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While I in no way condone what Kevin Garner has done, The way a divorce court settles monetary disputes between couples can be too much for one to handle. Link

Ladies please take note if you ever have to go through divorce, please don't let the attorney talk you in to take your man to the cleaners. In this case it calls for him to provide for her to live the same way as when they was married. In order for him to be able to do that, he would have to sacrifice is current level of life. I believe in equal division between the two, but you cannot provide two households for the same as it was when you are together.
I am sure this same kind of thing is what drove Tom McCravy to do what he did a couple of weeks ago.

Please have sympathy for both sides involved.

"some don't like me, but I am one I would be proud to know"

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I read the divorce complaint and there was nothing out of the ordinary listed.

Tammy Garner asked for child support in accordance with the state guidelines, the child's medical bills to be split between the parties, and if the child goes to college, she asks that he contribute to those expenses. Last, she asked for the child's extra-curricular expenses to be split equally. Many judges will not agree to that last part if the other party contests it.

Then she goes on to ask for the retirement accounts to be split equally and for alimony. Since they were married for 22 years and they have a child, that is totally proper and expected. Yes, he went to work and earned that money. And while he was doing that she was raising their child and running their household. Unless he can prove that he had to hire a maid and a nanny, she would have probably gotten that. How much alimony and for how long? That is up to the judge.

Then, lets remember that this was filed in May of 2008 and that it is not a decree nor an order nor a settlement. It is only a complaint (sometimes called a 'petition') for divorce. His attorney could have (and might have) filed a counter-complaint.

They were scheduled to go to court... this was not over and he had not been ordered to do anything. After yesterday's events, I don't think that anyone can doubt Mrs. Garner's claims that her husband was mentally unstable and very violent.
Although this is not the courts decision, and I understand that all Lawyers are going to ask for more than they know they will get, I find it disturbing that they can expect him to provide alimony for her to live at the same level as when they were together. If he were to do that, he could not live at the same level as before the divorce.
I know there probably is no way to fairly decide exactly just what half is, It just seems all divorces wind up with one of the two loosing more than the other?
quote:
Originally posted by unclegus:
Although this is not the courts decision, and I understand that all Lawyers are going to ask for more than they know they will get, I find it disturbing that they can expect him to provide alimony for her to live at the same level as when they were together. If he were to do that, he could not live at the same level as before the divorce.
I know there probably is no way to fairly decide exactly just what half is, It just seems all divorces wind up with one of the two loosing more than the other?


After a divorce, no one is going to have the same standard of living as they did when they were married. That "legalese" language is very standard and it does not mean that she wanted another quarter of a million dollar house and all that. It means that she wanted the courts to see that he made the lion's share of the money and she would be much worse off financially than he would be after the divorce. She was asking the courts to remedy that by ordering him to pay alimony.

And a lot of lawyers take the approach that they will ask for everything and anything and be happy if the judge gives them most of what they want. Maybe that was what her attorney was doing. Maybe he said "we'll ask for half the house + half the retirement + alimony and then if we just get half the house or half the retirement + alimony we'll say OK".

And yes, divorces are hardly ever equal. It just isn't possible to assign an actual value to everything. Frowner

Ron, I ordered you one of those robot women. Watch for her to be arriving in the mail any day now. Wink I think her name is Rosie.
I have created a Domestic Agreement that has an expiration date.
The first section is for 6 months which automatically renews for another 6 months.
Then an addendum has to be added for the term the parties wish to enter into with a renewal clause for the same period...plus if you split everything is split 50/50 no fault clause...

Beats the crap the "BIG D" Courts put you through...
I had a friend who divorced and they basically said, "When your done, your done! You don't care about the materialistic stuff, you just want to be happy!" I haven't divorced my husband but I almost several months ago and at that time he could have had everything and I would not have cared as long as I was out and happier! I know eventually I would have been under stress from trying to get furniture, etc. but I honestly did not care at that time! I just feel so sorry for this tragedy that this family is facing.
quote:
Originally posted by ILuvSchnauzers:
I had a friend who divorced and they basically said, "When your done, your done! You don't care about the materialistic stuff, you just want to be happy!" I haven't divorced my husband but I almost several months ago and at that time he could have had everything and I would not have cared as long as I was out and happier! I know eventually I would have been under stress from trying to get furniture, etc. but I honestly did not care at that time! I just feel so sorry for this tragedy that this family is facing.


Are you and your husband OK now? If so, I'm glad to hear that you worked it out. Marriage is a beautiful and wonderful thing, BUT it takes TWO to make it that way!!!
quote:
Originally posted by ILuvSchnauzers:
I had a friend who divorced and they basically said, "When your done, your done! You don't care about the materialistic stuff, you just want to be happy!" I haven't divorced my husband but I almost several months ago and at that time he could have had everything and I would not have cared as long as I was out and happier! I know eventually I would have been under stress from trying to get furniture, etc. but I honestly did not care at that time! I just feel so sorry for this tragedy that this family is facing.


I hear you , Im am fixing to leave half of my stuff behind just to be happy and have peace of mind again . Wink
They were married for 22 years -- not 4 or 5 or 8 or 9 -- 22 years ... she stated in the divorce that he was controlling and abusive and she basically put up with that for 22 years...This was not a fly by night marriage -- this was a high school sweetheart marriage that lasted longer than most marriages...and I'm sorry, if I spent 22 years with someone and they expected me to not work and raise our kids -- then if it were to end I would expect to be taken care of to some degree of what I had before...not more but some...while I do understand happiness is why you get out...and at that point you don't really care...

I agree with TSC -- she didn't ask for anything more than she deserved...there was nothing out of the ordinary in what was requested and even with what was requested that was not a guarantee of what she would or would not get...if "taking him to the cleaners" is what drove him to do this (which I doubt) then he definitely jumped the gun and didn't give the court a chance to work in his favor.

I honestly think though that he was probably still in "control" mode -- if I can't have her and I can't have my family then no one else will either...
I saw on tv 19 last night where she was accused of numerous adulterous affairs. I wonder if that has something to do with his control problem?

Two wrongs can never make one right. I am sure that at one point someone will come forward and shed light on the truth. Nonetheless it is a very sad situation all the way around.
I agree with Dixie that this probably had little to do with money and everything to do with this guy not being able to stand the fact that he wasn't going to be able to control this family any longer. Co-dependence to the extreme. Knowing absolutely nothing about the case but a lot about how controlling people act, I would give no credence to the insinuations of infidelity on her part.
Spellbound -- I don't think anyone is trying to "justify" this man's actions, I think we are just trying to find some "understanding" to this madness...I think we agree that this guy was a coward and that nothing could ever truly justify what he did...

I actually appreciate WHNT though -- they are at least trying to tell the story...WAFF is barely giving it air time...now if this had happened in Madison or Huntsville they would be all over it, but it's the Shoals so it's less traumatic for them to cover...
As hard as we look and as desperate as we are to find some kind of rationale for what may have "set him off", we will probably never know. There is probably no way for us to understand the thought process behind something like this - it is just way to unstable - for lack of a better way to say it.

The only thing I can truly grasp is that it is one of, if not the very most horrible thing I have ever heard of. I just feel so terrible for this family and wish there was something I could do for them. I know that nothing I could possibly do would make it even a little better. All we can do is pray for them - but it is so very heartbreaking.
Two words: prenuptial agreement.

People think prenuptial agreements are just horrible until they find themselves going through a divorce. I would much rather represent a happy couple and prepare them a prenuptial agreement than to represent that same couple years down the road in a bitter divorce.

ETA: They are also a heck of a lot cheaper than a divorce.
Good for Waff. The ins and outs of their divorce proceedings are not anyone's business!!!
We don't need to know that he accused her of adultry or what she said about him. Bottom line he premeditated and shot them both and there is no "justification" for that. These news channels that report the "gossip" are out of line as far as I'm concerned.
quote:
Originally posted by George Sand:
quote:
Tammy Morgan might have done.


Allegations fly in all divorce cases and when the dust settles, most of the allegations are proven false.

News channels and anyone in the media should be ashamed to capitalize on any of it, especially when innocent children were hurt.


I agree.

There is no justification for what happened and the only person responsible for these murders is the man who pulled the trigger.
NO! TPLAW...

Not prenup!!! DOMESTIC AGREEMENT which contains expiration dates, and preset terms just like a prenup with more options and a expiration date to the domestic agreement. At the endo of the domestic term each can walk away without having to go to court and everything that is obtained during the period of living together divided equally period no ifs or buts...
If Children become involved then the agreement automatically turns into a Marriage Certificate with all of the legal rights of such...
quote:
Originally posted by SPELLBOUND:
Are you kidding me. WHNT 19 needs to be boycotted. I don't care what she did.... this deranged coward shot her and HIS CHILD while they were asleep. And his sister and another innocent child!!!! How dare anyone try to justify the actions of this mad man!!! I for one will never watch that channel again!!


Under no circumstance am I trying to justify what this man has done- it is a disgrace to the area and humankind in general.
We all are having trouble trying to understand just why he did that and wishing we can find a solution to end this kind of thing. In order to do that we need to understand as much about it as possible, I am only trying to have an open dialog so we can understand better. I don't wish to put the blame on anyone other than the person who committed the autratius crime. In order to have a solution to the problem we must try to understand as much as we can, and in order to do that we must know as much facts as possible.
If in any way we can prevent this from ever happening again, it just may be worth knowing what all the facts are. I certainly am not interested in spewing garbage out on someone who cannot defend themselves.
true, there is no justification for this mess but to really understand what makes a man snap and do these kinds of things we will never know. one thing i can say is this....if you have ever been on the husbands side of a cheating wife you may get an idea. then you add the fact that his own sister was on her side.....just compounds it further in his mind. some people just arent strong enough to simply walk away with the hopes that in a year or two it will be better, instead they snap..... and this is the result.
if anyone reading this is going through the same thing......please just let the other party do what ever they want to do, its not about winning or losing.......its about keeping yourself sane! once time goes by it will all settle down and you will be OK, i promise.
whitetail, none of that connects the dots between supposed betrayal and shooting an 11 year old who was in no way involved. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Although I appreciate those of you who have experienced betrayal feeling sympathy for those who are experiencing it, I'm not sure it applies in this situation. There is a serious flaw or disconnect in that reasoning. Even if he felt betrayed by his wife, his daughter and his sister, that does not explain murdering his nephew. See what I mean?

Not directing this toward anyone in particular...How anyone can argue that this was not a violent man after he's shot and killed 4 people is beyond me. This very action suggests that the mom's and daughter's claims of abuse are true. And to be quite blunt, having had several abusive people in my life when I was growing up, I'd trust nothing that person had to say about his wife. They have a way of twisting the truth or just making it up as they go to justify their actions. JMHO
please dont misunderstand, in my first line i said that there is no way to justify his terrible actions, i am simply saying that there were several steps taken to arrive at a place where he did what he did! IF.....there was an affair.....that could go a long way to explain it. now, before im accused of taking sides, let me tell you its a long way from affair to murder!
the whole point of my post was to say that to some people there are times in their lives when they think there is only one answer, if they would just wait for the storm to be over they will see things more clearly.
Whitetail -- I posted on another thread on the subject about how horrific the scene was for even the officers. While I can agree (if you find that post you will see) that I can understand why he shot his wife (given the divorce situation) and I can even get why he killed himself, but there is no justification for killing 2 innocent children. Even if you are just getting rid of witnesses -- there is no justification -- nothing that would make it understandable for you to shoot your own child -- your own flesh and blood and your nephew -- 2 children that did absolutely nothing wrong in this horrible situation.

I know you aren't justifying anything but I just had to point that out...I can see your point, but only to a certain degree --
DC, i think (?) we are trying to say the same thing.
There are millions of people going through bad times today, thousands are on the verge of snapping (possibly in our area?)and committing horrific deeds. I just hope at least one of them reads these threads and understands the impact it would cause on the ones left behind. there is always another choice!
Murdering any person should never be an option. I am sure everyone can think of a horrible period in their life that they worked through before sinking so deep that they did something that they would regret. It is so horrible to think that this man got so lost that he allowed himself to kill his own child and others that he has loved for so long.

I only wish that someone could have stopped him before this got out of hand. And how can his idiot attorney get in the paper and say he was a good man and that he did not believe the allegations of abuse? Ugh! It is time these attorney's stop trying to bury the truth when allegations are made in a divorce and allow them to be properly assessed.
quote:
Originally posted by worktoohard:
Murdering any person should never be an option. I am sure everyone can think of a horrible period in their life that they worked through before sinking so deep that they did something that they would regret. It is so horrible to think that this man got so lost that he allowed himself to kill his own child and others that he has loved for so long.

I only wish that someone could have stopped him before this got out of hand. And how can his idiot attorney get in the paper and say he was a good man and that he did not believe the allegations of abuse? Ugh! It is time these attorney's stop trying to bury the truth when allegations are made in a divorce and allow them to be properly assessed.


The attorney did not believe the allegations before the murders. After reading the account by the wife's best friend, it does seem the wife had a social life away from her husband. The attorney in all probability assumed she was alleging abuse in order to get a better divorce settlement.
I've read in many of these discussions why this man could have done what he did. He did it because he didn't have control over his wife anymore. It was probably eating at him day by day that she was on her own & living a life without him in it. Men like him want to control every situation within the life of their wife. I've seen some of you say that friends or family should have done something. My question is what could they have done? This man would not have listened to anyone. He had lost control & his means to regain control led him to murder. He did not love his wife, daughter, sister & nephew. It was all about control. He didn't care about anyone but himself. He didn't care what this would do to his parents or the rage & hurt he would leave behind. There are many men that is in the same frame of mind as he was, & sadly, it will probably happen again. They don't want help, they want control.
Quote:
___________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas
The attorney in all probability assumed she was alleging abuse in order to get a better divorce settlement.
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Just to clarify I understand that a lot of things are alleged in divorce but that is why I say that all allegations should be taken seriously until they can either be confirmed or disproved. To say that he had no knowledge of these allegations being true is like saying he was ignoring what could have happened because he thought she just wanted more out of the divorce. There are women and men that use the court system and fabricate stories to get better settlements but that does not seem to be the case here. I have known many attorney's that do not simply believe everything their client says and allow the situation to be addressed through proper channels. I have also known attorney's that will go the extra mile to make sure that allegations can't be explored for one reason or another. Not all attorney's turn a blind eye but some do.

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