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Christians-How do you think Atheists live their lives?

JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
Honest answers please. How do you think we atheists live? Not how you think we should live our lives, but your ideas about how we actually function in society on a day to day basis. And bill, you are welcome to respond, but I want peoples thoughts, not what your bible tells you.

Atheists, you're welcome to comment on your daily life.
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b50mb50mOld Faithful
Probably the same way any one lives. Work, eat, sleep. Watch TV, play with the kids. Go out once in a while. Pay bills and hope the money makes it till the end of the month. It never does.
Laugh, cry, get mad, make love, curse the boss and hope the check gets deposited before the bills come in.

How do you think Christians live?
_Joy__Joy_Old Faithful
Well, first of all, you are one Atheist and do not speak for all Atheists. By that I mean there's no way to answer how "we Atheists" live because you are not mirror images of each other. Atheists are individuals with differing opinions on many subjects...you just happen to agree there is no God.

I imagine most Atheists live healthy lives with healthy relationships, do not have a superiority complex and do not obsess over people who after careful examination have come to a different conclusion on the subject of God...and then there are those who should consider seeking help as soon as possible...much like any other people group. Big Grin
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i am a sour, depressed person. i hate everyone and everything. the biggest pleasures in my life include long walks through thorn bushes and kicking the dog for fun. i am certain i am typical of all atheists and proudly speak for all of them.
You forgot pulling the wings off butterflies.
INVICTUSINVICTUSOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
Honest answers please. How do you think we atheists live? Not how you think we should live our lives, but your ideas about how we actually function in society on a day to day basis. And bill, you are welcome to respond, but I want peoples thoughts, not what your bible tells you.

Atheists, you're welcome to comment on your daily life.

----------------------------------------

There is no such thing as an atheist. Your just trying to get
ideas to be a good christian.


.
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
I don't care how 'atheists', or any other tagged group lives their lives. As long as you aren't endagering society in some way, who would care?

INDIVIDUALS do bad things reguardless of the aformentioned "tagged group" heading they fit under. For me to speak negatively about all claimed atheists because of a few who have a problem living in society would be just as idiotic as an atheist speaking negatively about all claimed Christians who have a problem living in society.

You would NEVER do that though would ya Jenn???
Wink
INVICTUSINVICTUSOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
There is no such thing as an atheist. Your just trying to get
ideas to be a good christian.

Good christian? How so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be a christian would require a belief in your god. I don't need ideas from a book about a mythical being to be a good person.

----------------------------

A good atheist wouldn't talk back, so are you going to be a
good atheist?


.
CageTheElephantCageTheElephantPost Master
Funny...the thought of atheists living any different than anybody else had not entered my mind.
A thought this topic did trigger, however, would be an atheists appearance. Well, not all atheists, just a few on this forum.
I would think, that they could easily be spotted by their much larger than normal head. Maybe...twice the normal size? Ya know...to hold those "super brains"? The superior "intellegence" that you dummy christians don't have. Wink
INVICTUSINVICTUSOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
A good atheist wouldn't talk back, so are you going to be a
good atheist?

In your wet dreams they don't "talk back". Yes, I'm a good atheist. Save that "don't talk back" crap for your old lady.

---------------------------------------

Did Loretta Lynn do that song "Wet Dreams", maybe it was the Blue Miner.
I don't remember right now. Good atheist = Oxymoron.


.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi Jennifer,

As several people have said, we cannot spot an atheist by his/her appearance. And, I know there are many really nice atheists -- and some not so nice; just like we have in Christian circles.

But, Cage's response did trigger a memory for me. About 7 or 8 years ago, my daughter needed one more credit to get her BA degree. So, she took a World Religion class at our local Junior College.

In the class, the professor said they could earn extra credit by doing a special project, such as inviting someone to speak to the class.

She asked me to speak on Christianity to her class. Before I went in, she told me, "The class is made up of believers and non-believers. But, there is one atheist in the class." However, she did not tell me which one was the atheist.

After I spoke with the class and did a PowerPoint presentation, she and I were in the hallway talking. I told her, "The atheist was the guy sitting on the first row to my left, in the last seat. The guy with the goatee."

She said that he was the one and asked how I knew. It was nothing he said, for he did not speak. It was just something about his attitude, the way he sat, the way he listened. Somehow, I just knew he was the one atheist in the class -- and I was right.

Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

Maybe he was the one looking bored and rolling his eyes. I can spot a christian before they declare it by watching them twitch and purse their lips, and then they get all red in the face.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

Maybe he was the one looking bored and rolling his eyes. I can spot a christian before they declare it by watching them twitch and purse their lips, and then they get all red in the face.

No, Jennifer,

He sat very quiet and respectful. After all, his professor was watching. No, there was no outward expression or action -- just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
He sat very quiet and respectful. After all, his professor was watching. No, there was no outward expression or action -- just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.

I guess he had manners. I'd have just skipped class.

AND, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FAILED THE CLASS -- ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES, AS I HAVE SAID -- "FREE WILL."

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UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i am a sour, depressed person. i hate everyone and everything. the biggest pleasures in my life include long walks through thorn bushes and kicking the dog for fun. i am certain i am typical of all atheists and proudly speak for all of them.
You forgot pulling the wings off butterflies.


you too? that is one of the only things that comes close to brining a smile to my sad, sad face.

someone shoot me, please?
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
Funny...the thought of atheists living any different than anybody else had not entered my mind.
A thought this topic did trigger, however, would be an atheists appearance. Well, not all atheists, just a few on this forum.
I would think, that they could easily be spotted by their much larger than normal head. Maybe...twice the normal size? Ya know...to hold those "super brains"? The superior "intellegence" that you dummy christians don't have. Wink
Well if there are any with heads like that you can tell them where you get your hats. I haven't seen one atheist claim to be any more intelligent than anyone else as far as a non-belief in a god. I have said that I know many intelligent people that believe in a god and I can't think how they could. But then again I can't see why anyone stupid or intelligent would be a believer. On the other hand I've seen plenty of stupid people that believe too. As I told peter all that means is they're a christian AND a stupid person. Not stupid because they believe, but just stupid. I don't think it's an argument about intelligence. I think there are many reasons people believe and many reasons people don't. I have my own thoughts and I came to my non-belief on my own as most athesists do. Now you do have some christians that claim that atheists are not as intelligent as they are or they'd believe. Address them while you're spouting off.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
AND, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FAILED THE CLASS -- ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES, AS I HAVE SAID -- "FREE WILL."

Fail an atheist because they won't sit and listen to a lecture from a christian? Can anyone say lawsuit?

Jennifer,

When that atheist registered for this class -- he knew it was a World Religion class. And, as such, would discuss all world religions as well as Christianity. So, no, he would have no justification for skipping classes when it did not fit his beliefs, his religion. World Religion means ALL religions as well as Christianity. If he did not want to hear about Christianity, he should not have registered for the class.

And, as I did for my daughter, that man had the opportunity to bring in his atheist priest to speak to the class and give him extra credit. Why did he not do this if he believed so strongly in atheism?

Bowman, you asked if the atheist in this Religion Forum are typical of all atheists. Some are, some are not. Many of our atheist Friends are here to share their beliefs. Others are here just to find a convenient place to argue. I will leave it to you to figure out who is who.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?


actually, no. they are a good representation of the atheists in this forum, not atheists in general. no more and no less.

the fact is that atheism is "agnostic" with respect to a person's lifestyle or choices they make in life. we are gay, straight, black, white, depressed, happy, smart, stupid, republican, liberal, democrat, conservative. we are quiet about our lack of belief or obnoxiously outspoken or apathetic.

the only thing that all atheists have in common is a positive assertion that gods do not likely exist. every other similarity will be the same similarities you find in any other group of people.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?

actually, no. they are a good representation of the atheists in this forum, not atheists in general. no more and no less.

the fact is that atheism is "agnostic" with respect to a person's lifestyle or choices they make in life. we are gay, straight, black, white, depressed, happy, smart, stupid, republican, liberal, democrat, conservative. we are quiet about our lack of belief or obnoxiously outspoken or apathetic.

the only thing that all atheists have in common is a positive assertion that gods do not likely exist. every other similarity will be the same similarities you find in any other group of people.

Uno,

From your post, it would appear that you are not truly an atheist, but, instead, you are an agnostic -- sitting on the fence waiting to see which way to fall.

Over the past four years, you have described yourself as an agnostic, then an atheist, then a humanist, then back to being an atheist. Now, you define yourself as an agnostic.

It would appear that you really do not know what your believe.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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LokiLokiHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?


Not exactly. Atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a belief that there is a god. While there are several social groups that many atheists belong to around the country, they don't have a set of rules they adhere to. The only thing in common for many of them is the lack of belief. You will find atheists of many flavors. Many even with completely opposite political and social opinions.

Actually when you think about it, everyone in the world is an Atheist. Some just believe in one less god than some others. Smiler
LokiLokiHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:


all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.


Look up Russell's Teapot! The burden of proof falls on those making the claim to provide evidence to support the claim, not on those who find no evidence to believe the claim.
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
all atheists are agnostics (or should be).

Not me. Full on atheist. Can't even pretend to pretend there might be a god.


me neither, jen. but you cannot logically state with 100% certainty that no gods exist any more than you can say unicorns definitely do not exist. i am only 99.999...% certain. that minuscule chance leads me to be open for evidence while doubting very much that any will ever be presented.
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:


all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.


Look up Russell's Teapot! The burden of proof falls on those making the claims, not on those who find no evidence to believe the claim.


absolutely!

but i cannot intellectually claim that it is not possible there is a teapot orbiting the earth. even if i look, it may hide itself in another dimension.

on a quantum scale, all of reality is simply a set of probabilities. chances are infinitesimally small that gods exist no may atheism is provisional. i will certainly change my stance once sufficient evidence is presented. that said, i cannot think of any sort of evidence that would change my mind. i've watched too much Star Trek to know that many alien's just pretend to be gods just to trick us into giving up our women.

i am an atheist because i assert no gods exist. i am an agnostic because i am certainly open to the idea if overwhelming evidence is presented - no matter how unlikely that may be.
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
me neither, jen. but you cannot logically state with 100% certainty that no gods exist any more than you can say unicorns definitely do not exist. i am only 99.999...% certain. that minuscule chance leads me to be open for evidence while doubting very much that any will ever be presented.

But I do say it with 100% certainty. That's just me I guess. But once I knew I didn't believe anymore, all thoughts that a god might exist was gone. I went through that "maybe" stage and came into the nope, there isn't a god stage. Maybe some are still unsure, I can't fault them, been there done that so to speak. I've said it before, I don't look for any proof of a god, and I firmly believe there is nothing supernatural about anything that happens in life.
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
it occurs to me that some of us need a refresher on the terms agnostic and atheist. i can understand the confusion because i muddy the waters myself. but here is the explanation for why i (and any other atheist) is or should be an agnostic.

agnosticism (greek - "without knowledge") refers only to what is known or knowable. You can use the word in reference to gods or any other body of knowledge. i am "agnostic" on the topic of fairies and global warming. i cannot claim absolute knowledge where none exists.

atheism (greek "without god") refers only to our opinion (not "knowledge") of the existence of gods. it says nothing about what we

i used to be a defacto agnostic. i claimed that i did not know whether or not gods existed but REALLY hoped there were. after careful reflection, i came to the conclusion that it is overwhelmingly obvious that no gods likely exist. that positive assertion makes me an atheist.

but i cannot "know" with absolute certainty that there are no gods. so i am an agnostic with respect to that "knowledge."
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
But I do say it with 100% certainty. That's just me I guess.


i agree, jen. the difference is really splitting hairs a bit. it's almost a semantic argument. who cares, really. on the other hand, it is important to understand that we all have a limit to what we can "know" about anything.

i "know" (as much as i can know anything) that no gods exist. but no one can be 100% sure. for all you know, our entire existence is an experiment carried out by a super-intelligent alien race (aka "god") and you are simply executing your part of the program. in this universe, "absolute knowledge" does not exist. there are only probabilities.

i am a little less agnostic over my lack of belief in bigfoots. they might exist but i'm nearly 100% sure they don't. so i'm agnostic with respect to bigfoots even thought i definitely don't believe in them and think people who do are kooks.

so even though I agree with everything you state, from a "absolute knowledge" standpoint, you are an agnostic atheist. .... or just plain atheist.
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:
To be honest I had never given it much thought. The few admitted atheists I have met always seemed angry to me. I suppose atheists are just like everyone else trying to live their lives to the fullest.
Wow that's weird. All the christians on this forum except for maybe two or three seem angry to me, and the atheists seem happy go lucky.
buffalobuffaloPost Master
Since I hold that there is no such thing as a atheist but only candidates.

The candidate that purposely seeks some reason to be atheist would necessarily live their daily lives scared, confused and disoriented as opposed to a Christian with a book of instructions giving comfort, vision , direction and a promise of something better after this life.
FM Former Member
quote:
Since we know that most Christians are just like atheists 6 days a week, the only difference is that atheists get Sundays off.


Not really, NSNS.
Not really.
I, and many people I know live every day not for ourselves, but to glorify God by loving one another and putting everyone else first.
I fail sometimes, of course, lol...but the difference is that I am ever mindful of my call to try to emminate Christ's love for us in how I live my life.
just sayin.
FM Former Member
quote:
Veep, we love one another out of human solidarity. We are a social species


Where is the human solidarity when "we" let enormous numbers of people die in Darfur? Africa with famine and AIDS? The Holocaust?

I believe it is true that humans tend to be decent to eachother on a small scale, but I disagree that there is a "solidarity" just based on being the "human race".
We certainly don't take care of eachother when we slaughter babies....but that's a whole other topic.....
Not Shallow Not SlimNot Shallow Not SlimOld Faithful
It's spotty, I agree. We tend to engage in solidarity with our own tribes, more often than not.

Apes that we are, however, we revert to our brutal nature all too often.

You bring up a good question. When does conscionability demand action? Perfectly civilized nations like Sweden and Switzerland, to name only those who begin with "SW" refuse to interfere in national and regional conflicts.

Are they callous? Are they advanced? Can a civilized nation interfere in a conflict whose causes are beyond its comprehension?

I really don't know.


nsns
LokiLokiHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a belief that there is a god.

Hi Loki,

You believe that, right?

Therefore, it is your belief.

Surprise! - Surprise! - Surprise! - you have a belief, so that is your religion!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I believe that the Earth is round, the sky is blue, and the grass is green. Is that my religion too Bill?
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
I think this is an interesting topic. I'm always interested in the worldview of others. It would be an interesting discussion about how (or if) different worldviews shape a person's daily life and outlook.


bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not. i do not base any decision i make on my lack of belief. i do not consult my "atheist values" when i have a moral dilemma because there are none.

atheism is one single statement that gods do not likely exist. nothing more or less.

my "worldview" is complicated. i certainly have a "skeptical" worldview. i also have a "scientific" worldview. i have a "naturalistic" workdview.

but atheism offers no guidance, no knowledge, no moral solutions or scientific answers to vexing questions. it reflects ONLY my opinion on the existence of gods.
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Glad you're just sayin', veep.

Veep, we love one another out of human solidarity. We are a social species.

We take care of those incapable of taking care of themselves. We give to charities. We consolidate in worthwhile causes.

None of this takes religion. It's who we are. God and religion came out of this impulse, not the other way around.

Be well.

nsns


What scientific evidence do you have that proves that statement?

What is the scientific evidence that shows exactly how ONLY HUMANS live the way you described us. In the wild, they kill those incapable of taking care of themselves, even in there own group. In the wild, the ones incapable of taking care of themselves are shuffled to the back of the pack where predators take them out first so that the fittest of the groups can escape.

So please, what FACTUAL(not an unproven theory)... what FACTUAL SCIENFIC EVIDENCE do you have that clearly states why humans seem to be THE ONLY EVOLVED SPECIES that lives the way you described?

I say all of this because you can't just state something without evidence...then you'd just be using blind faith... we can't have that now can we??? Wink
Road PuppyRoad PuppyOld Faithful
Hmm...What's all that noise BeeG spews about Argue and Debate?

Seems to me like it's the christians that're all warlike and stuff. Nitpickin' when they run outta talent and all tryin' to start something.

An atheist asked you believers a dirt-simple question and some of you superstitious, fanatical smacktards just have to turn it into another flippin' crusade. Get over yourselves. You ain't that special. Just please answer the question or cheese off if ya don't wanna answer it, but fa chrissakes quit bein' a frickin' chooch about it.
Last edited by Road Puppy
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
I say all of this because you can't just state something without evidence...then you'd just be using blind faith... we can't have that now can we???



the stupid. it burns.

peter, this earth is filled with social creatures that cooperate in order to survive. my god, how can you not know this?


You would know wouldnt you dipstick?

If you don't understand the question, it's ok just to say so, or ignore it. You continuously make an arse out of yourself by anwering a question in your typical "intellectual superior" way... all the while YOU DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED!

You argued over and over and over again that animals can all have sex with each other,but that we can't infer consent of an animal with a human... but now you are comparing humans with other "social creatures that cooperate in order to surive"??? I've seen a cats EAT ONE OF THE WEAKEST OF IT'S KITTENS FOR SURVIVAL. How many humans do you know have even the natural instinct to do that, much less it be overridden by COMMON SENSE, LOGICAL PROGRESSION OF THOUGHT WHICH ANIMALS IN THE WILD DO NOT POSSESS.

So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

You can't put up the barrier between the animals in the wild and humans when we have the zoophillia debate and lump them together now simply because you can't explain why ONLY HUMANS developed the way we have to live as NSNS described.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
How do you think Christians live their lives?

Well of course, it's much different than how atheists live. Today, I burned three witches. I knew they were witches because they weighed the same as a duck.

I handled a couple of snakes, sang "Freebird" in tongues, and sent most of my money as a love gift to a blue haired lady on cable TV.

Pretty much an average day. If my witch fire is still going tomorrow, should be since witches are made of wood, I'm going to toss a couple of Korans and science books in it. Maybe go to Bed Bath and Beyond, I don't know if I'll have enough time.
B bowmanFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. It's not a definitive list, but every list of worldviews I could find listed atheism. You mention that atheism offers no guidance, no knowledge, no moral solutions or scientific answers to vexing questions. To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist.
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.
INVICTUSINVICTUSOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
[QUOTE]So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.[/QUOTE
----------------------------------

Your trapped and you know it.


.
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. ..... To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist..


"Geisler" appears to be fundamentalist. Fundamentalists seem to have a fixation on putting atheism in the same philosophical "bucket" as other religions. i believe this is an attempt to make atheism just as full of foible and folly as any other religion. that just doesn't work on a number of levels.

demonstration: you are a christian, I presume, with a christian worldview. from that, i can make some very general assumptions about you without knowing you at all such as: you believe in the sanctity of life and of marriage. you believe you are going to meet loved ones when you ascend into heaven. you are probably a republican. when you have a moral dilemma, you pray to your god for guidance. you try to emulate jesus as much as you can and, like all sinners, constantly fall from grace.

not all of those will apply to you, of course, but many have to apply or you would not be a christian.

i'm an atheist. now please tell me what areas of my life are informed by an "atheistic worldview"? you are required to pretend you know nothing else about me except that i do not believe in gods.

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i admit it peter, you busted me. i cannot hold a candle to your lofty intellect. i give up.


I've never once stated or insinuated that I was smarter than you. I asked a question to another poster that you jumped in on with a nonsensical nonresponse. If you didn't like the question or understand the question then IGNORE the question. Otherwise you look foolish rambling about something that had nothing to do with my question. Ya'll are the one's who scream "EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE...GOTTA HAVE EVIDENCE..."(I hear you all screaming in the highest pitched whiniest Fran Drescher voice possible)... yet I asked one simple question seeking scientific evidence that explains why ONLY HUMANS have the logical progression of thought and deductive reasoning and there was no answer. If you'd like to answer, go for it.
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.


My first question was not nonsensical, and it was for NSNS. Read it... if you have an answer, go for it, if not, ignore it... I don't care. I'm guessin NSNS doesnt have an answer since he hasn't responded, and Uno doesn't have an answer since, as he usually does, changed the question so his answer could dodge mine.
uwsoftballuwsoftballHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
I've seen a cats EAT ONE OF THE WEAKEST OF IT'S KITTENS FOR SURVIVAL. How many humans do you know have even the natural instinct to do that, much less it be overridden by COMMON SENSE, LOGICAL PROGRESSION OF THOUGHT WHICH ANIMALS IN THE WILD DO NOT POSSESS.


Peter,

I am not an atheist, although at times I may give the impression that I am. I am a seeker. Open to all. But I'll answer your question with just two words.

DONNER PARTY

In terms of pure survival none of us know what steps we would take to overcome the adversity that confronts us. It is very easy for us to sit here in the comforts of our home and content that we would never resort to such an action. "I would rather die first". But would we? When it comes right down to it, life or death, what steps would you take to stay alive?

JMHO
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qde2gBphLso


Tales of human survival under dire circumstances never cease to capture our attention. Just last week, the world watched as one-by-one, the Chilean miners were brought up to the surface and reunited with their loved ones. Coincidentally, the miners' story of survival ended exactly thirty-eight years from the day another South American survival story was just beginning. History retells this tale in a new special called I Am Alive: Surviving the Andes Plane Crash.

Whether you were around in 1972 when the news broke that a group of rugby players had survived a plane crash and 72 days in the freezing cold Andes mountains, or you’ve seen the other documentaries, read the books or saw the movie Alive starring Ethan Hawke, there’s a good chance you’ve heard of the story. On October 13, 1972, a charter plane carrying a rugby team and some of their friends and family was headed toward Chile when it crashed in the Andes mountains. 45 people were on the plane, only 16 survived the ordeal. It’s a fascinating story and one that’s sparked much discussion over the years not only because it can be considered a miracle that people could survive in sub-zero temperatures for more than two months with virtually no supplies and only a broken airplane fuselage as shelter, but also because the survivors had to eat the bodies of the dead in order to survive.
Road PuppyRoad PuppyOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by uwsoftball:
But I'll answer your question with just two words.

DONNER PARTY

In terms of pure survival none of us know what steps we would take to overcome the adversity that confronts us. It is very easy for us to sit here in the comforts of our home and content that we would never resort to such an action. "I would rather die first". But would we? When it comes right down to it, life or death, what steps would you take to stay alive?

JMHO



LOL! Do not meddle in the affairs of atheists, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Wink

quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:

that's like kicking a puppy


HEY!

Watch that sh!t, cowboy..... Big Grin
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qde2gBphLso


Tales of human survival under dire circumstances never cease to capture our attention. Just last week, the world watched as one-by-one, the Chilean miners were brought up to the surface and reunited with their loved ones. Coincidentally, the miners' story of survival ended exactly thirty-eight years from the day another South American survival story was just beginning. History retells this tale in a new special called I Am Alive: Surviving the Andes Plane Crash.

Whether you were around in 1972 when the news broke that a group of rugby players had survived a plane crash and 72 days in the freezing cold Andes mountains, or you’ve seen the other documentaries, read the books or saw the movie Alive starring Ethan Hawke, there’s a good chance you’ve heard of the story. On October 13, 1972, a charter plane carrying a rugby team and some of their friends and family was headed toward Chile when it crashed in the Andes mountains. 45 people were on the plane, only 16 survived the ordeal. It’s a fascinating story and one that’s sparked much discussion over the years not only because it can be considered a miracle that people could survive in sub-zero temperatures for more than two months with virtually no supplies and only a broken airplane fuselage as shelter, but also because the survivors had to eat the bodies of the dead in order to survive.


Those ya'll are talking about are EXTREME EXAMPLES.. not the norm. Those things are everyday occurances in the wild. However, we as humans view that as horrid events. Why? Why ONLY HUMANS?? That's the question. NSNS and Uno talk so much about scientific evidence for this, or you gotta be able to test that... What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone. Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?
JenniferJenniferOld Faithful
quote:
Those ya'll are talking about are EXTREME EXAMPLES.. not the norm. Those things are everyday occurances in the wild. However, we as humans view that as horrid events. Why? Why ONLY HUMANS?? That's the question. NSNS and Uno talk so much about scientific evidence for this, or you gotta be able to test that... What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone. Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?

Who knows why. Who really cares why. It is what it is.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
...Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?


The answer keeps staring you in the face. It's evolution.
You also ask these questions ignoring the fact that there have been many different types of the human species. All but one type have gone extinct. Most, if not all, of these ancestors and evolutionary relatives were presumably smarter than any other animal during it's time. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, of any of these human types engaging in the behaviors that you only ascribe to modern humans. So let me ask you a question. Why did God allow all the other human lines of his creation to go extinct?
uwsoftballuwsoftballHall of Famer
Ahhh, but Peter you said yourself for survival the cat ate the kitten. So we are talking only about cases of "survival". Would it be the norm for the cat to eat her kitten if other food was available?

So Peter, it begs the question.....if you were stranded in the Andes with Slim and Puppy and no hope of immediate rescue, no food and for purely survival purposes only-who would you eat first?

Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
...Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?


The answer keeps staring you in the face. It's evolution.
You also ask these questions ignoring the fact that there have been many different types of the human species. All but one type have gone extinct. Most, if not all, of these ancestors and evolutionary relatives were presumably smarter than any other animal during it's time. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, of any of these human types engaging in the behaviors that you only ascribe to modern humans. So let me ask you a question. Why did God allow all the other human lines of his creation to go extinct?


The God question is invalid on it's face and has no merit. You aren't asking as if you really want to know, you are asking because you don't understand the Bible or God's creation.

As for evolution... that doesn't explain anything. That's not scientific facts which explain why humans are so different. Unless you are speaking of the evolution of society, in which case that would be valid and easily traced. As for inellect, logic, and emotion, where is the scientific proof that it just happened to humans? That's my point. To be an atheist means you don't believe in a soul that resides in every human being. So there has to be something else under your belief system that makes us the way we are. I believe God created us, thus instilling us with the qualities that make us the top of the food chain. What caused this tremendous leap in intelligence based off of only scientific fact?
PR Peter RiellyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by uwsoftball:
Ahhh, but Peter you said yourself for survival the cat ate the kitten. So we are talking only about cases of "survival". Would it be the norm for the cat to eat her kitten if other food was available?

So Peter, it begs the question.....if you were stranded in the Andes with Slim and Puppy and no hope of immediate rescue, no food and for purely survival purposes only-who would you eat first?

Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin


Actually it was only for survival to the cat. It had the kittens under the steps on a porch. It could have easily walked out and eaten from the bowl it had every day of it's life. Yet, intead it chose to eat one of it's kittens. If I'm stranded with those you mentioned, number one, it's different because they aren't my children, and number two, if there is a McDonalds just down the way, I'd choose to go to the McDonalds. Wink
uwsoftballuwsoftballHall of Famer
Ahh...Peter. True, they are not your children, but we see cases repeately of mothers taking the life of their child. Albeit, suffering from post partum for the most part. Yet, how do we know whether or not your cat was suffering from post partum? Impossible question to answer I know, but when I get home tonight I'll ask my dog. He has spent a lifetime studying cats and I'm quite sure he could offer us some insights as to their behavior.
Big Grin

But again, you are stranded, no food, no hope of rescue, no McDonald's down the road, purely self preservation-who would you eat first?

As for me, no way I'm getting on a plane with puppy that has charted a course over the Andes. He's already stated he thinks I would be quite tasty with ketchup.
Big Grin
_Joy__Joy_Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Originally posted by bowman:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. ..... To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist..


"Geisler" appears to be fundamentalist. Fundamentalists seem to have a fixation on putting atheism in the same philosophical "bucket" as other religions. i believe this is an attempt to make atheism just as full of foible and folly as any other religion. that just doesn't work on a number of levels.

demonstration: you are a christian, I presume, with a christian worldview. from that, i can make some very general assumptions about you without knowing you at all such as: you believe in the sanctity of life and of marriage. you believe you are going to meet loved ones when you ascend into heaven. you are probably a republican. when you have a moral dilemma, you pray to your god for guidance. you try to emulate jesus as much as you can and, like all sinners, constantly fall from grace.

not all of those will apply to you, of course, but many have to apply or you would not be a christian.

i'm an atheist. now please tell me what areas of my life are informed by an "atheistic worldview"? you are required to pretend you know nothing else about me except that i do not believe in gods.

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.


I don't agree that Atheism in and of itself is a worldview, but surely you would agree that if a person is an Atheist, it would greatly affect their worldview?
_Joy__Joy_Old Faithful
Well, they'd need to fill out a questionaire and possibly do a little song and dance first...bahahaha...well?! There's no entertainment there either, right? How long might you have to hang out with the one that's left? Wait! I have a feeling that being the smallest, I might be first on the dinner menu. Eeker

May I have a firearm atop my mountain please? Big Grin
UnobtaniumUnobtaniumPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone.


peter, this is simply not true.

stupid animals #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...yoeg&feature=related

stupid animals #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Kf3E&feature=related

Stupid animal #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...wEUY&feature=related

Stupid #4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUGT7MdDB4

sorry, lots of elephant things here but his is interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...NvDw&feature=related

and one more famous one. if you havne't seen it, you will cry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAIsHtEn_gI

and here is what happens when a christian tries to test gods will. put this under stupid human #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Lquc&feature=channel

peter, the facts have been in for a very long time. humans are just another animals with a slightly higher level of "intelligence" as defined by us humans.
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