no Gospel at all, it does not matter since both led to destruction.

 

It's odd to me that this being a forum labeled religion so frequented by atheist's.  Maybe it's just me but I'd feel it odd and a waste of my time post on an atheist forum, but I'm sure there are those that do. 

 

There are many who belive Atheism is a Religion.   The postings here certainly provide fuel for their fire.

Then any belief system can be called religion even atheism.  One is proclaiming God is, the other is proclaiming God is not.  Neither can be proved or disproved by science.  Faith is a result of  spiritual understanding, something the natural mind does not have and can not produce on it's own.  One who has only an Intellectual and historical knowledge of the scriptures will come up with another Gospel or no Gospel at all, it does not matter since both led to destruction.

 

It's odd to me that this being a forum labeled religion so frequented by atheist's.  Maybe it's just me but I'd feel it odd and a waste of my time post on an atheist forum, but I'm sure there are those that do. 

 

There are many who belive Atheism is a Religion.   The postings here certainly provide fuel for their fire.

==================

I know you were addressing DF but if you will "allow" me-It's been discussed a hundred times why atheists post here. When I first started posting the forum was titled "Religion" and the description said "discuss your religion OR OTHER BELIEFS AND PRACTICES." No where at any time did it specify it was for christians only, and as you can tell from that wording it pretty much made it clear it wasn't a christian only forum. I found out pretty fast that in the christian's minds that meant atheists were to "sit still and take any insult we toss out." I also found out pretty fast that the atheists weren't going to do that, myself included. Only people who think it upsets atheists call atheism a "religion." It doesn't upset me and other atheists I know because the term, as applied to atheism, means nothing. IF it was declared a religion that label still would not mean anything to me. IMO it would be the best "religion" out there.

 

If there are atheist forums that don't have christians posting, I have yet to see them. The christians can be vicious, calling the atheists "animals, beasts, non-human, garbage, wishing them horrible deaths, telling them they should be crucified like jesus", you name it, and getting it given right back to them by the atheists. It depends on how the forums are monitored/controlled as to how far they will go. This forum would be like that if they didn't ban posters for such things.

 

The first thing I noticed about this forum was the willingness of some so called christians to lie. I mean just LIE. Every once and a while someone will mention "respect". Respect is earned, and although there are a few that deserve it, I have to say that is a very few. Asking why atheists post here is the same as a democrat or republican asking each other why they post on a political forum. It's the same, to me, as saying atheists have no say about anything. You post to make your opinion known, give your view on a subject or something that is happening that affects you. Religion affects everyone's life in some way or the other, and it's way too important to just sit back and let people declare things as the "gospel truth" just because they think that's how it should be. 

Personally I have no problem with an atheist replying to anything I post.   Many make insightful comments.  As an example I agree that they can be just as moral as anyone.  The only thing I have to offer them is perhaps a slightly different way of looking at the scriptures.  A view I hope is more in line with bible truth than some the card carrying organized mega membership churchs hold.  But maybe it just sounds the same.  

OK, I'm confused.  We are on the brink of having an intelligent, polite discussion here, despite our disparate positions.  These are the End Days.

 

Blue, you could be right.  Any "belief" system might be called religion.  But the acceptance of science and reason is not a belief, it is reasoned understanding.  Let us, for sake of this discussion, define "belief" as the acceptance of things in the absence of evidence or despite evidence to the contrary.

 

Belief in the supernatural neatly fits that description, as we natural humans have no access to evidence for the supernatural.  I do not believe that you, or any religious person, has a perceptive sense to the supernatural that I do not, so personal experience does not count.  People fool themselves regularly.  We are prone to delusions of all sorts.  Besides, if personal experience is a valid reason for belief, the lack of such is a valid reason for nonbelief.  Back to square 1.

 

For the umpteenth + 2 time, I will say that atheism is not a religion.  No acceptance of the supernatural is required.  It is the position that the supernatural remains undemonstrated.  Simply put, since the case for the gods is undemonstrated, we reserve judgment.  We are without beliefs in gods, that's all.  This is the reasonable conclusion.

 

Best,

 

DF

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