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Keep in mind that none of us knows how far behind us those six strong men who will carry us into church for the last time (or, for some, the first time) are walking.

Why would they be carrying them into a church? Do you think atheists would/do have their funerals in a church? Not even many christians do today.
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Originally posted by Jankinonya:
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Originally posted by INVICTUS:
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Originally posted by A. Robustus:
What you have in common with all the other faiths is that you have nothing to back it up. Just belief. And if that's your thing, great. Enjoy it, just don't try to prove anything or threaten anyone with religious "knowledge".

Whenever the faithful try to "prove" anything or cite "evidence" they are quickly and broadly dismissed for their low standards. Sometimes by people of their very own faith, more so by people of other faiths and especially by people with verifiable standards of what words like proof and evidence actually mean. It's all explainable. There is no magic

-----------------------------------

Thats where you're completely wrong. But I'll not cite evidence again or
try to prove anything. (Does no good)

Your lack of knowledge is your own responsibility.

By any chance, could there be a return favor of stop telling me there
isn't a God, Christianity is a lie and the endless mindless one liners

Your attack on believers is as much if not more than you receive.

Iv


You have no idea what it is like to live in a world where something you know to be unproven and superstitious nonsense is in your face on a daily basis. If you think it is unbearable to have the few atheist on this forum tell you that you are wrong, then you should walk a mile in the shoes of an atheist living in the south.

This is just more example of the false persecution complex on the part of some christians we atheist see all the time. You guys have the upper hand and already can live your lives openly and without recourse, matter of fact you are praised and rewarded for your beliefs by society. So get over the whole "stop picking on me" attitude. It is as made up and fake as your sky god.


*Standing Ovation*

nsns
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Originally posted by Jennifer:
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Keep in mind that none of us knows how far behind us those six strong men who will carry us into church for the last time (or, for some, the first time) are walking.

Why would they be carrying them into a church? Do you think atheists would/do have their funerals in a church? Not even many christians do today.


i will be attending medical school.
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Originally posted by Unobtanium:
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Originally posted by Jennifer:
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Keep in mind that none of us knows how far behind us those six strong men who will carry us into church for the last time (or, for some, the first time) are walking.

Why would they be carrying them into a church? Do you think atheists would/do have their funerals in a church? Not even many christians do today.


i will be attending medical school.
I thought about that. Still considering it but my family is against it. I will be donating anything still usable, but my hope is to live long enough to wear out everything! My funeral won't be in a church.
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Originally posted by semiannualchick:
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Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty, Pharaoh fulfilled God's plan also -- but I don't expect to see him in heaven.

What about Peter? Could Peter be a Christian and deny Christ?

Hi Chick,

You are, of course, referring to the night in the courtyard when Christ was being tried and Peter denied Jesus Christ three times -- as He had prophesied.

Peter, at that time was a disciple of Jesus Christ and an apostle. Yet, at the time he denied Jesus Christ -- he was not yet a Christian believer. If you will recall, in the Bible, when Jesus was arrested and Peter denied Him; Peter truly repented. Yet, none of the apostles, at that time, truly understood the full impact of the deity of Jesus Christ. You will recall that after He was crucified, they gave up and went back to fishing.

When Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary at the tomb -- she ran to the house to tell His disciples that the Savior had risen and she has seen Him. They did not believe her. When Jesus appeared to them, they believed.

When Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, He told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until, ". . . what the Father had promised, 'Which,' He said, 'you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.'" (Acts 1:4-5).

For ten days, 120 of His disciples waited in the Upper Room where they had shared His last Passover Meal. And, then the Holy Spirit, which Jesus had promised -- came upon and into all in the Upper Room. This was the beginning of the Christian church and these were the first true Christian believers.

Why do I say this? Because a Christian believer is one who has, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believed and received His "free gift" of salvation. The moment this happens, the Holy Spirit indwells this person and seals this person until the day of his/her redemption -- which will be the day of his/her death or the Rapture. At this time, Peter and all the others in the Upper Room became Christian believers.

Yes, Peter denied Christ three times that night in the courtyard. But, once he became a saved Christian believer, indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit -- he never turned from Christ. For, having the Holy Spirit within -- a person cannot turn and become a non-believer. No one can evict the Holy Spirit -- and no one can snatch a believer out of the hands of God.

Am I saying that a Christian believer cannot have doubts? No. Many times our faith will waver; many times we will be tempted to sin; many times a Christian may begin to feel doubt. In other words, many times we bend -- but, we never break. Why? Because the glue which holds us to Jesus Christ -- is the Holy Spirit within us.

Chick, are you ready to accept that blessed assurance yet? Please, for your own sake, do not wait too long.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally posted by Jennifer:
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For, having the Holy Spirit within -- a person cannot turn and become a non-believer. No one can evict the Holy Spirit -- and no one can snatch a believer out of the hands of God.

That means that no one can turn to a belief in him then. You're still a pagan.

Hi Jennifer,

In great patience, I ask you to please explain how you took my statement -- and came up with your statement. I will truly appreciate it if you will clear up this confusion for me.

Thank you and God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Simple bill. You say a believer can't change their mind about there being a god. Fine, but that means neither can a non-believer change their mind and come to a belief in god. You can't have it both ways no matter how hard you try. Either people are capable of changing their minds or they're not. So you're still a pagan.
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Originally posted by Jennifer:
Simple bill. You say a believer can't change their mind about there being a god. Fine, but that means neither can a non-believer change their mind and come to a belief in god. You can't have it both ways no matter how hard you try. Either people are capable of changing their minds or they're not. So you're still a pagan.

Hi Jennifer,

There is a very good reason why a believer cannot become a non-believer -- and yet, a non-believer CAN become a true believer.

What happens when a person becomes a believer?

Ephesians 1:13-14, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory."

Ephesians 4:30, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

According to these Scripture passages, the believer is immediately sealed in Him, sealed as God's own possession, and this believer, from that moment until the day of his/her redemption (mortal death or the Rapture) -- has the Holy Spirit within. God will not force Himself on anyone; He will not force anyone to believe and receive His free gift of eternal life.

But, once a person has, of his/her own free will, believed, has received the Holy Spirit within -- no power in heaven or on earth can evict the Holy Spirit. No one, and nothing, can snatch the believer from the hands of God (John 10:28-29). He is our Anchor and we are held firmly in His hands.

On the other hand, the non-believer has no such Anchor, the non-believer has no Holy Spirit within, the non-believer is totally on his/her own to battle the world and all its demonic spirits.

So, the only conclusion we can draw is that the believer is safe within the arms of God -- and, may bend -- but, will not break. He/she cannot and will not leave God's protective love.

But, since the non-believer has nothing but the world, nothing to hang on to, no Anchor in the storms of life -- he/she is adrift in a secular world; which is growing more pagan every day. In this sense, the non-believer is already on the bottom -- so, the only way is UP. And, God is always there, ready to give every non-believer a hand UP. All you have to do is to grasp that Hand of Love and be saved; have eternal life in Christ. There is no better time than right now to accept His hand and His promise of eternal life.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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What Bill was trying to say was that a True/Genuine saved believer having accepted Jesus Christ that God gives that believer the gift of His Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit living, dwelling, existing within the very physical body, of the believer alongside with the believer's created soul/spirit.

This gift, of God, is God's active ministry unto the believer and the presence of God's Holy Spirit changes profoundly the believer in a way that cannot be rationalized away. The Believer experiences God's presence directly and the Holy Spirit, of God, resides within that Believer until their death.

The Holy Spirit has many ministries to the believer among some of them are giving the believer Spiritual gifts and abilities, ability to go to God the Father in prayer conveying thoughts to God that often cannot even be conveyed in words. The Holy Spirit also reveals God's Will unto the Believer and teaches the Believer through the Bibles words. The Holy Spirit also convicts the Believer/Christian of Sin and wrongdoings so that the believer can then confess those sins and remain in a close relationship with God.

The Believer can and does sin and if the believer allows unconfessed sin to remain in their life and allows their life to descend into a life that is against God's will then the Holy Spirit will continue to Convict the believer but the benefits of God's Spirit will not be evident in the life of that Christian and they will be miserable, even more so than someone who is not a Christian.

It is this Holy Spirit's presence that guarantees the legitimacy of the persons conversion. An unbeliever does not have or sense the Holy Spirit and to them there is no God for they have not had that personal relationship with His Holy Spirit. Only through Conviction of that person will they experience the power of God. Conviction where God personally reveals to that person their need for salvation and their insufficiency of their own selves. Only during this conviction can a non-believer experience the power of God and at that time has the ability to accept God's personal invitation to accept Christ sacrifice as their own way to avoid judgment for their sins.

What Bill was trying to say or convey was that in order for a true believer/Christian to lose their salvation then God's Holy Spirit would have to be removed from the believer's body and removed from that Believer. The Holy Spirit being the form of God and God being all powerful then that would be an impossibility for in order for someone to overcome God they would have to be superior to God and overpower God.
I know what bill was "trying" to say. I don't care what bill says. I know what I believed. Bill or no one else can tell me I didn't believe. I didn't sin, I didn't seek out non-believers, (I wouldn't have known where to find one if I had wanted to seek them out). And just so you know, non-believers aren't miserable. IF they are it is not because they don't believe. I'm certainly not miserable. All you're doing is putting a fresh coat of paint on tired old arguments. That same old song and dance of you didn't believe in the first place, you can't be happy without god. SSDD.

It's so funny to me that bill and others will make threads about atheists that "choose" to believe, but turn right around and say you can't lose that belief. If you were honest people you would admit that it can happen. But no, if you admit that you feel like you lost the argument.

That's why I keep saying you can't have it both ways. Either people can change their minds or they can't. Christians spend a lot of time trying their best to convert people to religion. Why would you do that if you don't think they can change? Wouldn't your god do that if it could be done? I honestly had no idea some christians were so rabid and just plain crazy. My mother use to say that some people let religion drive them crazy. I see now what she meant.
Last edited by Jennifer
See what I mean? Crusty thinks Jennifer is pretty bitter too.

CrustyMac
Hall of Famer

Posted 11 March 2011 05:28 PM Hide Post
Jennifer is angry about something, and if you APPEAR to be an apologist for any religion, you are automagically on her bad side. In this case she is as bad as Bill when it comes to derailing a thread.


It's too bad she'll never admit to herself that she has a problem. She'll never find peace until she does.
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Originally posted by O No!:
See what I mean? Crusty thinks Jennifer is pretty bitter too.

CrustyMac
Hall of Famer

Posted 11 March 2011 05:28 PM Hide Post
Jennifer is angry about something, and if you APPEAR to be an apologist for any religion, you are automagically on her bad side. In this case she is as bad as Bill when it comes to derailing a thread.


It's too bad she'll never admit to herself that she has a problem. She'll never find peace until she does.


I didn't say bitter. There is a difference between bitter and angry. I don't really know if Jennifer is angry about something, but she comes across that way.

I doubt that a lack of belief in God is the source of her anger, though.
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Originally posted by CrustyMac:
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Originally posted by O No!:
See what I mean? Crusty thinks Jennifer is pretty bitter too.

CrustyMac
Hall of Famer

Posted 11 March 2011 05:28 PM Hide Post
Jennifer is angry about something, and if you APPEAR to be an apologist for any religion, you are automagically on her bad side. In this case she is as bad as Bill when it comes to derailing a thread.


It's too bad she'll never admit to herself that she has a problem. She'll never find peace until she does.


I didn't say bitter. There is a difference between bitter and angry. I don't really know if Jennifer is angry about something, but she comes across that way.


I doubt that a lack of belief in God is the source of her anger, though.

--------------------------

I agree crusty, more like distemper, they had to shoot that other dog, damm shame.


.
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Sez O No:
No, I don't think that's the source of her anger either, but I do think that the anger consumes her, and that equals bitterness.


I don't know about Jenn being "consumed"...but just from going over the several weeks of posts that I missed while on vacation, Jennifer holds the record for time logged on / posts in this forum.
I would bet "Mr Jennifer" is about tired of TV dinners/take-out...and would be in need of some clean underwear by now!
C'mon Jenn! Get over it and and spend some time cooking up your "Ol Man" some home grub...washing a few clothes...and fetching him a few beers! Big Grin
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Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
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Sez O No:
No, I don't think that's the source of her anger either, but I do think that the anger consumes her, and that equals bitterness.


I don't know about Jenn being "consumed"...but just from going over the several weeks of posts that I missed while on vacation, Jennifer holds the record for time logged on / posts in this forum.
I would bet "Mr Jennifer" is about tired of TV dinners/take-out...and would be in need of some clean underwear by now!
C'mon Jenn! Get over it and and spend some time cooking up your "Ol Man" some home grub...washing a few clothes...and fetching him a few beers! Big Grin
We work together. My job requires being on the computer all day, and this time of the year a great deal of the night. I cook every night, clothes are always done and house is always clean. I get up at 6:30 every day. Tomorrow we will go to TN. Anything else you need to know? Funny how you're here quite a bit too, and I also notice posts from the wee hours of the morning from some. Hope this helps. At least I am here in one ID. I guess if you have multiple IDs it doesn't look like you spend as much time here. FYI he doesn't drink, I don't drink. Unless you count 2 margaritas a year-maybe. Right now I'm watching Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel, working on our website updating prices and pictures, and looking at the TD forum.
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Sez Jennifer:
We work together. My job requires being on the computer all day, and this time of the year a great deal of the night. I cook every night, clothes are always done and house is always clean. I get up at 6:30 every day. Tomorrow we will go to TN. Anything else you need to know? Funny how you're here quite a bit too, and I also notice posts from the wee hours of the morning from some. Hope this helps. At least I am here in one ID. I guess if you have multiple IDs it doesn't look like you spend as much time here. FYI he doesn't drink, I don't drink. Unless you count 2 margaritas a year-maybe. Right now I'm watching Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel, working on our website updating prices and pictures, and looking at the TD forum.


Still on the defensive I see...
You're getting as bad as rocky with the "2 ID" paranoia.
I don't NEED 2...I'm not afraid to say anything I feel like saying. Big Grin
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Sez Jenn:
We work together. My job requires being on the computer all day, and this time of the year a great deal of the night. I cook every night, clothes are always done and house is always clean. I get up at 6:30 every day. Tomorrow we will go to TN. Anything else you need to know? Funny how you're here quite a bit too, and I also notice posts from the wee hours of the morning from some. Hope this helps. At least I am here in one ID. I guess if you have multiple IDs it doesn't look like you spend as much time here. FYI he doesn't drink, I don't drink. Unless you count 2 margaritas a year-maybe. Right now I'm watching Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel, working on our website updating prices and pictures, and looking at the TD forum


A bit touchy are we? Wink
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Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
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Sez Jenn:
We work together. My job requires being on the computer all day, and this time of the year a great deal of the night. I cook every night, clothes are always done and house is always clean. I get up at 6:30 every day. Tomorrow we will go to TN. Anything else you need to know? Funny how you're here quite a bit too, and I also notice posts from the wee hours of the morning from some. Hope this helps. At least I am here in one ID. I guess if you have multiple IDs it doesn't look like you spend as much time here. FYI he doesn't drink, I don't drink. Unless you count 2 margaritas a year-maybe. Right now I'm watching Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel, working on our website updating prices and pictures, and looking at the TD forum


A bit touchy are we? Wink
Touchy? I thought you were wondering why I was up and on the computer, saw no harm in telling you.

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