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Originally Posted by b50m:

LOL, nope, I'm not a Christian semi, you said so.

My bad, I’ll take the hit for that one. I thought you were a Christian because you have implied you were. I knew you didn’t sound/talk like one so thank you for clarifying that

 

As for knowing you, yeah, i think i have figured you out. You are afraid of going to hell for some presumed sin that some wackball preacher told you in the past, therefore, you want to not believe so you listen to the atheists and try to forget God exists, but you can't. If you didn't believe you wouldn't spend so much time picking apart others statements....

No, you don’t know me at all. I’ve never met a wackball preacher, would you like to enlighten me what one is since it seems you have? I don’t  have to TRY to forget Jesus exist. How does someone try to  forget someone they have no proof of????


Pick apart statements of others? I ask questions of others opinions sometimes & why they believe. If I feel they are misleading, then I will speak up. The only one I really come against is Bill Gray, whom pretends to know Jesus but doesn’t. He’s nothing more than a spawn of the devil!

 Matt. 7:22-23 fits Bill to a perfect T. "Therefore by their fruits shall you know them. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And I will profess to them, I never knew you. Go away from me you who work evil."


As for non-believer, you are not, for that would be atheist. As gb said better than me, you have a warped notion of the Bible and have been told the wrong things in the past.

If gb said I have a warped notion of the Bible, that’s just his opinion, doesn’t make it so.

There’s many people that’s non-believers, that doesn’t make them an Atheist. Many non-believers do not have correct knowledge about what it is to be a Christian. Many Christians at one time was a non-believer, but not an Atheist. I suppose I would call myself an agnostic, which is one that does not deny the existence of God & heaven but believes that one cannot know for certain whether or not the two exist. 

 

So for an outspoken and combative non_Christian, all i can say is stop believing the crap you have been told. Any sin can be forgiven. Any one can go to Heaven. God forgives more than we can imagine. Trying to live a life by constantly worrying about minute day to day things is not living.

I wouldn’t say I’m any more outspoken & combative then any others here, even you. I agree with you that any sin can be forgiven, (except for one), that anyone can go to Heaven, & that God forgives more than we can imagine, IF He does exist.

What kind of crap have I been told that I’m supposed to be believing? I don’t live my life constantly worrying, far from it. In fact, my life is very good. I do find it interesting to debate religion with Christians & non-Christians.  I never know when someone might say something that I’ve never thought of before & learn from it. My mind is not closed, I’m willing to learn anything I can.

 

Oh, and for my definition of a Christian, very simple, one who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I haven’t ask you for your definition of a Christian. In fact, you asked me & I gave you the same answer you just gave but you weren’t satisfied with it.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
I don't care; however, everything that I post is true.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Straightdope.com

A Staff Report from the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board 

Was Hitler a Christian?

 

Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [****sm] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared ****sm the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampfin the schools.

First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the anti-Christian side: 

According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A. Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'" 

Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch." 

As Hitler grew in power, he made other anti-Christian statements. For example, he was quoted in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, by Allan Bullock, as saying: "I'll make these ****ed parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews." 

( Hitler was baptized, but that was about the extent of it.)

 

.

 

 

Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by Rramnlimnn_TheGreat:

 

B50m,

 

Did jesus joy send you over here from her heavenly forum to judge others?

 

I think you need to keep your tail over there.

 

You two snakes kicked me off over there and here you are over here spoisn’ to intergalactate Semi.

 

You have your work cut out over there on that flea bitten pack.

 

 

 


 

LOL, you are so pathetic you made up 13 names and emails to try to fake your way into that flea bitten pack, lying through your teeth every time. You got booted every time.

Notice I said for the rest of you atheists and christians to judge, not me, bub. That's all that happens in the religious forum. Every one judges some one else by their own standards which is pure BS.

You should know buff, since you reported Joy because she didn't toe the line the way you wanted.

COC hypocrite is all you are.

 

I told semi to stop believing crap and find the answers for herself, and not on some crappy forum.

 

If she took that as judgement, shoot me.

 

The only snake I have seen is the one with 13 names, buff/deano/redbone/ramm/kitty/ peter etc............


 

You better get back over on the apostoletteJesus Joy’s forum. One of the men might say something vulgar and she will beat you to the draw inventing some reason she was their subject of interest instead of you.

It got so bad Jesus Joy’s old man had to secretly get a screen name and join. I didn’t have a clue from her love of naughty posts by the atheists candidates over there that she was even a wed woman. One of the names you accused me of might have been Mr. b trying to snake in.

She does look like liv tyler though.

 

Let's review:

[semiannualchick]     semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    June 22, 2011 at 10:47 AM
Following your best instincts, trying not to break any commandments, & trying to be good to others doesn’t make a Christian. I know many people that follow those same rules but they are by no means a Christian. I would love to hear what you believe a Christian to be.
BTW, I respect your humble opinion.


semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    June 23, 2011 at 11:57 PM
I believe a Christian is one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ, truly follows His teachings & lives humbly before Him. I know many people that say they believe in Jesus, & call themselves a Christian but they go no further than that.
James 1:26  says that “If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless”.

semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 10:03 AM

I don't think there's anything I could say that would satisfy you. I've been preached to & ridiculed by some of the best that wear the hat. I suggest you read the Bible & see what His teachings are & what He considers "living humbly". None exist in the world today.



b50m offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 11:52 AM
I wasn't asking to 'be satisfied', just what your thoughts were. So if none exist in the world, then I guess we all go to hell. At least that makes all the atheists happy.


[semiannualchick]     semiannualchick offline
Old Faithful
    Yesterday at 5:08 PM
Originally Posted by b50m:
'''''''''''So if none exist in the world, then I guess we all go to hell. At least that makes all the atheists happy.'''''''''''''

They don't believe in Hell, but why do you think that would make them happy? I've never seen an Atheist that would be that cruel.

 

 

You did ask my opinion of a Christian, I have always said I believe in more than one faith (look it up),

I was referring to myself as the outspoken and combative non-Christian, not you (in reference to Jenn's statement), you do believe in Hell or you wouldn't be worried about it, and if you want to claim agnostic you would be the:

Agnostic theism;The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.

 

My humble opinion of course.  Now since you are  happy, not confused and have all the answers, enjoy.

Last edited by b50m
Originally Posted by Rramnlimnn_TheGreat:


 

You better get back over on the apostoletteJesus Joy’s forum. One of the men might say something vulgar and she will beat you to the draw inventing some reason she was their subject of interest instead of you.

It got so bad Jesus Joy’s old man had to secretly get a screen name and join. I didn’t have a clue from her love of naughty posts by the atheists candidates over there that she was even a wed woman. One of the names you accused me of might have been Mr. b trying to snake in.

She does look like liv tyler though.

 

LOL, you really are a sick old man ain't ya? Want to explain the l e s b i a n lover you created for kitty kat? Or the pictures? Joy's husband did not secretly join, we all knew who he was, you just didn't.

You hate the fact that you can't get in so much it's eating you alive.  How dare a WOMAN refuse to do what the great rammlinn asks. Kiss my grits, you perv.

Go back to the biddies on the one you control.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. Not that it really matters much. It just always seems to strike a nerve in Christians when that is pointed out. I could care less if he were Muslim, Christian, or Wiccan. He was evil regardless. The fact is he himself claimed to be Catholic. It is well documented and easily found. I will make it easy for you since you seem to be in need of help with this one.

 

Here ya go.

http://www.google.com/search?q...amp;client=firefox-a#q=hitler+catholic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c3v&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=ivns&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=51MGTpWnBYHagQfCtcHSDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=more-results&resnum=16&ved=0CHsQ6AIwDw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=27b93cf21cbb40b9&biw=1345&bih=538

Oh if I said I read most of the post on this forum I was sadly mistaken for I certainly attempt not to read most of the post.  I'll quickly admit I pass over most of the post so if I missed the one about Hitler here's why.  I don't care a bit for Hitler and I'm not Roman Catholic so had a post about either been posted I would not have read it.  Sorry but just not one of the areas of interest.  If though the post was within one of the other topics (and no I trust your link but didn't read it either but only because I believe you are telling me accurately).  As for the significance of Hitler being Catholic or Christian or if he claimed to be Southern Baptist it would not matter a bit for his actions would have discredited whatever he said he was with regard to Christianity but like with everyone else in here that's for God to determine and not man.  We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
I don't care; however, everything that I post is true.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Straightdope.com

A Staff Report from the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board 

Was Hitler a Christian?

 

Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [****sm] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared ****sm the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampfin the schools.

First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the anti-Christian side: 

According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A. Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'" 

Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch." 

As Hitler grew in power, he made other anti-Christian statements. For example, he was quoted in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, by Allan Bullock, as saying: "I'll make these ****ed parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews." 

( Hitler was baptized, but that was about the extent of it.)

 . 

 

No Dark A, It doesn't matter much.

.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. Not that it really matters much. It just always seems to strike a nerve in Christians when that is pointed out. I could care less if he were Muslim, Christian, or Wiccan. He was evil regardless. The fact is he himself claimed to be Catholic. It is well documented and easily found. I will make it easy for you since you seem to be in need of help with this one.

 

Here ya go.

http://www.google.com/search?q...amp;client=firefox-a#q=hitler+catholic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c3v&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=ivns&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=51MGTpWnBYHagQfCtcHSDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=more-results&resnum=16&ved=0CHsQ6AIwDw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=27b93cf21cbb40b9&biw=1345&bih=538

 

 

 

 

Stalin was atheist. He was responsible for the deaths of millions.

Pol Pot. Same.

Mao. Same.

You are an atheist. They were atheist. Atheists, your "kind" are responsible for murdering millions.

Therefore, YOU are capable of murder.

Right?

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
<Snipped and removed for brevity sake and not for content>

If gb said I have a warped notion of the Bible, that’s just his opinion, doesn’t make it so.

Semi,  Please re-read what you were reading when you felt I said you have a warped notion of the Bible.  Please copy/paste/cite or give me subject, time and date to me and I'll publically apologize to you in front of all because I do not believe I ever said that and more to the point because I don't believe it and therefore I can't believe I said it so I'm banking on it either being someone else saying it and potentially me re-posting it or you mistakenly applying it to me.  Not calling you a lier but I just cannot conceive I said something I didn't believe.  For the record I do not believe you have a warped notion of the Bible.  

 

The only thing I believe I ever said to you, that could be perceived as potentially negative, was that I questioned you about whether you thought you were being consistant in your critical post about when people were attacking others or being disparaging to others.  Actually I think I ask it in the form of a question and didn't make a statement of fact or accusation as on here I try to keep track of that and not make accusations or too many of them anyway.  I do make some but I try to have ample evidence when I do to back it up.  

 

There’s many people that’s non-believers, that doesn’t make them an Atheist. Many non-believers do not have correct knowledge about what it is to be a Christian. Many Christians at one time was a non-believer, but not an Atheist. I suppose I would call myself an agnostic, which is one that does not deny the existence of God & heaven but believes that one cannot know for certain whether or not the two exist. 

 

I don't know if the above was directed to me but I am fully aware that non-believers are totally different than atheist and are not atheist however atheist are by nature non-believers.  No one starts out believing and many are not Atheist in fact Atheist make up a minority I would GUESS.  I also (for Jennifer's benefit) do not believe that most Atheist want to do away (kill, eliminate etc) all people of religion or Christians but I fully believe there are some that do, a small minority and I'll still stand by my original statement that those that do are as dangerous as Hitler for they have the same goal and philosophy as to eliminate one group for the advancement of their chosen group).  

 

I do agree totally with B50m who said that whatever you are looking for I believe you should find in your own search and not through anyone here whether they influence you in a negative or a positive way.  Take what you can from the forum but you ore anyone else's ultimate decision has to be an intimate one of a personal nature.  I say between you and God for I do believe in God and I believe fully that God reveals Himself unto those honestly seeking Him and does so in a most demonstrative way that cannot be misconceived or misinterpreted as being from anyone other than God.  People (Christian, non-Christian, Atheist) whoever are all flawed and non-perfect people capable, able, and frequently make mistakes and errors.  The answers people seek ultimately (I believe) have to come from within and in doing so solidify the individuals decision.  If you make a decision because someone influences you, forces you to, or convinces you then you ultimately will not be satisfied with your choice and that's just an opinion mind you.

 

<snipped for brevity and not for content>

Originally Posted by Blind Melon Chit'lin:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. Not that it really matters much. It just always seems to strike a nerve in Christians when that is pointed out. I could care less if he were Muslim, Christian, or Wiccan. He was evil regardless. The fact is he himself claimed to be Catholic. It is well documented and easily found. I will make it easy for you since you seem to be in need of help with this one.

 

Here ya go.

http://www.google.com/search?q...amp;client=firefox-a#q=hitler+catholic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c3v&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=ivns&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=51MGTpWnBYHagQfCtcHSDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=more-results&resnum=16&ved=0CHsQ6AIwDw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=27b93cf21cbb40b9&biw=1345&bih=538

 

 

 

 

Stalin was atheist. He was responsible for the deaths of millions.

Pol Pot. Same.

Mao. Same.

You are an atheist. They were atheist. Atheists, your "kind" are responsible for murdering millions.

Therefore, YOU are capable of murder.

Right?

Not that it really matters but just thought I would mention that your (very appropriate) post should have been directly to Jimi as he was the one who injected that Hitler was Roman Catholic, in a previous post under this topic.  DA could believe the same but I took his post as educating me as to the initial statement by Jimi since I requested Jimi reinforce his statement with some evidence. Your point about judging others based on actions of people within their "group" or sub-set is rite on though.  

Originally Posted by Rramnlimnn_TheGreat:

wul I never b50m.

honey i can get in there anytime i please. you need to keep your self-righeous self over there with liv tyler, dang that woman iz hawt.

LOL,  now why would you want to you old perv?  Your family life suck? Need something more in your life?  Sicko, just drop dead. You hate women, especially those that don't bow to their master. That COC crap again. Make sure you pray hard tomorrow for all the sins you've committed. I'm not self righteous, as has already been proven, I'm not a Christian.

Last edited by b50m
Originally Posted by gbrk:
<Snipped and removed for brevity sake and not for content>

If gb said I have a warped notion of the Bible, that’s just his opinion, doesn’t make it so.

Semi,  Please re-read what you were reading when you felt I said you have a warped notion of the Bible.  Please copy/paste/cite or give me subject, time and date to me and I'll publically apologize to you in front of all because I do not believe I ever said that and more to the point because I don't believe it and therefore I can't believe I said it so I'm banking on it either being someone else saying it and potentially me re-posting it or you mistakenly applying it to me.  Not calling you a lier but I just cannot conceive I said something I didn't believe.  For the record I do not believe you have a warped notion of the Bible.  

 


 

You need to read my full post to B. She quoted you as saying that about me.

Here is her original post to me.

Originally Posted by b50m: Today at 11:31 am

As gb said better than me, you have a warped notion of the Bible and have been told the wrong things in the past. 

If you said that, I never read it & I usually read your post (unless they're to long).

I believe you when you say you didn't say it. B has a habit of putting words in people's mouth so I take her post as a grain of salt. If you have a problem with it, you should take it up with her.


Semi,  I had a problem with it because I thought you believed I had said it.  I wanted to clear that up and I can assure you I did not make that statement nor do I believe you have a warped notion of the Bible.  Truth be known I don't know what your views of the Bible are or have not ever heard them.

 

As long as you know I never said that about you I'm satisfied.  I don't think B50m was trying to put words in my mouth but when she reads this she can respond to what she was actually referring to as I'd really like to know also since it involved me and that particular statement as to what I said that caused that impression.  

 

If we never know at least YOU know or accept that I never said that about you.  Thanks for the reply.

A complete misunderstanding.  As I showed above in my review of the 'facts', many things have been misunderstood.

 

I was referring to GBRK'S paragraph:

 You almost make it sound like to be a Christian means you have to subject yourself to victorian era rigid conduct requirements.  That's more a denominational doctrine and not what Christ said or not what God said, in the scriptures. 

 

There are definitely Christians who are over judgmental and try to force people to live according to a rigid set of laws or rules they derive from the Law's as given in Exodus.

 

 

GB never used the word warped, that was my use, to simplify things. As for putting words in your mouth semi, no, I didn't do that.  If no one is a Chritian, then no one goes to heaven, so the only place left is Hell. Deduction.

But, this topic has gotten too ridiculous as it is. Started by an atheist to tick off the religious then leaving the rest to fight.

B, if there's no heaven (as atheists believe) why would there be a hell? And why the statement that christians going to a hell would make atheists happy? We've all heard a christian make the statement "Oh that one is going to hell", or "there's a special place in hell for that one" about someone they didn't like.  And they're perfectly satisfied and happy to think that the offending person will be roasting forever. Pity of it too, it could be something very slight that the person did to **** off the christian.

I explained that on the previous page.

Yes, that would make them happy for two reasons.

1. They would be there to see it really did exist. It would boggle their minds to finally realize that they could scientifically examine it.

2. All the 'Christians' they hate would be there too.

 

As for some one saying that person is going to hell, that just BS.  Only God decides that so all the fake Christians can make all the proclamations they want, it doesn't mean anything.What they don't realize is their making those proclamations puts them in a bad light with God. My 'proclamations' were in jest as I really do think that atheist would be amazed if it really did exist. I don't see Hell as the description that Dante had. But I guess I won't know until I die.

As Blood Sweat and Tears said:

I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell.

I wouldn't have any interest in studying it, and I don't think anyone would be sent there simply because I didn't like them. They'd have to be pretty rough customers IMO. True, the thought  of an OBL, or a BTK roasting in a hell is appealing but unfortunately the most we can hope is that the deaths of their ilk are painful, scary, and totally horrible. No just "going to sleep" for them. Far to often we don't even get that, because they may be total barbarians but we have to be gentle with them.

Originally Posted by b50m:

A complete misunderstanding.  As I showed above in my review of the 'facts', many things have been misunderstood.

 

I was referring to GBRK'S paragraph:

 You almost make it sound like to be a Christian means you have to subject yourself to victorian era rigid conduct requirements.  That's more a denominational doctrine and not what Christ said or not what God said, in the scriptures. 

 

There are definitely Christians who are over judgmental and try to force people to live according to a rigid set of laws or rules they derive from the Law's as given in Exodus.

 

 

GB never used the word warped, that was my use, to simplify things. As for putting words in your mouth semi, no, I didn't do that.  If no one is a Chritian, then no one goes to heaven, so the only place left is Hell. Deduction.

But, this topic has gotten too ridiculous as it is. Started by an atheist to tick off the religious then leaving the rest to fight.

It's not a misunderstanding at all, I read it exactly as you wrote it. You didn't say GB never used the word warped or that it was your use of the word. You exact words were "As gb said better than me, you have a warped notion of the Bible and have been told the wrong things in the past". 

I didn't say you put words in my mouth, my statement was that you put words in people's mouth, just as you did GB's by saying he said something he didn't. You need to clarify yourself better than  you've been doing.


As far as Christians going to Hell, there will be millions of them thinking they are going to Heaven but they won't. The Bible speaks strongly against the "lukewarm" Christian & those that call themselves Christian just for show.


This topic has gotten ridiculous only in the fact that people have been misquoted. I haven't seen any fighting as you refer to it, except possibly between you & Rramm. The rest is what I would call a  discussion, though in some cases it could be referred to as a heated discussion.

Originally Posted by b50m:
As for some one saying that person is going to hell, that just BS.  Only God decides that

It' not BS to say someone is going to Hell. You can see the truth in someone by the fruit they bear. If a person bears rotten fruit, they will not go to Heaven. That, my friend, is in the Bible.

 

Matthew 7:15-20 says: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.  A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

 

 

You haven't retracted any of the things you claimed I lied about in my review. But, I GUESS you see what you want to see.

 

So I GUESS you are judging people by their fruit. What if you see things the wrong way?  Lot of that going on.

Since you seem to know all the ways to judge and are judging people, and you seem to know all the ways for a Christian to behave, then I GUESS you have all the answers. A GUESS, mind you, based on the evidence presented here.

 

So tell me, in your best Biblical knowledge, am I going to hell? Because if I am, I need to pack a few things.

Last edited by b50m
Originally Posted by b50m:

You haven't retracted any of the things you claimed I lied about in my review. But, I GUESS you see what you want to see.

 

So I GUESS you are judging people by their fruit. What if you see things the wrong way?  Lot of that going on.

Since you seem to know all the ways to judge and are judging people, and you seem to know all the ways for a Christian to behave, then I GUESS you have all the answers. A GUESS, mind you, based on the evidence presented here.

 

So tell me, in your best Biblical knowledge, am I going to hell? Because if I am, I need to pack a few things.

Ok, I'm confused, what things am I supposed to retract?

Yes, I am judging people by there fruit. There's no way to mistake rotten from good. The Bible says "You will recognize them by their fruits". According to that, you can't make a mistake.

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

Moses already had God talking to him when he parted the Red Sea.

 

God may have been talking to Moses beforehand but did Moses believe before or after he stretched his hand out over the sea that it would part?

When Jesus told the paralytic man to walk, did he believe before or after he stood up & walked?

 

When the blind man walked to the pool to wash his eyes, did he believe before or after?

 

When a person asked Jesus to save him/her, do they believe before or after?

 

When Jesus asked the 10 Lepers to go show themselves to the priest, and as they went they were cleansed, did they believe before they went on their way or after? They had to have some amount of belief to even ask Him for mercy.

b, the basic premise of your post is wrong.  There was no Moses, no Exodus, Israeli archeology has proven this.

 

Like almost all of the bible, his story was taken from earlier mythology, particularly the Babylonian mythology from the Jewish captivity therein.  You could look it up.

 

DF

That is incorrect.  Archeology has not done such.  Sodom and Gomorra was dismissed as fable but i a recent History/National Geographic program I saw where archeologist have found what they fully believe, with a high degree of accuracy, is Sodom.  The same for many other cities or locations.  If you don't want to believe it I'm sure you have your reasons however it's not genuine to make such statements that are incorrect in order to justify your disbelief.  Even if Archeology has not found something doesn't mean it didn't or does not exist anyone can realize that.   

 

What does Sodom have to do with what DF posted? He was speaking on Moses and the supposed exodus. There is no evidence to back up the story in the bible. None. The Egyptians were meticulous in their record keeping. Not one mention of the great exodus can be found. Nothing about plagues. The only place you can find such things is in the bible.

 

Whether an ancient city existed is one thing. A story told in the bible about that city is something else entirely.

 

Also I hope you have that same attitude in the next discussion on Evolution that you had in the above Bold statement. I could be wrong but I was thinking you have made statements that without "the missing link" evolution is false. I may be mixing you up with Bill and if I am then I apologize profusely.

Originally Posted by Blind Melon Chit'lin:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. Not that it really matters much. It just always seems to strike a nerve in Christians when that is pointed out. I could care less if he were Muslim, Christian, or Wiccan. He was evil regardless. The fact is he himself claimed to be Catholic. It is well documented and easily found. I will make it easy for you since you seem to be in need of help with this one.

 

Here ya go.

http://www.google.com/search?q...amp;client=firefox-a#q=hitler+catholic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c3v&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=ivns&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=51MGTpWnBYHagQfCtcHSDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=more-results&resnum=16&ved=0CHsQ6AIwDw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=27b93cf21cbb40b9&biw=1345&bih=538

 

 

 

 

Stalin was atheist. He was responsible for the deaths of millions.

Pol Pot. Same.

Mao. Same.

You are an atheist. They were atheist. Atheists, your "kind" are responsible for murdering millions.

Therefore, YOU are capable of murder.

Right?

Wow! Pretty big assumption on your part. I didn't say anything of the sort. I said I didn't care what his religious views were he was still evil. Whether Christians want to admit it our not the man was a professed Catholic. Did that make him kill millions of Jews, Homosexuals, etc....I don't think so. I was supplying GB with the info he said he wanted. As I said, and then you demonstrated, it seems to strike some kind of nerve in Christians when it is pointed out.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

You haven't retracted any of the things you claimed I lied about in my review. But, I GUESS you see what you want to see.

 

So I GUESS you are judging people by their fruit. What if you see things the wrong way?  Lot of that going on.

Since you seem to know all the ways to judge and are judging people, and you seem to know all the ways for a Christian to behave, then I GUESS you have all the answers. A GUESS, mind you, based on the evidence presented here.

 

So tell me, in your best Biblical knowledge, am I going to hell? Because if I am, I need to pack a few things.

Ok, I'm confused, what things am I supposed to retract?

Yes, I am judging people by there fruit. There's no way to mistake rotten from good. The Bible says "You will recognize them by their fruits". According to that, you can't make a mistake.

I'm confused too Semiannualchick. B50m seemed to come on pretty strong with accusations and sarcastic remarks. Now seems to be blaming the atheist for starting the whole thing. Typical. I am not a Christian but I am able to read and understand what the bible tells it followers to do and to abide by. I agree I have never met a true Christian in all my life.

 

Would I be happy to find myself in a biblical hell along side those who professed to be Christians? Of course not. That is just something that Christians (everyone I have ever met) like to project on others. I would not want anyone to suffer that kind of torture. Well maybe child molesters and the sort...but as Jennifer pointed out we can only hope they pay a price here and now. Eternal punishment is nothing but a wishful thought on the part of religious people. Atheist don't have that kind of hatred and vengeful nature toward our fellow human beings.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
 

Wow! Pretty big assumption on your part. I didn't say anything of the sort. I said I didn't care what his religious views were he was still evil. Whether Christians want to admit it our not the man was a professed Catholic. Did that make him kill millions of Jews, Homosexuals, etc....I don't think so. I was supplying GB with the info he said he wanted. As I said, and then you demonstrated, it seems to strike some kind of nerve in Christians when it is pointed out.

DA


"Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"

Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch."

 

A nerve you might have hit with Melon is you don't listen.

 

.

In the book, Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, by Allan Bullock, as saying: "I'll make these ****ed parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews."

 

.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Keep digging invic and find out who agreed with hitler about the jews. Of course you might not be happy but it will be interesting to see if you post it.

Jen, I know as much or more about it as you and DA. It's all been dug.

Can you dig as many bogus googles as Billie-je? I'm sure you can.

 

I can't volley this crap like some of you can, I don't have the patience to repeat the fourth grade.

You can't tell me anything new about Hitler and many of you won't reconize anything

but what's fun to play with, but that doesn't mean I don't love you like a sister.

Do you still have red hair?

 

Iv

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

<Snipped for Brevity and to reduce amount of space needed >   NOTE -- I Wil Reply within text with BLUE TEXT.

GBRK replied -->  That is incorrect.  Archeology has not done such.  Sodom and Gomorra was dismissed as fable but i a recent History/National Geographic program I saw where archeologist have found what they fully believe, with a high degree of accuracy, is Sodom.  The same for many other cities or locations.  If you don't want to believe it I'm sure you have your reasons however it's not genuine to make such statements that are incorrect in order to justify your disbelief.  Even if Archeology has not found something doesn't mean it didn't or does not exist anyone can realize that.   

 

What does Sodom have to do with what DF posted? He was speaking on Moses and the supposed exodus. There is no evidence to back up the story in the bible. None. The Egyptians were meticulous in their record keeping. Not one mention of the great exodus can be found. Nothing about plagues. The only place you can find such things is in the bible.

 

Whether an ancient city existed is one thing. A story told in the bible about that city is something else entirely.

 

DA,  What Sodom had to do with what DF posted is ... nothing.  The reason I injected Sodom into the discussion is that many "experts" considered that Sodom and Gomorra never existed as well as the story of Lot and their destruction, equivalent to DF stating what he did about Moses and the escape into Egypt.  There are many things mentioned in the Bible that Archeological evidence cannot be found but then later on such evidence is located.  That happend in the case of Sodom as a new HGTV/History etc show broadcast about.  Same with Atlantis in that for years people thought it to be a fable until it was found.  

 

Many things are taken on Faith without evidence ... that's what faith is about.  That's the only reason I brought Sodom into the equation.  BTW .. the program also indicated that the cities met with immediate disaster (from archeological evidence) that killed all the inhabitants at once just like depicted in the Biblical story. They may never find evidence to reinforce, one way or the other, Biblical stories but just as there is NO evidence to support the stories there is NONE to refute them.  One additional comment.  Another program I viewed (I can't remember the name/title or channel, but I mostly watch History & Nat geo) did indicate some evidence that would prove a large group of people wandering in the desert as was told of the nation of Israel.  There is documentation that a large population of Israel was under bondage or inhabited parts of Egypt then disappeared and appeared in Israel later.  How did they get there?  I know you and DF reject it but I do believe the Bible as to how this happened ... by FAITH. 

 

Also I hope you have that same attitude in the next discussion on Evolution that you had in the above Bold statement. I could be wrong but I was thinking you have made statements that without "the missing link" evolution is false. I may be mixing you up with Bill and if I am then I apologize profusely.

I fully admit that I cannot accept the theory of Evolution based on many things and not tied to Religion or my belief in God.  One of the primary problems I have with Evolution, as a vehicle by which all life species got here is not as much with the "missing link" type evidence from fossil records but add to that non-existant contemporary living incremental transitional evidence.  IF Evolution is unintelligent there is no way it knows it has evolved and reached advanced stages for the original primary elements and components said to begin life (in every species) exist today in parts of the world as well as a environment that would promote the same type evolving as was said to have happened over millions of years.  These primary elements are there and the advanced stages are there yet where are the various incremental transitional states at?  Not in fossils but alive, existing, today for us to see and analyze?   

 

We have 100% monkeys and 100% human but we don't see, living, walking or crawling around 10% monkey 90% human along with interspecies communication abilities.  There should be (If Evolution is true) in every life species, existing today, incremental transitional beings so that there doesn't have to be someone piecing bones together trying to make some big jigsaw puzzle fit their theory.  Never mind working out explaining the male/female conception and reproduction process and how that fits nicely into evolution.  

 

The simple (at least to me as it's my personal belief) is that a great many evolutional scientist have to grab onto some GODLESS form of explanation of how all species of Life got here because they refuse to believe in God or some other Intelligent origin.  Frankly I believe it takes more faith to accept evolution as the process all of this got here with all the problems that it introduces as to believe, by faith, that a deity or Intelligent Source was responsible.

 

Forget, also, about injecting DNA into the equation as is it too wild to assume that if all life was created that the creator would have used some common processes or that there would be some common elements in all life forms or species?  Are we Humans trying to tell the Creator how He should create us?  None of us can, beyond doubt, prove to the other the precise and definite vehicle by which all species of life got here.  It also is a matter of Faith.  Faith on the part of the individual as to what they believe and accept of what they are taught, told, or read. 

 

To pronounce something totally unprovable and factual only demonstrates and reveals their own inadequacies and limitations.  Christians, most that is, accept God as the source of Creation however there are some Christians that believe soundly in Evolution but believe that is the process which GOD USED.  I frankly believe the exact process that GOD used will never be proved or known as I believe it's beyond the understanding or comprehension of humankind.  I personally believe that all life, of every species, sprang from God's mind created from the Spiritual realm into a Physical Realm.  Humankind I believe to be a very unique and special creation of God in that we have a soul/spirit that is, or can be, eternal and lives on past physical death of the body which serves as a container of that inner soul/spirit.  Animals, Fish, Insects, Plant life, bacteria etc I do not believe were endowed with an inner spirit/soul which I fully believe God created.  Every physical/fleshly creation is a product of flesh/physical source as in parents.  The soul/spirit however I view as created of and by God and endowed within Human life setting us apart from all other creation making us special.

 

To view otherwise is to reduce man/woman/humankind to the exact same standing as any other life so IF SO why not exact the same laws for killing of animals, fish, plants, insects as they are life also?  NO I don't believe evolution is the vehicle by which all life species became and got where they are today!  I fully believe, with all confidence, that there is and was a Creator way more advanced and intelligent, powerful than we can conceive or understand.  

DA---I'm confused too Semiannualchick. B50m seemed to come on pretty strong with accusations and sarcastic remarks. Now seems to be blaming the atheist for starting the whole thing. Typical. I am not a Christian but I am able to read and understand what the bible tells it followers to do and to abide by. I agree I have never met a true Christian in all my life.

 

I thought you wanted plain and direct talk or did I miss something? So I come on strong and sarcastic?  LOL, that's a good one. Semi said she never asked me for my definition of a Christian, she did. She said I said I was a Christian, I didn't. She also thought I was calling her a combative non-Christian when  I was actually referring to myself. I covered all this in my review of facts, if any one would bother to read what I posted.

 

But, no matter, nobody sees anything other than what they want to.

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

GB,

 

For someone who says they read most of the post on this forum you sure have missed a lot. There have been countless times that evidence and links have been provided showing that Hitler was indeed Roman Catholic. Not that it really matters much. It just always seems to strike a nerve in Christians when that is pointed out. I could care less if he were Muslim, Christian, or Wiccan. He was evil regardless. The fact is he himself claimed to be Catholic. It is well documented and easily found. I will make it easy for you since you seem to be in need of help with this one.

 

Here ya go.

http://www.google.com/search?q...amp;client=firefox-a#q=hitler+catholic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c3v&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=ivns&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=51MGTpWnBYHagQfCtcHSDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=more-results&resnum=16&ved=0CHsQ6AIwDw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=27b93cf21cbb40b9&biw=1345&bih=538

Oh if I said I read most of the post on this forum I was sadly mistaken for I certainly attempt not to read most of the post.  I'll quickly admit I pass over most of the post so if I missed the one about Hitler here's why.  I don't care a bit for Hitler and I'm not Roman Catholic so had a post about either been posted I would not have read it.  Sorry but just not one of the areas of interest.  If though the post was within one of the other topics (and no I trust your link but didn't read it either but only because I believe you are telling me accurately).  As for the significance of Hitler being Catholic or Christian or if he claimed to be Southern Baptist it would not matter a bit for his actions would have discredited whatever he said he was with regard to Christianity but like with everyone else in here that's for God to determine and not man.  We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?

"We can, from his actions and acts, guess that he wasn't a "born again Christian" but are we going to start going down the road where every person's acts are going to be laid at the feet of the people, party, or group they happen to associate with?"

 

Uh, no. I didn't say that at all. Geez...first you say there are many if not most atheist that would like to see Christians killed. You say that you have never seen where a Christian on this forum has made the kind of remarks you deem as hateful. I refer you to your own post for that one sir. You didn't like it one bit when Jennifer turned it around and suggested that you (as a Christian) would like to see all atheist burned. Why was it ok to suggest that kind of unfounded mindset on the behalf of atheist, yet it was completely unjust for her to say the same thing? The reason you feel that atheist attack the Christians on this forum more is because you choose to see it that way. You are also the one that brought up the subject of Hitler. You used him as an example in trying to make a connection to what Jennifer said about understanding how some atheist would like to eliminate Christianity. I understood perfectly what you were insinuating about atheist, she misunderstood.She thought you meant the religion, you mean we would like to see the people eliminated.

 

You can also look to what b50m said about atheist. She said we would be happy to find ourselves in hell with Christians we hate. How are we atheist supposed to take a statement like that? To say we would be happy to see others suffering would make us evil. I am not that evil. I don't personally know an atheist that is that evil.

 

I agree 100% that what Hitler did had nothing to do with his religion. Well I take that back. I think he might have twisted somethings in his religion to justify his hatred towards Jews. If you are raised to believe a race of people are responsible for the murder of your savior I guess you might have some deep ceded resentment towards that race. Of course I am just speculating on that. Otherwise I don't think religion was his driving force or even a thought to what he was doing. He was an evil evil man bent on power and destruction. In his mind I think he believed he was a god.

 

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and have read post after post of you saying that atheist either shouldn't be in this forum (I think you said it was inhumane) or that we have been hateful to Christians. I will not deny that I have anger towards religion. Not for the reasons you probably think. It has nothing to do with unanswered prayers. It has to do with the way that many Christians would like for this country to be a theocracy. The way that religious leaders use the pulpit to influence the political arena. Its because many religious groups want to dictate to others who they love and marry. Its because I have to live in a world where (whether you believe it or not) I have to fear for my well being just because I am an atheist. A society so driven by its religious beliefs that even my livelihood can be threatened by my admittance to atheism. You may say you are not one of these types of Christians. Great! I have no problem with believers who are happy and satisfied to live their lives without forcing their religious beliefs on others. Yet, I find your post to be very passive aggressive.

 

Have you ever stopped to think that some of us are here to give the same support to those looking for others who question belief in a God? Why are only the "new" Christians precious? I think that there are those that feel in their hearts and minds that there is no God and need to know there are others out there just like them They need support. It is hard to be in a minority.  The forum subject is RELIGION it does not specify only believers. It is a topic. Religion is a very valid topic for atheist. What would make us atheist without religion?

 


 

You can also look to what b50m said about atheist. She said we would be happy to find ourselves in hell with Christians we hate. How are we atheist supposed to take a statement like that? To say we would be happy to see others suffering would make us evil. I am not that evil. I don't personally know an atheist that is that evil.

 

 

If you had read all the thread instead of bits and pieces I explained that. I will not re-post again. You don't personally know an evil atheist. How many atheists do you personally know? How many Christians do you personally know? How many are EVIL?


Since you don't believe in the Bible, Heaven or Hell, God or Satan, you can't be offended by something you don't believe. When people make the crude remark of 'Go to Hell', they don't mean literally burn in Hell for all eternity, It's more of the "shut your mouth up and leave me alone", generally.

Do i want any one to burn in Hell? No, believer or non believer. I doubt many will even be in Hell. It would take a person without any conscience, any moral fiber, and wanton slaughter without remorse to earn Hell. Or at least i think that is the way it should be. Since I have yet to meet any one like that in real life or virtual land, i think Hell will be empty. But then I'm just a confrontational pseudo Christian.

 

 

Originally Posted by b50m:

DA---I'm confused too Semiannualchick. B50m seemed to come on pretty strong with accusations and sarcastic remarks. Now seems to be blaming the atheist for starting the whole thing. Typical. I am not a Christian but I am able to read and understand what the bible tells it followers to do and to abide by. I agree I have never met a true Christian in all my life.

 

I thought you wanted plain and direct talk or did I miss something? So I come on strong and sarcastic?  LOL, that's a good one. Semi said she never asked me for my definition of a Christian, she did. She said I said I was a Christian, I didn't. She also thought I was calling her a combative non-Christian when  I was actually referring to myself. I covered all this in my review of facts, if any one would bother to read what I posted.

 

But, no matter, nobody sees anything other than what they want to.

I did go back and read it all. Semi answered you and you kept on poking. She answered you again and you still weren't happy. She finally said she didn't think she could satifiy you with her answers. You didn't like that either. You said you guessed by her post that everyone would go to hell and the atheist would be happy. Then you said SHE was the one that said everyone was going to hell. Later you decided that all the confusion and heated discussion was the fault of the atheist. Oh yeah and in the end you gave the exact same definition of what a Christian was supposed to be that she had stated almost from the beginning. Yet when she said it you needed more of an answer. So yeah, I am confused right along side Semi.

 

As for straight talk. That is just fine. I just don't care much for circle talk. If you are going to take a stand and try and make a point at least get to it and stop turning it around and around. Also could you please stop whining about atheist saying that Christians are unintelligent or weak minded when you do the same thing. In this thread alone you have called some Christians wackjobs and I think idiots (I will have to go back and re-read to make sure that was the term used) also you said Semi had a WARPED understanding of the bible. Nice. Then you proceeded to tell her what she REALLY thought and felt. THEN told her to stop listening to others opinions and figure it out on her own. LOL

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

Moses already had God talking to him when he parted the Red Sea.

 

God may have been talking to Moses beforehand but did Moses believe before or after he stretched his hand out over the sea that it would part?

When Jesus told the paralytic man to walk, did he believe before or after he stood up & walked?

 

When the blind man walked to the pool to wash his eyes, did he believe before or after?

 

When a person asked Jesus to save him/her, do they believe before or after?

 

When Jesus asked the 10 Lepers to go show themselves to the priest, and as they went they were cleansed, did they believe before they went on their way or after? They had to have some amount of belief to even ask Him for mercy.

b, the basic premise of your post is wrong.  There was no Moses, no Exodus, Israeli archeology has proven this.

 

Like almost all of the bible, his story was taken from earlier mythology, particularly the Babylonian mythology from the Jewish captivity therein.  You could look it up.

 

DF

That is incorrect.  Archeology has not done such.  Sodom and Gomorra was dismissed as fable but i a recent History/National Geographic program I saw where archeologist have found what they fully believe, with a high degree of accuracy, is Sodom.  The same for many other cities or locations.  If you don't want to believe it I'm sure you have your reasons however it's not genuine to make such statements that are incorrect in order to justify your disbelief.  Even if Archeology has not found something doesn't mean it didn't or does not exist anyone can realize that.   

The archaeology of the Exodus is complete.  It never happened.  The Jewish captivity in Babylon is archeologically demonstrated.

 

DF

Originally Posted by b50m:

DF,

I move forward every day and I don't have to ask God's permission to do so.

Since you have mapped out all the religious and non-religious places of the world, where should you live?

 

Trying to turn religion into a crutch again doesn't wash with me. You don't want to have faith, that's fine by me.  What I don't get is why you hate that I do.

 

To accuse the Bill Grays of the world of bashing religion on you then to turn around and call all religious people weak minded and in need of a crutch is the same thing.

 

The atheist's tolerance of religion is zero.  Want to work on that?

I should live in America.  Atheism is the fastest growing opinion on religion.

 

DF

Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

A person doesn't DECIDE to believe in God. Your heart is opened by Him to see and feel Him.

 

If it's not my choice, then why do the religious constantly beseech me and demand me to believe?  I'm with you on this one, it's not a choice.

 

Having seen plenty of evidence for both sides, there is only one honest conclusion I can make.

 

DF

Then that honest conclusion is for you to make, not for every one else to accept. As I have said a million times, I believe in God, don't care if you do or not, the Bible is there for you to read or not, and I would prefer not be considered less intelligent because I do.

Would you prefer gullible, or uneducated?  The entire system of Christianity is a pile of lies and frauds.  All of it.

 

DF

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