Christians-How do you think Atheists live their lives?

Probably the same way any one lives. Work, eat, sleep. Watch TV, play with the kids. Go out once in a while. Pay bills and hope the money makes it till the end of the month. It never does.
Laugh, cry, get mad, make love, curse the boss and hope the check gets deposited before the bills come in.

How do you think Christians live?

Well, first of all, you are one Atheist and do not speak for all Atheists. By that I mean there's no way to answer how "we Atheists" live because you are not mirror images of each other. Atheists are individuals with differing opinions on many subjects...you just happen to agree there is no God.

I imagine most Atheists live healthy lives with healthy relationships, do not have a superiority complex and do not obsess over people who after careful examination have come to a different conclusion on the subject of God...and then there are those who should consider seeking help as soon as possible...much like any other people group.

quote:

Well, first of all, you are one Atheist and do not speak for all Atheists.

How is asking that question "speaking for all atheists"?

Sorry, Jennifer...I added a sentence to clarify that while you were formulating that response. I saw it needed it when I re-read my post.

i am a sour, depressed person. i hate everyone and everything. the biggest pleasures in my life include long walks through thorn bushes and kicking the dog for fun. i am certain i am typical of all atheists and proudly speak for all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i am a sour, depressed person. i hate everyone and everything. the biggest pleasures in my life include long walks through thorn bushes and kicking the dog for fun. i am certain i am typical of all atheists and proudly speak for all of them.

You forgot pulling the wings off butterflies.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Honest answers please. How do you think we atheists live? Not how you think we should live our lives, but your ideas about how we actually function in society on a day to day basis. And bill, you are welcome to respond, but I want peoples thoughts, not what your bible tells you.

Atheists, you're welcome to comment on your daily life.

----------------------------------------

There is no such thing as an atheist. Your just trying to get
ideas to be a good christian.


.

One day at a time like we do.

from payday to payday.

I don't care how 'atheists', or any other tagged group lives their lives. As long as you aren't endagering society in some way, who would care?

INDIVIDUALS do bad things reguardless of the aformentioned "tagged group" heading they fit under. For me to speak negatively about all claimed atheists because of a few who have a problem living in society would be just as idiotic as an atheist speaking negatively about all claimed Christians who have a problem living in society.

You would NEVER do that though would ya Jenn???

quote:

There is no such thing as an atheist. Your just trying to get
ideas to be a good christian.

Good christian? How so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be a christian would require a belief in your god. I don't need ideas from a book about a mythical being to be a good person.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

There is no such thing as an atheist. Your just trying to get
ideas to be a good christian.

Good christian? How so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be a christian would require a belief in your god. I don't need ideas from a book about a mythical being to be a good person.

----------------------------

A good atheist wouldn't talk back, so are you going to be a
good atheist?


.

quote:

A good atheist wouldn't talk back, so are you going to be a
good atheist?

In your wet dreams they don't "talk back". Yes, I'm a good atheist. Save that "don't talk back" crap for your old lady.

Funny...the thought of atheists living any different than anybody else had not entered my mind.
A thought this topic did trigger, however, would be an atheists appearance. Well, not all atheists, just a few on this forum.
I would think, that they could easily be spotted by their much larger than normal head. Maybe...twice the normal size? Ya know...to hold those "super brains"? The superior "intellegence" that you dummy christians don't have.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

A good atheist wouldn't talk back, so are you going to be a
good atheist?

In your wet dreams they don't "talk back". Yes, I'm a good atheist. Save that "don't talk back" crap for your old lady.

---------------------------------------

Did Loretta Lynn do that song "Wet Dreams", maybe it was the Blue Miner.
I don't remember right now. Good atheist = Oxymoron.


.

Hi Jennifer,

As several people have said, we cannot spot an atheist by his/her appearance. And, I know there are many really nice atheists -- and some not so nice; just like we have in Christian circles.

But, Cage's response did trigger a memory for me. About 7 or 8 years ago, my daughter needed one more credit to get her BA degree. So, she took a World Religion class at our local Junior College.

In the class, the professor said they could earn extra credit by doing a special project, such as inviting someone to speak to the class.

She asked me to speak on Christianity to her class. Before I went in, she told me, "The class is made up of believers and non-believers. But, there is one atheist in the class." However, she did not tell me which one was the atheist.

After I spoke with the class and did a PowerPoint presentation, she and I were in the hallway talking. I told her, "The atheist was the guy sitting on the first row to my left, in the last seat. The guy with the goatee."

She said that he was the one and asked how I knew. It was nothing he said, for he did not speak. It was just something about his attitude, the way he sat, the way he listened. Somehow, I just knew he was the one atheist in the class -- and I was right.

Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Did Loretta Lynn do that song "Wet Dreams", maybe it was the Blue Miner.
I don't remember right now. Good atheist = Oxymoron.

Never listened to Lynn and have no idea who blue miner is. What in your twisted mind makes a person bad because they're atheists?

quote:

Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

Maybe he was the one looking bored and rolling his eyes. I can spot a christian before they declare it by watching them twitch and purse their lips, and then they get all red in the face.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Is this being prejudiced? No, it was just an intuitive response I had to this man. Maybe, as Cage said, it was his head, his goatee -- I don't know; but, I spotted him right away as I began my talk.

Maybe he was the one looking bored and rolling his eyes. I can spot a christian before they declare it by watching them twitch and purse their lips, and then they get all red in the face.

No, Jennifer,

He sat very quiet and respectful. After all, his professor was watching. No, there was no outward expression or action -- just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

He sat very quiet and respectful. After all, his professor was watching. No, there was no outward expression or action -- just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.

I guess he had manners. I'd have just skipped class.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

He sat very quiet and respectful. After all, his professor was watching. No, there was no outward expression or action -- just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.

I guess he had manners. I'd have just skipped class.

AND, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FAILED THE CLASS -- ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES, AS I HAVE SAID -- "FREE WILL."

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
No, Jennifer,
just something within me that told me he was the atheist. I cannot explain it further than that.
Bill

Well, we all know that God whispered in your ear & told you who it was.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i am a sour, depressed person. i hate everyone and everything. the biggest pleasures in my life include long walks through thorn bushes and kicking the dog for fun. i am certain i am typical of all atheists and proudly speak for all of them.

You forgot pulling the wings off butterflies.

you too? that is one of the only things that comes close to brining a smile to my sad, sad face.

someone shoot me, please?

The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?

quote:

AND, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FAILED THE CLASS -- ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES, AS I HAVE SAID -- "FREE WILL."

Fail an atheist because they won't sit and listen to a lecture from a christian? Can anyone say lawsuit?

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
Funny...the thought of atheists living any different than anybody else had not entered my mind.
A thought this topic did trigger, however, would be an atheists appearance. Well, not all atheists, just a few on this forum.
I would think, that they could easily be spotted by their much larger than normal head. Maybe...twice the normal size? Ya know...to hold those "super brains"? The superior "intellegence" that you dummy christians don't have.

Well if there are any with heads like that you can tell them where you get your hats. I haven't seen one atheist claim to be any more intelligent than anyone else as far as a non-belief in a god. I have said that I know many intelligent people that believe in a god and I can't think how they could. But then again I can't see why anyone stupid or intelligent would be a believer. On the other hand I've seen plenty of stupid people that believe too. As I told peter all that means is they're a christian AND a stupid person. Not stupid because they believe, but just stupid. I don't think it's an argument about intelligence. I think there are many reasons people believe and many reasons people don't. I have my own thoughts and I came to my non-belief on my own as most athesists do. Now you do have some christians that claim that atheists are not as intelligent as they are or they'd believe. Address them while you're spouting off.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

AND, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FAILED THE CLASS -- ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES, AS I HAVE SAID -- "FREE WILL."

Fail an atheist because they won't sit and listen to a lecture from a christian? Can anyone say lawsuit?

Jennifer,

When that atheist registered for this class -- he knew it was a World Religion class. And, as such, would discuss all world religions as well as Christianity. So, no, he would have no justification for skipping classes when it did not fit his beliefs, his religion. World Religion means ALL religions as well as Christianity. If he did not want to hear about Christianity, he should not have registered for the class.

And, as I did for my daughter, that man had the opportunity to bring in his atheist priest to speak to the class and give him extra credit. Why did he not do this if he believed so strongly in atheism?

Bowman, you asked if the atheist in this Religion Forum are typical of all atheists. Some are, some are not. Many of our atheist Friends are here to share their beliefs. Others are here just to find a convenient place to argue. I will leave it to you to figure out who is who.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?

actually, no. they are a good representation of the atheists in this forum, not atheists in general. no more and no less.

the fact is that atheism is "agnostic" with respect to a person's lifestyle or choices they make in life. we are gay, straight, black, white, depressed, happy, smart, stupid, republican, liberal, democrat, conservative. we are quiet about our lack of belief or obnoxiously outspoken or apathetic.

the only thing that all atheists have in common is a positive assertion that gods do not likely exist. every other similarity will be the same similarities you find in any other group of people.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?

actually, no. they are a good representation of the atheists in this forum, not atheists in general. no more and no less.

the fact is that atheism is "agnostic" with respect to a person's lifestyle or choices they make in life. we are gay, straight, black, white, depressed, happy, smart, stupid, republican, liberal, democrat, conservative. we are quiet about our lack of belief or obnoxiously outspoken or apathetic.

the only thing that all atheists have in common is a positive assertion that gods do not likely exist. every other similarity will be the same similarities you find in any other group of people.

Uno,

From your post, it would appear that you are not truly an atheist, but, instead, you are an agnostic -- sitting on the fence waiting to see which way to fall.

Over the past four years, you have described yourself as an agnostic, then an atheist, then a humanist, then back to being an atheist. Now, you define yourself as an agnostic.

It would appear that you really do not know what your believe.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

From your post, it would appear that you are not truly an atheist, but, instead, you are an agnostic.

all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

From your post, it would appear that you are not truly an atheist, but, instead, you are an agnostic.

all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.

quote:

all atheists are agnostics (or should be).

Not me. Full on atheist. Can't even pretend to pretend there might be a god.

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:
The vast majority of my exposure to atheism has been in this forum. So, to all the atheists out there, are the responses I see in this forum a good representation of modern atheism?

Not exactly. Atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a belief that there is a god. While there are several social groups that many atheists belong to around the country, they don't have a set of rules they adhere to. The only thing in common for many of them is the lack of belief. You will find atheists of many flavors. Many even with completely opposite political and social opinions.

Actually when you think about it, everyone in the world is an Atheist. Some just believe in one less god than some others.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:


all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.

Look up Russell's Teapot! The burden of proof falls on those making the claim to provide evidence to support the claim, not on those who find no evidence to believe the claim.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

all atheists are agnostics (or should be).

Not me. Full on atheist. Can't even pretend to pretend there might be a god.

me neither, jen. but you cannot logically state with 100% certainty that no gods exist any more than you can say unicorns definitely do not exist. i am only 99.999...% certain. that minuscule chance leads me to be open for evidence while doubting very much that any will ever be presented.

quote:

Originally posted by Loki:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:


all atheists are agnostics (or should be). all agnostics are not atheists. i'll leave you to figure how that can be possible knowing full well that you cannot.

Look up Russell's Teapot! The burden of proof falls on those making the claims, not on those who find no evidence to believe the claim.

absolutely!

but i cannot intellectually claim that it is not possible there is a teapot orbiting the earth. even if i look, it may hide itself in another dimension.

on a quantum scale, all of reality is simply a set of probabilities. chances are infinitesimally small that gods exist no may atheism is provisional. i will certainly change my stance once sufficient evidence is presented. that said, i cannot think of any sort of evidence that would change my mind. i've watched too much Star Trek to know that many alien's just pretend to be gods just to trick us into giving up our women.

i am an atheist because i assert no gods exist. i am an agnostic because i am certainly open to the idea if overwhelming evidence is presented - no matter how unlikely that may be.

quote:

me neither, jen. but you cannot logically state with 100% certainty that no gods exist any more than you can say unicorns definitely do not exist. i am only 99.999...% certain. that minuscule chance leads me to be open for evidence while doubting very much that any will ever be presented.

But I do say it with 100% certainty. That's just me I guess. But once I knew I didn't believe anymore, all thoughts that a god might exist was gone. I went through that "maybe" stage and came into the nope, there isn't a god stage. Maybe some are still unsure, I can't fault them, been there done that so to speak. I've said it before, I don't look for any proof of a god, and I firmly believe there is nothing supernatural about anything that happens in life.

it occurs to me that some of us need a refresher on the terms agnostic and atheist. i can understand the confusion because i muddy the waters myself. but here is the explanation for why i (and any other atheist) is or should be an agnostic.

agnosticism (greek - "without knowledge") refers only to what is known or knowable. You can use the word in reference to gods or any other body of knowledge. i am "agnostic" on the topic of fairies and global warming. i cannot claim absolute knowledge where none exists.

atheism (greek "without god") refers only to our opinion (not "knowledge") of the existence of gods. it says nothing about what we

i used to be a defacto agnostic. i claimed that i did not know whether or not gods existed but REALLY hoped there were. after careful reflection, i came to the conclusion that it is overwhelmingly obvious that no gods likely exist. that positive assertion makes me an atheist.

but i cannot "know" with absolute certainty that there are no gods. so i am an agnostic with respect to that "knowledge."

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
But I do say it with 100% certainty. That's just me I guess.

i agree, jen. the difference is really splitting hairs a bit. it's almost a semantic argument. who cares, really. on the other hand, it is important to understand that we all have a limit to what we can "know" about anything.

i "know" (as much as i can know anything) that no gods exist. but no one can be 100% sure. for all you know, our entire existence is an experiment carried out by a super-intelligent alien race (aka "god") and you are simply executing your part of the program. in this universe, "absolute knowledge" does not exist. there are only probabilities.

i am a little less agnostic over my lack of belief in bigfoots. they might exist but i'm nearly 100% sure they don't. so i'm agnostic with respect to bigfoots even thought i definitely don't believe in them and think people who do are kooks.

so even though I agree with everything you state, from a "absolute knowledge" standpoint, you are an agnostic atheist. .... or just plain atheist.

quote:

so even though I agree with everything you state, from a "absolute knowledge" standpoint, you are an agnostic atheist. .... or just plain atheist.

And again I'd have to choose just plain atheist. The very notion of a god never enters my mind.

To be honest I had never given it much thought. The few admitted atheists I have met always seemed angry to me. I suppose atheists are just like everyone else trying to live their lives to the fullest.

quote:

Originally posted by tigrtrek:
To be honest I had never given it much thought. The few admitted atheists I have met always seemed angry to me. I suppose atheists are just like everyone else trying to live their lives to the fullest.

Wow that's weird. All the christians on this forum except for maybe two or three seem angry to me, and the atheists seem happy go lucky.

Since I hold that there is no such thing as a atheist but only candidates.

The candidate that purposely seeks some reason to be atheist would necessarily live their daily lives scared, confused and disoriented as opposed to a Christian with a book of instructions giving comfort, vision , direction and a promise of something better after this life.

I think this is an interesting topic. I'm always interested in the worldview of others. It would be an interesting discussion about how (or if) different worldviews shape a person's daily life and outlook.

Since we know that most Christians are just like atheists 6 days a week, the only difference is that atheists get Sundays off.

Wait.... so do most Christians.

Never mind.


nsns

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Since we know that most Christians are just like atheists 6 days a week, the only difference is that atheists get Sundays off.

Wait.... so do most Christians.

Never mind.


nsns

Shhhhhhh you'll get luv shack started again.

quote:

Originally posted by Loki:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a belief that there is a god.

Hi Loki,

You believe that, right?

Therefore, it is your belief.

Surprise! - Surprise! - Surprise! - you have a belief, so that is your religion!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

What
a
moron.


nsns

quote:

Since we know that most Christians are just like atheists 6 days a week, the only difference is that atheists get Sundays off.

Not really, NSNS.
Not really.
I, and many people I know live every day not for ourselves, but to glorify God by loving one another and putting everyone else first.
I fail sometimes, of course, lol...but the difference is that I am ever mindful of my call to try to emminate Christ's love for us in how I live my life.
just sayin.

Glad you're just sayin', veep.

Veep, we love one another out of human solidarity. We are a social species.

We take care of those incapable of taking care of themselves. We give to charities. We consolidate in worthwhile causes.

None of this takes religion. It's who we are. God and religion came out of this impulse, not the other way around.

Be well.

nsns

quote:

Veep, we love one another out of human solidarity. We are a social species

Where is the human solidarity when "we" let enormous numbers of people die in Darfur? Africa with famine and AIDS? The Holocaust?

I believe it is true that humans tend to be decent to eachother on a small scale, but I disagree that there is a "solidarity" just based on being the "human race".
We certainly don't take care of eachother when we slaughter babies....but that's a whole other topic.....

It's spotty, I agree. We tend to engage in solidarity with our own tribes, more often than not.

Apes that we are, however, we revert to our brutal nature all too often.

You bring up a good question. When does conscionability demand action? Perfectly civilized nations like Sweden and Switzerland, to name only those who begin with "SW" refuse to interfere in national and regional conflicts.

Are they callous? Are they advanced? Can a civilized nation interfere in a conflict whose causes are beyond its comprehension?

I really don't know.


nsns

quote:

When does conscionability demand action?

In my opinion? ..Always.

These are hard questions, indeed. I believe I need a glass of wine in order to contemplte.

That's not possible on a political level.


nsns

...which is exactly why religion and politics are counter-intuitive.

Have 3 more wines, and consider conscionability a bit more!



nsns

half the dang bottle, NSNS my friend, and the stinkin' world still is a mess.

Veep,

We must share 3 bottles of Veuve Cliquot and discuss this in more detail.

I suggest chocolate strawberries and cheese fishies as well.

We'll get to the bottom of things then.


nsns

That sounds good. The world is just going to have to wait until we can put our 2 drunken heads together. You bring the fish (although i am more partial to the pretzel-y fish), and i will bring the strawberries.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by Loki:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a belief that there is a god.

Hi Loki,

You believe that, right?

Therefore, it is your belief.

Surprise! - Surprise! - Surprise! - you have a belief, so that is your religion!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I believe that the Earth is round, the sky is blue, and the grass is green. Is that my religion too Bill?

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:
I think this is an interesting topic. I'm always interested in the worldview of others. It would be an interesting discussion about how (or if) different worldviews shape a person's daily life and outlook.

bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not. i do not base any decision i make on my lack of belief. i do not consult my "atheist values" when i have a moral dilemma because there are none.

atheism is one single statement that gods do not likely exist. nothing more or less.

my "worldview" is complicated. i certainly have a "skeptical" worldview. i also have a "scientific" worldview. i have a "naturalistic" workdview.

but atheism offers no guidance, no knowledge, no moral solutions or scientific answers to vexing questions. it reflects ONLY my opinion on the existence of gods.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Glad you're just sayin', veep.

Veep, we love one another out of human solidarity. We are a social species.

We take care of those incapable of taking care of themselves. We give to charities. We consolidate in worthwhile causes.

None of this takes religion. It's who we are. God and religion came out of this impulse, not the other way around.

Be well.

nsns

What scientific evidence do you have that proves that statement?

What is the scientific evidence that shows exactly how ONLY HUMANS live the way you described us. In the wild, they kill those incapable of taking care of themselves, even in there own group. In the wild, the ones incapable of taking care of themselves are shuffled to the back of the pack where predators take them out first so that the fittest of the groups can escape.

So please, what FACTUAL(not an unproven theory)... what FACTUAL SCIENFIC EVIDENCE do you have that clearly states why humans seem to be THE ONLY EVOLVED SPECIES that lives the way you described?

I say all of this because you can't just state something without evidence...then you'd just be using blind faith... we can't have that now can we???

Hmm...What's all that noise BeeG spews about Argue and Debate?

Seems to me like it's the christians that're all warlike and stuff. Nitpickin' when they run outta talent and all tryin' to start something.

An atheist asked you believers a dirt-simple question and some of you superstitious, fanatical smacktards just have to turn it into another flippin' crusade. Get over yourselves. You ain't that special. Just please answer the question or cheese off if ya don't wanna answer it, but fa chrissakes quit bein' a frickin' chooch about it.

quote:

I say all of this because you can't just state something without evidence...then you'd just be using blind faith... we can't have that now can we???

the stupid. it burns.

peter, this earth is filled with social creatures that cooperate in order to survive. my god, how can you not know this?

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

I say all of this because you can't just state something without evidence...then you'd just be using blind faith... we can't have that now can we???

the stupid. it burns.

peter, this earth is filled with social creatures that cooperate in order to survive. my god, how can you not know this?

You would know wouldnt you dipstick?

If you don't understand the question, it's ok just to say so, or ignore it. You continuously make an arse out of yourself by anwering a question in your typical "intellectual superior" way... all the while YOU DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED!

You argued over and over and over again that animals can all have sex with each other,but that we can't infer consent of an animal with a human... but now you are comparing humans with other "social creatures that cooperate in order to surive"??? I've seen a cats EAT ONE OF THE WEAKEST OF IT'S KITTENS FOR SURVIVAL. How many humans do you know have even the natural instinct to do that, much less it be overridden by COMMON SENSE, LOGICAL PROGRESSION OF THOUGHT WHICH ANIMALS IN THE WILD DO NOT POSSESS.

So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

You can't put up the barrier between the animals in the wild and humans when we have the zoophillia debate and lump them together now simply because you can't explain why ONLY HUMANS developed the way we have to live as NSNS described.

i admit it peter, you busted me. i cannot hold a candle to your lofty intellect. i give up.

How do you think Christians live their lives?

Well of course, it's much different than how atheists live. Today, I burned three witches. I knew they were witches because they weighed the same as a duck.

I handled a couple of snakes, sang "Freebird" in tongues, and sent most of my money as a love gift to a blue haired lady on cable TV.

Pretty much an average day. If my witch fire is still going tomorrow, should be since witches are made of wood, I'm going to toss a couple of Korans and science books in it. Maybe go to Bed Bath and Beyond, I don't know if I'll have enough time.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. It's not a definitive list, but every list of worldviews I could find listed atheism. You mention that atheism offers no guidance, no knowledge, no moral solutions or scientific answers to vexing questions. To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist.

quote:

So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
[QUOTE]So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.[/QUOTE
----------------------------------

Your trapped and you know it.


.

quote:

Your trapped and you know it.

Trapped? Trapped in what and how?

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. ..... To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist..

"Geisler" appears to be fundamentalist. Fundamentalists seem to have a fixation on putting atheism in the same philosophical "bucket" as other religions. i believe this is an attempt to make atheism just as full of foible and folly as any other religion. that just doesn't work on a number of levels.

demonstration: you are a christian, I presume, with a christian worldview. from that, i can make some very general assumptions about you without knowing you at all such as: you believe in the sanctity of life and of marriage. you believe you are going to meet loved ones when you ascend into heaven. you are probably a republican. when you have a moral dilemma, you pray to your god for guidance. you try to emulate jesus as much as you can and, like all sinners, constantly fall from grace.

not all of those will apply to you, of course, but many have to apply or you would not be a christian.

i'm an atheist. now please tell me what areas of my life are informed by an "atheistic worldview"? you are required to pretend you know nothing else about me except that i do not believe in gods.

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Your trapped and you know it.

Trapped? Trapped in what and how?

jen, just a gentle reminder: you are attempting to reason with those who have abandoned it. good luck with that!

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
i admit it peter, you busted me. i cannot hold a candle to your lofty intellect. i give up.

I've never once stated or insinuated that I was smarter than you. I asked a question to another poster that you jumped in on with a nonsensical nonresponse. If you didn't like the question or understand the question then IGNORE the question. Otherwise you look foolish rambling about something that had nothing to do with my question. Ya'll are the one's who scream "EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE...GOTTA HAVE EVIDENCE..."(I hear you all screaming in the highest pitched whiniest Fran Drescher voice possible)... yet I asked one simple question seeking scientific evidence that explains why ONLY HUMANS have the logical progression of thought and deductive reasoning and there was no answer. If you'd like to answer, go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

So now... maybe you understand the question now... What are all other animals in the wild so similar in that they are driven by primal instinct alone, yet ONLY humans has developed the higer level of livin we enjoy?

The frenzied way you jump around and the nonsensical questions you ask make it impossible to understand you. You keep going back to sex with animals. Bizarre.

My first question was not nonsensical, and it was for NSNS. Read it... if you have an answer, go for it, if not, ignore it... I don't care. I'm guessin NSNS doesnt have an answer since he hasn't responded, and Uno doesn't have an answer since, as he usually does, changed the question so his answer could dodge mine.

peter, i don't understand; i admitted defeat by a intellectually superior opponent. you won. why the anger? that's like kicking a puppy.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
peter, i don't understand; i admitted defeat by a intellectually superior opponent. you won. why the anger? that's like kicking a puppy.

Good deal... Do I get a trophy or a plaque??

quote:

i'm an atheist. now please tell me what areas of my life are informed by an "atheistic worldview"? you are required to pretend you know nothing else about me except that i do not believe in gods.

May I jump in?

LOL unob.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
I've seen a cats EAT ONE OF THE WEAKEST OF IT'S KITTENS FOR SURVIVAL. How many humans do you know have even the natural instinct to do that, much less it be overridden by COMMON SENSE, LOGICAL PROGRESSION OF THOUGHT WHICH ANIMALS IN THE WILD DO NOT POSSESS.

Peter,

I am not an atheist, although at times I may give the impression that I am. I am a seeker. Open to all. But I'll answer your question with just two words.

DONNER PARTY

In terms of pure survival none of us know what steps we would take to overcome the adversity that confronts us. It is very easy for us to sit here in the comforts of our home and content that we would never resort to such an action. "I would rather die first". But would we? When it comes right down to it, life or death, what steps would you take to stay alive?

JMHO

That's a rather personal question, sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFDgSKbapzY


nsns

bahahahaha.....I should have known you would go there.

Love ya Man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qde2gBphLso


Tales of human survival under dire circumstances never cease to capture our attention. Just last week, the world watched as one-by-one, the Chilean miners were brought up to the surface and reunited with their loved ones. Coincidentally, the miners' story of survival ended exactly thirty-eight years from the day another South American survival story was just beginning. History retells this tale in a new special called I Am Alive: Surviving the Andes Plane Crash.

Whether you were around in 1972 when the news broke that a group of rugby players had survived a plane crash and 72 days in the freezing cold Andes mountains, or you’ve seen the other documentaries, read the books or saw the movie Alive starring Ethan Hawke, there’s a good chance you’ve heard of the story. On October 13, 1972, a charter plane carrying a rugby team and some of their friends and family was headed toward Chile when it crashed in the Andes mountains. 45 people were on the plane, only 16 survived the ordeal. It’s a fascinating story and one that’s sparked much discussion over the years not only because it can be considered a miracle that people could survive in sub-zero temperatures for more than two months with virtually no supplies and only a broken airplane fuselage as shelter, but also because the survivors had to eat the bodies of the dead in order to survive.

Knowing NSNS he has recipes.

quote:

Originally posted by uwsoftball:
But I'll answer your question with just two words.

DONNER PARTY

In terms of pure survival none of us know what steps we would take to overcome the adversity that confronts us. It is very easy for us to sit here in the comforts of our home and content that we would never resort to such an action. "I would rather die first". But would we? When it comes right down to it, life or death, what steps would you take to stay alive?

JMHO

LOL! Do not meddle in the affairs of atheists, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

that's like kicking a puppy

HEY!

Watch that sh!t, cowboy.....

hmmmpfh.....any man that would defile prime rib with ketchup would......wellll....kick a puppy

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qde2gBphLso


Tales of human survival under dire circumstances never cease to capture our attention. Just last week, the world watched as one-by-one, the Chilean miners were brought up to the surface and reunited with their loved ones. Coincidentally, the miners' story of survival ended exactly thirty-eight years from the day another South American survival story was just beginning. History retells this tale in a new special called I Am Alive: Surviving the Andes Plane Crash.

Whether you were around in 1972 when the news broke that a group of rugby players had survived a plane crash and 72 days in the freezing cold Andes mountains, or you’ve seen the other documentaries, read the books or saw the movie Alive starring Ethan Hawke, there’s a good chance you’ve heard of the story. On October 13, 1972, a charter plane carrying a rugby team and some of their friends and family was headed toward Chile when it crashed in the Andes mountains. 45 people were on the plane, only 16 survived the ordeal. It’s a fascinating story and one that’s sparked much discussion over the years not only because it can be considered a miracle that people could survive in sub-zero temperatures for more than two months with virtually no supplies and only a broken airplane fuselage as shelter, but also because the survivors had to eat the bodies of the dead in order to survive.

Those ya'll are talking about are EXTREME EXAMPLES.. not the norm. Those things are everyday occurances in the wild. However, we as humans view that as horrid events. Why? Why ONLY HUMANS?? That's the question. NSNS and Uno talk so much about scientific evidence for this, or you gotta be able to test that... What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone. Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?

quote:

Those ya'll are talking about are EXTREME EXAMPLES.. not the norm. Those things are everyday occurances in the wild. However, we as humans view that as horrid events. Why? Why ONLY HUMANS?? That's the question. NSNS and Uno talk so much about scientific evidence for this, or you gotta be able to test that... What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone. Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?

Who knows why. Who really cares why. It is what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
...Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?

The answer keeps staring you in the face. It's evolution.
You also ask these questions ignoring the fact that there have been many different types of the human species. All but one type have gone extinct. Most, if not all, of these ancestors and evolutionary relatives were presumably smarter than any other animal during it's time. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, of any of these human types engaging in the behaviors that you only ascribe to modern humans. So let me ask you a question. Why did God allow all the other human lines of his creation to go extinct?

Ahhh, but Peter you said yourself for survival the cat ate the kitten. So we are talking only about cases of "survival". Would it be the norm for the cat to eat her kitten if other food was available?

So Peter, it begs the question.....if you were stranded in the Andes with Slim and Puppy and no hope of immediate rescue, no food and for purely survival purposes only-who would you eat first?

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
...Why is that? Why only humans? Out of the billions of species of life that has wandered the earth at one point or another, why only humans to develop this level of intellect and common sense which can override primal instinct?

The answer keeps staring you in the face. It's evolution.
You also ask these questions ignoring the fact that there have been many different types of the human species. All but one type have gone extinct. Most, if not all, of these ancestors and evolutionary relatives were presumably smarter than any other animal during it's time. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, of any of these human types engaging in the behaviors that you only ascribe to modern humans. So let me ask you a question. Why did God allow all the other human lines of his creation to go extinct?

The God question is invalid on it's face and has no merit. You aren't asking as if you really want to know, you are asking because you don't understand the Bible or God's creation.

As for evolution... that doesn't explain anything. That's not scientific facts which explain why humans are so different. Unless you are speaking of the evolution of society, in which case that would be valid and easily traced. As for inellect, logic, and emotion, where is the scientific proof that it just happened to humans? That's my point. To be an atheist means you don't believe in a soul that resides in every human being. So there has to be something else under your belief system that makes us the way we are. I believe God created us, thus instilling us with the qualities that make us the top of the food chain. What caused this tremendous leap in intelligence based off of only scientific fact?

quote:

Originally posted by uwsoftball:
Ahhh, but Peter you said yourself for survival the cat ate the kitten. So we are talking only about cases of "survival". Would it be the norm for the cat to eat her kitten if other food was available?

So Peter, it begs the question.....if you were stranded in the Andes with Slim and Puppy and no hope of immediate rescue, no food and for purely survival purposes only-who would you eat first?

Actually it was only for survival to the cat. It had the kittens under the steps on a porch. It could have easily walked out and eaten from the bowl it had every day of it's life. Yet, intead it chose to eat one of it's kittens. If I'm stranded with those you mentioned, number one, it's different because they aren't my children, and number two, if there is a McDonalds just down the way, I'd choose to go to the McDonalds.

Ahh...Peter. True, they are not your children, but we see cases repeately of mothers taking the life of their child. Albeit, suffering from post partum for the most part. Yet, how do we know whether or not your cat was suffering from post partum? Impossible question to answer I know, but when I get home tonight I'll ask my dog. He has spent a lifetime studying cats and I'm quite sure he could offer us some insights as to their behavior.


But again, you are stranded, no food, no hope of rescue, no McDonald's down the road, purely self preservation-who would you eat first?

As for me, no way I'm getting on a plane with puppy that has charted a course over the Andes. He's already stated he thinks I would be quite tasty with ketchup.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
bowman, while religion is certainly a "worldview" atheism is not.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I never mentioned religion, but worldview. A worldview is the framework from which we view reality and make sense of life and the world. Geisler lists seven historical worldviews: atheism, deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, finite godism, and polytheism. ..... To me, it would be interesting to see what affects that worldview has on a person's life as compared to a deist, theist, or pantheist..

"Geisler" appears to be fundamentalist. Fundamentalists seem to have a fixation on putting atheism in the same philosophical "bucket" as other religions. i believe this is an attempt to make atheism just as full of foible and folly as any other religion. that just doesn't work on a number of levels.

demonstration: you are a christian, I presume, with a christian worldview. from that, i can make some very general assumptions about you without knowing you at all such as: you believe in the sanctity of life and of marriage. you believe you are going to meet loved ones when you ascend into heaven. you are probably a republican. when you have a moral dilemma, you pray to your god for guidance. you try to emulate jesus as much as you can and, like all sinners, constantly fall from grace.

not all of those will apply to you, of course, but many have to apply or you would not be a christian.

i'm an atheist. now please tell me what areas of my life are informed by an "atheistic worldview"? you are required to pretend you know nothing else about me except that i do not believe in gods.

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.

I don't agree that Atheism in and of itself is a worldview, but surely you would agree that if a person is an Atheist, it would greatly affect their worldview?

Gross, uw! Surely there's something else edible around. I would melt the snow in my hands and drink it and eat trees & anything living in or around the trees...if if anything is moving around up there that is not human (birds, bugs), dinner is served, buddy.

Ahhh...Joy, that's the point. You are limited to only Slim or Puppy. No bugs, no insects, no trees, no McDonalds down the road, so which one would you eat first? Heh?

Well, they'd need to fill out a questionaire and possibly do a little song and dance first...bahahaha...well?! There's no entertainment there either, right? How long might you have to hang out with the one that's left? Wait! I have a feeling that being the smallest, I might be first on the dinner menu.

May I have a firearm atop my mountain please?

So it comes down to who knows the most show tunes huh?

bahahahahahaa.

Thank you for playing "Lonely on the Mountain". Stay tune viewers for our newest tv programming "Andes Idol-Please Don't Eat Me Joy"

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
What made humans THE ONLY creature to gain superior levels of common sense, logical progression of thought? ALL animals in the wild, birds, lions, tigers, dogs, fish... They all follow primal instinct alone.

peter, this is simply not true.

stupid animals #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...yoeg&feature=related

stupid animals #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Kf3E&feature=related

Stupid animal #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...wEUY&feature=related

Stupid #4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUGT7MdDB4

sorry, lots of elephant things here but his is interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...NvDw&feature=related

and one more famous one. if you havne't seen it, you will cry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAIsHtEn_gI

and here is what happens when a christian tries to test gods will. put this under stupid human #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Lquc&feature=channel

peter, the facts have been in for a very long time. humans are just another animals with a slightly higher level of "intelligence" as defined by us humans.

pretty cool Uno.

Unob, with the exception of that last one, I loved those videos. I am familiar with how elephants care for one another, but that first one with the leopard is AMAZING!

The last video...I guess he skipped over that "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." verse...another example of someone calling themselves a 'Christ'ian but disregarding what Christ taught, which effectively nullifies their claim. Their deliberate actions prove they do not 'strive to be Christlike', which is the meaning of Christian. He didn't just falter like we all do by, for example, getting ticked off in traffic; he confronted a lion. He's a nut.

Slightly higher level of intelligence??? LMAO!!!

yeah, the leopard thing was sweet... awwwwww... but for every one time you see that you see 100 times the leopard eats the baby monkey.

The lion reunion didn't make me cry, but it wasn't all that suprising. Cats are well known for their ability to be domesticated. He was just a big cat. He was raised by those humans, thus, not shocking that he remembered them... also, it wouldnt have been shocking if he killed them where they stood. lol

And yes... that guy was an idiot. But once again, for the couple of morons that would do that, there are millions of folks who would use logical progression of thought and NOT do that.

NONE OF THAT PROVES ANYTHING!! lol

Now, if you showed me that leopard build a foster home for orphaned animals in the wild, NOW WE'D BE TALKIN! lol

If that elephant pulled out some paddles and shocked that dead one, then performed a tracheotomy so it could breath... NOW WE'D BE TALKIN!! LOL

These vidoes do more to prove the MASSIVE gap between humans and animals in the wild than to draw them closer as you obviously think they do.

Once again Uno... This is the EXACT OPPOSITE STANCE YOU WERE USING IN THE ZOOPHILLIA DEBATE... EXACT OPPOSITE!! lol

That was the point I was making then, and only now does it truely get the light shined on it. You stretch your belief so that it covers whatever the topic is, but in the end, you have no proven facts of science as to why humans are so vastly superior to animals. In the end, it's all smoke and mirrors you are trying.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.

I can make very general assumptions about you as well. You may view life as important, but not sacred. You believe man can define marriage as he pleases. You see death as the end of life, therefore there are no loved ones or heaven. Political affiliation is based on whatever feels right. When you have a moral dilemma, you let your conscience be your guide. You try to live the best you can, but shortcomings can be easily rationalized because it's just the natural order of things. It's just who you are.

Now, I know nothing about you. Some of these may apply to you, or I may be way off the mark. I may be completely off base when I say I believe there's a void in your life you can't seem to fill; that there are nagging questions about life that knowledge and science can't answer; and that there are times when you feel completely alone. I'm not saying this to upset you or offend you. I hope that's not the case. I'm not saying this with a condescending attitude, but with all humility. I am saying this because I'm genuinely concerned for you and I hope you read this in that context.

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.

I can make very general assumptions about you as well. You may view life as important, but not sacred. You believe man can define marriage as he pleases. You see death as the end of life, therefore there are no loved ones or heaven. Political affiliation is based on whatever feels right. When you have a moral dilemma, you let your conscience be your guide. You try to live the best you can, but shortcomings can be easily rationalized because it's just the natural order of things. It's just who you are.

Now, I know nothing about you. Some of these may apply to you, or I may be way off the mark. I may be completely off base when I say I believe there's a void in your life you can't seem to fill; that there are nagging questions about life that knowledge and science can't answer; and that there are times when you feel completely alone. I'm not saying this to upset you or offend you. I hope that's not the case. I'm not saying this with a condescending attitude, but with all humility. I am saying this because I'm genuinely concerned for you and I hope you read this in that context.

You just described every human on earth at one time or the other.

quote:

Originally posted by bowman:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

if atheists have a "worldview" then you should be able to predict my stance on a number of topics.

I can make very general assumptions about you as well. You may view life as important, but not sacred. You believe man can define marriage as he pleases. You see death as the end of life, therefore there are no loved ones or heaven. Political affiliation is based on whatever feels right. When you have a moral dilemma, you let your conscience be your guide. You try to live the best you can, but shortcomings can be easily rationalized because it's just the natural order of things. It's just who you are.

world·view (wûrldvy) n.
1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group.

bowman, this appears to be an astrologer's approach to human nature. all those attributes you named could apply to just about anyone, even Christians.

if you must know, i have a few worldviews as they are defined above. the most prevalent is a skeptical/scientific worldview. it is through this worldview that i came to question my religion. i use skepticism quite often in as many areas of my life as possible. i question everything. so you are necessarily correct about many of the attributes you listed. no, i do not believe marriage is sacred. although i used to be a defender of the institution of marriage, i could never find a way to satisfactorily remove the right for two consenting adults to love each other. yes, i let my conscious be my guide when faced with a moral dilemma but so does every other human on the planet. the difference is that i apply skepticism as much as possible in determining right and wrong and not rely in he whisperings of a god that does not exist.

my political worldview (affiliation) is libertarian. most people do not understand the concept but it revolves around individual freedom. i believe it to be the only logical choice for a skeptic. the majority of atheists seem to be liberal. i think that has more to do with a (thoroughly documented) correlation between higher intelligence and liberalism. i know, that is counterintuitive and i wish that were not the case but the data is pretty clear.

i have a constitutional worldview when it comes to law. i believe our founding fathers knew what they were doing when they wanted to protect the freedoms of all american to worship (or not) as they choose and keep religion our of the government.

so i have many worldviews, as do you. but atheism is a component of my skeptical worldview, not a worldview in an of itself.

quote:

I may be completely off base when I say I believe there's a void in your life you can't seem to fill; that there are nagging questions about life that knowledge and science can't answer; and that there are times when you feel completely alone.

hah! oh man you have no earthly idea. i am the luckiest man alive with a beautiful and smart wife, kids who mostly stay out of trouble and hobbies ans interest that are varied and challenging. this little forum gives you a very small glimpse of one single facet of my personality--the one that loves a good intellectual debate that might cause me to learn something. that's it. nothing more or less. when i turn this computer off, the brash atheist becomes a normal but very happy, fulfilled guy.

the answers that science has not yet provided are challenges, not voids. i relish reading about a new discovery that "changes everything." the Great Questions of where we came from and where we are going have been mostly answered but the voids of our knowledge is still vast and deep. i just can't wait for some smart person to delve deeper into those voids and shine the light of reason upon them.

but i do pity those who have shed reason in exchange for superstition. you seem to be a pretty smart person but you have blinders that were implanted on you long ago that will not allow you to understand the things i have studied. all cool with me, of course, but it seems such a waste.

we could be sailing to the stars by now if religion was erased long ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

You just described every human on earth at one time or the other.

Great point, Jennifer, and I agree with you. It was a pretty good description of myself earlier in life.

Not a single person caught the Monty Python reference.

Sad.

Aw...so sorry, Nash...I think I might have been out of pocket when you wrote that or I'd have gotten it. That's my story and I'm st..sticking to it, anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Once again Uno... This is the EXACT OPPOSITE STANCE YOU WERE USING IN THE ZOOPHILLIA DEBATE... EXACT OPPOSITE!! lol

Nope. What uno and me and others were trying to get across to you was that animals could not consent. Neither can a human on life support. Communication and awareness are vital to consent. You say humping on your leg is consent, yet in the the society of canines that is most often a sign of dominence. You will even see females humping on males.

What you are asking here is why Humans developed certain traits that other animals did not. Why are we special? That all depends on what you consider special. We can't fly. Why did your god give that ability to birds and leave us flightless? We don't have the strength of the Lion. Why did god make us so physically weaker than most other predators? Why do some animals have the ability to see objects on a level I could only dream of?

As A. told you. The answer to all your questions is in evolution. We evolved in certain areas as humans because of our weak bodies and many other inferior physical traits that forced us to think more to stay alive. Other animals could rely on their brute strength and evolved in ways we did not.

This is 9th grade biology Peter.

Humans are not vastly superior in anyway other than intellilect and even in that area I think Dolphins have us beat.

You should look into people who have relationships with Dolphins. That would be something that would truly interest someone with your obsession of human\animal sex.

quote:

That was the point I was making then, and only now does it truely get the light shined on it. You stretch your belief so that it covers whatever the topic is, but in the end, you have no proven facts of science as to why humans are so vastly superior to animals. In the end, it's all smoke and mirrors you are trying.

What was your point again? It changes so often I can never be sure which point you feel you have made. Oh and another thing no one can give you an answer to your question "why humans are so vastly superior to animals" until you get more specific. In what area are you talking about? As I pointed out there are many areas that humans are far less superior than other animals.

You know the old saying "There is no such thing as a stupid question?" That is a lie.

Jank

The atheist doctrine cannot prohibit atheist candidates from having sex with farm animals for they practice the belief that morals of the Bible are hogwash and it’s up to the individual to decide what casting God aside and living life to a degree of happiness consists of.

Peter is right to suspect foul play in your reasoning.

Um..."Eww."

Does anybody else besides me notice the fact that the fundies seem really obsessed with the idea of boinking farm animals?

And they call ATHEISTS evil!?


/shrug

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

but i do pity those who have shed reason in exchange for superstition. you seem to be a pretty smart person but you have blinders that were implanted on you long ago that will not allow you to understand the things i have studied. all cool with me, of course, but it seems such a waste.

So, due to my beliefs being different than yours, I am intellectually inferior to you? I'm sure you have studied things I haven't, just as I have studied things you haven't. But that doesn't give me the right (or ability) to determine your level of intelligence. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
I question things as well. There was time when I also questioned my religion, but couldn't find sufficient answers outside of it. So what was your religious affiliation before you became a naturalist?

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Once again Uno... This is the EXACT OPPOSITE STANCE YOU WERE USING IN THE ZOOPHILLIA DEBATE... EXACT OPPOSITE!! lol

Nope. What uno and me and others were trying to get across to you was that animals could not consent. Neither can a human on life support. Communication and awareness are vital to consent. You say humping on your leg is consent, yet in the the society of canines that is most often a sign of dominence. You will even see females humping on males.

What you are asking here is why Humans developed certain traits that other animals did not. Why are we special? That all depends on what you consider special. We can't fly. Why did your god give that ability to birds and leave us flightless? We don't have the strength of the Lion. Why did god make us so physically weaker than most other predators? Why do some animals have the ability to see objects on a level I could only dream of?

As A. told you. The answer to all your questions is in evolution. We evolved in certain areas as humans because of our weak bodies and many other inferior physical traits that forced us to think more to stay alive. Other animals could rely on their brute strength and evolved in ways we did not.

This is 9th grade biology Peter.

Humans are not vastly superior in anyway other than intellilect and even in that area I think Dolphins have us beat.

You should look into people who have relationships with Dolphins. That would be something that would truly interest someone with your obsession of human\animal sex.

quote:

That was the point I was making then, and only now does it truely get the light shined on it. You stretch your belief so that it covers whatever the topic is, but in the end, you have no proven facts of science as to why humans are so vastly superior to animals. In the end, it's all smoke and mirrors you are trying.

What was your point again? It changes so often I can never be sure which point you feel you have made. Oh and another thing no one can give you an answer to your question "why humans are so vastly superior to animals" until you get more specific. In what area are you talking about? As I pointed out there are many areas that humans are far less superior than other animals.

You know the old saying "There is no such thing as a stupid question?" That is a lie.

Great debatable post there Jank...

Uno obviously didn't want to touch my response because he knew I caught him in a contradiction. His entire point on this tread was that humans are only "SLIGHTLY" more intellegent than animals in the wild. So, if they possess that level of intel, then he would be able to draw the conclusion that they could give consent. If a leopard using "human like" emotion to take care of the baby monkey, then why couldn't that same leopard use "human like" emotion to consent to the deed with a human? Once again, it's stretching ya'll's blanket of belief to cover anything you feel you need it to, even if they are OBVIOUS contradictions.

And what I'm talking about is NOT certain traits, it's intellect. Humans are not "SLIGHTLY" more intelligent than animals... we are VASTLY more intelligent. You ask, why can birds fly and we can't... ask God when you see him. But what we do know is... WE CAN BUILD FREAKING AIRPLANES!!! LOL..Why aren't we more powerful than a lion? WHO CARES?? WE CAN BUILD A MULTITUDE OF DIFFERENT WEAPONS THAT CAN KILL A LION WHERE IT STANDS!! coyotes aren't stronger than a lion alone, but 10 of them could kill a lion. on the flip side, 10 lions and 10 coyotes could all be killed by 1 human due to our vastly higher levels of intelligence that allows us to build and operate weapons. WE ARE THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN DUE TO INTELLECT. That's my point.

I love this point you made... I hear all the time.."When you can't explain something you just insert "GOD" to make it work." THAT IS THE EXACT SAME THING YOU GUYS DO WITH EVOLUTION! lol
You have no explanation as to WHY ONLY HUMANS developed this level of intellect, emotion, and logical progression of thought... ZERO explanation as can be proved by science that "evolution" caused it. That's just the chosen blanket you guys are going with to cover it, but it doesn't PROVE with facts the answer... "Why only humans?"

The point is, I hear... WE ARE ANIMALS IDIOT... Then when it comes to zoophillia even an atheist will talk about morality, which shouldnt exist. Ya'll scratch and claw and yelp about the HUGE divide between humans and animal... But then, once again, we get this type of discussion where all I hear is an atheist saying that ... HUMANS ARE JUST SLIGHTLY EVOLVED ANIMALS IN TERMS OF INTELLIGENCE.

In the end, you are going off a faith in theories of science. You have no answer to the question of WHY ONLY HUMANS developed such higer levels of intelligence and emotion. All you do is throw the "evolution" blanket over it while calling someone an idiot for saying "God did it." The only difference in those two is that one is saying "God created it with a plan", while the other is saying "nothing did it randomly".

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:
Not a single person caught the Monty Python reference.

Sad.

Wellllllll......someone of us got it, but then you threw in "Free Bird" and "Bed, Bath & Beyond".....our minds were reeling from that deluge

Bowman, don’t fret too much about these atheist candidates and their ejaculations of ignorance.

I have had these candidates under my study for years on here.

First, they are in denial.

Second they self medicate.

Third’ paranoia sets in when the booze don’t work.

Fourth, bi-polar tics of sudden rage, aggression directed at society as a whole resulting in withdrawal and inventions of relations with the imaginary.

Fifth, they are easy targets for the fringe where they huddle in secret like quail with their tails together, big eyed staring out in anticipation for some transfiguration away from their hell guided by the hand of dawkins the lesser.

Do you believe that primitive humans had these powerful weapons? Come on Peter. Follow the logic.

I did answer you, and I will answer you again. We developed our intellect to make up for our physical weakness.

What you fail to see, or refuse to see is that evolution does have facts to back it up. Tested, tried and true. Creationism has no such thing. They are not equal in anyway.

Have you looked into the dolphins? How bout octopus? These creatures are as smart if not smarter than humans. Have you seen the work the military is doing with dolphins? Amazing stuff.

We are not VASTLY more intelligent than all other animals. Before you argue so strongly on a subject be sure and get your facts straight. The bible is not a science book so in this debate it can not be used to demonstrate your point.

Consent is way more than intelligence. Actually you can be as dumb as a box of hair and consent to sex. Animals can't consent due to the lack of communication and understanding. Why is that so hard for you? I actually think you understand, but just keep clinging to your same argument because you have painted yourself into a corner and have nothing else to offer.

Human morals are not horse morals, or cow morals, or any other animals morals. They are ours. Animals have their own set of morals. We may never understand exactly how they think. We have not gotten smart enough yet to communicate on that level with other animals. What we do know from observation is that they have emotions, compassion and care for their own. As with other species as well. I have seen dog raise kittens. It didn't have to. It chose to. Why do you think that is? Have you ever seen the video of the two dogs on the freeway? One is hit by a car and the other keeps risking its own life to drag the injured one to the side of the road. It never gave up. Why would it do that? If it functioned on survival instincts alone (as you have stated) it would have left the other dog behind and made it to safety.

Dog saves dog

quote:

Uno obviously didn't want to touch my response because he knew I caught him in a contradiction. His entire point on this tread was that humans are only "SLIGHTLY" more intellegent than animals in the wild. So, if they possess that level of intel, then he would be able to draw the conclusion that they could give consent. If a leopard using "human like" emotion to take care of the baby monkey, then why couldn't that same leopard use "human like" emotion to consent to the deed with a human? Once again, it's stretching ya'll's blanket of belief to cover anything you feel you need it to, even if they are OBVIOUS contradictions.

You're getting kinda creepy by sticking to the bestiality thing. Humans are animals. A higher evolved animal in lots of ways, less in some such as speed, strength, and a few others, yes you're right. We use our brains to grow our food and use tools for other things. Now why nature evolved US in this way no one can say. It happened and it is what it is. Cats breed with cats, dogs with dogs, lions with lions and so on and so on. Just because humans have the working parts and CAN have sex with animals means nothing. Nature gave all animals the instinct to only breed with their species. Now most humans follow that instinct and sex with animals is repugnant to them. In the lower animal kingdom it isn't especially repugnant, it's their instinct that keeps them from attempting it, and if you see a male animal "humping" another male it's an act of asserting dominance. Of course you have the whacked out faction of humans that do engage in sex with animals. They know it's against nature but who knows what goes on in the minds of people when they do that.

Humankind as a whole is repulsed by it, but some sick a**es pay to see it. Humans having sex with animals is as wrong as any other offense against nature such as murder and abuse, but some f***ed up humans do those things. The majority of the human society ostracizes the offenders and rightly so. For some reason you want an explanation for why we evolved the way we did, and again no one knows, it just happened that way. And since we can't explain WHY (not how, we know how) nature evolved humans you seem to think that means "god did it". Well peter, if god did it why didn't he make those instincts stronger in humans so the sickos wouldn't do crimes against nature? You'd have us believe that although he wouldn't let animals breed outside their species for some odd reason he didn't make human instinct strong enough to prevent it. THAT is what doesn't make sense if you insist a god made us.
************************************************


The point is, I hear... WE ARE ANIMALS IDIOT... Then when it comes to zoophillia even an atheist will talk about morality, which shouldnt exist.
************************************************
Why do you say morality shouldn't exist? Do you mean atheists shouldn't be moral? Why would you think that? Atheists have the same instincts as christians when it comes to getting along in society. Human nature/instinct is strong in most people no matter what they do or do not believe, and they follow it because it feels right and it feels good to do so. And the people that go against that can be believers or non-believers. Christians don't "own" morality.

quote:

The point is, I hear... WE ARE ANIMALS IDIOT... Then when it comes to zoophillia even an atheist will talk about morality, which shouldnt exist. Ya'll scratch and claw and yelp about the HUGE divide between humans and animal... But then, once again, we get this type of discussion where all I hear is an atheist saying that ... HUMANS ARE JUST SLIGHTLY EVOLVED ANIMALS IN TERMS OF INTELLIGENCE.

You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Uno obviously didn't want to touch my response because he knew I caught him in a contradiction.

i didn't bother because you are too stupid to grasp a simple concept. there, i said it.

the previous debate was about your obsession with farm animal sex and how it was "wrong" for a human to copulate with a animal. you insisted that god implanted that moral concept. i stated that it was wrong because consent cannot be given - no god necessary.

THIS debate is about morality and intelligence in animals. i posted links to animals behaving strangely un-instinctual with elephants "mourning" over the bones of a dead relative, of a cougar coddling the offspring of a mother-monkey she had killed and a big hug from a lion who was "happy" to see his friends again.

not all animals are "instinctual" as you keep claiming. some are very smart. some are probably much smarter than we can imagine but we have not found ways of measuring such alien intelligence (thinking whales and dolphins here). all this is abundantly clear from anyone with half a brain that studies the issue even casually - but it's completely lost on your because of your religion.

humans are smart by our standards but i'd like to see you survive for a day, much less a lifetime in the jungle. tigers are geniuses when it comes to their environment.

quote:

You have no answer to the question of WHY ONLY HUMANS developed such higer levels of intelligence and emotion.

yes, we are "smarter" because, yes, we can build airplanes. brilliant observation. our intelligence evolved as a survival trait long ago when our ancestors came down from the trees and had to devise ways to feed themselves in the savannas of africa. it has been discovered that many monkeys are much better tool users than we ever imagined. that requires INTELLIGENCE, peter.

look, peter, intelligence is associated with the ratio of body mass to brain size. an animalscan have a huge brain but if it has a corresponding huge body, intelligence takes a hit. this is widely demonstrated all across the spectrum of animals life. we humans evolved a large brain coupled with a small body. we pay for that ability with babies having heads so large that they are, technically, born before they are really ready for the real world and are utterly helpless for a long period of time. our jaws have evolved smaller and smaller since we do not live on a diet of nuts anymore so large jaw muscles are selected against (evolutionarily speaking). as a result, we have problems with wisdom teeth that crowd our mouth and must be pried out when we reach adulthood.

of course you will claim all this is just a matter of faith. sadly, you are not capable of grasping these concepts. there is a cure for stupidity. it's called "a textbook."

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Uno obviously didn't want to touch my response because he knew I caught him in a contradiction.


i didn't bother because you are too stupid to grasp a simple concept. there, i said it.

Oh you did it now! He was bad enough before you said it! How many times can you explain something? I think he does "get it" he just doesn't want to admit he does. He thinks that will be admitting defeat.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

hi jen. i probably have. he IS an idiot. i tried to be patient for a while but he has demonstrated a fantastic level of self-imposed ignorance.

and i'm NOT saying all christians are stupid, by the way. i used to be one. but some are hopless. there is only one or two other people here that are so pathetically stupid as this dude.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I think he does "get it" he just doesn't want to admit he does.

sorry, i disagree, jen. he has a incredible inability to connect the dots of logic. i suppose that is due to the large, vacant areas of ignorance between said dots.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Bowman, don’t fret too much about these atheist candidates and their ejaculations of ignorance.

I have had these candidates under my study for years on here.

First, they are in denial.

Second they self medicate.

Third’ paranoia sets in when the booze don’t work.

Fourth, bi-polar tics of sudden rage, aggression directed at society as a whole resulting in withdrawal and inventions of relations with the imaginary.

Fifth, they are easy targets for the fringe where they huddle in secret like quail with their tails together, big eyed staring out in anticipation for some transfiguration away from their hell guided by the hand of dawkins the lesser.

bump

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

The point is, I hear... WE ARE ANIMALS IDIOT... Then when it comes to zoophillia even an atheist will talk about morality, which shouldnt exist. Ya'll scratch and claw and yelp about the HUGE divide between humans and animal... But then, once again, we get this type of discussion where all I hear is an atheist saying that ... HUMANS ARE JUST SLIGHTLY EVOLVED ANIMALS IN TERMS OF INTELLIGENCE.

You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

look at the post just under the one of yours I'm quoting.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

hi jen. i probably have. he IS an idiot. i tried to be patient for a while but he has demonstrated a fantastic level of self-imposed ignorance.

and i'm NOT saying all christians are stupid, by the way. i used to be one. but some are hopless. there is only one or two other people here that are so pathetically stupid as this dude.

Uno.. you HAVE NO ANSWER AS CAN BE PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

So keep being a punk internet tuff guy and call me whatever you like. There is no answer. Jennifer said it as well.. Why, no one knows, but it is what it is... that paraphrases what she said. Is she an idiot too?

All I know for a fact is, you wouldn't talk to me this way in person, thus you shouldnt type it on your computer. But if you disagree with this, PM me a location and we'll get together for a chat. Otherwise, drop the name calling BS. Only and idiot resorts to name calling simply because they can't make a valid point.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Bowman, don’t fret too much about these atheist candidates and their ejaculations of ignorance.

I have had these candidates under my study for years on here.

First, they are in denial.

Second they self medicate.

Third’ paranoia sets in when the booze don’t work.

Fourth, bi-polar tics of sudden rage, aggression directed at society as a whole resulting in withdrawal and inventions of relations with the imaginary.

Fifth, they are easy targets for the fringe where they huddle in secret like quail with their tails together, big eyed staring out in anticipation for some transfiguration away from their hell guided by the hand of dawkins the lesser.

bump

Ya know buffy, with all the other atheist on here having you on ignore, I am probably the only one that ever sees these kind of post by you.

I deny nothing that has real evidence.
I do not take medications not prescribed by a dr.
About the only thing I am a bit paranoid about is the safety of my children.
I am very calm, even tempered, and I have no relationship with anyone imaginary (sounds like another group represented on here though)
You have probably read more of Dawkins books and articles than I have. I have no idea what the rest of number 5 is supposed to mean.

Since I am the only one that is still reading your post could you think about not making such blanketed statements about all atheist?

Others may not understand why I call you friend. I can understand why that is. All they see is this kind of thing from you. I wish they knew the same guy I did. Regardless I will keep you.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Uno obviously didn't want to touch my response because he knew I caught him in a contradiction.


i didn't bother because you are too stupid to grasp a simple concept. there, i said it.

Oh you did it now! He was bad enough before you said it! How many times can you explain something? I think he does "get it" he just doesn't want to admit he does. He thinks that will be admitting defeat.

Answer me this Jenn... What is there to "get"?

There is no scientifically proven answer as to why ONLY HUMANS have the vastly superior levels of intellect and emotional capactiy. None.... thus, anyone saying I'm wrong is going off of specualation, not fact. Even if I am only speculation there is a God, it's still no different from speculating that "evolution" is the reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

hi jen. i probably have. he IS an idiot. i tried to be patient for a while but he has demonstrated a fantastic level of self-imposed ignorance.

and i'm NOT saying all christians are stupid, by the way. i used to be one. but some are hopless. there is only one or two other people here that are so pathetically stupid as this dude.

Uno.. you HAVE NO ANSWER AS CAN BE PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

So keep being a punk internet tuff guy and call me whatever you like. There is no answer. Jennifer said it as well.. Why, no one knows, but it is what it is... that paraphrases what she said. Is she an idiot too?

All I know for a fact is, you wouldn't talk to me this way in person, thus you shouldnt type it on your computer. But if you disagree with this, PM me a location and we'll get together for a chat. Otherwise, drop the name calling BS. Only and idiot resorts to name calling simply because they can't make a valid point.

I won't meet you after school in the parking lot to fight, but if you were standing in front of me saying the same ignorant things you have here....well then I would say that you are an idiot. To your face. Out loud for everyone to hear. Sometimes you just got to call a spade a spade.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. *LOL*

quote:

Answer me this Jenn... What is there to "get"?

quote:

Answer me this Jenn... What is there to "get"?

There is no scientifically proven answer as to why ONLY HUMANS have the vastly superior levels of intellect and emotional capactiy. None.... thus, anyone saying I'm wrong is going off of specualation, not fact. Even if I am only speculation there is a God, it's still no different from speculating that "evolution" is the reason.

Then believe in your god and get off the nasty beastiality kick. I notice you didn't answer my questions. You pulled the BG trick of going in a different direction.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

There is no scientifically proven answer as to why ONLY HUMANS have the vastly superior levels of intellect and emotional capactiy. None....

You are right. There is none. Know why? Because it is not true dimwit.

Where is your scientific proof to back up YOUR claim? Show me a REAL scientific paper saying that humans are vastly superior intellectually and emotionally from all other animals.

Put up or shut up Peter.

I guess it all boils down to one thing, if a god was so magnificent that he could create a universe and all life on it, why did he mess up so bad when he created man? That makes NO sense whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Do you believe that primitive humans had these powerful weapons? Come on Peter. Follow the logic.

I did answer you, and I will answer you again. We developed our intellect to make up for our physical weakness.

What you fail to see, or refuse to see is that evolution does have facts to back it up. Tested, tried and true. Creationism has no such thing. They are not equal in anyway.

Have you looked into the dolphins? How bout octopus? These creatures are as smart if not smarter than humans. Have you seen the work the military is doing with dolphins? Amazing stuff.

We are not VASTLY more intelligent than all other animals. Before you argue so strongly on a subject be sure and get your facts straight. The bible is not a science book so in this debate it can not be used to demonstrate your point.

Consent is way more than intelligence. Actually you can be as dumb as a box of hair and consent to sex. Animals can't consent due to the lack of communication and understanding. Why is that so hard for you? I actually think you understand, but just keep clinging to your same argument because you have painted yourself into a corner and have nothing else to offer.

Human morals are not horse morals, or cow morals, or any other animals morals. They are ours. Animals have their own set of morals. We may never understand exactly how they think. We have not gotten smart enough yet to communicate on that level with other animals. What we do know from observation is that they have emotions, compassion and care for their own. As with other species as well. I have seen dog raise kittens. It didn't have to. It chose to. Why do you think that is? Have you ever seen the video of the two dogs on the freeway? One is hit by a car and the other keeps risking its own life to drag the injured one to the side of the road. It never gave up. Why would it do that? If it functioned on survival instincts alone (as you have stated) it would have left the other dog behind and made it to safety.

Dog saves dog

So we "developed" our intellect to make up for physical weakness... then why don't deer "develope" intellect to make up for their physical weakness? Or any other animal in the wild that is a constant punching bag on the food chain???? WHY ONLY HUMANS? It comes back to that question. Physically we have limitations that we overcome with intellect and common sense, logical progression of thought. So why not the deer?

And you talking about dolphins??? really??? LMAO!! When dolphins create and develop a device that allows them to travel on dry land... holla back at me. Until then, categorize them as a smart animal of the wild, but don't creep them anywhere near humans. That drives my point home all the more. Even when you find "studies" that show high intellect of a particular animal, it still pales in comparison to humans.

And I say that about morals because there cannot be a consistent standard there. Society dictates wordly morals. What's "moral" in America isn't necessarily what's "moral" in China, Canada, India, etc.. There is no moral code of humans on a purely wordly view.

As for communication, once again, that's VERY flawed. Non-verbal communication is a very important aspect of communication. Now, I obviously don't think humans have ever, nor will ever, be able to communicate with animals for consent. But if "evolution" happened, then it is still happening. Will zoophillia ALWAYS be wrong, or could animals develop the ability to communicate with us? Or can they already on some levels, you just don't want to admit to any of it because it pokes obvious holes in your arguement. Once again, if you infer consent from your dog that it desires to play fetch, or eat, or take a nap with you, then how can you say for a fact that you can't infer consent needed in "zoophilia"? Sex is nothing more than a primal urge right? You are putting too much stock in sex when it is simply a function of animals. By the strict worldly view, I'm finding it hard to understand how you can just mark that one off??

I'm not painted in a corner on this topic. I'm very clear as to the roles of humans and animals as discussed in the Bible. Humans were created seperately, and in God's image. Animals were not. We are over the animals on the todem pole of life. From my belief system, there is no way anyone could ever even ask me that question.
But from the purely wordly, atheist's view of it, how can that be? We must be viewed as the same....we all came from the same ooze right? The same rock that came from nowhere, that exploded for no reason, and randomly changed from simplicity to complexity. Why did ONLY HUMANS become so complex? Billions of species, and only humans? You'll have a tough time convincing someone of that without evidence of scientific testing that explains the origin of all... and unfortunately, no scientific theory does that. Only guesses.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
You keep claiming people are calling you an idiot. Unob especially. I've "skimmed" back through some posts and can't find that. Where are the posts?

hi jen. i probably have. he IS an idiot. i tried to be patient for a while but he has demonstrated a fantastic level of self-imposed ignorance.

and i'm NOT saying all christians are stupid, by the way. i used to be one. but some are hopless. there is only one or two other people here that are so pathetically stupid as this dude.

Uno.. you HAVE NO ANSWER AS CAN BE PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

So keep being a punk internet tuff guy and call me whatever you like. There is no answer. Jennifer said it as well.. Why, no one knows, but it is what it is... that paraphrases what she said. Is she an idiot too?

All I know for a fact is, you wouldn't talk to me this way in person, thus you shouldnt type it on your computer. But if you disagree with this, PM me a location and we'll get together for a chat. Otherwise, drop the name calling BS. Only and idiot resorts to name calling simply because they can't make a valid point.

I won't meet you after school in the parking lot to fight, but if you were standing in front of me saying the same ignorant things you have here....well then I would say that you are an idiot. To your face. Out loud for everyone to hear. Sometimes you just got to call a spade a spade.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. *LOL*

Nah.. you wouldn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

There is no scientifically proven answer as to why ONLY HUMANS have the vastly superior levels of intellect and emotional capactiy. None....

You are right. There is none. No why? Because it is not true dimwit.

Where is your scientific proof to back up YOUR claim? Show me a REAL scientific paper saying that humans are vastly superior intellectually and emotionally from all other animals.

Put up or shut up Peter.

How about this...

I'M TALKING YOU YOU THROUG A FREAKIN COMPUTER THAT SENDS THE WORDS I TYPE THROUGH CYBERSPACE AND THEY POP UP ON YOUR COMPUTER...

Is that evidence enough for ya???

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I guess it all boils down to one thing, if a god was so magnificent that he could create a universe and all life on it, why did he mess up so bad when he created man? That makes NO sense whatsoever.

He didn't mess up when he created man. Man messed up by sinning. God created man with free will and decision making abilities. Man made the wrong decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I guess it all boils down to one thing, if a god was so magnificent that he could create a universe and all life on it, why did he mess up so bad when he created man? That makes NO sense whatsoever.

He didn't mess up when he created man. Man messed up by sinning. God created man with free will and decision making abilities. Man made the wrong decision.

Duh. That means he messed up, didn't think it through so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Bowman, don’t fret too much about these atheist candidates and their ejaculations of ignorance.

I have had these candidates under my study for years on here.

First, they are in denial.

Second they self medicate.

Third’ paranoia sets in when the booze don’t work.

Fourth, bi-polar tics of sudden rage, aggression directed at society as a whole resulting in withdrawal and inventions of relations with the imaginary.

Fifth, they are easy targets for the fringe where they huddle in secret like quail with their tails together, big eyed staring out in anticipation for some transfiguration away from their hell guided by the hand of dawkins the lesser.

bump

Ya know buffy, with all the other atheist on here having you on ignore, I am probably the only one that ever sees these kind of post by you.

I deny nothing that has real evidence.
I do not take medications not prescribed by a dr.
About the only thing I am a bit paranoid about is the safety of my children.
I am very calm, even tempered, and I have no relationship with anyone imaginary (sounds like another group represented on here though)
You have probably read more of Dawkins books and articles than I have. I have no idea what the rest of number 5 is supposed to mean.

Since I am the only one that is still reading your post could you think about not making such blanketed statements about all atheist?

Others may not understand why I call you friend. I can understand why that is. All they see is this kind of thing from you. I wish they knew the same guy I did. Regardless I will keep you.

Again let me make this clear: my intention is not to include jank as co-defendant in any of my claims against atheist candidates. All my posts should be viewed with the axiom ‘not intended for Jank, Ed or Jackie. Amen.

Again let me make this clear: my intention is not to include jank as co-defendant in any of my claims against atheist candidates. All my posts should be viewed with the axiom ‘not intended for Jank, Ed or Jackie. Amen.

P.S. Thanks for your unpopular decision in adversity to keep me.

I understand at some point your patience with me could deteriorate to a point where you would deny me.

I have been abandoned on other forums .

I must insist on truth.

I do not see truth in evidence for evolution or most of what science claims as the origin of the universe.

I consider myself to be impartial as to the evidence. After many years of study of all the disciplines of science and mathematics I have concluded that there are too many fabrications of evidence especially in mathematics to abandon a belief in God the Creator.

I do not have the confidence in uno and his aka’s / slim’s familiarity with science to give the two other than I would a nod to Ned. The both have studied some science but their posts on the subject are superficial and riddled with inaccuracies. Pitiful.

I admit the two of them are loud enough but they are both idiots and represent a threat to society.
The alter egos jimi, jenn and opie are in freekin insane. Lol. When uno is in one of these personalities he needs to be fastened securely and fettered to some large mass away from innocent humans and ammanals
Lest he bolt from the reach of authorities into some mischief.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I guess it all boils down to one thing, if a god was so magnificent that he could create a universe and all life on it, why did he mess up so bad when he created man? That makes NO sense whatsoever.

He didn't mess up when he created man. Man messed up by sinning. God created man with free will and decision making abilities. Man made the wrong decision.

Duh. That means he messed up, didn't think it through so to speak.

------------------------------

Jen,,I think what you're missing is God didn't create the way you think
He should. Some day when things are made known to you, and you have a
different understanding, you'll realize why things are way they God
planned them.


.

Uno is right,

You are too stupid to understand or you are just so brain locked that you are a hopeless case. Good luck in life Peter. I have a feeling you are going to need it. Its the weak minded as you say that don't get ahead. You sir are in big trouble. With us at the top and you at the bottom your (and others like you) days can only be numbered. Sad really that you have chosen to be left behind, but at least you have your ancient book of fairy tales to give you comfort. Cling to that, maybe you will not be too trampled as the rest of the world walks right over you to move forward in our human development.

We can't keep trying to help you. You are on your own now. Figure it out or forget about it and rest your primitive little brain. Somethings are just over your head. I understand really I am the same way about quantum physics. Since I can't understand it on a intellectual level I don't try and discuss it with those that do. It would only highlight my ignorance. I prefer to keep reading and learning and listening. Maybe one day I will be able to discuss those things with the big boys...until then I suggest you do as I do. Stop spouting off non sense about something you obviously are not capable of understanding.

Oh yeah I almost forgot again *LOL* (I know how you enjoy those three letters, I like to please the simple minded. I enjoy making others happy. )

I would like to add that this in no way reflects my feelings towards Buffy...Amen. He is special and has earned the right to believe as he sees fit without question from me.

quote:

Jen,,I think what you're missing is God didn't create the way you think
He should. Some day when things are made known to you, and you have a
different understanding, you'll realize why things are way they God
planned them.

Since there is no god I doubt that. I won't know in my lifetime, and it doesn't matter to me. Again you worship something you think created a vast universe and all life, yet a child of 12 could plan it better. If he was so capable of doing that he should have kept at it until he got it right. Let's say you're an artist, you paint a picture and it isn't coming along like you want. Do you leave it and hope it changes, or do you scrap it and start over? Remember now, you have infinite power to make it right, so do you settle or make it perfect?

"Jennifer" has me on ignore so she won't see this, but it isn't LIKE painting a picture. It's more like an ant farm. God made it, WE mess it up.

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
"Jennifer" has me on ignore so she won't see this, but it isn't LIKE painting a picture. It's more like an ant farm. God made it, WE mess it up.

Ono,

You are much better off if the schizophrenics have you on iggy.

I am iggied by the lot myself.

I find it almost unbearable that the have me on ignore. NOT.

I want so much to be subjected to their ignorant BS. NOT

They are weak and my intellect intimidates them.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Uno.. you HAVE NO ANSWER AS CAN BE PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

So keep being a punk internet tuff guy and call me whatever you like. There is no answer. Jennifer said it as well.. Why, no one knows, but it is what it is... that paraphrases what she said. Is she an idiot too?

i don't even know what you are referring to here. animals sex? morality? what?

quote:

All I know for a fact is, you wouldn't talk to me this way in person,

sure i would. but, to be honest, i am scared to meet someone like you in person. you are unstable and often incoherent. so, no, i think i'll pass on the meeting thing. besides, my mom doesn't let me out of the basement much.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Uno is right,

You are too stupid to understand or you are just so brain locked that you are a hopeless case. Good luck in life Peter. I have a feeling you are going to need it. Its the weak minded as you say that don't get ahead. You sir are in big trouble. With us at the top and you at the bottom your (and others like you) days can only be numbered. Sad really that you have chosen to be left behind, but at least you have your ancient book of fairy tales to give you comfort. Cling to that, maybe you will not be too trampled as the rest of the world walks right over you to move forward in our human development.

We can't keep trying to help you. You are on your own now. Figure it out or forget about it and rest your primitive little brain. Somethings are just over your head. I understand really I am the same way about quantum physics. Since I can't understand it on a intellectual level I don't try and discuss it with those that do. It would only highlight my ignorance. I prefer to keep reading and learning and listening. Maybe one day I will be able to discuss those things with the big boys...until then I suggest you do as I do. Stop spouting off non sense about something you obviously are not capable of understanding.

Oh yeah I almost forgot again *LOL* (I know how you enjoy those three letters, I like to please the simple minded. I enjoy making others happy. )

I would like to add that this in no way reflects my feelings towards Buffy...Amen. He is special and has earned the right to believe as he sees fit without question from me.

awwww. I don't have ya'll to help me... dang.. how will I ever make it!? ROLMMFAO And that sums up the narcisitic BS that "most" atheist always spew with. That's garbage...trust me, I don't need you, or want your input. If you dislike mine, you couldve ignored me long ago, I'd never lose a wink.

Once again, you act like you have dropped some huge revelation on me and that I'm too stupid to grasp it... YOU HAVEN'T!!! All you have done is said.. "That's the way we evolved". ATTENTION ALL KNOWING HYPER-INTELLIGENT ATHEISTS.... THAT'S NOT SCIENTIFIC PROVEN FACT!! There is no scientific study that proves why humans are so vastly superior to animals... that study DOES NOT EXIST. All of the animals in the wild share the fact that they are driven off of primal instincts. Humans have primal urges, however, we regularly override those with common sense, logical progression of thought or emotion. Why? If we do not have souls, WHERE DID THIS COME FROM? I'm giving you ample opportunity to lay out the scientific data that could prove your point...but you don't have it! But yeah.. I ask you a question than you are incapable of answering, so I'M the idiot.... hahahahaha!!!
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Bottom line is, I disagree with you guys and think ya'll's beliefs are wacked out too... difference is, I'm not calling you idiots for your belief system. Calling someone a name on a message board is pathetic, and proves nothing. What, do ya'll hope folks reading say... "Ooooo... that jank person and that uno person called that Peter guy an idiot... it must be true.. he's an idiot so they're right..." LMAO!!! I'm sure that's what ya'll hope. This happens everytime. When my point is made, that ya'll DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS, and that ya'll DO NOT HAVE ANY CONCLUSIVE SCIENTIFIC FACTS TO BACK UP MOST OF YOUR ARGUEMENTS.. you once again revert back to... "ah.. you're too dumb to grasp it, you're an idiot.. you're stupid". And you call ME simple minded??? LMAO!!! You can't answer a question with facts needed to prove your belief needs no faith so you revert to the 4th grade tactic of name calling... but I'M simple minded??? That's rich!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
Uno.. you HAVE NO ANSWER AS CAN BE PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

So keep being a punk internet tuff guy and call me whatever you like. There is no answer. Jennifer said it as well.. Why, no one knows, but it is what it is... that paraphrases what she said. Is she an idiot too?

i don't even know what you are referring to here. animals sex? morality? what?

quote:

All I know for a fact is, you wouldn't talk to me this way in person,

sure i would. but, to be honest, i am scared to meet someone like you in person. you are unstable and often incoherent. so, no, i think i'll pass on the meeting thing. besides, my mom doesn't let me out of the basement much.

sounds about right... and nah.. you wouldnt talk to me that way in person.

Peter,


First, deep cleansing breathes. No need to get so upset, or start screaming.

Ok, we have answered your questions. You just don't like the answers. You are the one making the accusation that humans are "VASTLY SUPERIOR IN INTELLIGENCE" I ask you to prove what you are saying and you can't. You will not find a study just as you yourself pointed out that backs up your assertion. Why then do you keep insisting on evidence that you know is not there?

Me and Uno have both shown you where animals have acted *against* their nature instincts. You have not addressed that at all, other than to basically try and say that is not what you are referring to, and then turn right around and make the same ignorant statements again.

I'm sorry that it upsets you to be told that you are ignorant and act like an idiot. There is a cure for that ya know. Its called learning. Scary stuff for someone like you I know.

Now maybe you should go lay down and try to relax. This much excitement will only confuse you further.

quote:

There is no scientific study that proves why humans are so vastly superior to animals...

there is actually a vast amount of research into this. no, we can't travel back in time yet to witness the evolution of the mind but the evidence for evolved intelligence is very well developed. it is still a relatively new field of study (started around 1985-ish). at rick of citing a wikipedia article, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...f_human_intelligence

it has links the the relevant studies that show pretty conclusively that human intelligence evolved as our brain cases grew larger.

Uno,

So you believe that Peter is asking how our intelligence evolved? or is it why we are vastly superior in intelligence to other animals?

quote:

So you believe that Peter is asking how our intelligence evolved? or is it why we are vastly superior in intelligence to other animals?

now that you axed it, i'm not sure.

whatever the case, we do have some pretty good evidence for the hows and whys. one leading theory (with ample evidence) is that intelligence evolved as a result of the challenges of ice ages.

i've got this book in my office that you are welcomed to: The Ascent of Mind, Ice Age Climates and the Evolution of Intelligence "

clipped from the author's website: "Abrupt climate change, not a gradual rise in sea level, is the most threatening aspect of the greenhouse warming: the North Atlantic Current seems to have suddenly turned off its warming and watering of Europe on more than 20 occasions during the last 120,000 years. Though happening as quickly as a drought, these changes last for centuries, even a thousand years in one case. Were that to happen again, 500 million Europeans might want to move elsewhere, quickly. Yet we humans thrive on such challenges: the fickle climate seems to have pumped up our brain fourfold larger than the ape-sized brain -- and that was all walking-upright hominids had, back before the ice ages started 2.5 million years ago. A key aspect of the pump: massive ice sheets create unusual population booms when they melt."

Jank,

Monalisa is always using terms like vast amounts of one thing or another when he doesn’t have a clue.

The one common thing I find in all the courses in psychology I have taken, the many books I have read on human behavior and the many hours of lectures on human behavior I have listened in class and on the internet, is they all immediately desert the human and talk about lower animals.

We are talking about human behavior not animal behavior. It’s no secret ammonals and man have many similar behavior characteristics. FCOL play like you never have seen ammanimals.

You can study human behavior without bringing up common traits with am animals.

What would a study consist of if we visited a planet without amanals?

We would have to say duhh we can’t study you because there no amanals

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

So you believe that Peter is asking how our intelligence evolved? or is it why we are vastly superior in intelligence to other animals?

now that you axed it, i'm not sure.

whatever the case, we do have some pretty good evidence for the hows and whys. one leading theory (with ample evidence) is that intelligence evolved as a result of the challenges of ice ages.

i've got this book in my office that you are welcomed to: The Ascent of Mind, Ice Age Climates and the Evolution of Intelligence "

clipped from the author's website: "Abrupt climate change, not a gradual rise in sea level, is the most threatening aspect of the greenhouse warming: the North Atlantic Current seems to have suddenly turned off its warming and watering of Europe on more than 20 occasions during the last 120,000 years. Though happening as quickly as a drought, these changes last for centuries, even a thousand years in one case. Were that to happen again, 500 million Europeans might want to move elsewhere, quickly. Yet we humans thrive on such challenges: the fickle climate seems to have pumped up our brain fourfold larger than the ape-sized brain -- and that was all walking-upright hominids had, back before the ice ages started 2.5 million years ago. A key aspect of the pump: massive ice sheets create unusual population booms when they melt."

That's a real answer, although it doesn't really answer the question, at least you tried. But it still comes down to this. If you follow that "theory", the question still becomes, why did only humans adapt and evolve during those trying times?

But to the question you and Jank had about what I'm asking. You guys cannot, by rule, believe that humans have a soul. That is the driving force behind Biblical truth. Animals do not have souls, humans do. God breathes a soul into each of us. All of the things we agree on about the differences in humans and animals can be easily explained by the existence of a soul which resides in human beings and not in animals. So, that is my question. If it is not a soul, what is it? And if you have that answer, then why did only humans, out of billions of species which have walked the earth, why did only humans aquire these traits? Traits that are definable in Biblical terms as those associated with a sould. If there is no soul, what is it and why only humans?

Are you saying that Fluffy doesn't have a soul and won't be with me in heaven? Oh My God!!!! You Bastard!!!

quote:

God breathes a soul into each of us.

interesting scientific hypothesis, peter.

so what happens with a maternal twin, peter? does god split the soul in two? how about siamese twins? do they share one soul or each have one?

what happens when you surgically separate siamese twins?

what organ holds the soul or what part of the body does it inhabit? what is it made of? as far as we know, there are only 4 possibilities of energy in this universe: gravity, the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and electromagnetic radiation. which of these forces are soul's made of?

you speak as if you are very educated on the subject of souls so, please, educate us.

Not trying to get in the middle of Peter and Unob's discussion, but besides the ice age, or probably in conjunction with the ice age, I believe man's intelligence was boosted by language. Of course this is not a new idea. Remember in the book 1984, the idea that if you take certain words out of the language, the mind will not be able to think of the concept?

Well, there was an interesting report on the radio this morning indicating that not only ideas, but numbers, are dependent on language.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/...anding-large-numbers


There is evidence that apes, to some extent, and dolphins even more so, are capable of understanding language - not just words, but sentences. Although it hasn't been proven that dolphins use a language of their own (yet), it has been proven that they can LEARN language.

http://www.dolphin-institute.o.../animal_language.htm

So far though, it seems it is only humans who have a rich and complex language, capable of expressing not only facts about the world around us, but also abstract ideas.

Oh yeah, don't forget to tune in to Nova, tonight on PBS. It is a program about "smartness", dealing with computers, substances(!), and animals - including dolphins.

fascinating stuff, ono. there was also this recent news bit on border collies: http://www.newscientist.com/ar...gest-vocabulary.html

synopsis: this particular dog has the same understanding of words as a 3 year old human.

another astoundingly fascinating article on animals intelligence is here. again, borer collies are mentioned but other animals were studies, too:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic....rginia-morell-text/4


and,lastly, a cool video of a common crow fashioning a tool to accomplish a complex task:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbwRHIuXqMU

lots of other amazing crow videos in that link as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

God breathes a soul into each of us.

interesting scientific hypothesis, peter.

so what happens with a maternal twin, peter? does god split the soul in two? how about siamese twins? do they share one soul or each have one?

what happens when you surgically separate siamese twins?

what organ holds the soul or what part of the body does it inhabit? what is it made of? as far as we know, there are only 4 possibilities of energy in this universe: gravity, the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and electromagnetic radiation. which of these forces are soul's made of?

you speak as if you are very educated on the subject of souls so, please, educate us.

Why dodge the question I asked you? I've stated many times that I have no problem admitting my faith in God. As a scientist, or someone who trusts in science, to mark off creation as a possible origin, you'd have to have evidence to back up some other PROVEN FACT. Otherwise, you fall into a faith based belief. I admit my faith in God, and the Bible as His words to us. Thus, I believe in a soul residing in each of us as human beings.
I'm asking you, if I am wrong, what is that "thing" that makes us so different from animals? I believe it is a soul..you cannot believe that by rules of atheism. So, what is it? where did it come from? And why did ONLY HUMANS....aquire it?

quote:

Why dodge the question I asked you? I've stated many times that I have no problem admitting my faith in God. As a scientist, or someone who trusts in science, to mark off creation as a possible origin, you'd have to have evidence to back up some other PROVEN FACT. Otherwise, you fall into a faith based belief. I admit my faith in God, and the Bible as His words to us. Thus, I believe in a soul residing in each of us as human beings.
I'm asking you, if I am wrong, what is that "thing" that makes us so different from animals? I believe it is a soul..you cannot believe that by rules of atheism. So, what is it? where did it come from? And why did ONLY HUMANS....aquire it?

Why do you keep repeating questions after you've gotten the answer? I've been reading your posts, watching you get answers, but you ask the same things over and over. What part of the answers are you having a problem with? You're putting forth your opinions as facts. Opinions peter, remember everyone has them?

quote:

but besides the ice age, or probably in conjunction with the ice age, I believe man's intelligence was boosted by language.

hi ono, the fact is that it was likely a combination of a perfect storm of conditions that led the a relatively rapid increase in our definiotion of intelligence over the course of a few scant million years.

a likely scenario is that our ape ancestos likely used tools just as apes use them today. that led to the ability to carve stone into sharp implements which allowed for vastly increased hunting efficiency. sometime around that same time, fire was discovered. some ape-like creature dropped a piece of meat into the fire and deliciousness ensued. fire allowed us to stay warm during the ice ages and caused us to come up with imaginative ways to survive. only the people who were smart enough to survive lived to be old enough to reproduce resulting in smarter and smarter being.

cooking meat allowed for a highly improved ability to absorb protein and store calories. the brain requires enormous amounts of protein compared to the other organs. with plentiful protein, we suddenly had leisure time to reflect and improve our place in life.

the cranium had to grow to accommodate the rapidly increasing cerebrum. language evolved and, a few million years later, here were are pushing electrons around in order to communicate.

but peter says we were just zapped that way. that seems to be such a slap in the face of our ancestors who sacrificed so much to get us where we are today.

Peter,

I would call that a conscious. We know that some animals are self aware. Chimps, and dolphins are. So who is to say that others aren't also. The reason we can't be certain what they think or how they feel is a lack of true communication. Doesn't mean its not there. All we really have to go on is observation. They videos and links we have provided you shows that many animals act in ways that are not purely instinctual. They obviously have thoughts. Emotions even.

The difference that we have said over and over is that science is not in the business of proving or disproving god. However there is real evidence for evolution. There is real evidence for a 4 to 5 billion year old earth. That is not faith.

What you believe is 100% faith based. No evidence, no testing can be done on it. To compare the two is to not understand the meaning of science. Of course we don't have all the answers to everything. Its silly to throw out everything we do know just because ALL your questions can't be answered. However to put all your "faith" into something that can't be backed up with one shred of evidence, to me is just willful ignorance.

How bout you start answering some of our questions for a change? This discussion needs to go both ways. We have answered you many times over and when we ask a question of you, your answer is another question. Some of the things you have ask can only be answered by you doing some actual educating of your self. You need to start reading more things like this....

Evolution 101

I am seriously not trying to be snarky with you, but some of the questions you have makes it blatantly obvious that you do not understand the simple basics of evolution and the science behind it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
'm asking you, if I am wrong, what is that "thing" that makes us so different from animals?

peter, i ALWAYS answer questions. i've nothing to hide from you, sir. and i do answer all your questions - repeatedly - but you are too ignorant to understand them.

ive answered this one for you before: the absolute only thing that makes humans different from other animals is our evolved intelligence. that's it.

you insist the difference is a "soul" which has no shed of evidence and you blatantly dodged my question of what happens to the souls of twins. in other words, you simply make stuff up to suit your current argument and when pressed, you dodge as you are doing now. the sad thing is that i really don't think that you know you are fooling yourself but you dang sure aren't fooling any of the rational thinkers here.

To say "evolved intelligence" is not an answer as can be proven by facts anymore than my answer of a soul. It's a guess. I'm fine with that being your answer, but you must admit that it is a guess and you really don't have any true evidence to prove any of it as fact. Seriously, that's it...that's all any of this boils down to with me. You can believe what you want and not believe what you don't want. But to discard one theory when your theory doesn't really prove anything different is a rush to judgement. It's that simple. You are an atheist because you don't believe in God. You are not an atheist because science has proven any alternate theory. And if you're answer to so many questions is "We don't really know for sure"...then how can you in good conscience, call someone else an idiot or stupid for believing something different from you? I find it moronic that folks fall for socialism...but the difference is, socialism has proven failure OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, thus going against known failure is backed up by proven facts. However, you may think it's moronic to have faith in a real God, but you have no facts that say that belief is incorrect. Every alternate theory you have has holes in it, and unknowns about the origin, and the difference between humans and all other animals. So without facts that disprove my belief, you can't say for certainty that I'm wrong, thus you look like the fool for calling me one. Get my point?

ps...read the Bible. I've never said it was a science book or that it explains in detail all the mysteries of the universe. I don't care about most of that junk quite frankly. But if you read the Bible, then there were some really intuitive guys that wrote it, wouldn't you say? If you really can't see the ties from the Bible to today, you are just as willfully ignorant about Biblical teachings as you say I am about science. It truely is a blade that cuts both ways.