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quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Bill, again you accuse us (atheists) of something that is just not true. One more time...we are not out to destroy Christianity. What would be the fun in that?

Hi Tick,

That is true, not all atheists want to destroy the Christian faith; some just want to wander the world without Christ.

But, you will have to admit that there are MANY atheists who have set as their goal in life -- the total annihilation of anything of God.

Good examples are atheists leaders such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, et at.

But, even these men, in my opinion, are not doing it for religious reasons. They are doing it for the money! They laugh all the way to the bank at their followers who rush to buy their books and attend their paid seminars.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
But, even these men, in my opinion, are not doing it for religious reasons. They are doing it for the money! They laugh all the way to the bank at their followers who rush to buy their books and attend their paid seminars.

You mean like you guys made these people rich? Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Tilmon, Angley, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Swaggart, and on an on and on?? AGAIN bill, clean up your own house first.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
But, even these men, in my opinion, are not doing it for religious reasons. They are doing it for the money! They laugh all the way to the bank at their followers who rush to buy their books and attend their paid seminars.

You mean like you guys made these people rich? Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Tilmon, Angley, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Swaggart, and on an on and on?? AGAIN bill, clean up your own house first.


Kinda, but not quite. These religious nut cases traded on people's trust and belief in God to line their pockets. They told outright lies and made promises in God's name. They belong in the lowest rung of hell.

Bill am I denigrating Christians again?
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Bill, again you accuse us (atheists) of something that is just not true. One more time...we are not out to destroy Christianity. What would be the fun in that?

Hi Tick,

That is true, not all atheists want to destroy the Christian faith; some just want to wander the world without Christ.

But, you will have to admit that there are MANY atheists who have set as their goal in life -- the total annihilation of anything of God.

Good examples are atheists leaders such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, et at.

But, even these men, in my opinion, are not doing it for religious reasons. They are doing it for the money! They laugh all the way to the bank at their followers who rush to buy their books and attend their paid seminars.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Actually that is what you have decided is their agenda. I have never heard anything of the sort out of those men.

I have never met an atheist that would want to take away your god. First it would be impossible. You can't control the minds of others. Second, most atheist believe in freedom and free thought. It would go against their morals to try and dictate to others who or what they worshiped.

I will say again for the upteenth time on this forum. All we want is for religion to be kept out of our schools, science, politics, and laws. Go to church all you want. Pray constantly. Believe with all your heart and mind that it is all real for all I care. Just stop expecting the rest of the world to believe as you do. My biggest pet peeve is being treated as second class citizens because I don't think and believe as you do. I have morals and live a good life. However due to the fact that I don't believe in god I am often judged as immoral because of that.

If you didn't know anything about me or Joesph Vinson (the man that beat Peanut) and all you were told about us was that I was an atheist and he was a christian, what would be your first instincts about our morals?

That is what I want to see change.
I will concede that there may be some atheists (probably a minority) that would like to eradicate Christianity, But I have never met a Christian that didn't want to eradicate atheism. So if I wanted to destroy Christianity I am wrong, evil, but if I wanted to destroy atheism I would be good, and pure and noble and rightious. Sort of a double standard ain't it?
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
I will concede that there may be some atheists (probably a minority) that would like to eradicate Christianity, But I have never met a Christian that didn't want to eradicate atheism. So if I wanted to destroy Christianity I am wrong, evil, but if I wanted to destroy atheism I would be good, and pure and noble and rightious. Sort of a double standard ain't it?

--------

tic,,,,,I bet there would be many people like me that concerns themselves
about atheists, but not to the point you think. You have free will and its
your choice. I'll say there is a God and let it go.

What I'm not going to do is have a few half wits jump in my face like
they are the only ones who have a right of opinion.

I'm not saying you're as obnoxious and stupid as jimi,unob and some others,
but thats when I go off.

I don't care what you think or believe, so why would some care what I believe.

Don't put me in with the Bill Grays and don't tell me I posted a lot of lies.

People posting bougus googles, screaming debunk, debunk like the mindless twit

they are is getting old and worn out.


/
Last edited by INVICTUS
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
I will concede that there may be some atheists (probably a minority) that would like to eradicate Christianity, But I have never met a Christian that didn't want to eradicate atheism. So if I wanted to destroy Christianity I am wrong, evil, but if I wanted to destroy atheism I would be good, and pure and noble and rightious. Sort of a double standard ain't it?


blue,

there is a huge misconception about this. If I had my way, I would put a huge, fatal dent into Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other transcendent religions not by force of law or at the point of a gun... but by exposing them as the illogical, manipulative, emotional crutches they are.

Religion stems from a couple of emotional things. First is the human tendency to form patterns. We see a complicated system of life and want to assume that someone is in charge of it, pulling the puppet strings that dictate the fall of every sparrow.

Second is the fear of death. I don't look forward to the Big Sleep, but I rather imagine it will be as peaceful as that place from which we came before we were born. That place which caused us no discomfort whatever. Mine is not the universal opinion.

That said, I would fight with the religious against anyone who would abrade the freedom of religious thought that is guaranteed by our remarkable Constitution.

There is quite a bit of wiggle room when it comes to tax-exempt status of political churches, profit-motivated churches like Scientology and tent preachers, and the like. Even the property-tax exemption of all brick-and-mortar churches that depend on civil services like Police and Fire protection.

No one reveres freedom of religion like we atheists. In many countries, we are subject to punishments up to and including the death penalty. The cost of this is tolerating nonsensical and frappish religions. I'll accept that.

nsns
quote:
there is a huge misconception about this. If I had my way, I would put a huge, fatal dent into Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other transcendent religions not by force of law or at the point of a gun... but by exposing them as the illogical, manipulative, emotional crutches they are.


Dearest deep it is with head bowed, one knee in some lonesome valley and my heart crying that you will show yourself some measure of mercy.

What simple practitioner of intellect including the religious are you planning this exposé that is not already aware and appraised of this charge?

You are possessed with the notion that your position against religion is somehow unique and marketable to the hoards.

It’s not. Your paranoia and panic is hardly noticed except for a few masochists that await some queue from you to claim suffering at the hands of Christians.

My advice: find you some “church” out there and join in the nonsense.

For the past few months you have maneuvered yourself around to the point you appear somewhat as a saint. You are a candidate.

You never seem to amaze me.
quote:
I will say again for the upteenth time on this forum. All we want is for religion to be kept out of our schools, science, politics, and laws. Go to church all you want. Pray constantly. Believe with all your heart and mind that it is all real for all I care. Just stop expecting the rest of the world to believe as you do. My biggest pet peeve is being treated as second class citizens because I don't think and believe as you do. I have morals and live a good life. However due to the fact that I don't believe in god I am often judged as immoral because of that.

If you didn't know anything about me or Joesph Vinson (the man that beat Peanut) and all you were told about us was that I was an atheist and he was a christian, what would be your first instincts about our morals?

That is what I want to see change.


Interesting Jank. First, as a free thinking deist (I guess that is what I am) I also want religion out of our laws, schools and politics. I really don't trust others interpretations of what they "see" as religion in any of the above. Never forgetting if you allow one then you must allow ALL.

As for the latter part of your post. I would not judge the morality of either the atheist or the christian on their admission of belief or lack thereof.

I see far too much hypocrisy by many that profess to be "christians" to give them a "free pass".

I don't buy into the dogma of religion. For lack of a better term, I guess that I am more "Jungian" than anything. Wink "Religion" and its extremities scare me.

I just kinda go by:

Did you do what you said you were going to do? Check

Are you caring of others? Check

Good to kids and animals? Check

Involved in your community? Check

Okay, "you good folks". Let's go have a beer, pet "Spot" and get into Slim's stash. Big Grin
Thats great UW! Me and you would and will rock right along then. Big Grin When the majority of believers start thinking and judging people as you do then the world will be much better.

Sadly we are in a minority.

Many christians when presented with that limited amount of information will automatically think the christian would have better morals than the atheist.

I think smart christians would also agree with us about keeping religion out of our laws, schools, etc. If they have thought about it realistically they do.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
But, even these men, in my opinion, are not doing it for religious reasons. They are doing it for the money! They laugh all the way to the bank at their followers who rush to buy their books and attend their paid seminars.

You mean like you guys made these people rich? Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Tilmon, Angley, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Swaggart, and on an on and on?? AGAIN bill, clean up your own house first.

Hi Jennifer,

Gee, where did I go wrong? I have been doing Christian writing, apologetics, and evangelism for over 20 years -- and I am still not rich. Did I forget to do something?

All I have received, of earthly wealth, in those 20 years was 30 postage stamps. Let me see, that should have been about $12. Wow! I'm rich! I can almost afford to have lunch at Taco Belle!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
I will concede that there may be some atheists (probably a minority) that would like to eradicate Christianity, But I have never met a Christian that didn't want to eradicate atheism. So if I wanted to destroy Christianity I am wrong, evil, but if I wanted to destroy atheism I would be good, and pure and noble and rightious. Sort of a double standard ain't it?

Hi Tick,

No, we do not want to destroy atheism; for that will always be with us until Jesus comes again and establishes His 1000 year Millennial Kingdom on earth.

What we do want to do is to bring as many non-believers, i.e., atheists, secularist, agnostics, vanilla-flavored non-believers, etc. -- as possible into the Family of God. You see, we want to spend eternity with you.

But, if you will take a look at Deep's comments on this page -- he DOES want to destroy all religions as well as Christianity. Like Pharaoh of Moses' day -- some folks have hardened their hearts against God -- to their eternal loss.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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For the record and if necessary, I too am committed to the revered and secular constitutional principle of separation of church and state. The founding fathers were wise to choose to protect this country by avoiding any entanglements between religion and government. Basically, and as already stated by others, I want freedom from any religion in our government, laws, politics and public schools. But I don't have any problem with anyone believing in whatever they choose to believe in, as long the practice of their belief doesn't impinge on the practice of my non-belief. Simple as that.

"Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?" Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Conner (Ten Commandments ruling - 6/27/2005)
Hi Jennifer,

Gee, where did I go wrong? I have been doing Christian writing, apologetics, and evangelism for over 20 years -- and I am still not rich. Did I forget to do something?

All I have received, of earthly wealth, in those 20 years was 30 postage stamps. Let me see, that should have been about $12. Wow! I'm rich! I can almost afford to have lunch at Taco Belle!

********************************************

I didn't say you got rich. I haven't made any money because I'm an atheist either. You don't seem to like the fact those men make money from writing books and lecturing about atheism. I pointed out a few, just a few, of the ministers that were getting rich promoting their religion.

You don't see the hypocrisy in your post? If an atheist started building monster cathedrals, theme parks, and was on TV crying and begging for money I'd have a problem with him/her. But you don't seem to care if shysters use your god to get rich. For every atheist that writes a book or lectures about atheism there are a hundred ministers doing the same thing about their religion. So again, what is your point?
Jank,

Sadly you are right. Why is it so hard to grasp such a simple concept. As "A" put it "live and let live". Too often we are met with the "my way or the highway" mindset.

Granted, and I would be a hypocrite myself if I did not admit, I have my "ways", notions and ideas of "how things should work". The difference (I hope) is that I strive to keep an open mind and a willingness to "meet you halfway". I would also be a hypocrite to think that I succeed more than I fail in that quest. Wink

Jimi, as blunt as you post is, I wish I could disagree with you, but I can't. We see it far too often not to admit its validity.

"A." Love your attitude. I always look forward to your posts. I sit up and take notice because usually there is something there that I can take with me and learn from.

Ironic, that I relate more to the atheist here isn't it? Yet, a believer I am. But know this, I will never, ever, ever, try to impose my belief on you.

Now lets all go down to river, have a beer, throw "Spot" a bone, and hope that Slim will bless us with a little of his "secret" stash.

Big Grin Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
For the record and if necessary, I too am committed to the revered and secular constitutional principle of separation of church and state. The founding fathers were wise to choose to protect this country by avoiding any entanglements between religion and government. Basically, and as already stated by others, I want freedom from any religion in our government, laws, politics and public schools. But I don't have any problem with anyone believing in whatever they choose to believe in, as long the practice of their belief doesn't impinge on the practice of my non-belief. Simple as that.

"Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?" Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Conner (Ten Commandments ruling - 6/27/2005)


Great post A. Very well said. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by uwsoftball:
Jank,

Sadly you are right. Why is it so hard to grasp such a simple concept. As "A" put it "live and let live". Too often we are met with the "my way or the highway" mindset.

Granted, and I would be a hypocrite myself if I did not admit, I have my "ways", notions and ideas of "how things should work". The difference (I hope) is that I strive to keep an open mind and a willingness to "meet you halfway". I would also be a hypocrite to think that I succeed more than I fail in that quest. Wink

Jimi, as blunt as you post is, I wish I could disagree with you, but I can't. We see it far too often not to admit its validity.

"A." Love your attitude. I always look forward to your posts. I sit up and take notice because usually there is something there that I can take with me and learn from.

Ironic, that I relate more to the atheist here isn't it? Yet, a believer I am. But know this, I will never, ever, ever, try to impose my belief on you.

Now lets all go down to river, have a beer, throw "Spot" a bone, and hope that Slim will bless us with a little of his "secret" stash.

Big Grin Big Grin


I think NS will share. Nobody likes to toke alone. Smiler

Maybe he will break out the guitar too and we can have a sing-a-long.

Whaddya say Slim oh buddy oh pal...? I got skins! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Ubu:
quote:
Maybe he will break out the guitar too and we can have a sing-a-long.


Me and my "daddy" play too. Can we come? We'll have us a real hoe down Wink


Excerpt from Big Bill Broonzy song.....

We got whiskey, wine and gin
We got hot dogs what ain't got no skin
Ain't we? Ain't we gonna have a good time?
ooo wee mama we gonna have a good time. Big Grin

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