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After watching our "resident" fundie spin, twist, and lie outright I decided to do a bit of "research" so to speak, to see if this was an isolated case. After reading people's accounts of what they were "taught" by fundies it seems it isn't out of character at all for most of them to lie about the lifestyles of atheists and people of other religions. When you try to pin them down they do just what they accuse the Mormons and other religions of doing, such as dodging questions, answering questions with other  questions, and belittling anyone that asks the "tough" questions. Those questions being the ones they either have no answer to, or by answering they would show themselves for what they are, a cult.  Does "it depends on what is is" ring a bell? Or how about "it's ok to lie to infidels"?

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Originally Posted by Jennifer:

After watching our "resident" fundie spin, twist, and lie outright I decided to do a bit of "research" so to speak, to see if this was an isolated case. After reading people's accounts of what they were "taught" by fundies it seems it isn't out of character at all for most of them to lie about the lifestyles of atheists and people of other religions. When you try to pin them down they do just what they accuse the Mormons and other religions of doing, such as dodging questions, answering questions with other  questions, and belittling anyone that asks the "tough" questions. Those questions being the ones they either have no answer to, or by answering they would show themselves for what they are, a cult.  Does "it depends on what is is" ring a bell? Or how about "it's ok to lie to infidels"?

The answer is yes. When you don't have truth on you side, that is about all that you can do.

quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

Is it really a lie if you really really really want it to be true?


Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

When we can base our faith upon that -- what else do we need?  Life is wonderful when the Son is your Best Friend!!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

I'm not talking about people who truly believe. One way I can spot a "true christian"  is by the way they DON'T put others down. I'm talking about people (like our resident fundies) that know they're lying but feel it's OK because they don't have any respect for others religions or lack of religion. They think because a person believes differently they aren't due respect but they sure demand it for themselves.. Those are the ones that make me laugh. Like any normal person would "get religion" from them. Oh sure, everyone wants to be a member of your hateful group. Can you imagine being around someone that has treated you that way, and suddenly they want to be your friend "if you accept" their god? These same people will go into prisons and suck the ***** of murderers, spend money to get them out of jail, even marry them etc, just because they claim to have "found god". I should say found "their god" because if that person decides to find another god then of course they're still shyt to the fundies. This past couple of weeks I have seen the "christians" in action around here, the real ones and the fake ones. I am an atheist still, never wavered, and that won't change, but sometimes I think that it is a shame that there isn't really a god. Not because I long for or want one, not because I think it would be wonderful and all that, but because if there really was a god some of these fake christians just might get a lightening bolt shot up their butts. Now that would be nice to see.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

Is it really a lie if you really really really want it to be true?


Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

When we can base our faith upon that -- what else do we need?  Life is wonderful when the Son is your Best Friend!!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

So, then...The bible tells you to lie about the lifestyles of atheists and people of other religions?
 Really.....?

 

I have read statements on this forum from religious (or obviously religious) people who sound absolutely certain that atheists are immoral, decadent, or just plain evil agents of satan simply because they do not believe in your god.

 

I myself have gotten the 'evil eye' from people when I tell them I'm an atheist in response to their question of 'what church do I attend?'

 

In one instance, by the way-I have seen that very same question on a JOB application.

I always thought that was illegal to base consideration for employment on religious affiliation (or lack thereof.).

 

Even though I can be just as polite and cultured as any other educated goober-I'm already at a loss because I'm not a believer. Am I supposed to lie, too and make up some church affiliation to placate some superstitious fool who has trouble counting to twenty if his shoes are still on?

 

That would make me just as bad as any fundy.

 

But I have to live with myself.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

Is it really a lie if you really really really want it to be true?


Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

When we can base our faith upon that -- what else do we need?  Life is wonderful when the Son is your Best Friend!!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

So, on the one hand, God tells us and eye for an eye, and on the other hand, turn the other cheek.   For a God that means what He says, he has trouble communicating it. 



Do fundamentalists spread lies and practice deceit?



Of course they do.  It's all they do.

Six day creation, 6000 years ago.  Lie.
Noah's Flood.  Lie.
Original Sin.  Lie.
Redemption from Hell.  Lie.
Hell, Hell.  Lie.
Evolution is false.  Lie.
Son of god/god/invisible friend.  Lie.

The galling part about it is that they know so much of what they must profess really is untrue.

No thinking person capable of operating a computer on the internet can seriously suggest that dinosaurs walked with mankind, or that death was not present before people.  Yet, several fundies are willing to swear to their lies.  This insults both our intelligence and their religion.

Have you ever known a child who could not tell the truth?  It gets to be amusing.  The whoppers they tell are just so much more fun than reality.

Fundies will tell you that there was no rain before The Fall.  Now,that's funny.  But they aren't smiling.

The dishonesty and feigned ignorance of fundamentalists becomes no laughing matter when they foist such foolishness onto innocent children.  I'm always happy to help such a child by cracking the wall that separates his mind from science and reason.

Y'all know I'm right about this.  Who, but a professional, fundy tent preacher would perpetuate such twaddle?  What kind of person relishes the thought of being ignorant enough to swallow this nonsense?

I don't direct this at honest seekers.  Fundamentalists are not seekers.  They have arrived at the very zenith of stupidity from where no further adventures in idiocy await.

It is the very profound and, I think, affected, ignorance of fundamentalism that makes me consider that it's all for show.  If one truly and genuinely believed this rubbish, one would wear a hockey helmet all the time and ride the short bus everywhere.  You must admit it's difficult to imagine an American in 2011 can actually believe that Noah's Flood carved the Grand Canyon in a matter of hours or days.

DF

Last edited by Not Shallow Not Slim
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

 

out of curiosity...

if the bible is inerrent and " literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says)"

 

if he says what he means, why do YOU think it's necessary for YOU to continually tell us what the verses really means?

 

if he means what he says and says what he means, there would never be any need for evangalists anf preachers and missionaries. we could just mail a free bible to every one on the planet, and our work would be done, right?

because if god really put pen in hand and wrote those words and they are exactly the way he meant them, no one would ever have any doubt about what the verse means, huh?

 

if he means what he says, and says what he means, why is there constant bickering about whether or not alcohol is a sin?

if the bible says the water was turned to wine, then that's exactly what he meant.

 

you tell us the bible is literal and exact... so why the controversy? either it means exactly what it says

"Jesus turned the water to wine" or it's not at all what it says and it requires translation and explanation and interpretation.

 

if God really wrote the bible, he would never allow some human to mistranslate a word when copying it form greek and hebrew into english, a little tiny mistranslation that has the power to devide families and start fights even hundreds of years later.

 

if god wrote the bible and meant " a type of fermented grape juice, containing little or no alcohol' that's what he would have written. if god wrote the bible i wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this arguement, but since the bible uses the word Wine then either you are wrong to think the bible is inerrent, wrong to think that it means what it says and says what it means, or you are wrong to think it's the word of god.

 

if god wrote it, it would not contain conflicts, contradictions, or errors, and it would leave no possible way to misunderstand exactly what god meant.

 

the fact that anyone thinks there is even one error, or one conflict, or that there is even one misunderstanding is proof enough to me that god did not write the book, because God wouldn't allow the misunderstand to happen.

 

while we are at it, i suggest you look up the word ' inspired'.

 

1.

aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
 
as you see, that word can also be defined as #2 above.
the beautiful sight inspired me to write a poem.
the sunrise made me feel so strongly connected to God that i wrote a song about it.
both of the above sentances are useing the word ' inspired' correctly, but neither one means that god influenced me to write any of it.
 
yes, the bible used the phrase ' inspired by the lord' but there is more than one defeinition for the word 'inspired'. and since i think it means one thing, and you think it means another tells me that the bible is NOT the work of God, or i wouldn't be able to misunderstand his intent. He would see to that.
Last edited by The Nagel
Originally Posted by The Nagel:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

 

out of curiosity...

if the bible is inerrent and " literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says)"

 

if he says what he means, why do YOU think it's necessary for YOU to continually tell us what the verses really means?

 

if he means what he says and says what he means, there would never be any need for evangalists anf preachers and missionaries. we could just mail a free bible to every one on the planet, and our work would be done, right?

because if god really put pen in hand and wrote those words and they are exactly the way he meant them, no one would ever have any doubt about what the verse means, huh?

 

if he means what he says, and says what he means, why is there constant bickering about whether or not alcohol is a sin?

if the bible says the water was turned to wine, then that's exactly what he meant.

 

you tell us the bible is literal and exact... so why the controversy? either it means exactly what it says

"Jesus turned the water to wine" or it's not at all what it says and it requires translation and explanation and interpretation.

 

if God really wrote the bible, he would never allow some human to mistranslate a word when copying it form greek and hebrew into english, a little tiny mistranslation that has the power to devide families and start fights even hundreds of years later.

 

if god wrote the bible and meant " a type of fermented grape juice, containing little or no alcohol' that's what he would have written. if god wrote the bible i wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this arguement, but since the bible uses the word Wine then either you are wrong to think the bible is inerrent, wrong to think that it means what it says and says what it means, or you are wrong to think it's the word of god.

 

if god wrote it, it would not contain conflicts, contradictions, or errors, and it would leave no possible way to misunderstand exactly what god meant.

 

the fact that anyone thinks there is even one error, or one conflict, or that there is even one misunderstanding is proof enough to me that god did not write the book, because God wouldn't allow the misunderstand to happen.

 

while we are at it, i suggest you look up the word ' inspired'.

 

1.

aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
 
as you see, that word can also be defined as #2 above.
the beautiful sight inspired me to write a poem.
the sunrise made me feel so strongly connected to God that i wrote a song about it.
both of the above sentances are useing the word ' inspired' correctly, but neither one means that god influenced me to write any of it.
 
yes, the bible used the phrase ' inspired by the lord' but there is more than one defeinition for the word 'inspired'. and since i think it means one thing, and you think it means another tells me that the bible is NOT the work of God, or i wouldn't be able to misunderstand his intent. He would see to that.

 Good point, Nagel, but aren't you confusing 'inspired' with 'aspirated' in regard to the intake of air?

 

 

Bill Gray, you keep saying the bible is the LITERAL word of God-

I wish you'd find another word, because you have demonstrated over and over that you don't believe that.

If you did, you would believe in the Summit of the Gospel- THE most Holy and Blessed Eucharist

But you don't

So please, at least be consistent, and change your line to "literal....sometimes", as that more accurately reflects your beliefs

 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by The Nagel:

while we are at it, i suggest you look up the word ' inspired'.

 

1.

aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
 

 Good point, Nagel, but aren't you confusing 'inspired' with 'aspirated' in regard to the intake of air?

 

 

i'm assuming not, that was taken straight from a dictionary website. see below:

as·pi·rate

1
: an independent sound \h\ or a character (as the letter h) representing it
2
: a consonant having aspiration as its final component <in English the \p\ of pit is an aspirate>
3
: material removed by aspiration
 
and in medical terms to aspirate means to suck something into your lungs that isn't air... as in
" the paitient went into pulmonary arrest because he aspirated some of the pudding."

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

Is it really a lie if you really really really want it to be true?


Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

When we can base our faith upon that -- what else do we need?  Life is wonderful when the Son is your Best Friend!!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

So, on the one hand, God tells us and eye for an eye, and on the other hand, turn the other cheek.   For a God that means what He says, he has trouble communicating it. 

Now, Crusty. You do realize there is a an Old Testament and a New Testament. OT law was written for those who were nomadic and had no prisons. Don't you think an eye for an eye would seriously cut down on crime in the desert? Christians do not live under the old law. Thank goodness!

Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Now, Crusty. You do realize there is a an Old Testament and a New Testament. OT law was written for those who were nomadic and had no prisons. Don't you think an eye for an eye would seriously cut down on crime in the desert? Christians do not live under the old law. Thank goodness!

That has nothing to do with my point, but it is good to know that I can scrap the 10 commandments.

Originally Posted by The Nagel:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by The Nagel:

while we are at it, i suggest you look up the word ' inspired'.

 

1.

aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
 

 Good point, Nagel, but aren't you confusing 'inspired' with 'aspirated' in regard to the intake of air?

 

 

i'm assuming not, that was taken straight from a dictionary website. see below:

as·pi·rate

1
: an independent sound \h\ or a character (as the letter h) representing it
2
: a consonant having aspiration as its final component <in English the \p\ of pit is an aspirate>
3
: material removed by aspiration
 
and in medical terms to aspirate means to suck something into your lungs that isn't air... as in
" the paitient went into pulmonary arrest because he aspirated some of the pudding."


OK, Like I said: (From an online medical dictionary)

aspiration (as´pirā´shn),

n 1. the act of breathing or drawin in.
n 2. the removal of fluids, gases, or solids from a cavity by means of a vacuum pump.
 
Anyways-Thanks FV for clearing that up.
 
 
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by The Nagel:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Blue,

 

How about when you KNOW it is true?   You see, that is the advantage we have in living by the Bible -- we KNOW it is the inspired (by God), inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

 

 

out of curiosity...

if the bible is inerrent and " literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says)"

 

if he says what he means, why do YOU think it's necessary for YOU to continually tell us what the verses really means?

 

if he means what he says and says what he means, there would never be any need for evangalists anf preachers and missionaries. we could just mail a free bible to every one on the planet, and our work would be done, right?

because if god really put pen in hand and wrote those words and they are exactly the way he meant them, no one would ever have any doubt about what the verse means, huh?

 

if he means what he says, and says what he means, why is there constant bickering about whether or not alcohol is a sin?

if the bible says the water was turned to wine, then that's exactly what he meant.

 

you tell us the bible is literal and exact... so why the controversy? either it means exactly what it says

"Jesus turned the water to wine" or it's not at all what it says and it requires translation and explanation and interpretation.

 

if God really wrote the bible, he would never allow some human to mistranslate a word when copying it form greek and hebrew into english, a little tiny mistranslation that has the power to devide families and start fights even hundreds of years later.

 

if god wrote the bible and meant " a type of fermented grape juice, containing little or no alcohol' that's what he would have written. if god wrote the bible i wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this arguement, but since the bible uses the word Wine then either you are wrong to think the bible is inerrent, wrong to think that it means what it says and says what it means, or you are wrong to think it's the word of god.

 

if god wrote it, it would not contain conflicts, contradictions, or errors, and it would leave no possible way to misunderstand exactly what god meant.

 

the fact that anyone thinks there is even one error, or one conflict, or that there is even one misunderstanding is proof enough to me that god did not write the book, because God wouldn't allow the misunderstand to happen.

 

while we are at it, i suggest you look up the word ' inspired'.

 

1.

aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2.
resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3.
inhaled: inspired air.
 
as you see, that word can also be defined as #2 above.
the beautiful sight inspired me to write a poem.
the sunrise made me feel so strongly connected to God that i wrote a song about it.
both of the above sentances are useing the word ' inspired' correctly, but neither one means that god influenced me to write any of it.
 
yes, the bible used the phrase ' inspired by the lord' but there is more than one defeinition for the word 'inspired'. and since i think it means one thing, and you think it means another tells me that the bible is NOT the work of God, or i wouldn't be able to misunderstand his intent. He would see to that.

 Good point, Nagel, but aren't you confusing 'inspired' with 'aspirated' in regard to the intake of air?

 

 

If you were God, and you wanted to write a clear, explicit guidebook for men to live by, you would surely be able to produce something better than the mess that is the Christian Bible. If God inspired this book, he is not very good at inspiring. The Bible has created more atheists than any other cause. If you read it, you cannot be a believer, unless you are brain damaged. It is poorly written, contradictory, terrible history, and an extremely poor guidebook. If you really try to follow its teachings, you will probably go insane. It is quite possible that this has already happened to some who post here.

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