Gun Laws...

Bud, I almost get the feeling from your post that you still don't believe me. Not that it matters whether you do or don't, but I don't lie, and I am not making this up. A LOT of friends and family used to come over to our shooting range with an assortment of guns. We would set up targets and be out there all day. There were few safe places to shoot even back then so every few days it seemed, someone would show up. And I'm proud to say that I was a pretty darned good shot, especially when we were shooting .38 pistols. Mine was a snub nose, and even when competing against someone with a long barrel, I usually could out shoot them.

And I am even more proud of the fact that I have never shot a living creature. I DID go pheasant hunting with a friend one time, but that day I brought a camera rather than a gun. And while I got quite a few good "shots" that day, my friend did not. That's just the way I like it.

==========================================================================

Lesson number one on't mess with O No !!

Lesson number two: O No! is a veterinarian.

Lesson three : Did I mention , don't mess with O No !!!!!!!!!!!

Veteranarian?

Or did you mean vegetarian?

I'm neither actually.  I like a good cheeseburger as much as the next person. And when my late husband brought home a deer, I was more than happy to cook and eat the venison. I just can't bring myself to shoot an animal.

I will say though, that my meat eating habits have changed. I eat just as much as ever, but it has to be either grass fed beef or bison, home grown pork or chicken (I have great friends and neighbors), or as I said before, wild game. No hormones. No pink slime. No other chemicals. If I have sausage or bacon, it too is homegrown and home made.

I'm getting healthier in my old age.

O No.

Sounds like you’ve got a nice place. Good shootin’!

I do believe you. What would it take to convince you? I am glad to hear you find pleasure in legitimate firearm recreation. I’m sorry if I came across anything but honest as you appear to me.

And as honest as I could I apologized for my assumption you were mistaken about the firearm you shot.

Doesn’t bother me that you don’t hunt anymore that the fact I am should bother you. The enjoyment of firearms, like archery, doesn’t require that you be a hunter. Check the NRA website and that becomes clear quick. And if it means anything, I shoot more wildlife with a camera than with a gun. If I could figure out to do it, I’d post a couple of wildlife pics...would you prefer rabbit, coyote, bobcat, turkey, beaver, or deer feeding, in the snow, or big bucks posing?

But that has nothing to do with the last question I asked you in an earlier post which now that I know you have friends who are also firearms enthusiasts, has even greater meaning...so I’ll ask it again.

"O No!, I’m glad you enjoyed your experience. Just like many folks on this forum and millions nationwide do too. But if one psycho misuses the gun, as I understand it you would be in favor of banning the gun from everyone else rather than trying to weed out the psycho first.

"Why is that?"

Oh No! sez "

I'm neither actually. I like a good cheeseburger as much as the next person. And when my late husband brought home a deer, I was more than happy to cook and eat the venison. I just can't bring myself to shoot an animal.

I will say though, that my meat eating habits have changed. I eat just as much as ever, but it has to be either grass fed beef or bison, home grown pork or chicken (I have great friends and neighbors), or as I said before, wild game. No hormones. No pink slime. No other chemicals. If I have sausage or bacon, it too is homegrown and home made.

I'm getting healthier in my old age."

I knew you had some redeeming qualities that I could admire...haha....we're not all that different. BTW, I love bison burgers, wish we could get  more of it around here.

LOL @ Weed.

"So just to be clear everyone here in this discussion is for a certain amount of gun laws, or government control, right?" ~ Jank

I’m not opposed to governmental...make that judicial...oversight over our Bill of Rights. Happens all the time with the 4^th and 5^th Amendments. If the Amendments were written perfect the first time, they wouldn’t need so much fine tuning would they. Like "militia" may seem archaic, but the rights of the people still exists and that’s what the SCOTUS has reaffirmed time after time.

I’m waiting for the existing governmental control to catch up with technology so we can have less, rather than more or more of the same, governmental control. For instance, the 1968 GCA is more of an annoyance to legitimate gun owners than it is a deterrence to criminal activity. Heck, states with the strictest gun control have the highest crime rate. Go figure. I mean why not go after the bad guys? When SC was debating CWPs, opponents including the FOP, swore that it would be like the O. K. Corral every day. But then the stats came on Florida’s CWP’s and lo and behold, the violent crime rate actually dropped. And SC became a CWP state. Funny thing, Alabama and SC don’t honor each others permits. What’s up with that?

I know I may be accused by some members of the NRA of going over to the dark side, but I do believe that it is entirely possible to do a thorough background check as is done with Class III applications and thereby lessening the possibility of abuse of our Second Amendment rights.

Here’s my suggestion...a firearms and ammunition purchase card issued upon approval of a thorough background check based upon application. With such a card, a person wishing to purchase a firearm or ammunition only needs to present it to a dealer in any state who scans it. There can be ways to ensure the one presenting the card is in fact the applicant...eye scans, DNA, goodness knows what technological means lie ahead. There could also be instant feedback to the owner to inquire if indeed he is making a transaction. There being no changes in an applicant’s status, the sale is transacted. If by internet, a password may be used much like a PIN number to confirm identification of the applicant. There would be no further need to fill out a 4473. Sales between private individuals could be transacted the same way.

We have the technology to do that tomorrow if we want to.

But hey! I also support the Patriot Act. If knowing my life’s history will prevent someone else from blowing up a building, I’m open. I doubt the government is going to find out something about me in a security check they don’t already know. My military clearance took care of that long ago.

Let’s just do whatever’s necessary to get the bad guys off the street so that the liberals can have fun with guns without being ashamed. Except you O No. You are the liberal poster child of pleasure. No offense intended.

Thanks, Teyates.

Bud, if I thought we COULD weed out the crazies I would be all for it, but I just don't see how we could do it. Even this latest nut in Colorado seemed like a quiet, intelligent person to those who knew him. If they start clamping down on potentially crazy people, our rights would be in more danger. Can you imagine how they would go about it? Pick people at random and make them undergo a psych evaluation? Ask people to report on their friends? Make everyone fill out a questionaire every year? How?

The trouble with more thorough background checks is that a lot of crazies and criminals use stolen or illegally obtained weapons. It might prevent SOME of the tragic shootings, but certainly not all of them.

O No,

You Bambi Burger eatin’ thang you..

I don’t know if you read the link I posted on the 4473 regarding background checks but in case you didn’t, those questions regarding folks with mental defects are already being asked, but because the courts block releasing medical records, unless the psycho wants to admit he’s spent time in a mental hospital, he can lie unhindered. As they have obviously done in the past. Heck, Slingblade could do it.

Can I imagine how they would do it? Yep. By requiring the courts to release medical mental evaluation data anytime a person makes an application for a firearm’s purchase. How does that threaten your rights?

Those doing background checks already have our criminal history. Why not mental if it is appropriate to the investigation.

The alternative is to delete question 11 [f] from the 4473 altogether because it has proven to be both meaningless and unenforceable.

"The trouble with more thorough background checks is that a lot of crazies and criminals use stolen or illegally obtained weapons. It might prevent SOME of the tragic shootings, but certainly not all of them." ~ O No!

BINGO!  First, given that to be the case, why would you want to disarm your friends...like your buddy with the AK?  What's that going to prove?

And secondly, as it is right now, the law regarding mentally defective is totally ineffective. Wouldn’t SOME preferable to none?

I don't have an answer, Bud. Banning fully automatic weapons would probably prevent some crazies from using them, and more thorough background checks would probably prevent some too. I don't think anyone could answer the question of which would be more effective unless they enacted one method for ten years, followed by the other method for another ten years, and then compare the death tolls.

But if they took my friend's AK, it would probably be no big deal to him. He only shoots for fun. If they subjected him to a thorough psych evaluation it wouldn't bother him because he would pass it.

But the survivalists in Oregon who have whole ****nals stashed away in the woods would neither give up their guns, nor submit to the psych eval because I'm sure most if not all of their stashed weapons are unregistered anyway.

And Interventor had a good point earlier in the thread. If a person is crazy enough and determined to kill a lot of people, there are other ways to do it. Should they make it mandatory that a person have a psych eval before buying fertilizer? And even then, they'd steal it.

I see it as a problem with no clear solution. No matter what they do or don't do, somebody loses.

Just so you know, O No.

There have been only one, maybe two, documented cases of a Class III owner using his Class III weapon in the commission of a violent crime. These two against lord knows how many registered Class III owners and firearms.

I used your friend for example.  But he is one of many.  Before you are too quick to dismiss him, ask him how much $$ he has invested in his fun gun and the pride he takes in it’s ownership.  I don't think you're in a position to speak for him.  I'm not either.  That's why I said "ask."  But if you really know him like you say, then he is unique by the strictest interpretation of the word.

Interventor did bring up a good point. IED technology regarding WMDs is coming but the use of them will be in addition to and not likely to ever replace the shooters. You’ll have your Oklahoma City’s and you’ll still have your Auroras.

Nope, they don’t require psych evals for fertilizer purchases, but they do monitor the quantity purchased. And if they do find something suspicious about the purchaser, I should hope they do a complete investigation including criminal and mental history because banning fertilizer is not the answer.

I can't ask my friend because, as I said, it was many years ago in a different state and I've lost touch with him after moving away. I just assume that knowing his personality, he wouldn't get all radical about it. He was a very mellow, easygoing guy. But then again, as I said, a lot of the psychos were said to be mellow and easygoing!  

I do know though that if someone wants to do something badly enough, it will be very difficult to stop them. The best solution for me personally is to avoid large gatherings of people. Not hard for me because I'm a bit claustrophobic and avoid crowds for that reason anyway. I haven't been to the movies for years because most of the movies coming out nowadays are trash. I don't go to the mall because I won't pay the inflated prices there. Heck, I don't go anywhere anymore because I usually put in 12 hour days at my shop.

Some may look at me and say I don't have a life, but at my age, a QUIET life is what I crave. And I have it.

Been good posting with you O No.

I wish you all the best.

Now you've done it. Got me cravin' me some bison steaks. !  Yea I ment vegetarian,. I misspelled it and spellcheck put that option in and I didn't look at it. (I'm remembering NOT to mess with O No !)

I agree with you to a great degree, but I have absolutely no problem hunting and killing game, although with a few exceptions, I refuse to kill what I am not intending to eat. Wish I had access to more "home made" meat. I have some places I trust to not put slime in my beef, but it still is commercial and Lord only knows what antibiotics and harmones is in most of it.

They are even telling us not to eat very much river fish. Damm, I used to live on river fish in the summer. 

Things change -

Seeweed, I used to live on junk food. But a while back I was diagnosed with celiac disease and all of a sudden my life changed. My system had gone crazy and it seemed like EVERYTHING was making me sick. My nutritionist said my system was in "hyperdrive" and was reacting to everything including pesticides on my produce, and chemicals in my beef. So she told me to go strictly organic for a while.

Well, it's been over a year now and I can't imagine myself ever going back to those tainted foods in the grocery store. When I see someone eating a hot dog for example, I have to bite my tongue or I'm likely to blurt out, "How can you put that in your mouth??!!"

So all in all, getting sick was the best thing that ever happened to me. The only bad thing is I am still underweight. A lot of folks would envy that, but I really don't LOOK healthy, and no matter what I eat I can't seem to gain. Guess i need to eat more bison.

==========================================================================

Hope you continue to improve, and I can agree about those hot dogs. If anybody ever actually read the ingredients , and was able to understand the long words of stuff not known to a regular person, you would never put one in you mouth without a condom on it.

Have you ever seen what happens to a milk jug when shot with a .30-30? THE SAME THING happens....and the .30-30 was invented in the 1890s.

A .30-06, from 1906, will achieve the same effect.  So will my .45 ACP hollow points from 1911.

"I have even shot an AK47. It was FUN watching the gallon milk jugs DISINTEGRATE in less than a second! But I suppose a ban on assault weapons like that is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with guns, but weapons like that are the weapons of choice for most of the nuts who want to kill massive numbers of people. And while it won't stop them from trying, it might make it possible for more people to escape if they have to use a shotgun or other weapon instead." ~ O No.

Guys, if you followed O No’s and my posting, if there is one impression I hoped to make on her and I think she followed, however wrong I was in presuming she shot a semi-auto, was that a full auto was not the choice of gun nuts wanting to kill a massive number of people as she stated above. Facts in American mass shooting since the St. Valentines Massacre simply do not support such an observation. And factually, if she was referring to the Aurora shooting, it was a semi-auto rifle used and quiet possibly was the shotgun that accounted for the most casualties. We won’t know until the forensic investigations are complete.

I believe she got that if she did any credibility checking on me. And I hope she continues to enjoy shooting and allows others like her and her friends to do the same.

So kudo’s to her for standing up for what she believed and listening to what I had to say without one insult or cussword as others are prone to do while the other forum libbers [I got a gun too], outright gun-grabbers and honky-tonk heroes went running for cover. For American citizens who may vote, their knowledge of the interpretation of the Second Amendment by the SCOTUS and it’s enforcement [or lack thereof] by BATFE was abysmal. I mean not a single comment on 4473. But being clueless hasn’t stopped them before.

BTW, anybody want to see a milk jug blown to smithereens with just one shot? You can order this one through the mail and no background checks. Try a double barrel flintlock muzzle loading fowling piece of the 1700's. The second barrel bats clean up.

With all the talk about hunting and shooting the elusive milk jug, I was just wondering - how do you clean it, and  if you fry it, does it taste like chicken ?

It all depends on what marinade you use.

Anchors on one of the Huntsville TV channels asked many years go how one cooked the orange targets used in trap/skeet shooting.  I fired back via telephone that you pulverized them in the blender, added a thick white sauce and made croquettes!.  Tastes just like salmon patties!  LOL!  Don't forget the lemon and tartar sauce!

Clay pigeons, Earthmomma. When combined with milk jugs, they provide a balanced diet.

However, gun grabbers prefer theirs with crow and bovine scat.

Good one, EM!  Glad to see you still have your sense of humor.  Wonder how many of the media types tried the recipe!

I heard their chocolate is safe too, but I haven't tried it yet. I've been so scared of getting sick again I'm afraid to try anything new.

@ O No - maybe y’all will be able to put some venison in the freezer this season. Signs are we may be in for a good one. I planted corn and soybeans for wildlife this year and my neighbors planted cotton. Can you eat fish caught anywhere but the TN River? I hear that it’s bad. Or how about rabbit or a chocolate Easter Bunny?

@ Weed - I grew up beside a rice field impoundment in a cypress swamp where bass and bream fishing was an everyday occurrence. Even winter. Now I have about 1 ½ miles of a creek running along the eastern edge of the farm which makes good wade fishing for bass and bream during the spring and so far this summer. Not too many folks like to wade fish though...worried about snakes and such. But when I was a boy, we gigged frogs in canals while gators followed us. They were looking for a snack when we field dressed the frogs. Maybe we were the snack but the gators never offered. Never did that though when momma gators were guarding their nests. We stayed in the canoes and boats like them. Something happened to the frogs, though, back in the 70's. Not like it used to be.

Earth Poppa had enjoyed frog gigging when we moved down here around 1960.  He stopped the night a fuzzy throated cottonmouth said, ,"Good evening, EP!

I’ll say this. I don’t need subtitles when I watch Swamp People. I like mudbugs and I dig Doug Kershaw. But no purple and gold for me. Wrong tiger.

LowCountry of South Carolina, seeweed. In the area between Charleston and Georgetown, between the Wando and Santee Rivers once made famous by Francis Marion, the "Swamp Fox", during the Revolutionary War and is riddled with swamps with names like "H e l l hole" and creeks named "No Man’s Friend." Many scenes from Mel Gibson’s movie "The Patriot" were filmed around there. Most of it remains the Francis Marion National Forest. Until recently 6,000 joining acres know as Fairlawn had been in private family hands since Colonial times which has now been donated to a state trust. A "B" movie called "Swamp Thing" was filmed there during the ‘70's I think. Where I lived was just north of the Santees off Winyah Bay where Lafayette first landed at a rice plantation. Rich in history but richer in wild game and fish. A good place to grow up.

Snakes pretty much abide by the "duty to retreat" law, but cotton mouths "stand their ground." While the eastern diamondback, timber, and canebreak rattlers common to that area would rather be non-confrontational and loudly announce their presence only if threatened, the cotton mouth will not move and the silent opening of it’s cotton mouth is the only warning a water moccasin is likely to give. Sometimes they’ll shake their tail on leaves or what not trying to imitate a rattler. While they were resting on logs floating in the creeks, I’ve floated right by them in a canoe and they didn’t budge nor even open their mouth while any other snake would have been long gone. The only snakes that have really gotten my attention have been water snakes appearing where I wasn’t expecting and hog-nosed snakes when they spread like a cobra.

I never ran across many copperheads till I moved to Alabama. In fact, only one or two, and I see twice that many in a year now. Or more.

Here’s a story relayed to me by one of my fellow giggers. Seems like he was not having much luck, so he sat down on a cypress log to have a sip of shine when he noticed a cottonmouth with a frog in its mouth. So he reached down grabbing the snake behind its head and removed the frog. Then he poured shine down the snakes mouth till it went limp and released it. Now according to him, a few sips of shine later he felt a bump on his boot and there was the snake with two more frogs.

Now this IS a true story. Maybe 30 years ago, a buddy of mine was canoe fishing the Echaw Creek in the FMNF. There are redbreast bream there two hands wide. He came across an one-armed elderly black gentleman also fishing and they began swapping stories. He asked the man how he lost his arm and he replied he "was out one night ‘gatorin’’ but the gator was out "n*****in’."

I wish I knew how to post pictures here because I have a picture sent to me of a gator taken a couple of years ago from the Santee that would make Troy proud. Whooeee! SC like LA has gator seasons.