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quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
A very good "read" and I saw myself in most of what he said. I've said to bill and others before, no one wakes up one day and says, "I think I'll be an atheist". It's a process and his "de-conversion" is a lot like it happened to me.

http://de-conversion.com/2008/...her-to-good-atheist/

Hi Jennifer,

In my opinion, this man was a professed Christian -- but, not a confessed believer. He knew intellectually about God; to a great extent, he even believed in God. But, I seriously doubt that he ever confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I have met folks like this. In 1970, long before I became a Christian believer -- I met a lady who told me that she and her husband had graduated from a solid Christian school. He became a pastor -- but, like this man, the money was not enough. So, this husband left the pastorate to become a business consultant.

They now drove new BMWs, lived in Newport Beach, and had a comfortable lifestyle -- in the material sense.

Yet, that did not stop the wife from connecting with me. Yes, it was wrong; but, hey, I was as pagan as anyone else at that time. Live, laugh, and make merry -- or anyone else.

Their graduating from a Christian school and his becoming a pastor, like the man in your article -- did not make them Christian believers.

But, good try.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Their graduating from a Christian school and his becoming a pastor, like the man in your article -- did not make them Christian believers.

Sorry bill, he was as much or more of a christian than you profess to be. So using your logic the man you keep making threads about was never an atheist. You will never believe that people move past a belief in your god. I'm not here to change anyone's mind but I will tell you what I have told you before, the day could come when your common sense kicks in and you, just like him and others who become atheists, will "wake up". I'm not surprised the woman boinked you. Like I said earlier- the worse things and worse behavior can be found in church.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Their graduating from a Christian school and his becoming a pastor, like the man in your article -- did not make them Christian believers.

I'm not surprised the woman boinked you. Like I said earlier- the worse things and worse behavior can be found in church.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT - THEY WERE NOT STILL IN CHURCH - THEY WERE IN THE WORLD, FOR MONEY!

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quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Sorry Bill.


LMAO!

Yeah Bill, answer the question. Would that make your Lee Strobel not a real atheist?

Lee Strobel is a con man. Talk about someone out in the world for the money. Geesh! He has made a ton of money off of Christians like you. He will continue to do so.

Oh yeah, your bathroom/tub analogy sux. I am not going to reply over in your NEW thread, because I really dislike redundancy. I will just stick to this thread from now on while discussing the subject of conversion with you.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Their graduating from a Christian school and his becoming a pastor, like the man in your article -- did not make them Christian believers.

Sorry bill, he was as much or more of a christian than you profess to be.

AND, YOU KNOW THIS "HOW"?
I "know this" by reading what he wrote, recognizing the feelings, and by the way YOU post.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Their graduating from a Christian school and his becoming a pastor, like the man in your article -- did not make them Christian believers.

Sorry bill, he was as much or more of a christian than you profess to be.

AND, YOU KNOW THIS "HOW"?
I "know this" by reading what he wrote, recognizing the feelings, and by the way YOU post.

Hi Jennifer

What, specifically, did this man write that said that he definitely has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

And, what have I written that says that I have not?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, you're sickening. I don't think you even read it.

He said:
I was a changed man at my conversion one cold February morning in 1994. What I felt Christ did for me was all too apparent in my mind. I decided to live for him since he gave so much for me, and I was so thankful that I had escaped the eternal flames of Hell that awaited me for my former lifestyle’s conduct! From then on, my life would change in ways I never imagined.

During the first year of my conversion, I read the bible through, bought perhaps 50 apologetic books and Christian evidence materials, and read them through nearly at the pace of one book per night. Nothing else seemed important to me anymore except the study of God’s word. I was a living, breathing, scripture quoting machine. Only a couple of months after my conversion, I found that I had an easier time memorizing than anyone I knew, so I put this skill to work. This came in handy as I became a determined personal evangelist.

From me, no one was safe from an argument on religion! I’d talked to everyone I knew, beginning with my close family, my friends, and my acquaintances, and they all knew where I stood on the issues: Jesus was the way, Genesis is accurate in all its teachings (and literal too), and only those in the Lord’s true church (the Church of Christ to which I belonged) would be saved on the last day.
Yeah that is usually his and other christians answer.

I know that when I was a believer I was truly a believer. I also was baptized and confessed my sins and accepted jesus as my lord and savior.

I'm set right Bill? Done, finished, on my way to the glory train!

I know why it is so hard for you to admit that someone could be a true believing christian and then later began to question it and become atheist. It scares you to think like that. You do not want to examine that possibility because your belief is based on superstition and a flawed and unproven document. I would probably be afraid to see the truth too. If you looked to hard at it your house of cards will fall down.
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.


<sigh>

and what if you are wrong and thor is the one true god? thor does not strike me as one who would be merciful to you. what if you are supposed to worship the predominant god on this earth: Allah? what if the one true god is that 12 armed elephant of hinduism?

you better make damm sure you are worshiping the right one. if you are wrong, i imagine the uishment will be even worse than and atheist's punishment.
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.


Also.....Once upon a time there were 3 little pigs. One built his house out of sticks, the other straw, and the last one bricks.

Along came a big bad wolf. The wolf warned the first and second pig to open the door or he was going to blow it in. They refused he blew their houses away, yet they escaped to the pigs house made out of brick. Wolf followed. Made the same threats but this time could not blow the house away. He was ultimately captured in a pot of water by the pigs and they ate him.

Moral....don't be stupid and build you life upon flimsy, unproven material.
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.

You believe what you believe because of where you were born. Had you been born into a different culture your "god" would be different. My question to you is why you think you have it right over all other religions and atheism? You should concern yourself with that question.

Atheists don't believe in a god or gods. Others worship different gods. Maybe hundreds. So out of all the gods people worship you have picked one. It seems to me an atheist is the one with the better chance of being right. Does it make sense to you that your god would take a person that has always done right in their life, but is an atheist, and punish them for not believing, but would reward a christian that did believe but led a much worse life than the atheist?

And like unob said, you could end up facing some other god you had always denied existed. How would you plead your case then? You won't consider that because you are convinced that you're right. I'm just as convinced that I'm right and there are no gods. In other words, you are in the same boat with atheists. Get in, sit down, hang on, shut up.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.

You believe what you believe because of where you were born. Had you been born into a different culture your "god" would be different. My question to you is why you think you have it right over all other religions and atheism? You should concern yourself with that question.

Atheists don't believe in a god or gods. Others worship different gods. Maybe hundreds. So out of all the gods people worship you have picked one. It seems to me an atheist is the one with the better chance of being right. Does it make sense to you that your god would take a person that has always done right in their life, but is an atheist, and punish them for not believing, but would reward a christian that did believe but led a much worse life than the atheist?

And like unob said, you could end up facing some other god you had always denied existed. How would you plead your case then? You won't consider that because you are convinced that you're right. I'm just as convinced that I'm right and there are no gods. In other words, you are in the same boat with atheists. Get in, sit down, hang on, shut up.

------------------------------------

Someone could ask themselves, what other gods have displayed signs of existence.
The only one is the God of Abraham.

If you don't follow religious happening, your not aware of whats going on with God.
Even some believers of the one God won't admit it, saying God doesn't have anything
to do with the people, and hasn't for two thousand years. Not true, Big mistake.

God has more than shown himself from Adam & Eve to date, we ignore it, not believe
and even try to disprove it because it scares people.

Hes right there, but some people can't see for the trees.


.
quote:
Someone could ask themselves, what other gods have displayed signs of existence.
The only one is the God of Abraham.

If you don't follow religious happening, your not aware of whats going on with God.
Even some believers of the one God won't admit it, saying God doesn't have anything
to do with the people, and hasn't for two thousand years. Not true, Big mistake.

God has more than shown himself from Adam & Eve to date, we ignore it, not believe
and even try to disprove it because it scares people.

Hes right there, but some people can't see for the trees.

How has he shown himself, and how do you know it's the god you worship that you think has shown himself to you? Again, if you acknowledge your god there are hundreds of other gods that others believe in-if gods existed that would cut way down the chance the one you worship would be the correct one. Why would yours and no one elses exist? In their culture and their minds they claim as much "proof" of theirs existing as you do yours.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
No other god has shown evidence except the God of Abraham.

Bar none.


.
Well again, I've never seen any proof he or any other gods existed, and once more, other religions claim proof of their gods too.

--------------------

I can back mine up, they can't.

But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.

What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.


.
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
--------------------
I can't add anymore to it.
-----

I can back mine up, they can't.

But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.

What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.


.
[/QUOTE]Of course you can't add anything. There is no proof and all you keep saying is you can back yours up. You can't back yours up any more than they back theirs up. All any of you have are stories, unverified or debunked and passed down as truth. Just like all old fairy tales told.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennifer:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by INVICTUS:
--------------------
I can't add anymore to it.
-----

I can back mine up, they can't.

But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.

What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.
-----------------------

You couldn't be more wrong, well you are more wrong, so I
guess you can. And I know you are.

.
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennifer:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by INVICTUS:
--------------------
I can't add anymore to it.
-----

I can back mine up, they can't.

But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.

What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.
-----------------------

You couldn't be more wrong, well you are more wrong, so I
guess you can. And I know you are.

.
Posting links to silly sites that support silly urban legends isn't proof. And for the last time, any religion can claim they have proof, and offer as much as you say you do. But it's all bunk. Argue with them, I don't have a god in this fight.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennifer:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by INVICTUS:
--------------------
I can't add anymore to it.
-----

I can back mine up, they can't.

But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.

What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.
-----------------------

You couldn't be more wrong, well you are more wrong, so I
guess you can. And I know you are.

.
Posting links to silly sites that support silly urban legends isn't proof. And for the last time, any religion can claim they have proof, and offer as much as you say you do. But it's all bunk. Argue with them, I don't have a god in this fight.

------------------------

..........So say you, who know nothing about it.

With your lack of comprehension skills you aren't going to understand
any way.

I can back mine up, they can't.
But I'm glad you made a choice and sticking to it.
What you said isn't very sound, but the desidion is your to make.

If you don't have a dog in this (so called fight) why do you keep
smashing your obviously obnoxious ignorant nose in it???


Iv
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
No other god has shown evidence except the God of Abraham.

Bar none.
.


i heard thunder last night. that is incontrovertible proof of the existence of thor.

--------------------------------

Good boy, unob, now be still while adults are talking. Go find the thunder man.


.
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.


Why would God send the man that fulfills His plan to hell?
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by I am the Fireman:
God chose twelve disciples to walk with him and preach and teach. Eleven of those men were Christians, one was not. The one sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That man, Judas, went to hell. Unbelievers will also suffer that same fate weather you believe it or not.
All athiest who read this, WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT?
Eternity is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg time.

Why would God send the man that fulfills His plan to hell?

Hi Crusty,

Pharaoh fulfilled God's plan also -- but I don't expect to see him in heaven.

The Bible does tell us that Judas was not saved; so, he is in Hades/Torment awaiting the fast train to hell -- with a stop-over at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Since I know you do not want to join Judas and Pharaoh in hell -- now would be a good time to get right with God and become a Christ Follower.

Keep in mind that none of us knows how far behind us those six strong men who will carry us into church for the last time (or, for some, the first time) are walking.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Stop it, Bill. You need to get your own house in order before you worry about mine. When I want a holier-than-thou preacher telling me I'm going to hell, I'll come visit your church

In the meantime, I wonder Bill, what your thoughts will be when God pulls the same trick on you that he did on Judas?

Hey, Judas, I've got a job for you. And your reward is eternal dangnation.
Last edited by CrustyMac
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
Someone could ask themselves, what other gods have displayed signs of existence.
The only one is the God of Abraham.

If you don't follow religious happening, your not aware of whats going on with God.
Even some believers of the one God won't admit it, saying God doesn't have anything
to do with the people, and hasn't for two thousand years. Not true, Big mistake.

God has more than shown himself from Adam & Eve to date, we ignore it, not believe
and even try to disprove it because it scares people.

Hes right there, but some people can't see for the trees.


All religious people of every faith in existence make the same claim. I'm sorry to report that if you have a look around, Christianity is not special. What you have in common with all the other faiths is that you have nothing to back it up. Just belief. And if that's your thing, great. Enjoy it, just don't try to prove anything or threaten anyone with religious "knowledge".

Whenever the faithful try to "prove" anything or cite "evidence" they are quickly and broadly dismissed for their low standards. Sometimes by people of their very own faith, more so by people of other faiths and especially by people with verifiable standards of what words like proof and evidence actually mean. It's all explainable. There is no magic
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
What you have in common with all the other faiths is that you have nothing to back it up. Just belief. And if that's your thing, great. Enjoy it, just don't try to prove anything or threaten anyone with religious "knowledge".

Whenever the faithful try to "prove" anything or cite "evidence" they are quickly and broadly dismissed for their low standards. Sometimes by people of their very own faith, more so by people of other faiths and especially by people with verifiable standards of what words like proof and evidence actually mean. It's all explainable. There is no magic

-----------------------------------

Thats where you're completely wrong. But I'll not cite evidence again or
try to prove anything. (Does no good)

Your lack of knowledge is your own responsibility.

By any chance, could there be a return favor of stop telling me there
isn't a God, Christianity is a lie and the endless mindless one liners

Your attack on believers is as much if not more than you receive.

Iv
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
What you have in common with all the other faiths is that you have nothing to back it up. Just belief. And if that's your thing, great. Enjoy it, just don't try to prove anything or threaten anyone with religious "knowledge".

Whenever the faithful try to "prove" anything or cite "evidence" they are quickly and broadly dismissed for their low standards. Sometimes by people of their very own faith, more so by people of other faiths and especially by people with verifiable standards of what words like proof and evidence actually mean. It's all explainable. There is no magic

-----------------------------------

Thats where you're completely wrong. But I'll not cite evidence again or
try to prove anything. (Does no good)

Your lack of knowledge is your own responsibility.

By any chance, could there be a return favor of stop telling me there
isn't a God, Christianity is a lie and the endless mindless one liners

Your attack on believers is as much if not more than you receive.

Iv


You have no idea what it is like to live in a world where something you know to be unproven and superstitious nonsense is in your face on a daily basis. If you think it is unbearable to have the few atheist on this forum tell you that you are wrong, then you should walk a mile in the shoes of an atheist living in the south.

This is just more example of the false persecution complex on the part of some christians we atheist see all the time. You guys have the upper hand and already can live your lives openly and without recourse, matter of fact you are praised and rewarded for your beliefs by society. So get over the whole "stop picking on me" attitude. It is as made up and fake as your sky god.

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