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As for personal beliefs, I definitely believe in demons just as I believe in Angels just like I believe in God and Satan. I do believe that there is a vast Spiritual realm around us and apart from the physical realm that we all live, breath, and occupy. I also believe that there is, depending on place, time, etc, a spiritual war/battle going on.

I believe that demons are agents of Satan and that Satan is among one of the most powerful of God's created beings with capabilities that are beyond that which the human creation has.

What I do not feel comfortable in trying to define or comprehend is just what interaction exist between the physical and physical realms. I do believe that demons can possess the body of a person, thing or animal but that's just my personal opinion and beliefs.

As for Harry Potter and that series. I am not one that feels it's dangerous and satanic and I am not for banning books and prohibiting it from the kids. I wish I had been talented enough to construct such material and share in the kind of money that the author has. The danger of Harry Potter and the like is not in what material it possesses but that it could cause some disenchantment with the issue of angels and demons and

Just figured I'd answer your question NSNS, hope you're having a good day.

BTW, out in your area .... I guess LIndsey Lohan and Brittney are happy to have Charlie Sheen step up and take some of the heat off them for a change.
I'm guessing if my kids were anything like me, they would not desire to read Harry Potter, or any other book series. They would be too busy being KIDS and running around creating their own fantasy world. One much more fulfilling to them than reading about someone elses. Is it harmful to kids? That's sensationalizing it. Parents have to choose what to allow their kids to watch, and if they know their child wouldn't be negatively impacted by watching it(or anything else), then who cares.

As for demons... yes, they exist. Do they walk amongst us forcing us to do bad things? No.
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
As for demons... yes, they exist. Do they walk amongst us forcing us to do bad things? No.

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What are demons and why are they there?
.


Demons are chategorized as many things. Fallen angels who left Heaven with Satan is one thought. "Unclean spirits" is another tag they had from the Bible. One thing that seems clear from the Bible is they are of like mind of Satan.
And why are they WHERE?
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
As for demons... yes, they exist. Do they walk amongst us forcing us to do bad things? No.

---------------------------------

What are demons and why are they there?
.


Demons are chategorized as many things. Fallen angels who left Heaven with Satan is one thought. "Unclean spirits" is another tag they had from the Bible. One thing that seems clear from the Bible is they are of like mind of Satan.
And why are they WHERE?

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Let me say it like this, are they here on earth with us
or they all in hell?


.
They are spiritual beings which do not reside here on earth with us any longer. As for where there are now...who knows? Well... I guess God does so that's a trick question. lol

I've mentioned this to you before... Post Jesus' ascension, the Bible is very quiet on the subject of spiritual beings having any direct contact with the physical relm. I do not think that is a coincidence. Once faith in Christ became our one and only vehicle to God, the spiritual relm has been blocked from the physical relm.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
They are spiritual beings which do not reside here on earth with us any longer. As for where there are now...who knows? Well... I guess God does so that's a trick question. lol

I've mentioned this to you before... Post Jesus' ascension, the Bible is very quiet on the subject of spiritual beings having any direct contact with the physical relm. I do not think that is a coincidence. Once faith in Christ became our one and only vehicle to God, the spiritual relm has been blocked from the physical relm.

------------------------------

I know what your saying, but its something I was thinking
and I'll need to check it out first. thanks


.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
They are spiritual beings which do not reside here on earth with us any longer. As for where there are now...who knows? Well... I guess God does so that's a trick question. lol

I've mentioned this to you before... Post Jesus' ascension, the Bible is very quiet on the subject of spiritual beings having any direct contact with the physical realm. I do not think that is a coincidence. Once faith in Christ became our one and only vehicle to God, the spiritual realm has been blocked from the physical realm.

Hi Peter,

Jude 1:6 tells us of those angels, "And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day."

The footnote in my NASB Study Bible tells us: The fact that those angels are spoken of as fallen obviously implies that at one time they were not fallen but enjoyed a heavenly status before God. They departed from righteousness, were expelled from heaven, and consigned to the lower regions, or Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4) to await their final punishment at the last judgment. At that time these angels will be cast with Satan into the lake of fire (Matthew 25:4, Revelation 20:7-15).

Are there demonic spirits, i.e., fallen angels, active today in the world? Absolutely. However, demonic spirits cannot possess the body and soul of a Christian believer as they can with a non-believer. Demonic spirits can harass Christians -- but, they cannot indwell or possess us.

I have shared with our Forum Friends before about how the mother-in-law of a friend called my home. The mother-in-law was very much into psychics and the paranormal realm. We talked for about half an hour and, just talking with this woman over the telephone -- I could feel that my home office was filled with many demonic spirits, her demonic spirits. Yet, even though I could sense them -- I was not afraid because I know from 1 John 4:4, "You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." Yes, the Holy Spirit protects believers from these demonic spirits.

Peter, the world is full of demonic spirits. This is why we are told in Ephesians 6:10-20 to, daily, put on the Full Armor of God.

Another thing to think about. Satan is not omnipresent as is God. So, Satan can be in only one place at a time. Therefore, he needs many associates, i.e., fallen angels, demonic spirits, to help him harass and tempt humans. I truly believe I have never been tempted by Satan -- but, by his workers. Since Satan can only be in one place at a time -- he will spend his time on more important people than Bill Gray and in more important places, such as the Oval Office.

And, we are told that, when he fell, Satan took one third of all the angels in heaven with him. That is billions and billions of angels who were led astray by Satan and who do his work on earth today.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Hey Bill...

One of the reasons I believe what I do actually resides in that very passage. In verse 12 it states...

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

High places there is also translated "the heavenly relm". I do believe that one day we will come face to face with demons and preparation begins during our time here on earth.

The evil of this world is simply the wickedness of man. When humans chose the wrong path, evil gets a tighter hold on society...whether that is this state, this country, or the entire world. The evil is of Satan, but I don't believe he or any of his crew resides here on earth causing any of the havoc. Unfortunately, we humans don't really need that assistance.

Also, I don't think that anyone can be possessed now. That goes back to my problem with scapegoating. We either choose to accept Christ or reject Christ...Demons don't whisper in our ear and get us to do bad things, nor do they take over the bodies of anyone and make them do anything. We choose our own paths, and to say that a demon can come in and choose the path for a human goes against that thinking. Faith in Christ is key. If someone chooses not to put their faith in Him, they'll be kickin it with the demons soon enough. To give anyone the scapegoat of "the devil made me do it" by way of demon possession takes away free will to make that choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
We either choose to accept Christ or reject Christ

I've ask this question a hundred times and never gotten an answer. How does a person "choose" to accept a god when they just flat out DO NOT believe in a god???? Explain that please.

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Jinn,,,You can't accept anything you can't believe in, why is this even a
question? You choose no go, so there you go, forget it.


.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
We either choose to accept Christ or reject Christ

I've ask this question a hundred times and never gotten an answer. How does a person "choose" to accept a god when they just flat out DO NOT believe in a god???? Explain that please.


That is rejection Jenn. You reject the belief in, the thought of, the story of God and Jesus Christ as truth. The fact that you actively ridicule the belief as that of a fairy tale tells me you make plenty of choices on this topic. I'd be more inclined to buy the whole.. "it was just a revelation one day... God doesn't exist".. if not for the fact that you are one of the top posters per day on the religion forum.
That won't work peter. It wasn't a one day thing. If you bothered to read and understand what I posted about it you'd know I said it was a gradual thing. I post here because most of the other forums are uninteresting, and I'm the very one most surprised that I even give it this much time. But I had no idea christians like some I've seen on here even exist. It's mind boggling! The urban legends they post as truth and the out an out lies too. The way they "talk to " people that don't believe, like somehow they have a right to talk "smack" to an atheist. And these are supposed to be christians??? Wow. Real christians would be sick to their stomach reading some of this stuff.
There goes "Jennifer", calling people liars again. And isn't ist funny that the queen of "talking smack" is accusing others of doing so? If "Jennifer" is such an atheist, why is she constantly judging Christians and saying that their behavior is not up to Christian standards?

I think the reason she posts over here so much is simple. She enjoys being nasty toward others. Either that or she really IS searching for meaning. I'd like to think it's the latter, and that someday she'll find it.
Jennifer;
You ask how we "CHOOSE" to accept God, when we don't believe in Him.
Let me take a stab.
We are shown lots of documentation of Jesus' life. Christ's life on earth- God among us. I began to study the writings of the Apostles. They co-confirmed eachother's eye witness testimony. Each wrote their own account. The parallels are, of course, unquestionable.
I personally believe that it is much easier to identify with Jesus Christ- a man- who walked, talked, breathed, etc., than it is to relate to God the Father, who is "intangible".
Does that make sense?
In my conversion, I started with Jesus. From Him, I came to know the Father. But only through prayer and devotion.
I understand completely what you're saying- I felt the same way. It's very hard to believe in a God that is unseen.
But as for me, when I could read history of Christ, and come to accept His life story, the belief in God came quite naturally. Smiler
quote:
I understand completely what you're saying- I felt the same way. It's very hard to believe in a God that is unseen.
But as for me, when I could read history of Christ, and come to accept His life story, the belief in God came quite naturally.

I was a believer until my early teens. Where you read and accepted it, I read it and came to realize I didn't believe it any more. I stress to bill and peter both that it had nothing to do with choice, it just happened. IMO for them to insist a person "chooses" to become an atheist is like saying a person chose their sex, race, eye color etc. while in the womb. That's why I tell them and others that the day may come when they realize they don't believe it anymore either.
quote:
That's why I tell them and others that the day may come when they realize they don't believe it anymore either.


That's very true. That day may come for any of "us". As well, it could also come for you to believe again. Smiler
We are fluid creatures. ever changing..
UGH I hope I don't have to EVER say "oh,man, NSNS you were right all along.." lol...God willing, that won't ever happen.
I am constantly praying for a deepening of my conversion, and praying for faith.
quote:
That's very true. That day may come for any of "us". As well, it could also come for you to believe again.
We are fluid creatures. ever changing..
UGH I hope I don't have to EVER say "oh,man, NSNS you were right all along.." lol...God willing, that won't ever happen.
I am constantly praying for a deepening of my conversion, and praying for faith.

The reason I say I will never believe again is quite simple. "Been there, done that", and know the reasons I don't believe, and those reasons will never change. The bible will never change and the story will never change. You don't reverse an opinion unless something changes to make you do that. I'm happy now. The most miserable time I spent was when I pretended to believe. All those days I sat in church bored, feeling like I was living a lie, wanting to be rid of all the trappings and just be myself were unhappy days for me. I keep repeating but it's true, when I finally had enough pretending and told everyone how I felt it was like being let out of prison.
I understand what you are saying. Fully and completely.
But the key here, Jennifer, is that you say you were "pretending" to believe, and never really did. Living a lie.
So it is not outside the realm that one day you may come to truly believe. Unlikely, albeit, but it is still there. Smiler
My experience with oral tradition is spotty, to say the least.

You've played the "Telephone Game" in which you start with a simple phrase, such as "Dogs turn around three times before they lie down". You whisper it to your friend, who whispers it to the next friend down the line, and by the time it gets back to you, it is "Blue sky is only blue because Joe says so"?

Such is oral tradition. Written tradition too, truth be told, with translation after translation by scribes of dubious quality. See Bart Ehrman if you don't believe me.


nsns
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
I understand what you are saying. Fully and completely.
But the key here, Jennifer, is that you say you were "pretending" to believe, and never really did. Living a lie.
So it is not outside the realm that one day you may come to truly believe. Unlikely, albeit, but it is still there. Smiler
The pretending came after I realized I didn't believe anymore. That came about in my teens but I still went to church for years after that. Growing up I was a believer. That's another little "trick" christians use too, the "you were never a believer anyway." But I was, and remember well when I started having doubt about it.
quote:
You've played the "Telephone Game" in which you start with a simple phrase, such as "Dogs turn around three times before they lie down". You whisper it to your friend, who whispers it to the next friend down the line, and by the time it gets back to you, it is "Blue sky is only blue because Joe says so"?

NSNS, people can't even keep the posts in here straight, even when they're right there for them to read.
quote:
That's another little "trick" christians use too, the "you were never a believer anyway." But I was, and remember well when I started having doubt about it.


With all due respect, I was not employing a 'trick'.
From what you stated, I was under the impression that you never really believed. Your words, not mine.
At any rate, it is of no consequence, really, if you are right.
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Veep,

The Gospels were written decades after Jesus' life. It's very unlikely they were written by the Apostles themselves, their being illiterate and, often, dead.
I suggest a bit of bible history.

nsns

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The apostles were tax collectors,doctors ect. Smart people who could write
and did their own writing. You wilfully mislead, is that a lie?


.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
That's another little "trick" christians use too, the "you were never a believer anyway." But I was, and remember well when I started having doubt about it.


With all due respect, I was not employing a 'trick'.
From what you stated, I was under the impression that you never really believed. Your words, not mine.
At any rate, it is of no consequence, really, if you are right.
Where did I say I never believed? Bill is one that uses that trick. I wasn't talking about you. I was 12 or 13 when I started having doubts. I kept going to church into adulthood. The "pretending" came after I realized I just didn't believe anymore but kept on going to church anyway.

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