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Amongst many other false claims, Bill has stated that he desires to tutor me on the Bible.  For the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to assume that he actually does.

 

So far, through my conversations with Bill, we have established the following tenets of his fundamentalist belief system:

 

1.  Once save, always saved.

2. The Bible is to be taken literally except for obvious uses of metaphors, simile and symbolism.

3. Everything in the New Testament, including all of Paul's writing, is God's word to us, straight from God, and God doesn't change his mind.

4. If someone willfully disobeys the Bible, then they were never Christians, and still aren't.

5. God and Jesus are omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and continue to work here on earth and in heaven.

6. Many of Jesus' pronouncements in the Bible are either wrong or should be ignored..

7. Willful, continuing, disobedience of Jesus' teachings, and Paul's writing, are okay if you believe the local preacher has given you a pass.

8. In order to be a Christian, one must be possessed by a ghost.

9. Catholics, Mormons, Christian Scientists, Universal Unitarians, anyone who reads The Urantia Book, and all Liberal Christians (that is every denomination except some Baptist ones) are really just atheists.

10. Either Dr. Seuss wrote the Bible, or the earth is flat, or the Bible isn't to be taken literally - the final verdict is out on this one, but it is one of the three - still waiting for Bill to get back on this one.

 

Before I ask my next question, we have to establish some additional groundwork.  These are not questions that I wish to debate, but merely want to understand Bill's position on.

 

1:  Did Moses write parts of the Bible?

2:  Which parts, exactly?

3:  When did he do his writing?

 

How about it, Bill?  Up for it?

=======================

Welcome to Alabama! Cut your grass or we'll whoop your ass. -- NashBama

un til them go OBAMA and hang in their. -- rechardbettyrey

you are the most dishonest person I havem ever met on the Religion Forum! -- Bill Gray

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Crusty, my Friend,

 

So that you will not get the feeling of having "ants in your pants" I will offer this wee bit of info for now:

 

Did Moses Really Write Genesis?
by Russell Grigg
http://creation.com/did-moses-really-write-genesis

A deadly hypothesis denying that Moses had anything to do with Genesis, based on spurious scholarship, is still widely being taught to future Christian leaders.

Who wrote Genesis?   Internal evidences in the text of the Pentateuch indicate that the author was familiar with Egyptian customs, as would be expected of Moses.

Nearly all liberal Bible colleges and seminaries, and sadly some which profess conservative evangelical doctrine, approvingly teach the ‘documentary hypothesis’, also known as the ‘JEDP hypothesis’.

What is the documentary hypothesis?

This is the liberal/critical view which denies that Moses wrote Genesis to Deuteronomy.  It teaches that various anonymous authors compiled these five books (plus other portions of the Old Testament) from centuries of oral tradition, up to 900 years after Moses lived (if, in this view, he even existed).

Was Moses J, E, D, P, or R?

Answer:  He was none of the above.  Rather, Moses himself was both writer and editor of the Pentateuch, and these five books were composed by him in about 1400 BC , not by unknowns at the time of the Exile.  This does not mean that Moses did not use other written sources available to him (see later), or that he wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy 34 that record his death.  Talmudic (Rabbinic Jewish) tradition has always been that these were added, under divine inspiration, by Joshua.

There is no external evidence at all in support of J, E, D, P, or R.  What were their names?  What else did these alleged literary savants write? History, both Hebrew and secular, knows nothing of them.  They exist only in the fertile imaginations of the inventors of the documentary hypothesis. 

Evidence for Moses authorship of the Pentateuch:

Clay tablets like this were ideal for long-term written records.  Far from ‘Flintstones’ clumsiness, these could be held in one hand.  Patriarchal records may have been carried on the Ark, later used by Moses in compiling Genesis (under inspiration).

The evidence that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, often referred to in the Bible as ‘the Law’ (Hebrew torah), is overwhelming:

Contrary to the views of Wellhausen and others, archaeological research has established that writing was indeed well known in Moses’ day.  The JEDP hypothesis falsely assumes that the Israelites waited until many centuries after the foundation of their nation before committing any of their history or laws to written form, even though their neighbors kept written records of their own history and religion from before the time of Moses.

The author is obviously an eyewitness of the Exodus from Egypt, familiar with the geography, flora and fauna of the region; he uses several Egyptian words, and refers to customs that go back to the second millennium BC.

The Pentateuch claims in many places that Moses was the writer, e.g. Exodus 17:14; 24:4–7; 34:27; Numbers 33:2; Deuteronomy 31:9, 22, 24. Many times in the rest of the Old Testament, Moses is said to have been the writer, e.g. Joshua 1:7–8; 8:32–34; Judges 3:4; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Kings 14:6; 21:8; 2 Chronicles 25:4; Ezra 6:18; Nehemiah 8:1; 13:1; Daniel 9:11–13.

In the New Testament, Jesus frequently spoke of Moses’ writings or the Law of Moses, e.g. Matthew 8:4; 19:7–8; Mark 7:10; 12:26; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:46–47; 7:19.  Jesus said that those who ‘hear not [i.e. reject] Moses’ (writings) would not be persuaded ‘though one rose from the dead’ (Luke 16:31). 

Thus we see that those churches and seminaries which reject the historicity of Moses’ writings often also reject the literal bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Other New Testament speakers/writers said the same thing, e.g. John 1:17; Acts 6:14; 13:39; 15:5; 1 Corinthians 9:9; 2 Corinthians 3:15; Hebrews 10:28.

Does this mean that Moses wrote Genesis without reference to any previous information?  Not necessarily.  Genesis comprises narratives of historical events that occurred before Moses was born.  Moses may very well have had access to patriarchal records and/or reliable oral traditions of these events.  In that case, such records would certainly have been preserved by being written (probably on clay tablets) and handed down from father to son via the line of Adam-Seth-Noah-Shem-Abraham-Isaac-Jacob, etc.

There are 11 verses in Genesis which read, ‘These are (or ‘This is) the book of the generations of …’  The Hebrew word toledoth translated ‘generations’ can also mean ‘origins’ - ‘history’ - or even ‘family history' - and each verse comes either before or after a description of historical events that involved the person named.  The most likely explanation is that Adam, Noah, Shem, etc. each wrote an account of the events that occurred either right before or during his lifetime, and Moses, under the infallible inspiration of the Holy Spirit, selected, compiled, and edited these to produce Genesis in its present cohesive form.

Genesis does not show a progress from idolatry to monotheism, as Wellhausen’s evolutionism requires.  Rather, the Bible begins with an original revelation of God, which was later rejected to the point that the Hebrew nation itself descended into idolatry and so was given over to captivity by God.


My Friend, I pray that helped you understanding, and your faith, in the inspiration and inerrancy of God's Written Word, the Bible.  I truly enjoy your eagerness to learn more about God and the Christian faith.

 

Luke 11:9, "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bible Contradicts Man

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  • Bible Contradicts Man
Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Seven:

Y'all hold on. He's preparing a 50 paragraph docudrama that dances around the subject. Complete with sarcastic cartoons and hateful remarks about your beliefs. All wrapped up with a big bless your evil little heart at the end. 

Good times. Good times. 

_______

AND in another topic because this one will be declared a spitting contest.

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