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I am 15 minutes into a one sided "documentary" by Tom Brokaw on NBC on illegal immigrants and aside from the tired old line "Americans would not perform the work these illegals perform", they are showing illegals who are working in Colorado digging ditches making $14.00 an hour. I don't know about the rest of you, but how many jobs are there in "The Shoals" where you can make $14.00 an hour, and how many citizens here dig ditches or worse for minimum wage or barely more? I would be glad to sneek into Colorado and make $1000.00 a week and send some money back to "The Shoals" That is what this area is coming to.
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I watched the same documentary and do agree that $14 a hour for unskilled labor does seem like a lot. However, factor in the cost of living and I'm sure $14 an hour is probably the equivalent of $8 a hour in the Shoals.

Also, digging ditches for 5 years probably puts about 20 years on your life. I have to remind myself of that when I hear the trucker commercials advertising that some of them make 60+ k a year.
quote:
Originally posted by �bermensch:
I watched the same documentary and do agree that $14 a hour for unskilled labor does seem like a lot. However, factor in the cost of living and I'm sure $14 an hour is probably the equivalent of $8 a hour in the Shoals.

Also, digging ditches for 5 years probably puts about 20 years on your life. I have to remind myself of that when I hear the trucker commercials advertising that some of them make 60+ k a year.


Uber has a good point. Factor in the Cost of Living here to almost anywhere else, and you would have to make at least $30 an hour to make it, at least... here in the Shoals, people may not make a HIGH scale, but we do have some good schools, GREAT people, and a lower cost of living.

In a Republican Era, what more could anyone ask for??? Big Grin
Kindred, you really hit a "sore" spot with me on that "cost of living" argument. Believe me, you have been brainwashed! That is SEDA's excuse and was their excuse when they got Walgreens Call Center here for 2 million incentives and ended up paying employees $8.00 an hour for the same work that they pay the CSR's in Orlando at $14.00 an hour. Well, check the REAL facts. Does Walmart charge less in the Shoals? What about restaurants? What about gas? Do vehicles cost less because they are being sold in the Shoals? Is electricity or gas for home heating cheaper in the Shoals? NO NO NO! THE ONLY THING CHEAPER IN THE SHOALS is REAL ESTATE! And that is gradually creeping up at a much faster rate than the average pay. Don't be fooled! The "powers that be" use this logic to keep people ignorant and unknowing that they are being abused, mainly because they know most citizens that are born and raised here and remain have never lived anywhere else. I for one have lived in SEVERAL other cities in different areas of the US and believe me, it actually COSTS MORE to live in the Shoals on the wages paid than it does in other areas such as Atlanta, Birmingham and Kansas City, Mo.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
Kindred, you really hit a "sore" spot with me on that "cost of living" argument. Believe me, you have been brainwashed! That is SEDA's excuse and was their excuse when they got Walgreens Call Center here for 2 million incentives and ended up paying employees $8.00 an hour for the same work that they pay the CSR's in Orlando at $14.00 an hour. Well, check the REAL facts. Does Walmart charge less in the Shoals? What about restaurants? What about gas? Do vehicles cost less because they are being sold in the Shoals? Is electricity or gas for home heating cheaper in the Shoals? NO NO NO! THE ONLY THING CHEAPER IN THE SHOALS is REAL ESTATE! And that is gradually creeping up at a much faster rate than the average pay. Don't be fooled! The "powers that be" use this logic to keep people ignorant and unknowing that they are being abused, mainly because they know most citizens that are born and raised here and remain have never lived anywhere else. I for one have lived in SEVERAL other cities in different areas of the US and believe me, it actually COSTS MORE to live in the Shoals on the wages paid than it does in other areas such as Atlanta, Birmingham and Kansas City, Mo.


I was in KS, Missouri in Sept, and the cost of groceries, resturants, and gasoline was far higher than here... far higher. We went to a resturant one night, and just a hamburger and fries were over 14 dollars, and they were NO different than Hardees big burger... And the house my friend and her hubby lives in has a market value of 117,000, WAY higher than here for the house they live in. Here it would be doing good to be close to 50,000.

I think we do have it lucky in a lot of ways, but sadly, I have to concede this one, you are right, things ARE creeping up, slowly so we get aclimated to it and it no longer bothers us... that is the way they do it...

Its like with Coffee and Candy bars, way back when they had already risen the prices to the limit, what did they do? They just started making everything SMALLER.... when one USED to buy coffee, it was indeed a POUND instead of the 13 ounces now.... sheeesh, they REALLY think we are stupid and THAT is what hits a sour note with me.
Well Kindred, of course there are fine eating establishments in KC and other cities where you would pay more for a meal. My point was not about fine restaurants: In KC a Big Mac is the same price as one at a McDonalds on Woodward Ave. And to the other poster, yes rents are higher, I made that point in my statement BUT if you compare rental and housing markets ONLY that is the ONE difference which does not justify the income per capita difference this area has, and both of you are using the logic I was talking about that is programmed in! WalMart in KC has a STARTING salary for stockers of $9.50 per hour, WalMart in Florence, $5.50. Do you pay LESS for the same merchandise in the Shoals? I hope you get my point.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
Well Kindred, of course there are fine eating establishments in KC and other cities where you would pay more for a meal. My point was not about fine restaurants: In KC a Big Mac is the same price as one at a McDonalds on Woodward Ave. And to the other poster, yes rents are higher, I made that point in my statement BUT if you compare rental and housing markets ONLY that is the ONE difference which does not justify the income per capita difference this area has, and both of you are using the logic I was talking about that is programmed in! WalMart in KC has a STARTING salary for stockers of $9.50 per hour, WalMart in Florence, $5.50. Do you pay LESS for the same merchandise in the Shoals? I hope you get my point.


Got it... Wink
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
I am 15 minutes into a one sided "documentary" by Tom Brokaw on NBC on illegal immigrants and aside from the tired old line "Americans would not perform the work these illegals perform", they are showing illegals who are working in Colorado digging ditches making $14.00 an hour. I don't know about the rest of you, but how many jobs are there in "The Shoals" where you can make $14.00 an hour, and how many citizens here dig ditches or worse for minimum wage or barely more? I would be glad to sneek into Colorado and make $1000.00 a week and send some money back to "The Shoals" That is what this area is coming to.


I wonder how many weeks out of the year one can dig ditches in Colorado?
The Shoals area definitely need jobs brought in that has a base pay rate that is higher. I have been a resident of the Shoals are until a year and a half ago when I moved to Charleston, SC. I have traveled somewhat around the US and I have found that the cost of living in the North Alabama and Southern Tennessee area is lower than most places. Job pay is lower, fuel is lower, land and housing is lower and taxes are lower. Where I am a $140k home sitting on less than an acre of land could be bought in the Shoals for $80-90k. But the cost of living is somewhat higher here, but the pay isn't that much better. Taxes on everything is a lot higher, fuel, land, and yes, some things in Walmart is higher than back home. The Shoals definitely need a couple of big businesses to bring higher paying jobs into the area. But you also have to remember that 20 years ago, the area wasn't nearly what it is now. It is progressing...slowly...but is progressing.
It seems like I am spitting in the wind, but I am going to try one more time. How can retail taxes be higher? We already pay 8%. Gas may be a little higher in some parts of the country, but we would be 2 cents less if we weren't giving it to Bronner and company. Food? Alabama is one of the few states left that TAX groceries. I still stand by my "indoctrination" theory. If you are trying to exist here and hang on to any symblance of being "middle class", it is VERY costly to live in the Shoals on the wages paid. And I still wonder why some enterprising reporter at the TD hasn't done a story on the income to debt ratio in this area. I notice that plastic flies out everywhere when I am shopping or eating out. I think most citizens are desperately in debt and living from paycheck to paycheck. Look at all the payday loan places!
Retail taxes? Taxes period. Here is SC taxes are outrageous. When we renew our tags, I pay 4-6 times what I paid in Florence. Insurance here is so high it doesn't even bear mentioning....I break out in hives when I think about it. Yes just about everything is higher here than in north AL.

MADDOG, maybe the plastic flies so freely nowdays because of technology. I'm sure you have heard of this "new" thing called Direct Deposit. More and more people are going to direct deposit and never have to go to the bank. In my family's case, because me and hubby have payroll direct deposited, we use debit 98% of the time when we go out. Our debt has not increased since it coems directly out of checking, and we don't live from paycheck to paycheck. Payday loan places, IMO are equal to loan sharks.
A friend of mine runs a construction company in the Shoals area and can't find heavy equipment operators at $22 an hour plus benefits.

Property taxes and income taxes are much lower in Alabama. Property taxes on the east coast are easily 10 times as much. Income tax is a couple of percent less in Alabama.

And, yes those payday and car loan places are blights on the landscape. You may thank your state legislators for letting them jackup the interest so high. Lobbyist really pay them well. And, I'm a Republican.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
I am 15 minutes into a one sided "documentary" by Tom Brokaw on NBC on illegal immigrants and aside from the tired old line "Americans would not perform the work these illegals perform", they are showing illegals who are working in Colorado digging ditches making $14.00 an hour. I don't know about the rest of you, but how many jobs are there in "The Shoals" where you can make $14.00 an hour, and how many citizens here dig ditches or worse for minimum wage or barely more? I would be glad to sneek into Colorado and make $1000.00 a week and send some money back to "The Shoals" That is what this area is coming to.


Good Point! I agree! glad you woke up!
Saying that illegals do the work that Americans won't do is an insult to all Americans, past and present. Just read about the Great Depression about how Americans were desperate for any kind of job just to feed their families. My great-grandfather had a lumber mill in Lauderdale Co. He employed several men at 50 cents a day. These weren't 8 hour days, they were sun up to sun down days. It was hard and dangerous work, one man was killed. They did the work because it fed their families.

Americans will work any job if they can feed their families with the wages. The problem is, illegals work for less than what Americans can live on. Under normal circumstances, if an employer didn't pay enough to find someone to do the work, they would have to raise the wages. With illegals short circuiting the system, the wages stay low, Americans are unemployed, and illegals are coming here in droves. If you want higher wages, get the illegals out and let the economy run as it's supposed to.

If I made more money than I do now digging ditches, I'd grab a shovel in a heartbeat. It's nothing I haven't done before. So the whole "Americans won't do those jobs" is total bull****.
Last edited by Former Member
Pardon me NashBama. But that is a crock of bull****. There are plenty of Americans out here that had rather go on food stamps and fake disability than hold down an honest job. Americans have always tried to cicumvent the system to try to find an easy way to have something for nothing. By that I mean, that want and actually get not only necessities, but live better than some due to the fact they find ways to pbtain food stamps and government help by fraudulent means. These people are the ones that you should be mad at. You support them and their life style with your tax dollars. In my book if an illegal is working so he/she may have a better life for their family, good for them. The Americans that are able bodied and living off others...put them out on the sides of the road or somewhere to dig ditches and do some manual labor for once in their life and quit sponging off the working folks.

Enough said by me......for the moment anyway.
Last edited by Former Member
The crock of bull**** is thinking illegals are helping the system. The reason those people would rather live off the government than hold down a job is because it pays better. Why work your butt off for what an illegal makes when the government will house you, feed you, and give you spending money to sit on your butt. I agree that welfare system needs to be fixed, but letting illegals come in just traps those people where they are. Getting rid of illegals will bring wages up. Reform welfare so it's a helping hand and not a hand out and you'll see these people get back to work. Poverty is a great motivator.
Last edited by Former Member
NANCY PELOSI IS THE WORST

VDARE.COM contributor Don Collins recently pointed out (despite being a Democrat, ) that Pelosi ranks dead last in Congressional immigration voting. Hence Pelosi’s combined F-/F grade at Americans for Better Immigration for both her career and her most recent immigration votes.

More grating is that Pelosi has consistently flaunted her open-borders bias even when the smarter course would be for her to remain silent…or at least subdued.

Even her peers consider Pelosi a blabbermouth, according to a recent Time magazine article, " Anyone Knows Not To Mess With Me." [ By Perry Bacon Jr, September 4, 2006]

Who can forget that in 2003 Pelosi went to bat for Mexico, illegal immigrants and Wal-Mart all in one statement? In response to alien round-ups at the retail giant, she said that the "terrorizing raids" would end when workers in all sectors of the economy were legalized.

The kicker: Pelosi delivered her remarks from Mexico. She was there sucking up to President Vicente Fox, along with a team of like-minded Congressional colleagues Representatives: David Hobson (R-OH); Ciro Rodriguez (D-TX), Chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus; Sam Farr (D-CA); Hilda Solis (D-CA); and Linda Sanchez (D-CA)!

But the complete Pelosi story is even uglier.


Pelosi sits near the top of the list of wealthy Congressmen. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Pelosi and her husband have amassed a fortune approaching $55 million—much of it from real estate development and Napa Valley vineyard ownership. (Take a few moments to peruse the C.R.P. list to find out how much money your local representatives have in the bank.)

And it is a near certainty that part of her and her husband’s wealth is derived from illegal immigrant labor. Their vineyards use non-union labor to pick grapes and sell those grapes to non-union wineries
quote:
"The reason those people would rather live off the government than hold down a job is because it pays better. Why work your butt off for what an illegal makes when the government will house you, feed you, and give you spending money to sit on your butt."

Nashbama, illegals had rather work for a living...good pay or poor pay... that is something that is instilled in them (whatever culture). Our society of Americans have forgotten the satisfaction that comes from a job well done. Too many of us "Americans" had rather have everything given to us on a silver platter without having to work for it. Sure, there are jobs that don't pay crap....but honest work is honest work. Jobs that take a little (or lot) or sweat and muscle are out there also...just like gravey-train jobs, office positions, etc. Jobs are out there. Welfare has become a hand out because people find it is easier....the recipients and the welfare workers. Poverity isn't always the motivator nor a way out. It is a chosen life style by many who refuse to give up the "something for nothing" lifestyle.
I know they work hard for a living, that's not the point. They are here illegally and undercutting American workers. Not all of them are here to work, just look at the state trooper who was killed by illegals, look at the influx of members of the gang MS-13. This is a serious problem that will just get worse unless we crack down on those who hire illegals. Take away the jobs, the housing, the benefits, and they'll go back home. They can come in the legal way and enjoy everything America has to offer.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I know they work hard for a living, that's not the point. They are here illegally and undercutting American workers. Not all of them are here to work, just look at the state trooper who was killed by illegals, look at the influx of members of the gang MS-13. This is a serious problem that will just get worse unless we crack down on those who hire illegals. Take away the jobs, the housing, the benefits, and they'll go back home. They can come in the legal way and enjoy everything America has to offer.


I agree!
The cost of living argument is over exaggerated. While in most cases it is cheaper to live in the Shoals, the difference is not as profound as most people think. An $8.00 per hour job in Florence is equal to a $10.68 per hour job in Denver, a $15.00 per hour job in Los Angeles, and a $17.50 per hour job in New York. But you also have to factor in personal tastes. I would a whole lot rather have an $8.00 per hour job in Florence than a $17.50 per hour job in New York. Big Grin
http://www.bestplaces.net/col/
WEll Midknighter, I THINK you got my point, especially about there only being a $2.68 difference in the cost of living between The Shoals and Denver. Look at the opportunity in Denver! That is what I was originally TRYING to make everyone see! That is SEDA's same lame line they have been spewing for their incompetence in bringing jobs to the area and companies in this area's excuse for keeping wages and salaries low for YEARS now. It would cost SO much more to live somewhere else. What is the unemployment rate, or better still the UNDERemployment rate in Denver? Is it worth $2.68? People in this area do not know the truth for several reasons: some of which are the "leaders" in this area want the workforce ignorant and staying poor, another is the TD refuses to do it's job and LET the public KNOW what the actual cost of living is in the Shoals and lastly, citizens in the Shoals are apathetic and will not DEMAND accountability from their elected leaders and organizations like SEDA BUT continue to do what they are told, when they are told and for the amount of money they can get without question. THE DOG
There are some jobs performed by illegals that most Americans just will not do. But they are very few. The point Dog was trying to make, I think, is that there really are a lot of resources in our area. And it seems as if the local govt. doesn't and hasn't ever tried to exploit them in a proper way. No major factories e.g. And thats just one of many examples. And the cost of living in the Shoals IS one the rise, but going slowly. If anyone truly believes that there a good amount of jobs in the area, just read the help wanted ads in this paper and then drive by the unemployment office in any city. A lot of people just try and stick it out in the Shoals b/c they were born and raised there and want to live in a place they love. We really need a major change. I am certainly no expert in this area, but we do pay people for this right?
The best example of how we stack up is this. My late wife was born in New Jersey. So there are quite a number of her family still there.
About 2 years ago I was able to go up and visit. The subject of taxes came up and I almost died when they started telling me how much the property taxes they pay. My niece's house is very nice, but nothing you wouldn't see in say Kendale Gardens. Guess what they pay in property taxes every year? ' gulp' it's hard to swallow but 2 years ago it was 12,000 a year. Yep, you read it right 12 grand a year. When I heard that I was speachless. Then some of their friends started telling what they had to pay. Now these are just middle class working people, no wonder that Fl. is full of Jersey retired folks.
You could buy a wonderful home here for what they pay in taxes.
let us be thankful for what we have, and hope the Gov. does not continue his current agenda.
Last edited by themax

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