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Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Stanky, you get the Bill Gray award.

 

One more thing, I talked to two people who was hooked on opium based pain killers. They have been clean for 2 or 3 years, they both said "you will never feel right again". I encourage people to try not to use the opium based pain meds.

_______________________________________________________________

 

I got tired of the "weed ain't harmful" propaganda so I just presented the real facts and yes, opiates are harmful if they are taken long enough to cause addiction. As to decriminalization, I don't care one way or the other since I don't use the stuff and the Fed's can't run a one float parade. I do think that the regulation of anything should be left to the electorate of state and local governments provided that what is to regulated is not a natural right.

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

Best and Seeweed are alike in many ways.

 

They both want gov't intruding into the lives of citizens, just in different ways.

 

It is not any of the government's business what I smoke in the privacy of my home.

 

The gov't also has no place telling a business owner how to run their business.

-----------------------------

Ah, what you do in the privacy of your own home. Oh yes. Well, work and school, driving down the roads and highways and being in other public places isn't the privacy of one's home. Government intrusion or obeying the freaking laws? People can do a lot of things in the privacy of their own home, good things, fun things, harmless things, and many bad things. Stanky posted some things about the adverse effects of marijuana. Am I supposed to be happy as a taxpayer to pay for treatment for people that willingly used something they knew could be bad for them? Yes, stay out of your 'private home life' UNTIL you need us for something. 

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Stanky, you get the Bill Gray award.

 

One more thing, I talked to two people who was hooked on opium based pain killers. They have been clean for 2 or 3 years, they both said "you will never feel right again". I encourage people to try not to use the opium based pain meds.

_______________________________________________________________

 

I got tired of the "weed ain't harmful" propaganda so I just presented the real facts and yes, opiates are harmful if they are taken long enough to cause addiction. As to decriminalization, I don't care one way or the other since I don't use the stuff and the Fed's can't run a one float parade. I do think that the regulation of anything should be left to the electorate of state and local governments provided that what is to regulated is not a natural right.

============

Well, you are welcome to your opinion (and I think some of that post isi carryover from "Reefer Madness"). However, in this country we sanction use of some substances that are far worse to one's health , lilke tobacco, which I consider far more addicting than opiates and kills far more people , and cost our economy millions of dollars than MJ ever will. And then there is the (so far) still sanctioned selling of GMO foods for human or animal consumption, although their sale in most civilized countries has already been banned.

Although I enjoy my (almost) daily gin and tonic, alcohol , not taken in moderate amounts, is probably a worse health hazard, and a drunk is far more prone to get in a car and drive than a stoner, and is more apt to hurt other people.
As I have said before, I quit getting smoking mj back in 72, but I also know it is not the terrible risk that some portray it.
HOWEVER, the subject here is whether or not it is right to keep MJ illegal solely ffor the purpose of allowing the police force the ability to seize (read that steal) property for their own benefit. 
I think a lot of the problems we have had with our police forces becomingn more and more of a police state , is because of the "war on drugs" . It is a war, but we have lost in the way it is prosecuted and we need to take a more enlightened approach if we truly want to stop drug use, especially in our youth. 

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

Best and Seeweed are alike in many ways.

 

They both want gov't intruding into the lives of citizens, just in different ways.

 

It is not any of the government's business what I smoke in the privacy of my home.

 

The gov't also has no place telling a business owner how to run their business.

-----------------------------

Ah, what you do in the privacy of your own home. Oh yes. Well, work and school, driving down the roads and highways and being in other public places isn't the privacy of one's home. Government intrusion or obeying the freaking laws? People can do a lot of things in the privacy of their own home, good things, fun things, harmless things, and many bad things. Stanky posted some things about the adverse effects of marijuana. Am I supposed to be happy as a taxpayer to pay for treatment for people that willingly used something they knew could be bad for them? Yes, stay out of your 'private home life' UNTIL you need us for something. 

So does that mean that you think alcohol should be outlawed as well?

 

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

Best and Seeweed are alike in many ways.

 

They both want gov't intruding into the lives of citizens, just in different ways.

 

It is not any of the government's business what I smoke in the privacy of my home.

 

The gov't also has no place telling a business owner how to run their business.

-----------------------------

Ah, what you do in the privacy of your own home. Oh yes. Well, work and school, driving down the roads and highways and being in other public places isn't the privacy of one's home. Government intrusion or obeying the freaking laws? People can do a lot of things in the privacy of their own home, good things, fun things, harmless things, and many bad things. Stanky posted some things about the adverse effects of marijuana. Am I supposed to be happy as a taxpayer to pay for treatment for people that willingly used something they knew could be bad for them? Yes, stay out of your 'private home life' UNTIL you need us for something. 

What about McDonalds? The overuse of fatty fast foods by poor people contributes to their bad health then taxpayers have to pay for their healthcare.

 

Should fast food be outlawed?

 

What about sodas? 

 

What about cigarettes?

 

If the rationale for outlawing marajuana is that the taxpayer has to pick up the tab due to abuse by people who use it then all of those things should be outlawed as well.

 

Does the benefit from the War on Drugs justify the cost? The resounding answer is no. 

Even though I don't agree with Seeweed on much, ya'll have missed his point.  If someone saves up enough money to buy a car, takes that money out of the bank to go to the dealership to buy the car, gets pulled over and the police finds the money, they sieze the money saying it is drug money.  Now instead of getting their new car the money that the police did not steal is used for lawyers and court cost.

Originally Posted by mad American:

Even though I don't agree with Seeweed on much, ya'll have missed his point.  If someone saves up enough money to buy a car, takes that money out of the bank to go to the dealership to buy the car, gets pulled over and the police finds the money, they sieze the money saying it is drug money.  Now instead of getting their new car the money that the police did not steal is used for lawyers and court cost.

You and Seeweed are both 100% correct. 

 

The "War on Drugs" is an excuse for the gov't to steal more of the citizens' money. 

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

Best and Seeweed are alike in many ways.

 

They both want gov't intruding into the lives of citizens, just in different ways.

 

It is not any of the government's business what I smoke in the privacy of my home.

 

The gov't also has no place telling a business owner how to run their business.

==========

Although I am pretty much immune to insults, you have managed to cross the line .
Please , never again compare me with Jennifer.

 

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

Best and Seeweed are alike in many ways.

 

They both want gov't intruding into the lives of citizens, just in different ways.

 

It is not any of the government's business what I smoke in the privacy of my home.

 

The gov't also has no place telling a business owner how to run their business.

==========

Although I am pretty much immune to insults, you have managed to cross the line .
Please , never again compare me with Jennifer.

 

'Weed, like Best and Bud I couldn't access your article so here's some links everyone should be able to access:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...IQAUIKVZU_story.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/042...ivil_forfeiture.html

 

http://sensiblethought.com/201...nt-danger-to-america

 

http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_f...orfeituretoemail.pdf

 

I might also note that  seizures are not just limited to the drug trade. I also doubt that LEO's on the street are the problem. Politicians with badges , city council members, mayors, and the Fed's would be on my list.

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Have you ever saw what happens to a car that the police search. It gets demolished and they don't have to put it back togather. The cops should be forced to pay for it. Somewhere they may have to, in my hometown, they haven't.

Not every car is done this way. Be fair about it. Departments are held liable for damages if nothing is seized. They document it in the event the owner wishes action.

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Weed, you keep harping on medical marijuana, and I keep posting that IS NOT what I am discussing. Months back I posted article after article about medical marijuana and it's benefits, but how it's not real popular because it doesn't get the 'sick folks'  high. You know, those, wink wink sick folks with those hazy, questionable medical problems? Oh, someone looked at them wrong and now they're all hurt mentally and need it to make them feel better and be able to cope! Give me a break.

======
Well, I do support medical marijuana, but I said nothing about it in the post,. You need to do a little research on this herb before you discount it's ability. As far as I know, at least one pharmaceutical company uses it's ingredients in a pill - Marinol, but I guess it is for "wink, wink sick folks" ?

 

The flaw in your logic, and most other supporters, is that you only want the drug with the THC. A pill with the medicinal benefits, minus the hallucinogenic THC, isn't sought after. The reason for this is that people want to get high. Just say what you really mean.

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Stanky, you get the Bill Gray award.

 

One more thing, I talked to two people who was hooked on opium based pain killers. They have been clean for 2 or 3 years, they both said "you will never feel right again". I encourage people to try not to use the opium based pain meds.

Looks like facts to me. But let's not let those pesky things get our way.

Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Weed, you keep harping on medical marijuana, and I keep posting that IS NOT what I am discussing. Months back I posted article after article about medical marijuana and it's benefits, but how it's not real popular because it doesn't get the 'sick folks'  high. You know, those, wink wink sick folks with those hazy, questionable medical problems? Oh, someone looked at them wrong and now they're all hurt mentally and need it to make them feel better and be able to cope! Give me a break.

======
Well, I do support medical marijuana, but I said nothing about it in the post,. You need to do a little research on this herb before you discount it's ability. As far as I know, at least one pharmaceutical company uses it's ingredients in a pill - Marinol, but I guess it is for "wink, wink sick folks" ?

 

The flaw in the logic, and most other supporters, is that people only want the drug with the THC. A pill with the medicinal benefits, minus the hallucinogenic THC, isn't sought after. The reason for this is that people want to get high. Just say what you really mean.

*I removed "you" because my comment is not personal towards Seeweed.

Last edited by wright35633
Originally Posted by mad American:

What happens to money siezed from innocent people?  The PD should refund people the money siezed plus any other expenses incurred.

I couldn't agree more, though I think it should be the state instead of the local police department. Each seizure is up for judicial review. The issue the lawyer's fee. Alabama has set amount they will pay court appointed lawyers. Lawyers retained make much more money. There should be a balance, but their just isn't.

Originally Posted by Stanky:

'Weed, like Best and Bud I couldn't access your article so here's some links everyone should be able to access:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...IQAUIKVZU_story.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/042...ivil_forfeiture.html

 

http://sensiblethought.com/201...nt-danger-to-america

 

http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_f...orfeituretoemail.pdf

 

I might also note that  seizures are not just limited to the drug trade. I also doubt that LEO's on the street are the problem. Politicians with badges , city council members, mayors, and the Fed's would be on my list.

=========

No, I agree it is not the individual police officer in most cases. It is the the stupid war on drugs and the Bush1 directive that private property can be seized. This leads to corruption in the highest levels of the city , county, and state government.

 

I'll say this and then get off of my soapbox. What isn't mentioned is that most of these major cash seizures are made from cars that contain people who can't tell you the last name of the others in the car. No one has the same story as the others as to where they have been or where they are going.There is no relationship between them, but for being mules. The cash is found in hidden compartments. They happen to be traveling on routes common to drug carriers and money carriers. Drugs go in, and money goes out. I'm all for seizing that.

 

Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Weed, you keep harping on medical marijuana, and I keep posting that IS NOT what I am discussing. Months back I posted article after article about medical marijuana and it's benefits, but how it's not real popular because it doesn't get the 'sick folks'  high. You know, those, wink wink sick folks with those hazy, questionable medical problems? Oh, someone looked at them wrong and now they're all hurt mentally and need it to make them feel better and be able to cope! Give me a break.

======
Well, I do support medical marijuana, but I said nothing about it in the post,. You need to do a little research on this herb before you discount it's ability. As far as I know, at least one pharmaceutical company uses it's ingredients in a pill - Marinol, but I guess it is for "wink, wink sick folks" ?

 

The flaw in the logic, and most other supporters, is that people only want the drug with the THC. A pill with the medicinal benefits, minus the hallucinogenic THC, isn't sought after. The reason for this is that people want to get high. Just say what you really mean.

*I removed "you" because my comment is not personal towards Seeweed.

========

I appreciate that.
However, there are more problems than just whether or not people want to get high (I don't have a problem with that because I see no more difference than a person who drinks alcohol who drinks to get drunk)
Some of the other things to consider is that all of the hemp plant is illegal to grow, yet, I've been told that 1 acre of marijuana (Hemp) can produce as much paper as 4 acres of trees,, it has some of the best natural fiber of any plant to make cloth, and a number of other products.  (remember, to a great extent, our country was founded on hemp and George Washington once left a high level meeting with the French so that he "wouldn't miss the hemp harvest at Mt Vernon" - Sounds like he may have actually used some of that harvest for something personal )
And, even tho some may doubt if there is any pain relieving qualities to it, who cares ? If it kills pain either by it's chemicals , or by placebo effect, what the hell difference should it make ? If pain is relieved, why should anybody else care?  If it gives cancer patients relief from nausea, placibo or real, why would it make a differrence to anyone , even it they get high from it.
Scripture tells us about alcohol Proverbs 31:7 "Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more"
I believe we could take that to mean mj as well.

Jefferson said about what we do in private "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." 
Why can't we just let people be ?

 

What about McDonalds? The overuse of fatty fast foods by poor people contributes to their bad health then taxpayers have to pay for their healthcare.

 

 MYTH: Poor people can't afford to eat a healthy diet. I know that's BS because I am far from rich, have been even less rich, and NEVER fed myself or family on fast food. It's cheaper to eat the healthier foods. Someone asked me once if I ever 'treated' my kids to McDonalds or Burger King. I don't consider that a treat.

 

Should fast food be outlawed?

 

What about sodas? 

 

What about cigarettes?

 

If the rationale for outlawing marajuana is that the taxpayer has to pick up the tab due to abuse by people who use it then all of those things should be outlawed as well.

 

The argument about fast food, cigarettes and soda is goofy and has no place in the discussion, EXCEPT once more, if you abuse them you shouldn't come crying to others for help after you've told them to stay out of your business.

I didn't rationalize outlawing marijuana because of the cost to taxpayers. What I posted was this-

Yes, stay out of your 'private home life' UNTIL you need us for something. 

  AND one last time, those things, soda, fast food, cigarettes don't alter the person's mind, make them high, drunk, whatever you want to call it.

 

Does the benefit from the War on Drugs justify the cost? The resounding answer is no.

 

I don't know the answer to that. I'd have to guess that yes, the war on drugs benefits us, because as available as drugs are now I can only imagine what it would be like with no one trying to stop it. What qualifies you to say it doesn't work?

 

One more problem with people, Americans in particular, they all want their recreation, and immediate gratification, and if that includes drugs to alter their minds, to **** with anyone that thinks that's wrong. I've said it as many ways as I can say it, to **** with the wimps that have to be medicated for their recreation. To **** with screwed up people that don't want to face reality and want to muddle up their minds to get by.  I may have two drinks a year, maybe. Maybe none. It depends on where I am and how good they make a margarita, the mood I'm in, what I'm eating, then only one. I don't sit and drink them until I don't know I'm in the world, and then get into a car and drive home.  Oh, but that's not fun, not enough pleasure is it?

 

People talk about how they drink beer because they like the taste. Fine, if you have one, I might understand that, but to drink them all day, or have to have 'a few' every day kinda puts that liking the taste thing to lie. They want to get drunk. THAT'S the part I don't get, that having to be stoned out of their minds with something all the time. Drugs, alcohol, doing what makes them happy at any cost means more to those people than anything else, and yes, they disgust me. And given the number who seem to want that constant fogginess in their brains, it's no wonder we're a country of push overs.

Last edited by Bestworking

@Seeweed ... one reason is that society deems it illegal. For the record, I support medicinal marijuana. If it heals and eases pain, it should be explored as an alternative to manufactured chemicals. The choice isn't popular among recreational users, because of the lack of THC in the pills to which you referred earlier. I simply meant that recreational users shouldn't harp on the benefits of medicinal uses just to piggyback it for the legalization of recreational drugs. In an inhaled form, the negative health costs are great. It really is an issue to be settled nationally, or at least on a state government level. We are a democracy, and we need to remain one. There are a lot of things our society does that i don't like, but if the majority is in favor, I have to move on until change takes place.

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by Stanky:

'Weed, like Best and Bud I couldn't access your article so here's some links everyone should be able to access:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...IQAUIKVZU_story.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/042...ivil_forfeiture.html

 

http://sensiblethought.com/201...nt-danger-to-america

 

http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_f...orfeituretoemail.pdf

 

I might also note that  seizures are not just limited to the drug trade. I also doubt that LEO's on the street are the problem. Politicians with badges , city council members, mayors, and the Fed's would be on my list.

=========

No, I agree it is not the individual police officer in most cases. It is the the stupid war on drugs and the Bush1 directive that private property can be seized. This leads to corruption in the highest levels of the city , county, and state government.

 

______________________________________________________________

 

The seizure of property supposedly used in crime or bought using money earned by illegal means predate the first Bush, and I don't object to those seizures if conducted properly. I also suspect that law enforcement seizures are piddling  compared to the IRS.

 

But now, the increasingly popular Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration reveals that 30% of IRS Seizures of Taxpayer Property don’t comply with the law. The report has an inglorious title but is worth a look: Fiscal Year 2013 Review of Compliance With Legal Guidelines When Conducting Seizures of Taxpayers’ Property.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ro...ment-report-reveals/


Marijuana stops child's severe seizures

 

Running out of options, doctors put Charlotte on a ketogenic diet that is frequently used to treat epilepsy. The diet helped but had a lot of side effects. Young reported, “Charlotte suffered from bone loss, her immune system plummeted, and new behavioral problems started popping up.” Two years later, the seizures came back and by three, Charlotte was having up to 300 grand mal seizures a week. She had lost the ability to walk, talk and eat.

Desperate for a treatment, Charlotte’s father Matt searched the Internet and eventually found a boy with a similar case in which medical marijuana helped his seizures. The Figi’s turned to the Stanley brothers, one of Colorado's largest marijuana growers and dispensary owners, for help.

“These six brothers were crossbreeding a strain of marijuana low in THC, the compound in marijuana that's psychoactive, and high in CBD, which has medicinal properties but no psychoactivity,” writes Young. But the Stanley brothers didn't know what to do with this particular strain, as no one seemed to want to buy it. Then they met Charlotte.

===========================

No one seemed to want it. Because it wouldn't get them high. 

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/h...#MjzOC5uJiPiMzdkx.99

 

 

 

A New Marijuana Plant Without the High? It Could Be Good Medicine

The new medical marijuana plant, developed by Israeli researchers, holds promise for treating conditions like anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and Alzheimer's disease — without causing the munchies.

 

 

The Internet is buzzing about a new breed of marijuana that apparently causes no buzz of its own. Israeli researchers have bred cannabis plants that look, smell and taste like ordinary marijuana — but lack THC, the active ingredient responsible for the spacy, giddy and sometimes hallucinatory part of pot’s high.

What’s the point of weed that doesn’t get you high, you ask? The new product could potentially fight conditions ranging from schizophrenia to Alzheimer’s disease.

The new marijuana isn’t just low-THC ditch weed or hemp by a different name. Tzahi Klein of the Israeli company Tikkun Olam and his colleagues have created a strain of pot that lacks THC but is abundant in cannabidiol (CBD), typically the second most common active compound in cannabis.

“It has the same scent, shape and taste as the original plant — it’s all the same — but the numbing sensation that users are accustomed to has disappeared,” Klein told the Israeli paper Maariv. He said that many patients in his studies felt “tricked” because they thought they’d been given a placebo when they smoked it.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/201...icine/#ixzz2cdf3tC3D

Originally Posted by wright35633:

@Seeweed ... one reason is that society deems it illegal. For the record, I support medicinal marijuana. If it heals and eases pain, it should be explored as an alternative to manufactured chemicals. The choice isn't popular among recreational users, because of the lack of THC in the pills to which you referred earlier. I simply meant that recreational users shouldn't harp on the benefits of medicinal uses just to piggyback it for the legalization of recreational drugs. In an inhaled form, the negative health costs are great. It really is an issue to be settled nationally, or at least on a state government level. We are a democracy, and we need to remain one. There are a lot of things our society does that i don't like, but if the majority is in favor, I have to move on until change takes place.

====

I tend to think that the old stiff politicians have not caught up with "society" . Turns out 58% of people people want it made legal, and 39% want it kept illegal. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165...izing-marijuana.aspx
Personally, I just want it de-criminalized. The state of Mississippi legislature has made it a non criminal offense, just a misdemeanor because they got tired of seeing the names of their own children on a criminal list  for posession. Really !.
I think that on average it cost about $40k a year to keep a person in prison, and we are the most imprisoned nation ever , and I think most of that is drug related.
While I do support efforts to keep the hard core criminal locked up, there are an estimated 41,000 people in prison on marijuana charges.

From SocialMedicine.org

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.”

Now, I realize that besides the sanction stealing of personal property, there are other monied interest at work here, namely the private prison industrial complex who would probably be happy  if possession of aspirin was illegal, more prisoners, more money for them.
However, imprisoning a person for mj seems like kind of a misuse of public funds as the only crime these people commit is possession or use of a substance deemed illegal for no real reason.
So, if those figures are close to correct, that means we are spending(wasting) over $1.6B a year that could go toward more productive things, like schools..
Oh well, just my rantings

 

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by wright35633:

@Seeweed ... one reason is that society deems it illegal. For the record, I support medicinal marijuana. If it heals and eases pain, it should be explored as an alternative to manufactured chemicals. The choice isn't popular among recreational users, because of the lack of THC in the pills to which you referred earlier. I simply meant that recreational users shouldn't harp on the benefits of medicinal uses just to piggyback it for the legalization of recreational drugs. In an inhaled form, the negative health costs are great. It really is an issue to be settled nationally, or at least on a state government level. We are a democracy, and we need to remain one. There are a lot of things our society does that i don't like, but if the majority is in favor, I have to move on until change takes place.

====

I tend to think that the old stiff politicians have not caught up with "society" . Turns out 58% of people people want it made legal, and 39% want it kept illegal. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165...izing-marijuana.aspx
Personally, I just want it de-criminalized. The state of Mississippi legislature has made it a non criminal offense, just a misdemeanor because they got tired of seeing the names of their own children on a criminal list  for posession. Really !.
I think that on average it cost about $40k a year to keep a person in prison, and we are the most imprisoned nation ever , and I think most of that is drug related.
While I do support efforts to keep the hard core criminal locked up, there are an estimated 41,000 people in prison on marijuana charges.

From SocialMedicine.org

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.”

Now, I realize that besides the sanction stealing of personal property, there are other monied interest at work here, namely the private prison industrial complex who would probably be happy  if possession of aspirin was illegal, more prisoners, more money for them.
However, imprisoning a person for mj seems like kind of a misuse of public funds as the only crime these people commit is possession or use of a substance deemed illegal for no real reason.
So, if those figures are close to correct, that means we are spending(wasting) over $1.6B a year that could go toward more productive things, like schools..
Oh well, just my rantings

 

___________________________________________________________

My views on marijuana are fairly libertarian. Let it be legalized, first in in the states to see how they are affected.  Then, federal regulations may be changed.

 

However, your posts do not help support you, especially, when shaky statistics and sources are shown.

 

Your post:

"The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.”"

 

Clicking on the hyperlink Marijuana Policy Project notes yields

http://www.mpp.org/assets/pdfs...ProhibFacts_0109.pdf

 

which page shows:

 

File Not Found

Sorry, the requested page was not found. Please try again.

Original URI: /assets/pdfs/download-materials/MJ_ProhibFacts_0109.pdf

 

Using a search engine against the claim

"In 2007 the Department of Justice reported that there were 1,841,182 drug arrests in the United States; the report noted that there were  more drug abuse arrests than any other category of offenses." yields mostly blogs quoting the same sentence.  At best, i found the following link at one blog

 

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/about/index.html

 

which yields

 

 

 

You have made claims of massive arrests and great prisons hold tens of thousands for somple marijuana possession, guarded by mercenary security guard battalions. 

 

Sorry, your claims look like those claiming FEMA prison camps and trains taking thousands to such camps at midnight. 

Marijuana Policy Project notes

 

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by wright35633:

@Seeweed ... one reason is that society deems it illegal. For the record, I support medicinal marijuana. If it heals and eases pain, it should be explored as an alternative to manufactured chemicals. The choice isn't popular among recreational users, because of the lack of THC in the pills to which you referred earlier. I simply meant that recreational users shouldn't harp on the benefits of medicinal uses just to piggyback it for the legalization of recreational drugs. In an inhaled form, the negative health costs are great. It really is an issue to be settled nationally, or at least on a state government level. We are a democracy, and we need to remain one. There are a lot of things our society does that i don't like, but if the majority is in favor, I have to move on until change takes place.

====

I tend to think that the old stiff politicians have not caught up with "society" . Turns out 58% of people people want it made legal, and 39% want it kept illegal. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165...izing-marijuana.aspx
Personally, I just want it de-criminalized. The state of Mississippi legislature has made it a non criminal offense, just a misdemeanor because they got tired of seeing the names of their own children on a criminal list  for posession. Really !.
I think that on average it cost about $40k a year to keep a person in prison, and we are the most imprisoned nation ever , and I think most of that is drug related.
While I do support efforts to keep the hard core criminal locked up, there are an estimated 41,000 people in prison on marijuana charges.

From SocialMedicine.org

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.”

Now, I realize that besides the sanction stealing of personal property, there are other monied interest at work here, namely the private prison industrial complex who would probably be happy  if possession of aspirin was illegal, more prisoners, more money for them.
However, imprisoning a person for mj seems like kind of a misuse of public funds as the only crime these people commit is possession or use of a substance deemed illegal for no real reason.
So, if those figures are close to correct, that means we are spending(wasting) over $1.6B a year that could go toward more productive things, like schools..
Oh well, just my rantings

+++

 

Bottom line ...  blame it on the cops.

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Have you ever saw what happens to a car that the police search. It gets demolished and they don't have to put it back togather. The cops should be forced to pay for it. Somewhere they may have to, in my hometown, they haven't.

Not every car is done this way. Be fair about it. Departments are held liable for damages if nothing is seized. They document it in the event the owner wishes action.

To be fair I should be able to travel with legal money without fear that law enforcement will seize it without any legal proof of criminal intent.  BTW I was a LEO before you start.  Also, having to go to court in some town far away during the week to prove I was on my way to buy a classic car not drugs is not reasonable.  Regardless remember even if you have nothing to hide never let your car be searched without reason.

HF, I thoroughly agree.  The problem with all of this search and seizure crap is that you are supposed to be "considered innocent until proven guilty".  yet, you get your property seized, you have to hire a lawyer and pay them exhorbitant amounts of money to defend yourself and get your property back.  In the end, you may win the case, but the only person coming out ahead is the lawyer who just collected part of your income for helping you get back what was legally yours to being with. The system is definitely broken. the problem we have is that most of these laws are written by and controlled by lawyers, who serve in their own best interests.

 
Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:
Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Have you ever saw what happens to a car that the police search. It gets demolished and they don't have to put it back togather. The cops should be forced to pay for it. Somewhere they may have to, in my hometown, they haven't.

Not every car is done this way. Be fair about it. Departments are held liable for damages if nothing is seized. They document it in the event the owner wishes action.

To be fair I should be able to travel with legal money without fear that law enforcement will seize it without any legal proof of criminal intent.  BTW I was a LEO before you start.  Also, having to go to court in some town far away during the week to prove I was on my way to buy a classic car not drugs is not reasonable.  Regardless remember even if you have nothing to hide never let your car be searched without reason.

 

+++

 

HF, let's follow-up on that you're a "former LEO" thing.  Care to elaborate on the  "reason" [probable cause] why you were stopped in the first place which gave rise why you were asked permission to search your vehicle?

 

Being a former LEO myself, I'm sure you can appreciate my curiosity.

 

Thanks.

 

Last edited by budsfarm

What does the pro-marijuana group think of cocaine, meth, heroin, bath salts, and other drugs that people use? Not comparing the drugs, asking where they think the line should be drawn, or if it even should be drawn.  How about spice? The last two to three weeks there have been two reported cases, that I know of, I'm sure there are more, of multiple murders by people under the influence of spice. Of course they had histories of using/abusing other things too, and not being mentally stable. Reports say spice is very dangerous, easy to get, and legal in some places.

http://www.today.com/health/sy...-drug-can-1D80058128

 

Last edited by Bestworking

I get confused too, about people wanting to end the war on drugs. What does that mean exactly? Do you want things like this overlooked?

 

 

 

Traffickers sold tacos with a 'side of meth': Colorado prosecutors

http://news.yahoo.com/traffick...utors-194901344.html

DENVER (Reuters) - Authorities in Colorado broke up a drug trafficking ring and seized 55 pounds of methamphetamine, ending what prosecutors said on Monday was an audacious network that involved a food truck selling tacos "with a side of meth."

          The state's Attorney General John Suthers said a five-week operation using five wiretaps led to one of the biggest meth busts in Colorado history, and to the dismantling of a group that was importing the drug from Mexico via California.

          "The brazenness of this ring was astounding. For example, customers could literally walk up to a food truck and order a side of meth with their taco," Suthers said in a statement.

          According to court documents, Juan Carlos Gonzalez, 37, would distribute the drug to members of the network for sale, including a 39-year-old woman accused of hawking it from a taco trailer at a busy intersection southwest of downtown Denver.

          Gonzalez and 16 other people were indicted on charges including possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance, violations of Colorado's anti-organized crime laws, conspiracy, money laundering, and tax evasion, officials said.

          The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, which worked with state law enforcement agencies, said guns, money and record amounts of meth were seized, including 55 pounds discovered hidden in the floor of a car driven by one of the suspects.

          (Reporting by Daniel Wallis; Editing by Cynthia Johnston and Doina Chiacu)

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:
Originally Posted by wright35633:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Have you ever saw what happens to a car that the police search. It gets demolished and they don't have to put it back togather. The cops should be forced to pay for it. Somewhere they may have to, in my hometown, they haven't.

Not every car is done this way. Be fair about it. Departments are held liable for damages if nothing is seized. They document it in the event the owner wishes action.

To be fair I should be able to travel with legal money without fear that law enforcement will seize it without any legal proof of criminal intent.  BTW I was a LEO before you start.  Also, having to go to court in some town far away during the week to prove I was on my way to buy a classic car not drugs is not reasonable.  Regardless remember even if you have nothing to hide never let your car be searched without reason.

 

+++

 

HF, let's follow-up on that you're a "former LEO" thing.  Care to elaborate on the  "reason" [probable cause] why you were stopped in the first place which gave rise why you were asked permission to search your vehicle?

 

Being a former LEO myself, I'm sure you can appreciate my curiosity.

 

Thanks.

 

Trained at FLETC in Artesia worked for the FAM's is that good enough for you? how about you?  Never said it happened to me.   But I have been asked to search my vehicle during a "safety" check on 72 several times during the summer months of the year.  You know the ones where they stop everybody checking for license and insurance.

Last edited by HIFLYER2
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I get confused too, about people wanting to end the war on drugs. What does that mean exactly? Do you want things like this overlooked?

 

 

 

I will answer that:

1> End the oversite of how doctors write scripts and  allow doctors to write scripts for addicts for H, C, or whatever.

2> Make those drugs available in drug stores (Most of those drugs are extremely cheap - what makes them expensive is the "street value" to support a criminal chain of distribution)

3> Decriminalize marijuana altogether.

For sure there would be some who would abuse the system, but , doing just those three things could end a lot of street crime virtually overnight. For example, most addicts are actually able to hold down productive jobs, but because of the street value of the drugs they get addicted to, they have to resort to crime in order to support that habit. Were they allowed to obtain them legally , at low prices , there would be no need for them to resort to a life of crime to support that habit.
This has already been tried in Portugal, (and I believe some other countries) and the result over time was: street crime vanished almost overnight, the percentage ofo people becoming addicted went way down (no more people with a Mr T starter set of bling out in the park trying to get the kids hooked ).
And , as Columbo used to say "One more thing" , put paregoric and decent cough medicine back avaliable without a script from a pharmacist. For goodness sake , let us be able to  teethe our children , and stop diarrhea , and be able to quite a cough in a sensible way.

Prohibition didn't work in the 20s and it just isn't working now.

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by wright35633:

@Seeweed ... one reason is that society deems it illegal. For the record, I support medicinal marijuana. If it heals and eases pain, it should be explored as an alternative to manufactured chemicals. The choice isn't popular among recreational users, because of the lack of THC in the pills to which you referred earlier. I simply meant that recreational users shouldn't harp on the benefits of medicinal uses just to piggyback it for the legalization of recreational drugs. In an inhaled form, the negative health costs are great. It really is an issue to be settled nationally, or at least on a state government level. We are a democracy, and we need to remain one. There are a lot of things our society does that i don't like, but if the majority is in favor, I have to move on until change takes place.

====

I tend to think that the old stiff politicians have not caught up with "society" . Turns out 58% of people people want it made legal, and 39% want it kept illegal. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165...izing-marijuana.aspx
Personally, I just want it de-criminalized. The state of Mississippi legislature has made it a non criminal offense, just a misdemeanor because they got tired of seeing the names of their own children on a criminal list  for posession. Really !.
I think that on average it cost about $40k a year to keep a person in prison, and we are the most imprisoned nation ever , and I think most of that is drug related.
While I do support efforts to keep the hard core criminal locked up, there are an estimated 41,000 people in prison on marijuana charges.

From SocialMedicine.org

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.”

Now, I realize that besides the sanction stealing of personal property, there are other monied interest at work here, namely the private prison industrial complex who would probably be happy  if possession of aspirin was illegal, more prisoners, more money for them.
However, imprisoning a person for mj seems like kind of a misuse of public funds as the only crime these people commit is possession or use of a substance deemed illegal for no real reason.
So, if those figures are close to correct, that means we are spending(wasting) over $1.6B a year that could go toward more productive things, like schools..
Oh well, just my rantings

+++

 

Bottom line ...  blame it on the cops.

 

 

 

 

No, blame it on corrupt police  department heads.

1> End the oversite of how doctors write scripts and  allow doctors to write scripts for addicts for H, C, or whatever.

2> Make those drugs available in drug stores (Most of those drugs are extremely cheap - what makes them expensive is the "street value" to support a criminal chain of distribution)

 

-------------------

Insane.

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