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Democrat Party National Convention

D DeepFatOld Faithful
2008 Democratic National Convention Schedule of Events

7:00 pm ~ Opening flag burning

7:15 pm ~ Pledge of Allegiance to the U.N.

7:20 pm ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

7:25 pm ~ Nonreligious prayer and worship with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton

7:45 pm ~ Ceremonial tree hugging

7:55 pm ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

8:00 pm ~ How I Invented the Internet - Al Gore

8:15 pm ~ Gay Wedding Planning - Barney Frank presiding

8:35 pm ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

8:40 pm ~ Our Troops are War Criminals - John Kerry

9.00 pm ~ Memorial service for Saddam and his sons - Cindy Sheehan and Susan Sarandon

10:00 pm ~ "Answering Machine Etiquette" - Alec Baldwin

11:00 pm ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

11: 05 pm ~ Collection for the Osama Bin Laden kidney transplant fund -- Barbra Streisand

11:15 pm ~ Free the Freedom Fighters from Guantanamo Bay -­ Sean Penn

11:30 pm ~ Oval Office Affairs - William Jefferson Clinton

11:45 pm ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

11:50 pm ~ How George Bush Brought Down the World Trade Towers - Howard Dean

12:15 am ~ "Truth in Broadcasting Award" - Presented to Dan Rather by Michael Moore

12:25 am ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

12:30 am ~ Satellite address by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

12:45 am ~ Nomination of Hillary Rodham Clinton by Nancy Pelosi

1:05 am ~ Coronation of Hillary Rodham Clinton

1:30 am ~ Ted Kennedy proposes a toast

1:35 am ~ Bill Clinton asks Ted Kennedy to drive Hillary home...
Original Post

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J Jan55Old Faithful
On the otherside called the right wing republican's, The evangelicals carry so much weight that several presidential candidates expressed doubt about evolution -- that's just creepy. It's like they put a plank in the party platform about mandatory ignorance. Meanwhile our infrastructure is what it is because of twenty-eight years of "Government is not the solution.

I'd just read Alexis de Tocqueville's reminiscence of the revolution of 1848, for which he had a ringside seat as a member of the National Assembly. The two parties had narrowed their bases to the same stratum of society, the aspiring middle class. When the constitutional crisis came the government fell because absolutely nobody wanted to defend it. I thought about that during the '88 election, and again and again since.
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
I agree, it's creepy when Tancredo and Huckabee believe in Creationism.

That's so far beyond the Stupid Line I couldn't support either.

DF




How much weight do you feel that The right wing evangelicals will carry in 08 election? Do you feel people have caught on to evangelicals?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
I know that we all have different beliefs here. If someone chooses to be an atheist that's their right and I'm not going to insult someone for those beliefs even though I disagree with them. It would be nice to receive that same courtesy instead of being referred to as a neanderthal and being "beyond the stupid line".
D DeepFatOld Faithful
Sorry, Nash, I certainly don't mean to imply that religious people are necessarily stupid.

But, if one believes that men walked with dinosaurs, and all the species that ever lived on the earth lived at once, then one is stupid. Creationism is the definition of stupid.

As for Neanderthals..... sorry. A bit of political hyperbole there. Politicians are called much worse every day.

DF
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Creationism is the definition of stupid.


It makes more sense to me than a cosmic random accident, but that horse has been beat to death already.

I don't like the mixing of politics and religion either, nothing bothers me more than campaigning from the pulpit. I have no problem supporting a candidate with religious beliefs, but not one that uses those beliefs to gain office.
outspokenjerkoutspokenjerkHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Sorry, Nash, I certainly don't mean to imply that religious people are necessarily stupid.

But, if one believes that men walked with dinosaurs, and all the species that ever lived on the earth lived at once, then one is stupid. Creationism is the definition of stupid.

As for Neanderthals..... sorry. A bit of political hyperbole there. Politicians are called much worse every day.

DF


If I had a dollar for every time you started in on fricking evolution vs. creationism I would be rich. It seems you do your best to take pot shots every opportunity you get. Geez. Are you insecure about it. If not, back off. In my opinion, believing man squirmed into existence from a tadpole is the true definition of stupid but I don't get on here and parade it around to every forum topic. Have a great day, though.
I interventorPost Master
Believing the world is only 6,000 years old, when written records go back 5,400 years (no mention of dinosaurs, etc.) and go against the laws of physics is bewildering to me. Even the intelligent design believers don't go that route.

Assuming God created the universe (I do), why would he create laws that lie to man to bewilder him and deny use of the gift of a reasoning brain and free will (His own image)?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Believing the world is only 6,000 years old, when written records go back 5,400 years (no mention of dinosaurs, etc.) and go against the laws of physics is bewildering to me. Even the intelligent design believers don't go that route.

Assuming God created the universe (I do), why would he create laws that lie to man to bewilder him and deny use of the gift of a reasoning brain and free will (His own image)?


Excellent point. I don't believe that this existence just happened by some random accident, but I don't believe it was created just 6000 years ago either. As for humans living with dinosaurs, I have a hard time with that as well. I don't think humans would have been around for too long if there were carnivorous lizards the size of buildings running around among them. However, the argument that all the intricacies of nature and physics just happened to accidentally create themselves is just a little too weak for me to buy in to.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
quote:
believing man squirmed into existence from a tadpole is the true definition of stupid
And it would be, but who said that?

Sorry if I keep poking you where it hurts, OJ. PBA and I were discussing the relationship between evangelicals, who largely believe in Creationism, and the Republicans.

I wonder how many of the Democrat candidates believe in Creationism?

DF
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
believing man squirmed into existence from a tadpole is the true definition of stupid
And it would be, but who said that?

Sorry if I keep poking you where it hurts, OJ. PBA and I were discussing the relationship between evangelicals, who largely believe in Creationism, and the Republicans.

I wonder how many of the Democrat candidates believe in Creationism?

DF


I wonder how many repukes say they believe in "Creationism" and are lying to make love to the Evangelicals?
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by outspokenjerk:
If I had a dollar for every time you started in on fricking evolution vs. creationism I would be rich. It seems you do your best to take pot shots every opportunity you get. Geez. Are you insecure about it. If not, back off.


For me, it's kinda like constantly running across a post stating that "two plus two equals five." I just can't help myself from calling down someone who is stupid enough to not only believe that but deny the proven answer even after they've been shown otherwise.

It's also a way to vicariously combat the stupidity of the religious fundamentalists nationwide. I don't necessarily have a problem with you believing what you want but there are people who believe as you do that want to teach their religious beliefs in a science classroom. I am quite passionately against that.

So, if you don't like being picked on for believing in ghosts, witchcraft, demons, a literal interpretation of the bible and 2+2=5, then stop bringing the stupid subject up.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
For me, saying life is an accident is the same as 2+2=5. It's an unprovable theory, made up as a way to explain our existence without acknowledging a higher power. Personally, I find it too implausible. I don't have a problem with people who choose to believe this, that's their right. I respect their right to their beliefs and I don't refer to them as stupid simply because I disagree. It takes faith to believe that God does not exist just like it takes faith to believe He does. To say people are stupid for believing in God simply shows a hatred towards religion, not a disagreement with it. As I've said before, I don't insult atheists for their beliefs, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I hope the republicans will allow Mary Cheney and her wife to speak at their convention - while holding their child, of course.

As for Barney Frank - nothing you can do about him. He irritates all the right people - so does Mary Cheney.



How can we tell if Mary is the wife or the husband?


Since there are two women, there is not a husband. I know this is hard to grasp, but there need not be "rolls" of any kind in a relationship. We all know women who totally emasculate the men in their lives. Women who are the master and total last word - the big boss. Does that make her the husband? Nope. It just means she is the dominate figure. Lots of variations in life and relationships. I really dont give much thought to the make-up of relationships I am not involved in - that includes the sex. If I am not having it - its not really of any concern to me.What two conscenting adults do is their business. In other words - its none of my business or anyone elses.
Last edited by meanasasnake
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
For me, saying life is an accident is the same as 2+2=5. It's an unprovable theory,


See? There you go again being stupid.

The entire science of biology (and all other life sciences), paleontology, archeology, astrobiology and lots of other 'ologies have their very foundations rooted evolution (and vice-versa). If you believe evolution is "unprovable" then you must also apply that same wacky rule to every other legitimate science. If you are in fact, "college educated" in the sciences as you claimed (which I seriously doubt) then you KNOW better. By default, that makes you stupid.

Again, I don't have a problem with you believing whatever you want but to claim evolution is it not a valid science is just so incredibly, obtusely, wildly stupid that it borders on absolute lunacy and dark-age-ish.

quote:
To say people are stupid for believing in God simply shows a hatred towards religion, not a disagreement with it. As I've said before, I don't insult atheists for their beliefs, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


I never stated a belief in god was stupid -- It most certainly is not. I said you were stupid for ignoring evidence that slaps you upside the head every waking moment of your life. It is the study of evolution that might save you, your wife, son or daughter from deadly viruses and bacteria that EVOLVE rapidly.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
See? There you go again being stupid.

The entire science of biology (and all other life sciences), paleontology, archeology, astrobiology and lots of other 'ologies have their very foundations rooted evolution (and vice-versa). If you believe evolution is "unprovable" then you must also apply that same wacky rule to every other legitimate science. If you are in fact, "college educated" in the sciences as you claimed (which I seriously doubt) then you KNOW better. By default, that makes you stupid.

Again, I don't have a problem with you believing whatever you want but to claim evolution is it not a valid science is just so incredibly, obtusely, wildly stupid that it borders on absolute lunacy and dark-age-ish.


quote:
To say people are stupid for believing in God simply shows a hatred towards religion, not a disagreement with it. As I've said before, I don't insult atheists for their beliefs, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


I never stated a belief in god was stupid -- It most certainly is not. I said you were stupid for ignoring evidence that slaps you upside the head every waking moment of your life. It is the study of evolution that might save you, your wife, son or daughter from deadly viruses and bacteria that EVOLVE rapidly.


When did I say anything about evolution? I believe this post is the first time I've used the word evolution on this thread.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
When did I say anything about evolution? I believe this post is the first time I've used the word evolution on this thread.


This sub thread began with OutspokenJerk saying,"If I had a dollar for every time you started in on fricking evolution vs. creationism I would be rich."

I responded with a retort and you responded with "For me, saying life is an accident is the same as 2+2=5. It's an unprovable theory, made up as a way to explain our existence without acknowledging a higher power. Personally, I find it too implausible."

What the heck "unprovable theory" are you blabbering about if not evolution?
D DeepFatOld Faithful
quote:
It would be nice to receive that same courtesy instead of being referred to as a neanderthal and being "beyond the stupid line".


The issue in question as being beyond the stupid line is creationism. If my definition of stupid offended you, it's reasonable to conclude you're a creationist, isn't it?

Evolution is a demonstrable fact. Creationism is religious mumbo jumbo.

DF
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
That's your opinion. As for evolution, some of it has been proven. The animals on the galapagos islands are a good example of that. What hasn't been proven is the claim that we evolved from primate. No one has been able to link prehistoric primates with modern day humans. That's why it's called the "missing link". I think it was George Carlin that said "If we came from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?"

My whole point was that if you want to believe we evolved from primates and existence created itself through accidents, that's your right, I respect that and I don't stoop to insults. Why not show the same courtesy to those of us who believe otherwise?
D DeepFatOld Faithful
my dear nash,

Evolution is a fact. that is not my opinion, it's a demonstrable fact.

George Carlin didn't say that. it's a dumb thing to say, and he's not dumb. There is no reason to believe that if humans evolved from other primates, that those other primates could not survive in their ecological place.

Genetically speaking, there are three kinds of chimpanzees... the standard chimp, the bonobo (or pygmy chimp), and us. Our DNA is 98% identical to the other chimps.

I don't mean to call names or insult people promiscuously. However, Creationism is demonstrably false, and has NO credibility among scientists. It is a transparent attempt to inject religious pseudoscience into the public consciousness in order to bolster a primitive and absurd religious belief when reason, observation, experimentation, and a world of evidence tells us otherwise.

DF

DF
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
If evolution was a demonstrable fact, it would be a law. Last time I checked it was still a theory. When has anyone demonstrated that creationism is false? I'm not talking about the whole 6000 year old earth thing, I don't believe in that. There are scientists who believe in a Creator, my biology professor in college for one.

As I said before, to believe that science knows everything and that life is an accident requires too much of a leap of faith for me. If that's what you want to believe, fine. I'm not going to consider you less intelligent the way you consider me.

This has all been said before. It's obvious you have a hatred towards religion and religious people. I'm not trying to change your mind, simply asking to show a little respect for those with differing beliefs.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
Since Evangelicals insist on the total innerancy of the Bible for them and other fundalmentalists evolution is viewed as a threat. Why? Because they are equating the Bible with God himself. Since the Bible evolved over hundreds of years and does not include many other books not deemed "suitable", one must view the Bible with reason. In other words - use your head. God gave it to you and expects you to use it. Does it really matter HOW God created the universe? Not really - his methods need not be understood or proven. I think the bigger interest to God is that you believe in him, not understand the mysteries of the creation. Faith is more than the written word, and it is not dependent on it. When the Bible becomes more important than God you have yourself a case of "bibliolatry" which is the worship of the word instead of God.

http://www.newreformation.org/heresy3.htm

There are more important things than this in our Christian lives.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
If evolution was a demonstrable fact, it would be a law. Last time I checked it was still a theory. When has anyone demonstrated that creationism is false?


Good grief . . .

Evolution is not a "law" for the same reasons "cellular theory," "Atomic Theory" and "Gravitational Theory" is not a "law." Laws are quantifiable natural phenomenon that have been proven to occur invariably whenever certain conditions are met. They invariable and can be proven by mathematical means. Your silly statement is akin to comparing apples to English literature - there's simply no correlation there at all.

Evolution is often said to be "closer" to a law than a hypothesis because the theory is so very overwhelmingly supported by evidence but get this: EVOLUTION WILL NEVER BE "LAW" because it does not meet the aforementioned criteria for a law.

Really, Nash, your ignorance of these simple concepts is quite profound coming from someone who professed to be a college graduate with a degree in science.

2+2=4, dude.
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