Hi to my Forum Friends,
Our Forum Friend, Fine, tells us, "What I have said is Christians say 'something can't come from nothing' -- but turn around and say God just exist -- no explanation needed."
No, God does not just exist -- God was, is, and always will be PREEXISTING and ETERNAL. There is a difference -- and that difference is why He is God. John 1:1 tells us, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This is the same "In the beginning" we find in Genesis 1:1 -- en arche in Greek (John 1:1), re'shiyth in Hebrew (Genesis 1:1) -- both referring to the beginning of our time. Everything prior to that was "preexisting" -- which tells us that both God the Father and Jesus Christ, God the Son, were preexisting when our time, creation, began. This is why we who are spiritually reborn know They are God.
I realize this is difficult for non-believers to grasp; often it is even difficult for believers. It is much like trying to understanding eternity and miracles.
Miracles I understand because I have experienced them in my own life and have seen them in the lives of others. I personally had a relatively large, black growth removed from my right temple -- in four days -- and only by the power of prayer.
The question one should be asking is, "Why did it take God four days to remove the growth? If it was a miracle; why did it not just disappear immediately?" Those are legitimate questions. The only answer I can give is to pose another question: "Why did it take God six days to create the heavens and the earth?" Answer: He was setting a standard for mankind -- work for six days and then allow both man and animals to rest for one day. Why my four days? Possibly to strengthen my faith.
The growth appeared very suddenly. My wife, Dory, and I were helping our pastor do Wednesday morning Bible studies at a seniors apartment complex. One of the men, Frank, had similar growths on his face and they were cancerous. The next week, I noticed the growth on my right temple -- large enough to frighten both Dory and me.
That night, I lay in bed, put my finger on the growth, and prayed that God would remove it. As I prayed, I felt a peaceful warmth come over me -- and I knew, beyond a doubt, that He had answered my prayer with a "Yes." I accepted this answer and rolled over and slept peacefully, knowing full well that the growth would be removed.
The first day, it was not removed, but it was a wee bit smaller. The second day, yet even smaller. And on the fourth day; it was gone, never to return again. I had faith in His "Yes" answer -- and He rewarded my faith.
To the person without spiritual discernment, without spiritual guidance, this sounds silly. Yet, for those of us who have the Holy Spirit within us; it is only God working.
Now, let us get back to understanding God being preexistent and to understanding eternity; both really the same. Try as I may, I cannot get my mind around "preexisting" or "eternity." Try this: think back in time, as far as you can; think of the largest number of years your mind can grasp -- how about 1 followed by a million zeroes. Can your mind grasp this large number? Mine cannot. Yet that large number of years, 1 followed by a million zeroes -- is only a blink of the eye when compared to eternity. Can my mind understand and grasp that? No. That is why we are told, in Ephesians 2:8-9, that "by grace through FAITH we are saved."
In the Bible, Hebrews chapter 11 is called by Christians the Honor Roll of Faith. It begins with, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible" (Hebrews 11:1-3).
This is telling us, that by faith, we know that the universe, the heavens and the earth, were made by God from nothing.
Pastor Chuck Smith, in his commentary "Genesis 1:1-8 (C2000 Series)" -- tells us: The word "created" is the Hebrew word "bara" which speaks of creating something out of nothing, a capacity that only God has. Man cannot "bara." We cannot, out of nothing, create something. We create with the idea of "asa," the Hebrew word "asa," which is the assembling together of existing materials. Now the word "asa" is used in much of the creative acts here in the book of Genesis, the assembling of an order from pre-existing materials. But the existing materials from which the things were assembled were originally created -- through "bara."
Hebrews 11 continues:
By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain,
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death;
By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen,
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed,
By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive,
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau,
By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph,
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel,
By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
By faith they (the Israelites) passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land;
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down,
By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient,
And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms,
So, my dear Friend, Fine, you can see that God does place a great deal of importance on FAITH. And, that is why we are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Then, you declare,"At least with believing what we now know as 'life' came from billions of years of change from a universe that 'just exists' makes more sense than a 6 thousand year old earth made from dirt by a supernatural being that was simply bored."
You believe in material proofs and the word of others who have gained knowledge of material things -- because you do not have the FAITH to believe in the God who created you. Because you cannot touch God, you refuse to believe Him. Yet, if you will only, by faith, turn to Him -- you will feel His touch in many ways.
Do I believe in an absolute 6000 year old earth? I do believe in the "young earth" teaching of the Bible; that the earth, and all creation, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6000, give or take a few thousand. The six thousand year old earth teaching was established by Bishop Ussher (1581-1656), an Irish theologian and scholar, and the Anglican Archbishop of Armagh, in what is now Northern Ireland.
Just an interesting, at least to me, side note: I have traced my genealogy back to my g-g-g-g-g-g grandfather who was born in England in 1580, then moved to Armagh in Northern Ireland in 1620, where he died in 1631. So, I find it interesting that he was living in Armagh; possibly worshiping with and under Bishop Ussher -- when Ussher was doing this research.
We are told that Bishop Ussher "began his calculation by adding the ages of the twenty-one generations of people of the Hebrew-derived Old Testament, beginning with Adam and Eve." There is great probability that some generations are left out of the Biblical genealogies; and that God has only given us what we need to establish Biblical lineages. So, even if some ten or fifteen generations are left out, which is highly unlikely to be that many, but, let's take it to this extreme. This would still only give us an error of maybe a few thousand years at most. This still keeps us well within the "young earth" time range.
Those who teach "old earth" beliefs base their millions and billions of years largely upon Carbon-14 dating of fossils. It has long been acknowledged by scientists that Carbon-14 dating only has an accuracy of thousands of years (fifty thousand at most). So, anything over that time frame is merely guessing or misinformation. With Carbon-14 dating, it is impossible to establish an age of millions or billions of years -- per scientific sources.
To read more on the life and work of Bishop Ussher in establishing his "young earth" teachings; click on the URL link below and read the full article:
Bishop James Ussher Sets the Date for Creation by Doug Linder (2004) http://www.law.umkc.edu/facult...s/scopes/ussher.html
The chronology first appeared in The Annals of the Old Testament, a monumental work first published in London in the summer of 1650. In 1654, Ussher added a part two which took his history through Rome’s destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The project, which produced 2,000 pages in Latin, occupied twenty years of Ussher’s life.
Ussher committed himself to establishing a date for Creation that could withstand any challenge. He located and studied thousands of ancient books and manuscripts, written in many different languages. By the time of his death, he had amassed a library of over 10,000 volumes.
Inspired by and building upon the work of Bishop Ussher, Sir Robert Anderson (1841 - 1918) concentrated more on the prophecies of the book of Daniel and other end times teachings.
Sir Robert Anderson and the Seventy Weeks of Daniel by Tom Stewart, January 14, 2000 http://www.whatsaiththescriptu...Robert.Anderson.html
The significance of Sir Robert Anderson's book, "The Coming Prince" (1895), should not be underestimated by modern students of Bible prophecy, in that Anderson not only ably defended Daniel's authorship of the Book of Daniel from the "scholarship" of unbelief of the Higher Criticism of his day, but he clearly established the historical accuracy of the fulfillment of the time oriented prophecy for the First Advent of the LORD Jesus Christ. "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself" (Daniel 9:24-26).
And, you will find more on Sir Robert Anderson's work at:
http://www.raptureready.com/resource/anderson/robert_anderson.html
Sir Robert Anderson was the chief inspector for Scotland Yard. He was greatly respected for his skill as an investigator. When Anderson wasn't writing on subjects related to crime, he wrote books on Christian prophecy. He helped establish the fact that 69 of Daniel's 70 weeks have now transpired, and that the tribulation will be the 70th week. Sir Robert Anderson's book, The Coming Prince, has become a foundational resource for all dispensationalists.
So, my Friend, YES, I believe in the preexisting, eternal God who was, who is, and who always will be. I believe in eternal life for all men; either with God in heaven, or with Satan in hell. I believe the Bible to be the inspired, inerrant Word of God; His User's Manual for mankind. I believe the Lord Jesus will come to Rapture His church, His people out of this earth. I believe there will be a seven year Tribulation in which billions of people will come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. I believe in His Millennial Kingdom on earth; where He, Jesus Christ, will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem for one thousand years. I believe that He will then take all believers into eternity to live eternally with God.
I believe. And, that is what gives me an eternal edge over those who are still walking in spiritual darkness, still following the world.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net
Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!
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