everything new under the sun.

Hi Nagel,

It is nice that they have let you out of the Closed Ward. But, are you still on medications?

So, to make this short and sweet so that I do not tax your condition -- Yes, God Is Real!

And, regardless of how much the few atheists, secularist, and other non-believers huff and puff -- we Christian believers are still on the Religion Forum to share with those thousands of readers who drop in to read -- but, most often do not post.

If, while sharing with the other Christians, the new Christians, and the new seekers -- we accidentally drop a seed of salvation into fertile soil within a non-believer -- that's just one more possible victory for the Holy Spirit. But, our target market is still those standing in the background reading all this.

Thank you for you concern. Now, go take your medication and check back into the ward. Someone is looking for you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:
you're wasting your time now. granted, it's entertaining, but it's pointless.

But it IS entertaining.

You should have done everyone a favor and finished off that bottle and passed out cold.

Since you chose to out yourself here a couple of months back and give your real name, I am sorry to say that I know you.

That being the case, taking ANY advice from you would be like taking child care advice from Susan Smith.

Go back to lurking...I think that suits you best.

Good post nagel, you're right on all accounts.

I haven't learned anything new about religion, but I've learned more about

the people here than I wanted to know. But it's good know. Only a few here

are worth talking to about anything. For the most part, people are crap.


Iv

Nagel, ol' buddy.....Sounds like ya need to go take yer head for a sh!t.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
You should have done everyone a favor and finished off that bottle and passed out cold.

Since you chose to out yourself here a couple of months back and give your real name, I am sorry to say that I know you.

That being the case, taking ANY advice from you would be like taking child care advice from Susan Smith.

Go back to lurking...I think that suits you best.

i outed myself and gave my real name? if you say so.
you may be sorry to say you know me, but i'm pretty certain you don't. i know i don't know you.

so prove it. send me an email. show me you know me.

regardless....

so you're saying that my post was untrue?

how many people has the athiest side converted away from believing in the sky fairy since you've been here?

and how many people have been turn from their godless worship of science to a life of faith in the same time?

there's just one guy i cna think of.. and he left the forum saying he needed to re think and re evaluate his position on it all... which isn't automatically a declaration of jumping off the god boat...

i was just trying to point out the pointlessness of this whole forum.

believers will go on believing... non believers will continue to disbelieve... nothing the two camps can say to each other will make any difference in the long run.

i'm not really sure why bringing this to light suddenly made you decide i was De Debil...
but honestly.. i don't know you, so i don't really care what you think of me. i also don't know who susan smith is, so the insult failed to reach it's mark.

you seem to think you know me... you are clearly sadly mistaken.

but whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by INVICTUS:
Good post nagel, you're right on all accounts.

I haven't learned anything new about religion, but I've learned more about

the people here than I wanted to know. But it's good know. Only a few here

are worth talking to about anything. For the most part, people are crap.


Iv

pretty much. there are a few bright shining exceptions... but only a very few.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
You should have done everyone a favor and finished off that bottle and passed out cold.

Since you chose to out yourself here a couple of months back and give your real name, I am sorry to say that I know you.

That being the case, taking ANY advice from you would be like taking child care advice from Susan Smith.

Go back to lurking...I think that suits you best.

i outed myself and gave my real name? if you say so.
you may be sorry to say you know me, but i'm pretty certain you don't. i know i don't know you.

so prove it. send me an email. show me you know me.

regardless....

so you're saying that my post was untrue?

how many people has the athiest side converted away from believing in the sky fairy since you've been here?

and how many people have been turn from their godless worship of science to a life of faith in the same time?

there's just one guy i cna think of.. and he left the forum saying he needed to re think and re evaluate his position on it all... which isn't automatically a declaration of jumping off the god boat...

i was just trying to point out the pointlessness of this whole forum.

believers will go on believing... non believers will continue to disbelieve... nothing the two camps can say to each other will make any difference in the long run.

i'm not really sure why bringing this to light suddenly made you decide i was De Debil...
but honestly.. i don't know you, so i don't really care what you think of me. i also don't know who susan smith is, so the insult failed to reach it's mark.

you seem to think you know me... you are clearly sadly mistaken.

but whatever.

quote:

Thenagel.

once upon a time, the largest most popular privately owned BBS in the northern half of alabama was ran by a guy named Fallen Angel.
he was a pretty serious athiest, pretty serious liberal democrat.
His board was a haven for free thinkers. He told people right up front, ' a place wehre politics and religion ashing were no nos".
this was becaues i didn't want to deal with crap like this on my BBS.
he also drank a lot. during his time with this BBS, called The Ninth Circle, he often talked to people in person.. in a Sysop Chat.... and, intoxicated, Fallen Angel often typo'd his Nick... to read Fallen Nagel.
through this era, he found a short story called 'the Egg of the Glak". the protagonist in this story was a guy, a scientist named Dr. Nagel. the antagonist refered him as The Nagel. it's a cute story. look it up.

it struck a drunken cord. i became Thenagel.
my real name is Daniel.
the rest of it, if you don't already know, isn't relevent.
if you do know, Hey! How are ya?

Maybe you were drinking then too..

quote:

Originally posted by Road Puppy:
Nagel, ol' buddy.....Sounds like ya need to go take yer head for a sh!t.

LOL.. great line.

you think so Puppy?

ok bro.. show me where i'm wrong.
give me an example of anything that has been resolved here on the religion forum between the believers and the athiests...

give me one example of something that wasn't a well educated (sometimes) well written (sometimes) version of :
Is Too!
Is Not!
Is Too!
Is Not!

...until everyone loses interest and the thread dies out, unsettled, only to start up again in a different thread, on a different topic, but with the same root argument.

i was a little more harsh on the athiest side in my original post, because this is the religion forum, and they came here.. like, if a couple of alabama fans started logging into an auburn forum to bash cam newton, the bama fans would carry the greater wrongdoing... see what i mean?

if it was an athiest forum, and bill showed up acting like.. well, bill, he'd be the one more in the wrong..

i'm not trying to say they are wrong.. i'm just saying why i picked on them.. they are the ones wasting their time trying to argue a point that no one else will ever agree to, except for other people who already are on their side.
now.. at the same time, i also admit that if the two sides didn't conflict with each other, this whole forum would be as interesting as grass clippings.

'god sure is great.'
'yup.'

or

'i sure am glad god isn't real'
'yup.'

my only point was that the athiests are wasting their time by coming in here and arguing the point because they haven't, and never will make any difference on who believes what.

and i guess Jank was deeply offended that i pointed out that her words have been totally wasted - that the people she was hoping to influence and bring to the light of non-belief aren't ever going to change sides.

at the bottom line.. one side says 'God Exists" and the other side came here and said "god is fiction", and the two sides will never agree, so why spend countless hours trying?


so... show me that i'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

Maybe you were drinking then too..

ok.. sorry.. i thought you meant you believed you acctually knew me...

ok.. my first name is daniel.. most call me dan these days..

i didn't realize that being aware of my first name meant you knew me well enough to regret the experience.

Hello..I do know you. I even know your last name, although since you didn't give that information in a public forum I will not either.

I am sure that there are many people that would know who you were with the information you gave. I remember someone else commenting on it also.

I know you Dan. You know me. I would rather not associate with you or allow you to have my personal identification here. So no email will be sent. You outed yourself. Your choice. I choose not to.

How many Daniel's that ran a BBS named The Ninth Circle do you think live in this area anyway? Geez....

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Hello..I do know you. I even know your last name, although since you didn't give that information in a public forum I will not either.

I am sure that there are many people that would know who you were with the information you gave. I remember someone else commenting on it also.

I know you Dan. You know me. I would rather not associate with you or allow you to have my personal identification here. So no email will be sent. You outed yourself. Your choice. I choose not to.

How many Daniel's that ran a BBS named The Ninth Circle do you think live in this area anyway? Geez....

LOL...

you do realize that you haven't acctually said anything that wasn't already in the post i made, right?

but ok, lets assume you do know my last name.

that still doesn't mean you know me. i know the name barack obama. even know his middle name. doesn't mean i acctually know him.

so you know my name. you don't know me.
and, i don't know you, and more importantly, i don't care.
why would you think i give a rats fanny aboput who you are?
the idea of sending me an email was to show you know my address.. my real email address, not the one i use as a spamcatcher.
the people who know me have that address.

if you don't know it, you're just blowing smoke.

and don't worry... the people who acctually do know me would never fail to realize you aren't associated with me.
the people who don't know me, well, i don't care what they think about any associations that i may or may not have.

Are you requesting I post more of your personal information here in the forums? That is up to you. I would never out anyone, ever. You ask how I knew you...you said you never posted your name, I showed you that you had. Dan, the point of my original post was this...

Because I DO know you personally, and have for years any critique you might have of me or basically anyone else on here is useless. Susan Smith is the woman who pushed her two children into a river while strapped into their car seats and watched them drown. So since I know you I take any advice or "words of wisdom" you might say about as seriously as I would her on child care.

I thankfully have not had to have any kind of personal contact with you for some time now. I want to keep it that way. When I realized who you were it was upsetting to think I had at anytime pondered your thoughts as valid.

I am not here to convert. I have made that clear many times. I am here for others like me. I came to this forum feeling alone in my non-belief. I didn't know anyone personally that was not religious in some form or fashion. Finding others gave me support and comfort. I actually know I have been that person of at least 2 people here on the forum. So I will stay, and I will continue. I don't care if the christians ever change their minds. Makes no difference to me. What it does is give me and other atheist a means of putting our views out there for others that ARE interested to see.

I always think it is hilarious when some one post on the forums that it is "pitiful" that everyone else post on the forums....What does that say about you? Do you have a reason, or a purpose for being here?

I do.

Oh and I really hope you hold on to your new found belief. You stated on here once in a post that your belief is all that gives your life meaning and keeps you from shooting people in the head. By all means...please keep on believing. I think we would all agree on that.

Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

I like your post O No. I think that is true for all of us here.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Are you requesting I post more of your personal information here in the forums? That is up to you. I would never out anyone, ever. You ask how I knew you...you said you never posted your name, I showed you that you had. Dan, the point of my original post was this...

fair enough. no, i hadn't forgotten that i'd posted that bit, but having read that bit doesn't mean you know me.
i read once, form some other poster in here, that the times daily regards identifying yourself or others as against the rules of the forum, so i think you're correct to not go there.. but you're the one that claims to know me. and now you say ' and have for years'.
well, i still go back to just because you know my name, even if you've known it for years, doesn't mean you know me.
heh.. for that matter, if someone made it a point to follow me around this forum and read everything i've ever written here, doesn't mean they know me either.

all i'm saying is, no matter what you think, clearly you don't know me, even tho you think you do. until i'm offered proof otherwise, i laugh at your claim.
fortunatly for us both, i really don't care. so it really doesn't matter. even if we've met, you're obviously insignificant in my life at this time, so who you are and who i am doesn't make any difference.

quote:

Because I DO know you personally, and have for years any critique you might have of me or basically anyone else on here is useless. Susan Smith is the woman who pushed her two children into a river while strapped into their car seats and watched them drown. So since I know you I take any advice or "words of wisdom" you might say about as seriously as I would her on child care.

i offer no advise. i have never made any claim to any wisdom. so i guess it's lucky for you that you don't even have to discount it.
i still don't know who susan smith is. i see know why you made the referance to her, but i don't recall any of that. i try to avoid the news as much as i can. this story is a great example of why i avoid the news.

quote:

I thankfully have not had to have any kind of personal contact with you for some time now. I want to keep it that way. When I realized who you were it was upsetting to think I had at anytime pondered your thoughts as valid.

LOL.. so.. did this loathing for me begin on this forum because you think you realized who i am, or do you now loathe me because of something i said on here?
just curiosity...

you shouldn't think anything i said was valid. when i'm talking to people almost everything i say is nothing more that how i feel at that exact minute.
i rarely discuss my real true inner feelings with people unless i know them very very well. most of what i've written here has been seat of my pants, heat of the moment, make it up as i go. this isn't to say i've lied about anything, but if i had been in a different mood when i started a post, the post might have been completly different.
i do have a few sacred beliefs, inviolate, but except for skating around the edges a couple of times, those have never come up here...

quote:

I am not here to convert. I have made that clear many times. I am here for others like me. I came to this forum feeling alone in my non-belief. I didn't know anyone personally that was not religious in some form or fashion. Finding others gave me support and comfort. I actually know I have been that person of at least 2 people here on the forum. So I will stay, and I will continue. I don't care if the christians ever change their minds. Makes no difference to me. What it does is give me and other atheist a means of putting our views out there for others that ARE interested to see.

well good then. if that's the case, then my original post didn't have anything to do with you after all.
if you were trying to forward the cause of atheism, then you were just wasting your time.
which was the whole point of that first post.

quote:

I always think it is hilarious when some one post on the forums that it is "pitiful" that everyone else post on the forums....What does that say about you? Do you have a reason, or a purpose for being here?

I do.

sometimes i do. sometime i hope to get soemone to see the other side of the issue. not change their mind, just help them see the other side. what they think about it is none of my concern.
sometimes i come to see if someone has presented a new angle to something, something to give me a new way to think about things.
sometimes i come for entertainment, to chuckle at the ignorant closed mindedness of some people.
sometimes i come just to kill time. cause i just finished the new book, and i don't have anything else new to read, and there is nothing better to do. somethign to relieve the boredom.

again.. i didn't say pitiful.. i was just pointing out that if you're here to convert one side or the other, you're wasting your time.

quote:

Oh and I really hope you hold on to your new found belief. You stated on here once in a post that your belief is all that gives your life meaning and keeps you from shooting people in the head. By all means...please keep on believing. I think we would all agree on that.

yeah.. everyone missed the point on that one.

1st - i don't have a new found belief. i realized that what i believed wasn't what i thought it was. i've come to understand my belief better, to give it better definition and clarity. a lot of the things that were conflicted in me are no longer conflicted. things make better sense. a lot of that was caused by things you said and some things puppy said and veep said. some others, but mostly you three said things and asked questions that caused me to re-evaluate a little.

2nd i never said my belief was the only thing that gave my life meaning. that's never ever been true. my wife and my children are the meaning for my life, and this as always been the case.

what i said was, if a person doesn't believe in eternal punishment or reward, why would there be a reason, in the long run, to not be horrible and run around shooting people and robbing and so on. if there is no reward, no punishment, then why would a person care about what other humans thought about him?
so they think he's scum.. so what? why does that matter? so people hate him.. he's got piles of money, huge houses, sweet cars, and the best women money can buy. why would he care what other people think?

so.. as i said.. i can't see why, if i didn't believe in an after life, what would be the reason to stop me from running around shooting people and taking what i want.
because if i'm not going to be punished for being vile, and i can be rich happy and have all the best toys, then i dont' care if people think i'm vile. why on earth would i? why would it matter? so you hate me.. so what.. i have billions of dollars. i'm going to buy every company you get a job with and fire you, just to amuse myself because you said bad things about me.

i was trying to illustrate a point... but it's been more than 15 minutes ago, so i don't really remember what the point was, exactly...

however, the acctual answer, for me, is - my wife.
she would never be able to live with someone capable of murder, theft and pillage, so even if i didn't believe in an after life, the need for my wife's love would make me conform to societal norms.

Hi, Dan,

glad to see you still regard me fondly, and that you can't seem to stay away from this most tiresome place.

The arguments here are a continuation of a discussion that has gone on for thousands of years. We are threatened by a theocracy in America that likely puts you in the crosshairs as much as it does me. You may, but I cannot sit here on my broad and magnificent keester and do nothing. At the very least I will make people aware that there are other points of view, and that Southern Christianity is not the default position against which all of philosophy and knowledge must be compared.

Besides, it's highly amusing.

Be well, and thanks for playing the game.


nsns

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

i agree with that.

one of the best ways to learn something is to have to teach it to someone else.

just the endless back and forth pointless bickering makes me cranky...

sometimes there have been interesting topics started here... but in almost every case each one ends up at one group saying 'there is no sky fairy' and the other group saying 'IS TOO!'

the classical definition for insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

so i get frustrated watching what might have been an interesting topic spiral down to the same result everytime.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Hi, Dan,

glad to see you still regard me fondly, and that you can't seem to stay away from this most tiresome place.

The arguments here are a continuation of a discussion that has gone on for thousands of years. We are threatened by a theocracy in America that likely puts you in the crosshairs as much as it does me. You may, but I cannot sit here on my broad and magnificent keester and do nothing. At the very least I will make people aware that there are other points of view, and that Southern Christianity is not the default position against which all of philosophy and knowledge must be compared.

Besides, it's highly amusing.

Be well, and thanks for playing the game.


nsns

heh.

i have no more use for a theocracy than you do.
the very idea of such terrifies me. really teriffies me.
i know what a real thocracy would mean. i think you do as well. i'm afraid not enough people really grasp the situation.

but i don't think that hanging out in a newspaper message board is going to make any difference on the issue.

however, the highly amusing part i can respect.

it's part of the same reason i'm here, at times.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Hi, Dan,

glad to see you still regard me fondly, and that you can't seem to stay away from this most tiresome place.

The arguments here are a continuation of a discussion that has gone on for thousands of years. We are threatened by a theocracy in America that likely puts you in the crosshairs as much as it does me. You may, but I cannot sit here on my broad and magnificent keester and do nothing. At the very least I will make people aware that there are other points of view, and that Southern Christianity is not the default position against which all of philosophy and knowledge must be compared.
Besides, it's highly amusing.
Be well, and thanks for playing the game.
nsns

---------------------------------------

ns...I don't believe theocracy is your fear, it's your excuse.


Iv

My excuse, eh?

As if I hold the superior position, and can pick and choose my excuses for imparting wisdom onto the hoi polloi?

I accept your submission. Now go, and worship no more.


nsns

***Barging**** in here to say "Hey, Nagel, old buddy old pal!"
You've been missed!

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
***Barging**** in here to say "Hey, Nagel, old buddy old pal!"
You've been missed!

LOL.. hey Veep. appearently i haven't been.

but no worries. i've never much cared what people thought of me.
my wife loves me, my kids love me, my sisters love me, no one else is significant enough to worry about.

except for you, of course.

hahaha!
That's okay....
This shouldn't be a "popularity" contest on here. Opinions are not always welcome, or accepted kindly. We all should be used to that. I know my skin has grown thicker.
The important thing is that we hold fast to "our" truth- whatever that may be, and speak the truth without worrying about what others think. And as long as we do so respectfully and kindly, we should all be okay. right? (echo..echo.....echo)....lol..........

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

What she said... except thefsith part.

With all due respect dan: bite me. Im not here to convert anyone. Im here for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

What she said... except thefsith part.

With all due respect dan: bite me. Im not here to convert anyone. Im here for me.

LOL..
no
well, then i guess i owe every one an apology.
i guess there are no athiest on this forum who've ever argued that god isn't real.

i guess i misunderstood.

i'm sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

What she said... except thefsith part.

With all due respect dan: bite me. Im not here to convert anyone. Im here for me.

LOL..
no
well, then i guess i owe every one an apology.
i guess there are no athiest on this forum who've ever argued that god isn't real.

i guess i misunderstood.

i'm sorry.

again, bite me.

you assumed, wrongly, that all of us here are trying to convert each other. you completely and stupidly miss the whole point and showed your true colors.

i could actually not care less what anything thinks of the gods. this forum, to me, is a microcosm of the real world. we discuss things that affect our lives. i hope to gain insight into why people believe what they do. i get to learn a whole lot of things about the bible and how people fool themselves. it's a fascinating sideline.

yes, i fully admit that witnessing a conversion to reason would absolutely make my day. i get just a bit of a thrill when one of the fundies here says, "i know i'll be called an idiot for saying this but...." they finally get it; some beliefs are just a little silly. they know it even if they don't fully admit it to themselves.

many of the religious folks here (the newer ones) have never talked to a live atheist. i met my first one long ago on one of the message boards you frequented. if anything, we teach them that we don't actually worship the devil.

that said, if you don't like the discussions, then why the hell are you here? to come in here and call everyone a bunch of names because we do not fit your warped and ignorant view of why we are here is rude and condescending. buzz off, dan. really. we won't miss you. there will be plenty of stupid people to take your place.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:
Nagel, there is some good that comes out of these forums. When you teach, you learn. And when you try to explain your thoughts, they become clearer in your own mind.

When I try to explain my FAITH, that faith becomes stronger.

What she said... except thefsith part.

With all due respect dan: bite me. Im not here to convert anyone. Im here for me.

LOL..
no
well, then i guess i owe every one an apology.
i guess there are no athiest on this forum who've ever argued that god isn't real.

i guess i misunderstood.

i'm sorry.

again, bite me.

you assumed, wrongly, that all of us here are trying to convert each other. you completely and stupidly miss the whole point and showed your true colors.

i could actually not care less what anything thinks of the gods. this forum, to me, is a microcosm of the real world. we discuss things that affect our lives. i hope to gain insight into why people believe what they do. i get to learn a whole lot of things about the bible and how people fool themselves. it's a fascinating sideline.

yes, i fully admit that witnessing a conversion to reason would absolutely make my day. i get just a bit of a thrill when one of the fundies here says, "i know i'll be called an idiot for saying this but...." they finally get it; some beliefs are just a little silly. they know it even if they don't fully admit it to themselves.

many of the religious folks here (the newer ones) have never talked to a live atheist. i met my first one long ago on one of the message boards you frequented. if anything, we teach them that we don't actually worship the devil.

that said, if you don't like the discussions, then why the hell are you here? to come in here and call everyone a bunch of names because we do not fit your warped and ignorant view of why we are here is rude and condescending. buzz off, dan. really. we won't miss you. there will be plenty of stupid people to take your place.

Aww... well, now you've gone and hurt my wittle feelings.

if what i said doesn't apply to you.. if you aren't trying to convert people to the light of reason...
.. then obviously i wasn't talking about you, so why get so annoyed?

/shrug.

No, moron, the point is that your rant doesn't apply to hardly anyone here.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
No, moron, the point is that your rant doesn't apply to hardly anyone here.

if my rant doesn't have a target, then wouldn't it make you the moron for gettign your panties in a twist about it?

i mean.. if someone else posted something that i didn't think was applicable to anyone, then i'd ignore and move on, and just figure they were having a bad day.

but for some reason, even tho it appearently doesn't apply to anyone, you seem have gotten your knickers is a serious bunch over this..

makes me wonder why..
a little, anyway. not a lot, but a little.