What4
Sorry, not convinced. There are no original texts of Josephus' works. All we have are "translations" from the philosophically corrupt middle ages. There is a large body of thought that says Josephus' mention of jesus is a Medieval corruption.
Then, you use the bible as proof of your arguments. It's proof of nothing. It's an old collection of stories, arbitrarily edited, dependent on older stories, written by dogmatic men.
DF
quote:Originally posted by what4:
Jesus boldly declared that He was the Son of God, and that He was I AM, without beginning or ending.
There you go again with that. Was he the SON of Gawd or Gawd Himself? It can't be both. He was one or the other.
If he was the son of Gawd, then wasn't Gawd a little harsh when he sent his son down here for some punishment? What did Jesus do to deserve all that, forget to clean his room?
DeepFat
Quote: Sorry, not convinced. There are no original texts of Josephus' works. All we have are "translations" from the philosophically corrupt middle ages.
He asked for other books. I gave him one. As always, a person will believe what they want.
Quote: Then, you use the bible as proof of your arguments. It's proof of nothing.
It’s hard to ignore the odds of prophesies from hundreds to thousands of years ago coming to be fulfilled in one person. Jesus turned the world upside down with His message and His miracles backed up His claims with authority and power. The miracles and healings that so marked the life of Jesus confirmed His testimony that He was the Son of God. But the religious leaders would not accept it, because they already had a made up mind. They considered Christ’s followers as foolish and unlearned people who were deceived by His miracles to believe that He was actually who He said He was. They prided themselves in the knowledge of the writings concerning the law and the prophets, but they could not see so clearly how the prophecies were being fulfilled before their own eyes. Often people will believe what they want, no matter if the evidence is contrary against it. Study what special day it was that Jesus was tried and crucified, and how He was so fittingly examined and searched for fault by the priests, and then selected to be sacrificed outside the walls of the city of Jerusalem. All the things that happened to Jesus coincided in extreme detail and remarkable coincidental timing in relation to the figurative meanings revealed in the religious ceremonial events taking place. It all so came together in such a fitting way, that only God Himself could have planned it all. This was no ordinary time for the Jewish faith. Talk to some person who understands this ceremonial event that was taking place when Jesus was being tried and crucified. Then take a deep and close look, and you will be amazed by it all. Jesus did not offer His life as a ransom for all, until the time had fully come that was before ordained of God, and had been prophesied concerning Him. The very detail in which the Old Testament prophesies were fulfilled concerning Jesus could not have all been manipulated to match, even if someone were trying to do so. How are you going to manipulate your family history, the way you are tortured by others, the timing of your torture, and so many other things that would have been totally out of human control. The bible does prove itself to those who study it in the light of the whole truth it presents. There are deeper mysteries there than what many ever realize. God will reveal Himself to those who truly seek Him. His Word is full of depth, and it is life to those who will hear and receive it.
The Apostle Paul and his writings are an incredible testimony to the reality of Jesus. Paul’s writings have been studied and have been determined to exist only a few years after Jesus had lived, died, and rose again. Paul was a man who with great conviction and sincerity went about to imprison and put to death those who he believed were deceiving the people by their testimony concerning Jesus being the Christ and Son of God. On the way to Damascus to persecute the Christians, he was transformed in His encounter with Jesus. From that day forward Paul may have made more impact on the development of the church than any other disciple of Jesus. The same man who fervently persecuted Christians for their faith, was transformed and willingly suffered great persecution for his testimony concerning Jesus. The one who terrified the Christians with how he persecuted them, later counted His sufferings for Jesus as an honor and a privilege. The writings of Paul concerning Jesus were written in a time when they could have been easily disproved and rebutted by contradictory writings or testimonies of eyewitnesses who could have spoken or written otherwise. But where were they, and where are there writings? Why are they not found preserved by the Jewish culture that considered Jesus to be a blasphemer? Where are the old manuscripts that rebut the testimony of Paul and others concerning Jesus? The miracles of Jesus were common and were well known by thousands of people, and if they had not been true, there would have been an uprising and public mockery of the Christian faith concerning the testimony of Him. All those who hated Jesus could do was to try and destroy His testimony and character. None could deny His miracles. The fact that the manuscripts and letters concerning Jesus were written and read in a time when many still lived who had saw and heard Jesus, helps make them credible. This was not the United Stated my friend. Scoffers mock the New Testament writings today, but it’s hard to convince first hand witnesses that what they saw and heard with their own eyes, never actually took place. It’s about the same as trying to convince those today that truly know Jesus as Lord and Savior, that He is not real, but only a figment of their imagination.
Quote: Sorry, not convinced. There are no original texts of Josephus' works. All we have are "translations" from the philosophically corrupt middle ages.
He asked for other books. I gave him one. As always, a person will believe what they want.
Quote: Then, you use the bible as proof of your arguments. It's proof of nothing.
It’s hard to ignore the odds of prophesies from hundreds to thousands of years ago coming to be fulfilled in one person. Jesus turned the world upside down with His message and His miracles backed up His claims with authority and power. The miracles and healings that so marked the life of Jesus confirmed His testimony that He was the Son of God. But the religious leaders would not accept it, because they already had a made up mind. They considered Christ’s followers as foolish and unlearned people who were deceived by His miracles to believe that He was actually who He said He was. They prided themselves in the knowledge of the writings concerning the law and the prophets, but they could not see so clearly how the prophecies were being fulfilled before their own eyes. Often people will believe what they want, no matter if the evidence is contrary against it. Study what special day it was that Jesus was tried and crucified, and how He was so fittingly examined and searched for fault by the priests, and then selected to be sacrificed outside the walls of the city of Jerusalem. All the things that happened to Jesus coincided in extreme detail and remarkable coincidental timing in relation to the figurative meanings revealed in the religious ceremonial events taking place. It all so came together in such a fitting way, that only God Himself could have planned it all. This was no ordinary time for the Jewish faith. Talk to some person who understands this ceremonial event that was taking place when Jesus was being tried and crucified. Then take a deep and close look, and you will be amazed by it all. Jesus did not offer His life as a ransom for all, until the time had fully come that was before ordained of God, and had been prophesied concerning Him. The very detail in which the Old Testament prophesies were fulfilled concerning Jesus could not have all been manipulated to match, even if someone were trying to do so. How are you going to manipulate your family history, the way you are tortured by others, the timing of your torture, and so many other things that would have been totally out of human control. The bible does prove itself to those who study it in the light of the whole truth it presents. There are deeper mysteries there than what many ever realize. God will reveal Himself to those who truly seek Him. His Word is full of depth, and it is life to those who will hear and receive it.
The Apostle Paul and his writings are an incredible testimony to the reality of Jesus. Paul’s writings have been studied and have been determined to exist only a few years after Jesus had lived, died, and rose again. Paul was a man who with great conviction and sincerity went about to imprison and put to death those who he believed were deceiving the people by their testimony concerning Jesus being the Christ and Son of God. On the way to Damascus to persecute the Christians, he was transformed in His encounter with Jesus. From that day forward Paul may have made more impact on the development of the church than any other disciple of Jesus. The same man who fervently persecuted Christians for their faith, was transformed and willingly suffered great persecution for his testimony concerning Jesus. The one who terrified the Christians with how he persecuted them, later counted His sufferings for Jesus as an honor and a privilege. The writings of Paul concerning Jesus were written in a time when they could have been easily disproved and rebutted by contradictory writings or testimonies of eyewitnesses who could have spoken or written otherwise. But where were they, and where are there writings? Why are they not found preserved by the Jewish culture that considered Jesus to be a blasphemer? Where are the old manuscripts that rebut the testimony of Paul and others concerning Jesus? The miracles of Jesus were common and were well known by thousands of people, and if they had not been true, there would have been an uprising and public mockery of the Christian faith concerning the testimony of Him. All those who hated Jesus could do was to try and destroy His testimony and character. None could deny His miracles. The fact that the manuscripts and letters concerning Jesus were written and read in a time when many still lived who had saw and heard Jesus, helps make them credible. This was not the United Stated my friend. Scoffers mock the New Testament writings today, but it’s hard to convince first hand witnesses that what they saw and heard with their own eyes, never actually took place. It’s about the same as trying to convince those today that truly know Jesus as Lord and Savior, that He is not real, but only a figment of their imagination.
quote:Originally posted by what4:
Paul’s writings have been studied and have been determined to exist only a few years after Jesus had lived, died, and rose again.
So how old was He when he died the second time? Did he marry, have kids, that kinda thing? Or did he simply retire. There's not much written about His activities after reanimation.
Can't blame him id he retired. Death would probably stop me form doing some things, too.
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by what4:
Paul’s writings have been studied and have been determined to exist only a few years after Jesus had lived, died, and rose again.
So how old was He when he died the second time? Did he marry, have kids, that kinda thing? Or did he simply retire. There's not much written about His activities after reanimation.
Can't blame him id he retired. Death would probably stop me form doing some things, too.
I'm not sure if your post is the result of ignorance or a very warped sense of humor. Either way, it's hardly amusing. In fact, it's disgusting.
quote:Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
I'm not sure if your post is the result of ignorance or a very warped sense of humor. Either way, it's hardly amusing. In fact, it's disgusting.
Oh, I'm completely serious. Don't you ever wonder why there wasn't much written about Jesus after he died then lived again? Where did he go? What did he do for a living?
What is so disgusting about wanting to know such a simple thing?
It's like he just gave up after he died, ya know?
gof, go get a copy of The Last Temptation of Christ. I suggest the book, but the movie is pretty good.
Wouldn't it be interesting if stories emerged about L. Ron Hubbard visiting the faithful from the dead? What if only a few people, say Tom Cruise and John Travolta, saw him, but swore to it? Wouldn't Scientologists everywhere take L. Ron's reincarnation on faith?
Would you trust them?
DF
Wouldn't it be interesting if stories emerged about L. Ron Hubbard visiting the faithful from the dead? What if only a few people, say Tom Cruise and John Travolta, saw him, but swore to it? Wouldn't Scientologists everywhere take L. Ron's reincarnation on faith?
Would you trust them?
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
gof, go get a copy of The Last Temptation of Christ. I suggest the book, but the movie is pretty good.
I tried to watch the movie. I'm too much or a wuss and had to turn it off, though.
I'm aware of His "sightings" of course. He appeared to Mary and hung with a few friends but that doesn't tell us what he did for a living after the, you know, cross thing.
In response to all the professing atheists and hopefully to be in closing as well:
When a good detective searches a crime scene, he will be prepared to search diligently and thoroughly for any and all evidence. A bad detective will have drawn a conclusion before he starts and will ignore any evidence that is contrary against it. What evidence do you have that proves your point and disproves mine? If you have no conclusive evidence, then why are you so intent on ignoring what so many see besides you? There is more evidence to be found than scientific evidence alone, and a good detective will not ignore it. There is much evidence to be seen by the ordinary eye to convince many that God is real, yet you ignore it and fall back to asking for proof using scientific data. You can’t put God under a microscope and study Him. Yet He offers evidence everywhere of His existence.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Ro 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
I have foolishly wasted my time presenting evidence to those not interested in it. There are many who believe as I do, but they are much wiser than I am and are not wasting their time with you. Jesus said the following.
Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
I deserve all the rending that you have to offer, because I have continually ignored God’s leading, and stubbornly thought you would listen to reason.
GoFish, If you want to see Jesus and learn about what He is doing, you are going to have to stop turning your head and looking away from Him. You won’t find him walking around in Wal-Mart. Those who Jesus talked to and spent time with before He finally ascended to heaven, were those who had believed in Him and followed Him beforehand. He only reveals Himself to those who search for Him, and are willing to receive Him as Lord and Savior of their lives. Until you are willing to do that, you will never know Him. Many know Him today, but you are not willing to listen to their testimony about Him. God either has already revealed Himself, or will reveal Himself strong in the lives of each Christian in some way or another. Many say they know Him when they don’t follow Him. Then when tough times come they fall away and mock Him for not being there for them. However I will not make this case for all. Sometimes we simply have to stand as Job did, and say that though God slay me, still will I trust Him. Jesus had that attitude concerning His loving Father. Jesus trusted His Father with His life. All those who are sincere in committing their heart and life to God, and believe in His word, and stand on it in spite of their circumstances, will see His hand made strong in their lives. Many fall away when the tests come. The tests will separate the real child of God from those who only profess Him with their mouth. God has revealed Himself to me in ways that cannot be explained nor accepted by those who refuse to acknowledge Him in their lives. He has answered prayers in ways that defies the ordinary. God is still a miraculous God to those who believe in Him. Don’t expect God to reveal Himself to you or anyone else, who don’t even consider the evidence that He has already given.
Quote from GoFish: If he was the son of Gawd, then wasn't Gawd a little harsh when he sent his son down here for some punishment? What did Jesus do to deserve all that, forget to clean his room?
Concerning Jesus and the Father. The Father and the Son are one. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. There is no shadow between them, except for the role which they each play in relationship to man. No person can go to the Father, without first going to the Son.
You made reference that the Father was harsh with the Son. Jesus did nothing He didn’t have to do. He willingly paid the price for our sins on the cross. Consider these words of Jesus:
Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mt 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
I don’t believe that Jesus had to do what He did. As He stated, He could have called and 12,000 angels would have been immediately at His side, and ready to fight on His behalf. There would have been no power on heaven or earth that could have stopped Him from doing whatever He chose to do. The Father and Son were in complete unison in all that they did, and will continue to be throughout eternity. God loved His Son Jesus, and Jesus loved His Father. The terrible price that had to be paid for sins was truly a hard one to pay, and was not paid without a great sacrifice on the part of God. The Father did not want to see His Son suffer, and the Son surely did not want to suffer, but they mutually were willing suffer on our behalf. They each allowed love to be the deciding factor, and it was love that continued the course. God proved His love in actions and not in word only. God stuck by us when the going got tough. Men and women often give up when the least little trouble or hardship comes their way. Love is willing to sacrifice for another, and love will never fail. Jesus did what He did from a heart of love. None made Him do it.
You consider your sins as nothing but a simple tool to gain pleasure in this life. You consider God a cruel God whose demands are too hard. How many of our own children do not look at their parents in this same way? How many, if left to their own desires and plans, would find true happiness. There is no complete pleasing a child. The parents must make calls that the child doesn’t like, and that often pits the parent’s will against the child’s. Would children be happy, if they were never corrected and remained spoiled brats without learning responsibility and sacrifice? The lives of such children are such that they are never satisfied when left to be victims of their own rule. Yet how often does the sinner consider God in this light? How often is it that the sinner mocks those who allow God to rule over them as if they were missing out on all the fun. The faithful child of God has much to gain, and the rebellious sinner has much to lose in the end. If you want to know what sin is to God, then consider your sins again in light of the penalty that the Son of God paid on the sinner’s behalf. You can be delivered from the bondage and the penalty of sins by believing in God’s Son Jesus Christ, but it is your choice to make. Consider what Jesus went through so that you might receive forgiveness and be free to serve God in peace, as His child. The Father is not trying to destroy your party, He’s trying to rescue you from it, and offer you true happiness that none can ever take from you again.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I wish you all well in your lives, but not in your message. Your message may destroy many, inluding your own selves, and I hope that you will reconsider it.
When a good detective searches a crime scene, he will be prepared to search diligently and thoroughly for any and all evidence. A bad detective will have drawn a conclusion before he starts and will ignore any evidence that is contrary against it. What evidence do you have that proves your point and disproves mine? If you have no conclusive evidence, then why are you so intent on ignoring what so many see besides you? There is more evidence to be found than scientific evidence alone, and a good detective will not ignore it. There is much evidence to be seen by the ordinary eye to convince many that God is real, yet you ignore it and fall back to asking for proof using scientific data. You can’t put God under a microscope and study Him. Yet He offers evidence everywhere of His existence.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Ro 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
I have foolishly wasted my time presenting evidence to those not interested in it. There are many who believe as I do, but they are much wiser than I am and are not wasting their time with you. Jesus said the following.
Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
I deserve all the rending that you have to offer, because I have continually ignored God’s leading, and stubbornly thought you would listen to reason.
GoFish, If you want to see Jesus and learn about what He is doing, you are going to have to stop turning your head and looking away from Him. You won’t find him walking around in Wal-Mart. Those who Jesus talked to and spent time with before He finally ascended to heaven, were those who had believed in Him and followed Him beforehand. He only reveals Himself to those who search for Him, and are willing to receive Him as Lord and Savior of their lives. Until you are willing to do that, you will never know Him. Many know Him today, but you are not willing to listen to their testimony about Him. God either has already revealed Himself, or will reveal Himself strong in the lives of each Christian in some way or another. Many say they know Him when they don’t follow Him. Then when tough times come they fall away and mock Him for not being there for them. However I will not make this case for all. Sometimes we simply have to stand as Job did, and say that though God slay me, still will I trust Him. Jesus had that attitude concerning His loving Father. Jesus trusted His Father with His life. All those who are sincere in committing their heart and life to God, and believe in His word, and stand on it in spite of their circumstances, will see His hand made strong in their lives. Many fall away when the tests come. The tests will separate the real child of God from those who only profess Him with their mouth. God has revealed Himself to me in ways that cannot be explained nor accepted by those who refuse to acknowledge Him in their lives. He has answered prayers in ways that defies the ordinary. God is still a miraculous God to those who believe in Him. Don’t expect God to reveal Himself to you or anyone else, who don’t even consider the evidence that He has already given.
Quote from GoFish: If he was the son of Gawd, then wasn't Gawd a little harsh when he sent his son down here for some punishment? What did Jesus do to deserve all that, forget to clean his room?
Concerning Jesus and the Father. The Father and the Son are one. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. There is no shadow between them, except for the role which they each play in relationship to man. No person can go to the Father, without first going to the Son.
You made reference that the Father was harsh with the Son. Jesus did nothing He didn’t have to do. He willingly paid the price for our sins on the cross. Consider these words of Jesus:
Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mt 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
I don’t believe that Jesus had to do what He did. As He stated, He could have called and 12,000 angels would have been immediately at His side, and ready to fight on His behalf. There would have been no power on heaven or earth that could have stopped Him from doing whatever He chose to do. The Father and Son were in complete unison in all that they did, and will continue to be throughout eternity. God loved His Son Jesus, and Jesus loved His Father. The terrible price that had to be paid for sins was truly a hard one to pay, and was not paid without a great sacrifice on the part of God. The Father did not want to see His Son suffer, and the Son surely did not want to suffer, but they mutually were willing suffer on our behalf. They each allowed love to be the deciding factor, and it was love that continued the course. God proved His love in actions and not in word only. God stuck by us when the going got tough. Men and women often give up when the least little trouble or hardship comes their way. Love is willing to sacrifice for another, and love will never fail. Jesus did what He did from a heart of love. None made Him do it.
You consider your sins as nothing but a simple tool to gain pleasure in this life. You consider God a cruel God whose demands are too hard. How many of our own children do not look at their parents in this same way? How many, if left to their own desires and plans, would find true happiness. There is no complete pleasing a child. The parents must make calls that the child doesn’t like, and that often pits the parent’s will against the child’s. Would children be happy, if they were never corrected and remained spoiled brats without learning responsibility and sacrifice? The lives of such children are such that they are never satisfied when left to be victims of their own rule. Yet how often does the sinner consider God in this light? How often is it that the sinner mocks those who allow God to rule over them as if they were missing out on all the fun. The faithful child of God has much to gain, and the rebellious sinner has much to lose in the end. If you want to know what sin is to God, then consider your sins again in light of the penalty that the Son of God paid on the sinner’s behalf. You can be delivered from the bondage and the penalty of sins by believing in God’s Son Jesus Christ, but it is your choice to make. Consider what Jesus went through so that you might receive forgiveness and be free to serve God in peace, as His child. The Father is not trying to destroy your party, He’s trying to rescue you from it, and offer you true happiness that none can ever take from you again.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I wish you all well in your lives, but not in your message. Your message may destroy many, inluding your own selves, and I hope that you will reconsider it.
My goodness! How you do go on!! Joy, introduce your sister to Guidepost. It is a great way to show people that miracles do happen and not too pushy on religion. I have my own issues on the subject but find this little magazine to be inspirational. You can also access it on the web but subscribing to the magazine lets you have much more as far as the stories go. Check it out.
Have any of you tried to read L. Ron Hubbard? I tried "Psychocybernetics" years ago. I read ALL THE TIME and don't cull much (except Harlequin stuff). I kept reading a page and thinking, "what? What did I just read?" It's a mess. I read the whole thing and couldn't figure out one point he made. I thought it was some silly combination of science fiction and pop psychology. Then he founds a church! It's like the church of the goofy people.
quote:Originally posted by what4:
GoFish, If you want to see Jesus and learn about what He is doing, you are going to have to stop turning your head and looking away from Him.
Well, what IS his address, then? "He Lives!" you know. I want his address.
quote:Many say they know Him when they don’t follow Him. Then when tough times come they fall away and mock Him for not being there for them.
Or go abuse a child, commit murder or steal money from the pulpit. When you folks fall, you sure fall hard.
quote:Concerning Jesus and the Father. The Father and the Son are one. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. There is no shadow between them, except for the role which they each play in relationship to man. No person can go to the Father, without first going to the Son.
Okay, read that again out loud to yourself and you tell me how to make sense of that. I gave up long ago. God sent his only begotten son but the son was himself so he actually sent himself so that means he wasn't a son, but was god himself so he lied when he said he was the son of god.
I have a headache.
quote:The Father is not trying to destroy your party, He’s trying to rescue you from it, and offer you true happiness that none can ever take from you again.
Let's see: I make lot's of money, I'm good looking, have a beautiful wife, beautiful sons, am experiencing life and all it's pleasures and doing my dangdest to leave it in better shape for my kids. Except for enjoying my future grandkids, I've done everything in my life that I've wanted to do so I'll die happy.
To top it all off, I can cuss, enjoy a cigar, shot of tequila, a beer or ten and not feel guilty! In short, there may be many who are AS happy but no one in the world who could possibly be MORE happy than I.
Jesus wants to rescue me from that? Thanks but no thanks!
It's not "like" a church for goofy people. It IS a church for goofy people.
DF
DF
gofish,
I would only remind you of what you already know. never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
DF
I would only remind you of what you already know. never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
DF
quote:It's not "like" a church for goofy people. It IS a church for goofy people.
You're right about that. But I'm a little embarrassed that those idiots understood what he was saying and I didn't.
Who's saying they really understood it? Who's saying L. Bob Dullard understood what he was writing?
it's probably gobbledy****, from start to finish.
DF
it's probably gobbledy****, from start to finish.
DF
hahahaha the censored g00k.
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by Light:
My goodness! How you do go on!! Joy, introduce your sister to Guidepost. It is a great way to show people that miracles do happen and not too pushy on religion. I have my own issues on the subject but find this little magazine to be inspirational. You can also access it on the web but subscribing to the magazine lets you have much more as far as the stories go. Check it out.
Hey, I backed out of this one some time back, Light.
I'm not casting my pearls before swine! HAHA! Just thought of that! I'm KIDDING already.I enjoy discussing issues with GoFish and DeepFat, but spiritually we are on opposite ends of the universe. We just agree to disagree and move on.
Because I'm a Christian and I like you people, it saddens me that some of you don't believe and I fear for your soul. I just think that belief or non-belief cannot be forced.
what4, I am assuming that your heart is in the right place but your words are falling on deaf ears. They won't hear until they open spiritual ears to hear. At this point in their life, they done ripped out the eardrum, stomped on the hearing aid and installed an intellectual ego the size of Manhattan. hee, hee
Hey, y'all asked for that one. I mean, "tell us what he did for a living after the, you know, cross thing"? The very idea! Let's see. After defeating death and hell, he ASCENDED TO HEAVEN, but you knew that already, GoFish.
Joy wrote:
both gofish and I came from christianity to where we are today. For years I begged god to show himself to me, to make himself known. Nothing. No one home.
As for my intellectual ego (huh?), it is you who tells me I should believe in a man in the sky who loves me, but will send me to hell for using my human intelligence to ask for proof of his existence. It is you who tells me that your version of the sky man who needs money is correct to the exclusion of all other points of view. You understand the Prime Mover of the Universe. You can see beyond the grave. You ask me to believe that a man who was crucified to death came alive, then conveniently rose into the sky.
Why would he do that? Seems if he was making a point by being resurrected, he's strut downtown and show himself off. "Crucify this" or something. But no.
Joy, I luv ya, but before you start throwing the stone of ego, dig yourself, hon.
DF
quote:what4, I am assuming that your heart is in the right place but your words are falling on deaf ears. They won't hear until they open spiritual ears to hear. At this point in their life, they done ripped out the eardrum, stomped on the hearing aid and installed an intellectual ego the size of Manhattan. hee, hee
both gofish and I came from christianity to where we are today. For years I begged god to show himself to me, to make himself known. Nothing. No one home.
As for my intellectual ego (huh?), it is you who tells me I should believe in a man in the sky who loves me, but will send me to hell for using my human intelligence to ask for proof of his existence. It is you who tells me that your version of the sky man who needs money is correct to the exclusion of all other points of view. You understand the Prime Mover of the Universe. You can see beyond the grave. You ask me to believe that a man who was crucified to death came alive, then conveniently rose into the sky.
Why would he do that? Seems if he was making a point by being resurrected, he's strut downtown and show himself off. "Crucify this" or something. But no.
Joy, I luv ya, but before you start throwing the stone of ego, dig yourself, hon.
DF
DF, now don't be getting your feathers ruffled on me. You give me a hard time too, you know? I'm just kidding with y'all. Yes, my ego needs deflating from time to time as well, as long as it's good-naturedly.
In answer to that take on what I ask you to believe. Dude, that's not what "I" believe. Why would I ask you to?
1. God doesn't send you to Hell because you asked for proof. He made it as simple as "whosoever believes in Him shall be saved"...it doesn't get any easier than that. It's your own refusal to believe that sends you to Hell. "It's God's will that all would be saved".
2. God doesn't need your money. He owns it all anyway. It's a way for you to know Him. You can't out-give God.
3. He came, died, rose again & went back to Heaven to (among other things) pay for our sins, to be our intercessor and so that the Spirit of God could come and live in the hearts of all those who believe.
4. Jesus is a servant leader. Strut? Eww, that's not my Jesus, thank God.
I'm not trying to convince you, just answering your post. No harm, no foul.
In answer to that take on what I ask you to believe. Dude, that's not what "I" believe. Why would I ask you to?
1. God doesn't send you to Hell because you asked for proof. He made it as simple as "whosoever believes in Him shall be saved"...it doesn't get any easier than that. It's your own refusal to believe that sends you to Hell. "It's God's will that all would be saved".
2. God doesn't need your money. He owns it all anyway. It's a way for you to know Him. You can't out-give God.
3. He came, died, rose again & went back to Heaven to (among other things) pay for our sins, to be our intercessor and so that the Spirit of God could come and live in the hearts of all those who believe.
4. Jesus is a servant leader. Strut? Eww, that's not my Jesus, thank God.
I'm not trying to convince you, just answering your post. No harm, no foul.
DF, I admire you so much more now that I know you tried to reach out to God. If you found nothing, saw nothing, I don't know why because I'm not He. You are truly a person of exceptional intellect, and I believe a kind heart, but did you have anything against anyone the times you prayed? Please don't give up. Please...
Y'all:
QUOTE] God doesn't need your money [/QUOTE] Tell that to his collectors, the preachers.
I didn't give up. I kept moving on. Study an objective history of god sometime. Read it with an open mind.
DF
Of course he doesn't. There is no hell, and there's very little reason to believe a god sends anyone anywhere.quote:God doesn't send you to Hell because you asked for proof.
QUOTE] God doesn't need your money [/QUOTE] Tell that to his collectors, the preachers.
Jesus is your servant? Wow.quote:Jesus is a servant leader
I didn't give up. I kept moving on. Study an objective history of god sometime. Read it with an open mind.
DF
DF, I'm sorry if I went too far in my ribbing in my post to Light. I think I have upset you. My last post was to reply to what you thought I believed.
I can't do anything about those that claim to be Christians when their lives do not reflect Christ. I don't answer for them; I'm not them. I only know what God has meant to me personally and I wouldn't trade that for anything this world has to offer me.
I can't do anything about those that claim to be Christians when their lives do not reflect Christ. I don't answer for them; I'm not them. I only know what God has meant to me personally and I wouldn't trade that for anything this world has to offer me.
ah, joy, I'm ok.
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by what4:
If I have learned nothing else, I’ve learned that I’m nothing and a miserable failure apart from God.
Man, you're being a little harsh on yourself, ain't ye?
Me? I'm about as happy, giving, successful, lucky, and getting more out of life than I ever dreamed without beating myself up like that. I owe all of that to one person and one person only: Me, myself and I (okay, that's three people but you get the idea).I'm glad that all that mumbo-jumbo works for you but no thanks.
I assure you that if you think you are as happy as you could be without God in your life you are wrong. There is a peace that comes from God that you are missing out on. There is an emptiness that you are trying to fill by being whatever your version of successful is. That emptiness can be filled by God. Everything good comes from God. Maybe this is His time and place to make a connection with you and show you how he can bless you beyond what you can do for yourself.
I take it you have no children. If you had ever seen a baby born into this world you would know that there is no way that could happen without divine intervention. When I look at my children growing up in this world I pray to a God that is looking after them and when my grand-parents pass I pray they go to live with a loving creator. If life is all about who has the biggest boat and immediate pleasure then thats what would be depressing to me. Isnt that an empty way to live?
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by what4:
GoFish, If you want to see Jesus and learn about what He is doing, you are going to have to stop turning your head and looking away from Him.
Well, what IS his address, then? "He Lives!" you know. I want his address.quote:Many say they know Him when they don’t follow Him. Then when tough times come they fall away and mock Him for not being there for them.
Or go abuse a child, commit murder or steal money from the pulpit. When you folks fall, you sure fall hard.quote:Concerning Jesus and the Father. The Father and the Son are one. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. There is no shadow between them, except for the role which they each play in relationship to man. No person can go to the Father, without first going to the Son.
Okay, read that again out loud to yourself and you tell me how to make sense of that. I gave up long ago. God sent his only begotten son but the son was himself so he actually sent himself so that means he wasn't a son, but was god himself so he lied when he said he was the son of god.
I have a headache.quote:The Father is not trying to destroy your party, He’s trying to rescue you from it, and offer you true happiness that none can ever take from you again.
Let's see: I make lot's of money, I'm good looking, have a beautiful wife, beautiful sons, am experiencing life and all it's pleasures and doing my dangdest to leave it in better shape for my kids. Except for enjoying my future grandkids, I've done everything in my life that I've wanted to do so I'll die happy.
To top it all off, I can cuss, enjoy a cigar, shot of tequila, a beer or ten and not feel guilty! In short, there may be many who are AS happy but no one in the world who could possibly be MORE happy than I.
Jesus wants to rescue me from that? Thanks but no thanks!
OK. lets examine this. I make lots of money also. But do you do good with your money? Does it make you happy honestly to buy more and more and more STUFF. I have a nice house and car, kids have clothes and medical etc. But you want to know what makes the kids happiest at Christmas? The angel tree. That is a memory they tell me at 10 and 7 that they love and they WANT to do. That is a satisfaction that comes from doing for others as God would want. I assume it is not an altruistic good but makes us all happy just the same.
I am attractive but what does that do? That doesnt make people Happy. I mean look at some of the celebrity lives and such beautiful people live in such pain and sadness. Does beauty undo any of lifes pain like a memory of a molested child or a abused woman. No. only God and his love can heal that.
I have two gorgeous children 10 and 7 girl and a boy.......honor roll students - son is very athletic. But without God that isnt possible. The things taught to us in the Bible are things that WILL make us happy if we follow them. Bringing your child up beleiving in the Bible only makes them better people. If my children grow up beleiving that all there is in this world is what is here... worldly pleasure.....just to go out and seize the day with no thought for what God has in plan for them, then they will miss out on His blessings and I do not want that. When I am not around and my daughter has to make a decision for herself or she is in pain I want her to have God to turn to to make those decisions and I KNOW she will be a happier, healthier person for it.
What am I "missing out on"???? Well, saying I can cuss is really not an accomplishment. I mean I do cuss from time to time we are all human but is that really something you want to do. I mean any idiot can cuss..and i am not saying you are an idiot but - so what. I think it is more appealing to speak intelligently with a man or woman who can make a point, carry on a conversation and have fun without cussing. I am guilty of it too but I know that I look trashy when I come out with some big word........and do not do it in front of the kids. I never heard my mother cuss growing up and I have nothing but respect for her being able to have so much CLASS and self control. Again something I struggle with.
As far as drinking........well, that is a personal issue that is between each person, different religion and God. I know different religions feel differently about drinking. BUT, if the Bible tells us not to get drunk look at the reasons why. Is there ANYONE on this forum or in this world that can say they have not made a bad desision while drunk? No of course not. Now, to different degrees. Some decisions will last one day but some will last a lifetime. If you got drunk and slept with ole Suzy one night maybe nothing happened to you but if your son drinks and learned its OK from his father then maybe his might not turn out so well, maybe you causing that child to stumble by your example, leads to an unwanted pregnancy, DUI, HIV, or death. God loves us as we do our children and he only wants whats best for us. We tell our children not to play in the street and they get mad and say well so and so is doing it and I havent saw any cars coming and dont understand why. But We have lived and experienced and want whats best so thats why we make the rules. God has done the same. He is the beginning and the end. He knows what is best for us and can see the end. He wants to make life less painful and he wants us to be happy on this earth and beyond................
The point to all of this is ..............this life is short. Its just a blink of an eye. Eternity is just that.........Eternity..........I would hate to carry the burden on my heart with me for ever and ever that because I didnt bring my children up believing in God that I could have prevented any of their pain or caused them not be in his favor. Just think about this. If you live as if there is a God then in the end just for agruement sake there was not a Heaven or Hell then what have you really missed out on...........nothing important.
quote:Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
Just think about this. If you live as if there is a God then in the end just for agruement sake there was not a Heaven or Hell then what have you really missed out on...........nothing important.
My point was not to extol my good looks, material worth and ability to cuss and drink with applomb. My point is that I lead a very "blessed" life and have achieved true happiness through hard work, intelligent (and some stupid) choices and moral values - not because of some man who lives in the clouds.
I am teaching my kids that almost everything in life is good in moderation. I don't cuss unnecessarily, I drink a beer or two a day and my kids have never, ever seem me drunk. I display mad affection for my wife and lead by example and adhere to a very strict moral code.
Again, with no help from a spook in the sky or the threat of eternal burning.
And I have wasted almost not time hanging out with insurance salesmen worshiping in a multi-million dollar mansions built by white guys looking to climb the religious/political ladder to reach material success - all in the name of some god who is a figment of the imagination.
And if a Creator does exist? That's cool. I look forward to meeting him.
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
Just think about this. If you live as if there is a God then in the end just for agruement sake there was not a Heaven or Hell then what have you really missed out on...........nothing important.
My point was not to extol my good looks, material worth and ability to cuss and drink with applomb. My point is that I lead a very "blessed" life and have achieved true happiness through hard work, intelligent (and some stupid) choices and moral values - not because of some man who lives in the clouds.
I am teaching my kids that almost everything in life is good in moderation. I don't cuss unnecessarily, I drink a beer or two a day and my kids have never, ever seem me drunk. I display mad affection for my wife and lead by example and adhere to a very strict moral code.
Again, with no help from a spook in the sky or the threat of eternal burning.
And I have wasted almost not time hanging out with insurance salesmen worshiping in a multi-million dollar mansions built by white guys looking to climb the religious/political ladder to reach material success - all in the name of some god who is a figment of the imagination.
And if a Creator does exist? That's cool. I look forward to meeting him.
I appreciate your honesty and open discussion. Even though we dont agree I think that you are living a good life because you have a deep desire to want peace and goodness. I think - just in my opinion now - but i think you may just read, hear or learn something one day that changes your mind. You are not an evil person, maybe you have just had a bad experience. Cross Point Church is so laid back, no pressure for giving.....that is between you and God. The preachers house is prob smaller than mine and different races come together because they care about each other and want to show graditude. It just sounds like from your posts you have walked in the wrong BUILDING to worship and never found a church FAMILY. Its very easy to get put off by that and thats why the devil is seen everywhere.....even in a church BUILDING. Faith that there is a God comes from studying the Bible and witnessing the miricales that happen in TRUE beleivers lives. I know that I work VERY hard to provide for my family. But my health and childrens health that allows me to go to work is a gift. I want to show graditude because I could not do it on my own without Him blessing me everyday. Thank you for allowing me to address this with you. Dont stop questioning............
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bluesman (& all), my sister has been and is asking those questions right now (lost her huband last November) and it's killing me. I don't know how to reach her. She accepted Christ as a child but because of our upbringing turned away from God. She has sought medical and psychological help in all forms, which kept her from killing herself, but she is so depressed and has made so many reckless decisions. I am scared for her and her three children (ages 16, 13, & 5).
How do you help someone see that where doctors and medicine fail, God is able? She was ticked off at God, which is understandable, but now she says she is too tired to be mad at anybody, including God. I've told her my experiences of God pulling me from the pit, but I feel the wall go up if I say anything about God.
It is frustrating and heart-breaking when you know the road to peace and healing but you cannot show someone that you love the power that is right there.
I know where God is when it hurts...
He hurts when I hurt, just like any good parent would.
He holds me up when I'm too weak to go on.
He rocks me to sleep when none will come.
He places joy and peace in my heart amidst sorrow.
He healed my pain and my scars and filled up the gaps in my soul with his Spirit to make me whole. Thank you, Lord.
He listens as I pour out my heart and gives me more in return than I could ever ask or imagine.
And one day, He will wipe away every tear and there will be no more pain, no more innocent lives ripped apart by war or famine or crime. Come, Lord Jesus.
Joy--- I understand how your sister feels. I lost my husband in 2004. I to, was very mad at god.
But I found without god I really did feel empty so I prayed all the time for god to give me the strenght to make it through this and I did.
Give her time she to will find her way back to god. Just be there for her and pray for her.
God will be there for you, when no one else is.
quote:If you had ever seen a baby born into this world you would know that there is no way that could happen without divine intervention.
Please. We know how children come about. All species have children, from amoebas to us. they are not miracles.
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:If you had ever seen a baby born into this world you would know that there is no way that could happen without divine intervention.
Please. We know how children come about. All species have children, from amoebas to us. they are not miracles.
DF
I pray you dont have children
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS PEOPLE CAN QUESTION GOD AND HIS TEACHING BECAUSE THEY SAY THAT THERE IS NO PROOF. LOOK AT IT THIS WAY , THERE IS NO OTHER CASE OTHER THAN GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH AND MAN. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ELSE BUT THAT ,WE DIDN'T COME FROM ANOTHER PLANET, AND YES WE HAVE EVOLVED BUT NOT FROM MONKEYS (CASE BEING WE ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME BUILD OR HAVE THE SAME FEATURES AS OUR ANCESTORS SO WE EVOLVE ALL THE TIME. IF WE DID COME FROM MONKEYS WHY DID IT STOP?) GIVE ME ONE CASE WHERE IT STATES MAN EVOLVED FROM . ANYTHING ??? AND IF SO WHEN DID THAT CREATURE FIRST STEP FOOT HERE WHERE DID THEY COME FROM. IT IS VERY SIMPLE THERE IS A GOD IN HEAVEN AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAN THAT'S YOU BUT GIVE ME SOME REASON WHY YOU DON'T BELIEVE BESIDE SOME CHURCH YOU GOT A BAD EXPERIENCE FROM.
P.S SORRY FOR THE CAPS STARTED TYPING DIDN'T WANT TO START OVER.
P.S SORRY FOR THE CAPS STARTED TYPING DIDN'T WANT TO START OVER.
quote:Originally posted by something2say:
WE DIDN'T COME FROM ANOTHER PLANET, AND YES WE HAVE EVOLVED BUT NOT FROM MONKEYS (CASE BEING WE ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME BUILD OR HAVE THE SAME FEATURES AS OUR ANCESTORS SO WE EVOLVE ALL THE TIME. IF WE DID COME FROM MONKEYS WHY DID IT STOP?) GIVE ME ONE CASE WHERE IT STATES MAN EVOLVED FROM . ANYTHING ??? AND IF SO WHEN DID THAT CREATURE FIRST STEP FOOT HERE WHERE DID THEY COME FROM.
You are a good example of why the United States lags behind other countries in math and science.
We didn't evolve from monkeys. No one but religious fundies say that. Evolution simply states that humans and apes (monkeys) have a common ancestor and has abundant proof of that.
Almost all animals have the "same features." Haven't you wondered why all animals, even fish, have two eyes, a nose, a tongue, a rectum, sexual organs all in about the same place? Science explains that this is because - if you go back far enough - we all share a common ancestor. Yep, you and your dog are cousins.
Why did it stop? Evolution has never "stopped" is just happens at such a slow pace that you don't notice it. Written human history goes back about 5000 years. About the only change we have noted is that humans have gotten a couple of inches taller since that time. That is called evolution. Now imagine a few tens-of-thousands of years and you'll get an idea of how very small changes end up as noticeable differences given enough time.
The rest of your tirade is so very ignorant that I can't really address it. Evolution includes some very simple concepts are taught in the 6th grade.
Your kind of utter ignorance of the world around you is one very big reason I became an atheist. There was no "Adam and Eve." There was no worldwide flood (along with a re-introduction of humans to planet earth). If those events are not true, then the whole bible collapses. If the bible collapses, so does Christianity. Thus, I am not (nor will I ever be) a Christian.
Science is humanity's salvation (science is actually working on "eternal life" as we speak!). Not some silly book full if fables.
There is a difference between religion and Christianity...I believe that.
A friend told me once that there are going to be a lot of drunks in heaven and a lot of preachers in hell...I believe that, too.
A friend told me once that there are going to be a lot of drunks in heaven and a lot of preachers in hell...I believe that, too.
Christianity is a religion. It is not a bowling club nor a baseball team.
Christianity has it's gods, prophets, laws, holy texts, clergy, churches, and all the stuff religions have.
Can't say I blame you for wanting to distance yourself from the institution of religion, but if you're a christian, you're religious.
DF
Christianity has it's gods, prophets, laws, holy texts, clergy, churches, and all the stuff religions have.
Can't say I blame you for wanting to distance yourself from the institution of religion, but if you're a christian, you're religious.
DF
quote:Originally posted by ~*~Freebird~*~:quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bluesman (& all), my sister has been and is asking those questions right now (lost her huband last November) and it's killing me. I don't know how to reach her. She accepted Christ as a child but because of our upbringing turned away from God. She has sought medical and psychological help in all forms, which kept her from killing herself, but she is so depressed and has made so many reckless decisions. I am scared for her and her three children (ages 16, 13, & 5).
How do you help someone see that where doctors and medicine fail, God is able? She was ticked off at God, which is understandable, but now she says she is too tired to be mad at anybody, including God. I've told her my experiences of God pulling me from the pit, but I feel the wall go up if I say anything about God.
It is frustrating and heart-breaking when you know the road to peace and healing but you cannot show someone that you love the power that is right there.
I know where God is when it hurts...
He hurts when I hurt, just like any good parent would.
He holds me up when I'm too weak to go on.
He rocks me to sleep when none will come.
He places joy and peace in my heart amidst sorrow.
He healed my pain and my scars and filled up the gaps in my soul with his Spirit to make me whole. Thank you, Lord.
He listens as I pour out my heart and gives me more in return than I could ever ask or imagine.
And one day, He will wipe away every tear and there will be no more pain, no more innocent lives ripped apart by war or famine or crime. Come, Lord Jesus.
Joy--- I understand how your sister feels. I lost my husband in 2004. I to, was very mad at god.
But I found without god I really did feel empty so I prayed all the time for god to give me the strenghth to make it through this and I did.
Give her time she to will find her way back to god. Just be there for her and pray for her.
God will be there for you, when no one else is.
Thank you, Freebird. I will do that. You know, this forum is just really awesome sometimes.
Can you handle the thought that sometimes there is nobody there for you?
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by something2say:
WE DIDN'T COME FROM ANOTHER PLANET, AND YES WE HAVE EVOLVED BUT NOT FROM MONKEYS (CASE BEING WE ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME BUILD OR HAVE THE SAME FEATURES AS OUR ANCESTORS SO WE EVOLVE ALL THE TIME. IF WE DID COME FROM MONKEYS WHY DID IT STOP?) GIVE ME ONE CASE WHERE IT STATES MAN EVOLVED FROM . ANYTHING ??? AND IF SO WHEN DID THAT CREATURE FIRST STEP FOOT HERE WHERE DID THEY COME FROM.
You are a good example of why the United States lags behind other countries in math and science.
We didn't evolve from monkeys. No one but religious fundies say that. Evolution simply states that humans and apes (monkeys) have a common ancestor and has abundant proof of that.
Almost all animals have the "same features." Haven't you wondered why all animals, even fish, have two eyes, a nose, a tongue, a rectum, sexual organs all in about the same place? Science explains that this is because - if you go back far enough - we all share a common ancestor. Yep, you and your dog are cousins.
Why did it stop? Evolution has never "stopped" is just happens at such a slow pace that you don't notice it. Written human history goes back about 5000 years. About the only change we have noted is that humans have gotten a couple of inches taller since that time. That is called evolution. Now imagine a few tens-of-thousands of years and you'll get an idea of how very small changes end up as noticeable differences given enough time.
The rest of your tirade is so very ignorant that I can't really address it. Evolution includes some very simple concepts are taught in the 6th grade.
Your kind of utter ignorance of the world around you is one very big reason I became an atheist. There was no "Adam and Eve." There was no worldwide flood (along with a re-introduction of humans to planet earth). If those events are not true, then the whole bible collapses. If the bible collapses, so does Christianity. Thus, I am not (nor will I ever be) a Christian.
Science is humanity's salvation (science is actually working on "eternal life" as we speak!). Not some silly book full if fables.
Okay GF, here we go again. Answer me this. If we are all products of "evolution", then how did the universe begin? Where did it come from? There is no scientific law that allows something to evolve from nothing. If there was nothing in the universe to begin with, then common sense and science and math skills say that nothing could happen to cause anything to appear. Please enlighten me on this.
quote:Originally posted by something2say:
WE DIDN'T COME FROM ANOTHER PLANET, AND YES WE HAVE EVOLVED BUT NOT FROM MONKEYS (CASE BEING WE ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME BUILD OR HAVE THE SAME FEATURES AS OUR ANCESTORS SO WE EVOLVE ALL THE TIME. IF WE DID COME FROM MONKEYS WHY DID IT STOP?) GIVE ME ONE CASE WHERE IT STATES MAN EVOLVED FROM . ANYTHING ??? AND IF SO WHEN DID THAT CREATURE FIRST STEP FOOT HERE WHERE DID THEY COME FROM.
You are a good example of why the United States lags behind other countries in math and science.
We didn't evolve from monkeys. No one but religious fundies say that. Evolution simply states that humans and apes (monkeys) have a common ancestor and has abundant proof of that.
Almost all animals have the "same features." Haven't you wondered why all animals, even fish, have two eyes, a nose, a tongue, a rectum, sexual organs all in about the same place? Science explains that this is because - if you go back far enough - we all share a common ancestor. Yep, you and your dog are cousins.
Why did it stop? Evolution has never "stopped" is just happens at such a slow pace that you don't notice it. Written human history goes back about 5000 years. About the only change we have noted is that humans have gotten a couple of inches taller since that time. That is called evolution. Now imagine a few tens-of-thousands of years and you'll get an idea of how very small changes end up as noticeable differences given enough time.
The rest of your tirade is so very ignorant that I can't really address it. Evolution includes some very simple concepts are taught in the 6th grade.
Your kind of utter ignorance of the world around you is one very big reason I became an atheist. There was no "Adam and Eve." There was no worldwide flood (along with a re-introduction of humans to planet earth). If those events are not true, then the whole bible collapses. If the bible collapses, so does Christianity. Thus, I am not (nor will I ever be) a Christian.
Science is humanity's salvation (science is actually working on "eternal life" as we speak!). Not some silly book full if fables.
quote:Posted 26 July 2007 01:51 AM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by something2say:
WE DIDN'T COME FROM ANOTHER PLANET, AND YES WE HAVE EVOLVED BUT NOT FROM MONKEYS (CASE BEING WE ARE NOT EVEN THE SAME BUILD OR HAVE THE SAME FEATURES AS OUR ANCESTORS SO WE EVOLVE ALL THE TIME. IF WE DID COME FROM MONKEYS WHY DID IT STOP?) GIVE ME ONE CASE WHERE IT STATES MAN EVOLVED FROM . ANYTHING ??? AND IF SO WHEN DID THAT CREATURE FIRST STEP FOOT HERE WHERE DID THEY COME FROM.
You are a good example of why the United States lags behind other countries in math and science.
We didn't evolve from monkeys. No one but religious fundies say that. Evolution simply states that humans and apes (monkeys) have a common ancestor and has abundant proof of that.
Almost all animals have the "same features." Haven't you wondered why all animals, even fish, have two eyes, a nose, a tongue, a rectum, sexual organs all in about the same place? Science explains that this is because - if you go back far enough - we all share a common ancestor. Yep, you and your dog are cousins.
Why did it stop? Evolution has never "stopped" is just happens at such a slow pace that you don't notice it. Written human history goes back about 5000 years. About the only change we have noted is that humans have gotten a couple of inches taller since that time. That is called evolution. Now imagine a few tens-of-thousands of years and you'll get an idea of how very small changes end up as noticeable differences given enough time.
The rest of your tirade is so very ignorant that I can't really address it. Evolution includes some very simple concepts are taught in the 6th grade.
Your kind of utter ignorance of the world around you is one very big reason I became an atheist. There was no "Adam and Eve." There was no worldwide flood (along with a re-introduction of humans to planet earth). If those events are not true, then the whole bible collapses. If the bible collapses, so does Christianity. Thus, I am not (nor will I ever be) a Christian.
Science is humanity's salvation (science is actually working on "eternal life" as we speak!). Not some silly book full if fables.
Okay GF, here we go again. Answer me this. If we are all products of "evolution", then how did the universe begin? Where did it come from? There is no scientific law that allows something to evolve from nothing. If there was nothing in the universe to begin with, then common sense and science and math skills say that nothing could happen to cause anything to appear. Please enlighten me on this.
Eventus Stultorum Magister
GF THATS THE SAME QUESTION I ASK I DIDN'T QOUTE ANYTHING JUST ASKED YOU QUESTION AND YES I MAYBE RELATED TO MY DOG BUT YOU RELATED TO MY ***HOLE.