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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

While I realize that Vic has posted a similar discussion on the News Forum -- I believe this belongs on the Religion Forum.   Every time a Christian writes in a post about homosexual activism; many will scream, "They are not being activists!  They are just  demanding their rights!"   

Well, what is this all about?  The homosexual community has a strong dislike for the Christian community -- yet, they want to work in Christian organizations?  Why?  There can only be one answer.  They want to disrupt what the Christian organization is sharing, teaching, and doing in the name of God.

If there is a particular ethnic food that I cannot stand to smell -- I most certainly would not demand to be allowed to work in that restaurant.  As a matter of fact, I hate cooking -- so, you can be assured that I will never boycott anyone for not allowing me to cook.

So, why does the homosexual community want to work in a Christian organization when that Christian organization tells them that their lifestyle is against the Written Word of God?   They want to destroy the Word of God.  That is the short and sweet answer, the only answer which possibly fits.


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LGBT Groups Boycott Salvation Army's Red Kettles

By Brittany Smith | Christian Post Reporter

http://www.christianpost.com/n...s-red-kettles-63241/

 

The Salvation Army red kettles that sit outside storefronts during the Christmas season are causing some g-a-y groups to see red.  LGBT (lesbian, g-a-y, bisexual, transgender) activists are calling for a boycott of the Salvation Army’s annual red kettle drive because of its stance on homosexuality.

Bil Browning, writing on the LGBQT blog The Bilerico Project, said, “As the holidays approach, the Salvation Army bell ringers are out in front of stores dunning shoppers for donations.  If you care about g-a-y rights, you'll skip their bucket in favor of a charity that doesn't actively discriminate against the LGBT community.  The Salvation Army has a history of active discrimination against g-a-ys and les-bians.”

Meanwhile, a Facebook page called “Boycott The Salvation Army” now has over 2,000 likes.  The description of the page reads, “The Salvation Army is not only a charity, but an evangelical church promoting conservative Christianity and anti-g a y politics.”

But Maj. George Hood, national community relations secretary for the Salvation Army, addressed the LGBT groups’ accusations of  discrimination.  He said the disagreement between the Salvation Army and g-a-y activist groups comes down to theology.

“The Salvation Army and the g-a-y community are never going to come to an agreement on the topic,” Hood told The Christian Post on Monday.

He went on to say that the Salvation Army will not change its beliefs about theological issues any more than g-a-y groups would change their views.

Andy Thayer, co-founder of Chicago-based G-a-y Liberation Network, explained to The Christian Post in an email today why his group was participating in the boycott. "We urge people to boycott the Salvation Army and instead give to non-sectarian agencies -- because it uses its selective interpretation of the Bible to promote discrimination against LGBT people in employment benefits and leadership positions within the Army,” he wrote.

The Salvation Army’s stance on homosexuality is stated on its web site.  It says the group holds a positive view of human sexuality:  “Sexual intimacy is understood as a gift of God to be enjoyed within the context of heterosexual marriage.  However, in the Christian view, sexual intimacy is not essential to a healthy, full, and rich life.  Apart from marriage, the scriptural standard is celibacy.”

While the Salvation Army as a church does have strong theological beliefs about homosexuality, its main focus as described in its mission statement is “to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination.”

Hood pointed out that LGBT groups have boycotted the Christian charity annually in recent years, but they have not had a significant impact on giving in previous years.  He said in the past two to three years, the organization actually broke records during their red kettle drive.  Last year, Salvation Army raised $142 million, which “was a 5 percent increase over the previous year.”

In the end, Hood said, it’s unfortunate that there is a boycott because it’s not the Salvation Army that will be hurt, but “it’s the people we serve,” including many from the gay community.

“If people refuse to give, it’s the poor and people in need that will suffer.”


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Does the Salvation Army, or any Christian organization, use "selective interpretation of the Bible to promote discrimination against  LGBT people."?  Of course not!  We use the entire Bible as our reason for declaring that the homosexual lifestyle is against the Word of God.

The Bible, the Written Word of God, tells us clearly God's view of the homosexual lifestyle:


It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26);  it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1  Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).    

 

This sounds pretty clear to me.  God does not like the homosexual lifestyle.  But, everyone who wants to leave the homosexual lifestyle and live the Christian lifestyle -- will find God waiting with open arms to embrace them and to welcome them into the Family of God.

 

Some may complain, asking why they have to leave the homosexual lifestyle to live the Christian lifestyle.   Can one live in the Sonshine -- and still dwell in darkness?   Can one swim in a mud puddle -- and still remain spotless?  No.  And, one cannot live the Christian life -- while still living in the homosexual lifestyle.

No, this is not selective interpretation -- this is reading the Word of God and accepting the literal words written in these Scripture verses and passages.

 

Why does the LBGT want to hold "leadership positions within the Army”?  There can be only one answer.  The LGBT and the homosexual community have one goal -- to take the Word of God and rewrite it to fit their society, to remake the Christian Theology into their Homosexual Theology.  And, God will never allow that to happen.

God, and all Christians, welcome everyone in the homosexual community into our churches, our places of worship, into our Christian  fellowship and family.  But, be assured that you will be hearing the true Word of God as it is written -- not as you would prefer it to be  written.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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So, why does the homosexual community want to work in a Christian organization when that Christian organization tells them that their lifestyle is against the Written Word of God?   

 

__________.

Because some homosexuals are also Christian.  Don't worry, Bill, I'm sure they find you unattractive.  If the Bible is to be taken literally, have you given up eating pork and shellfish?  Oh, that is right Leviticus doesn't apply anymore - wait, didn't you just quote Leviticus? 

Last edited by CrustyMac

Hi Crusty,

 

Sorry if my writing disturbed your sleep.  But, since you are awake now; let's talk.

 

In studying God's Word, we look at the entire Bible -- and we do not rewrite it to fit a selected lifestyle.   While some teachings in the Bible were for the Israelites only in the Old Testament world -- there are teachings which cross the boundaries of both Old Testament and New Testament.  In those cases one would expect to find the teachings in both parts of the Bible.  So, how about homosexuality?  What does God, in the entire Bible, have to say about the homosexual lifestlye?

 

It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26);  it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1  Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).   

 

By George, that seems pretty clear to me.  God hates the homosexual LIFESTYLE.   But, that should not bother you, my Friend -- for you discard all of the Bible anyway.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "Because some homosexuals are also Christian."

 

A person who has homosexual desires, but, does not live an active homosexual lifestyle -- might be a Christian believer.   However, a person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle cannot be a Christian believer -- for that lifestyle spits in the face of God.

 

As I wrote in my initial post:

 

Can one live in the Sonshine -- and still dwell in darkness?   Can one swim in a mud puddle -- and still remain spotless?  No.  And, one cannot live the Christian life -- while still living in the (active) homosexual lifestyle.

 

As with all sinful lifestyles -- one has to choose between that lifestyle and the Christian lifestyle.  One cannot live both.   Regardless of the sinful lifestyle -- be it homosexuality, adultery, fornication, stealing, murder, etc. -- one has to turn from that worldly lifestyle -- if one want to follow Jesus Christ.

 

Does this mean that the temptation for those lifestyles will disappear as soon as one becomes a Christian believer?  No.  The temptation will still be there, especially in the beginning.  And, there will be times when a Christian will fall prey to those temptations and commit these sins.   That does not mean that the person who sins is no longer a Christian; only that the person needs to repent of this sin and seek forgiveness.

 

Is this a license to sin?  No.  If a person continues to actively pursue this lifestyle; he/she must reexamine the commitment made to the Lord.  Did he/she really invite Jesus to come in and be Lord and Savior -- or did he/she only mouth the words?

 

So, Crusty, in a sense, you are right.  Some homosexuals are Christians.  However, the person living an active homosexual lifestyle is NOT a Christian believer -- even if he/she has mouthed the words.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

Sorry if my writing disturbed your sleep.  But, since you are awake now; let's talk.

 

In studying God's Word, we look at the entire Bible -- and we do not rewrite it to fit a selected lifestyle.   While some teachings in the Bible were for the Israelites only in the Old Testament world -- there are teachings which cross the boundaries of both Old Testament and New Testament.  In those cases one would expect to find the teachings in both parts of the Bible.  So, how about homosexuality?  What does God, in the entire Bible, have to say about the homosexual lifestlye?

 

It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26);  it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1  Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).   

 

By George, that seems pretty clear to me.  God hates the homosexual LIFESTYLE.   But, that should not bother you, my Friend -- for you discard all of the Bible anyway.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

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Okay, so you've given up pork and shellfish?  Or is it just "Israelite" homosexuals that are ****ed to hell?

Hi Crusty,

 

It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26);  it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1  Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).  

 

God said it!  Which part have you determined is wrong?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Shalom

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God also says not to eat pork, have you given that up?

 

Your quotes aren't from God.  Two come from Leviticus - who you say is no longer relevant, and the rest from Paul.  I'm trying to remember the various names of God - God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Yahweh, Jehovah... - and I'm not getting Paul to come up.  Obviously, Paul was a homophobe like you.  Please stop projecting your hate onto God.  ©

Last edited by CrustyMac
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "Because some homosexuals are also Christian."

 

A person who has homosexual desires, but, does not live an active homosexual lifestyle -- might be a Christian believer.   However, a person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle cannot be a Christian believer -- for that lifestyle spits in the face of God.

 

As I wrote in my initial post:

 

Can one live in the Sonshine -- and still dwell in darkness?   Can one swim in a mud puddle -- and still remain spotless?  No.  And, one cannot live the Christian life -- while still living in the (active) homosexual lifestyle.

 

As with all sinful lifestyles -- one has to choose between that lifestyle and the Christian lifestyle.  One cannot live both.   Regardless of the sinful lifestyle -- be it homosexuality, adultery, fornication, stealing, murder, etc. -- one has to turn from that worldly lifestyle -- if one want to follow Jesus Christ.

 

Does this mean that the temptation for those lifestyles will disappear as soon as one becomes a Christian believer?  No.  The temptation will still be there, especially in the beginning.  And, there will be times when a Christian will fall prey to those temptations and commit these sins.   That does not mean that the person who sins is no longer a Christian; only that the person needs to repent of this sin and seek forgiveness.

 

Is this a license to sin?  No.  If a person continues to actively pursue this lifestyle; he/she must reexamine the commitment made to the Lord.  Did he/she really invite Jesus to come in and be Lord and Savior -- or did he/she only mouth the words?

 

So, Crusty, in a sense, you are right.  Some homosexuals are Christians.  However, the person living an active homosexual lifestyle is NOT a Christian believer -- even if he/she has mouthed the words.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

What happened to that once saved always saved deal?

 

A person who has homosexual desires, but, does not live an active homosexual lifestyle -- might be a Christian believer.   However, a person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle cannot be a Christian believer -- for that lifestyle spits in the face of God.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like doublespeak to me.

Why wouldn't your god take that desire away? I mean don't some former alcoholics, drug users etc. claim that gawd took the desire for those things away? Don't you and other christians claim that cold blooded killers can lose the desire to kill? I mean heck, don't you claim that your god takes all evil desires away?? Guess that's not true after all. Don't you wonder why your god gives those people those desires in the first place?

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Sounds like doublespeak to me.

Why wouldn't your god take that desire away? I mean don't some former alcoholics, drug users etc. claim that gawd took the desire for those things away? Don't you and other christians claim that cold blooded killers can lose the desire to kill? I mean heck, don't you claim that your god takes all evil desires away?? Guess that's not true after all. Don't you wonder why your god gives those people those desires in the first place?

_______________________________

Don't you know we non-Christians, heathens I think we're called?, aren't supposed to ask questions that Christians can't give a sensible answer to?

If God allowed Satan to tempt His own Son, why in the world would he prevent the rest of us from being tempted? Maybe that's why we have the line "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil". Because temptation is part of being human, and overcoming temptation for the Lord's sake makes us stronger, better people.

 

Now, before you jump on me about the original subject of this thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I feel it is not my place, nor anyone else's place to judge. It is for God to judge, and for His children to show kindness and compassion. We are ALL sinners, and I feel that each of us should concentrate on our OWN shortcomings, and leave others alone.

Originally Posted by O No!:

I

Now, before you jump on me about the original subject of this thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I feel it is not my place, nor anyone else's place to judge. It is for God to judge, and for His children to show kindness and compassion. We are ALL sinners, and I feel that each of us should concentrate on our OWN shortcomings, and leave others alone.

___________

Congratulations O No!  You are today's winner of the Stop Making Sense Award.

quote:   Originally Posted by O No!:

Now, before you jump on me about the original subject of this thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I feel it is not my place, nor anyone else's place to judge.  It is for God to judge, and for His children to show kindness and compassion.  We are ALL sinners, and I feel that each of us should concentrate on our OWN shortcomings, and leave others alone.


Hi O No,

 

Do you believe that God condones the homosexual lifestyle?  Or, do you believe that He condemns that lifestyle?  I am not speaking of the individual homosexual.  We know God loves them and would have them become a part of His family.   But, in your opinion, what is God's attitude toward the homosexual lifestyle and same-sex marriage?

 

Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way that God teaches? 

 

Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?

 

And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by O No!:

Now, before you jump on me about the original subject of this thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I feel it is not my place, nor anyone else's place to judge.  It is for God to judge, and for His children to show kindness and compassion.  We are ALL sinners, and I feel that each of us should concentrate on our OWN shortcomings, and leave others alone.


Hi O No,

 

Do you believe that God condones the homosexual lifestyle?  Or, do you believe that He condemns that lifestyle?  I am not speaking of the individual homosexual.  We know God loves them and would have them become a part of His family.   But, in your opinion, what is God's attitude toward the homosexual lifestyle and same-sex marriage?

 

Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way that God teaches? 

 

Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?

 

And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

________________________

 

I say no. Christians should not support the homosexual lifestyle. They should not allow same sex marriage in their churches. They should not allow homosexuals to serve as leaders.

 

If they are going to adhere to the bible and not change its message they should also stone disobedient children.

 

I really hate wishy washy Christians. Either live as your guide book instructs and hate and kill those that go against it, or stop pretending to believe in it at all.....

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Christians should not support the homosexual lifestyle. They should not allow same sex marriage in their churches. They should not allow homosexuals to serve as leaders.

___________________________

They should not allow a deacon to serve that cheats on his wife Saturday night & then attends church on Sunday.

Yes, let us restrict that activity to Sunday through Friday.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by O No!:

Now, before you jump on me about the original subject of this thread, I have made it abundantly clear that I feel it is not my place, nor anyone else's place to judge.  It is for God to judge, and for His children to show kindness and compassion.  We are ALL sinners, and I feel that each of us should concentrate on our OWN shortcomings, and leave others alone.


Hi O No,

 

Do you believe that God condones the homosexual lifestyle?  Or, do you believe that He condemns that lifestyle?  I am not speaking of the individual homosexual.  We know God loves them and would have them become a part of His family.   But, in your opinion, what is God's attitude toward the homosexual lifestyle and same-sex marriage?

 

Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way that God teaches? 

 

Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?

 

And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

____________________________________________________________________________

Bill, I don't believe God condones ANY sin. I believe that just as it is not my place to judge someone who cheats on their spouse, disrespects their parents, or takes His name in vain, it is not my place to judge homosexuals. We ALL sin. Every one of us.

 

Do you know one single pastor, bishop, or other church leader who is NOT a sinner? Why does it make such a big difference to you WHAT the sin is? We ALL sin, and if we all went around judging each other for those sins, what a mess we would be in.

 

Nope. I say leave my sins between me and God, and I will leave the sins of others between THEM and God.

 

Hi O No,

 

You answered the first question -- but not the other three:

  

Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way that God teaches? 

 

Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?

 

And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?

 

And this has nothing to do with your opinion of church deacons, etc. -- but, only what you believe that Christian churches and Christians should believe and teach.

 

How would you apply Jesus' admonition in Matthew 28:19-20 (go, make disciples, baptize, teach) and Acts 1:8 and Mark 16:15 (be My witnesses) to that situation?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi O No,

 

You answered the first question -- but not the other three:

  

Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way that God teaches? 

 

Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?

 

And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?

 

And this has nothing to do with your opinion of church deacons, etc. -- but, only what you believe that Christian churches and Christians should believe and teach.

 

How would you apply Jesus' admonition in Matthew 28:19-20 (go, make disciples, baptize, teach) and Acts 1:8 and Mark 16:15 (be My witnesses) to that situation?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

___________________________________________________________________________

Bill, the way that God teaches is both through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit. I believe in God's teachings, but I feel that I can only apply those teachings to myself. While you are concentrating on the passages about homosexuality, I am concentrating on the passages that tell us not to judge. The Bible is there for anyone to read, and the Holy Spirit doesn't need my help, so I don't feel the need to teach anyone unless they ask for my advice.

 

I wouldn't so much say that ANY lifestyle is to be accepted or NOT accepted. It is not my place to accept ANYONE'S lifestyle. I mean, who am I to tell anyone else how to live? All I can do is give advice or an opinion IF ASKED. Anything beyond that is putting my nose in someone else's business, and that's not where it belongs. The way I see it, God will deal with each person's lifestyle choices, whether they be homosexual, drug addicts, television addicts, or whatever else.

 

The third question, I believe I dealt with in my previous post. Whether a pastor or other church leader is a homosexual or if he sins in another way, we are all sinners, and I believe it is what is in our hearts that matter. I knew a man once who had a VERY foul mouth. He grew up around parents whose language was, shall we say "colorful", and then he joined the Navy. He could barely speak without several of those words coming out.

 

Despite that, this man was a true Christian and a wonderful human being. He really TRIED to clean up his language, but then something would happen and there were those words again. Obviously, God did NOT want him to speak that way. The man sinned almost every time he opened his mouth, and that continued until the day he died. He KNEW he was sinning, but he just couldn't seem to change after all those years.

 

So you could say that foul language was part of HIS lifestyle. Does that mean he WASN'T a Christian? NO! He loved the Lord with all his heart and prayed for forgivness every day. It is my belief that he GOT that forgivness. And it is my belief that if a homosexual loves the Lord but can't seem to change his lifestyle, God will judge him on what is in his heart. So, yeah, if a homosexual feels the call to become a pastor, that's OK with me.

 

As for Jesus' instructions to go teach and baptize, he was talking to the apostles. And they did exactly as He instructed them so that by now, the whole world, or just about, has heard about Him. I believe that was just the first step in bringing God's children home to Him. But I think it would be silly to just keep taking that FIRST step over and over again. Now that that step has been taken, it is our job to CONTINUE the journey, by loving one another, helping the poor and the sick and the old, and being a good influence on children and the lost.

 

But mainly, for myself, I think MY job is to put my life and all of my actions into His hands so that I can be ready to do His will at the drop of a hat, no matter what His will is, and no matter where it takes me.

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

They should not allow a deacon to serve that cheats on his wife Saturday night & then attends church on Sunday.

_____________________

Originally Posted by BFred07:
Yes, let us restrict that activity to Sunday through Friday.

___________________________

Which one, going to church or cheating on his wife?

So you think it's ok for a man to be a deacon of a church & do that?

 

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