Now THIS is sad...

Lord, I hope I go suddenly rather than that. That is sad all the way around.

Vick, you probably know better than I how you'd bathe a dementia patient that refuses to bathe.

You know, if the lady is hurting those that have to bathe her, I'm not sure what their choices are. Do you let someone scratch, bite and spit on you if they are not in their right mind? How far should that be allowed to go? And what in the world is the humane way to deal with it?

I just don't know about this one. I mean, if they didn't care about her, they would just not bathe her at all, right?

...good lord..I could never be a nurse...I would have run....

A patient has the right to refuse. Always. You cannot force them to bathe, you cannot force them to take medicine. Ever.

What they did is patient abuse, pure and simple. And the spiting, biting, etc is not fun but you cannot refuse to care for them or retaliate in any way. There are other ways of handling it. And they did not have an order for restraints at all. Most of the time you get family members involved.

Looks like if they had problems with bathing her, they would have a meeting with family member's to see how they wanted to handle it. If no family member's & she didn't want a bath, then they shouldn't force her. Vick, what are the chances that the nurse or CNA that used the towel will be fired?

Wow, did not know that, Vick. But if they don't bathe & they are not in their right mind to know they need to bathe, that seems cruel, too. UH, that's just too awful!

Y'all promise me that if you find out I have dementia that you will tell the nurses I want to be clean. I'd prefer they just hose me down with soapy water in the shower though. I can't stand the thought of being bathed by someone other than my husband. Maybe this lady feels that way, too.

Well, since I know they shouldn't have done it & there were other choices, I hope they are held accountable & if possible, prosecuted.

'Staff members said they have never received training on how to deal with a combative patient during a bath or shower.'

Vick,
Do you get training or is it learn as you go??

Let's all hope we don't have to spend time in a nursing home....I'm sure things like this happen often.

It's a ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't situation.

My mom is a nurse and spent a lot of time working in nursing homes. Although she never did anything like this, she was frustrated at times. Some patents will pinch, hit, scratch, bite, spit, whatever they can do to fight you. Somehow, they have to be bathed because if they are not, it's neglect. If you try, you get injured. If you restrain, it's abuse. So what do you do?

This was really sad to read about..... My grandmother was the sweetest person I ever knew. Never a bad word, always kind and gentle. But in her last few years of life she had alzheimers some call dementia. Bless her heart she got to where she didnt know any of us, and hated to take a bath. Something about water scares them and they hate it. We were foruntate to be able to keep her at her home and we stayed in shifts with her at night. We had help with her during the day and a very nice lady would come and talk with her, and help us in bathing her. But when they get to that point all you can do is your best and hope and pray that they know your there for them.

That story breaks my heart. The elderly in that kind of situation are like children or pets, they don't know what is good for them but it has to be done, GENTLY. I have never been in health care and have no idea what it is like to deal with the elderly nor what the legal ramifications are. However, I cannot imagine treating anyone or anything in such a manner.

quote:

Originally posted by me:
Let's all hope we don't have to spend time in a nursing home....I'm sure things like this happen often.

see..THAT makes ME sad. and MAD. i don't think these things happen often. i supervise a unit of 37 residents in a long-term care facility. i resent the bonds/bodus/syskus TV ads that imply that all nurses and cna's are going to beat, rob and rape your grandma and then throw her in the floor so her hip will definitely be broken. i am mortified that someone would DO that...put a freakin towel over an elderly (geeesh or even non-elderly) persons face for ANY reason??

i can tell you what should have happened in this situation. obviously, the woman didn't just suddenly turn combative. a charge nurse, supervisor, medical director should have seen that this woman was not in control of her senses and intervened. that's our JOB. a resident with dementia who refuses ADL care (adult daily living...baths, hygiene, etc) or medications..food...should be evaluated first for medical diagnoses that could be making her to act out this way. urinary tract infections affect the elderly in different ways than they do the general adult population. usually, the first symptom of a UTI is a change in mental status. (confusion, combativeness, refusal of care). all it takes is a simple urine specimen and a round of antibiotics. possibly, the demented resident could have an electrolyte imbalance (dehydration, high potassium level) or even an onset of anemia.

if the woman had an underlying mental illness (very often the case)...she should have been evaluated for medicinal changes. antipsychotic drugs have to be "tweaked" now and then. if all else fails, we have a geri-psych unit located within 2 hours that we can arrange a transfer to...they usually come back to our facility with a clearer mentality within 2 weeks.

one of our interventions for a combative person is to find "just the right person" to perform all their ADL care. it's really odd sometimes who a resident responds appropriately to. it takes time and effort, and sometimes a lot of "nose-holding." an alert and oriented resident has the right to refuse any care. a demented person...requires much talent and time to determine the best way to approach care. i have had residents refuse showers for months at a time. there are ways, however, to keep them clean and odor-free without taking them to the shower and restraining them with a towel.

i just don't want the community to have the wrong idea about long-term care just because some idiots did something WRONG and illegal. i love each and every one of my 37 that i'm in charge of. my staff loves them just as i do. we are concerned, we are "on alert," and we don't deserve the bad publicity that others bring to us. for 37 residents on a typical day shift (this is the norm across alabama) we have one RN, two LPNS, and HOPEFULLY..if no one calls in sick..three CNA's. the one thing that upsets us more than anything else are the family members that rarely or never visit. then...they happen to walk in one random sunday afternoon after church and lunch at ruby tuesdays to visit gramma...(they had 10 minutes to kill) and find that she has crumbs on her gown from the lunch WE just tried to feed her. they go ballistic b/c gramma has crumbs on her. what they don't realize..is that gramma ate a good lunch today..and we are HAPPY !! but...the woman next door had fallen in the bathroom. sooo..the person feeding her had to jump and run (yeah..we're short-staffed and always will be..it's nature of the game). so...you be sweet and brush the crumbs off gramma's gown for us. and wonder why she knows the name of the person who fed her..but can't for the life of her remember who YOU are.

i apologize for venting. just please, please, please...do not read that article from the decatur paper and think that all long-term care employees are that way. what happened in that facility was wrong and illegal. i truly hope that the staff involved will be legally prosecuted.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You saved me from a long post this morning, patooty!

It just kills me that this stuff happens. And you are dead on the money with your reply. (Of course you are, you live it.) I just left a LTCF, but out staffing was 69 patients, 1 RN, 2 LPN's and a clinical coordinator. And whichever CNA's who decided to show up on any given day. (We were going through a "culture" change, so we couldn't fire their sorry butts for calling in.)

But, there is no excuse for what the Athens nursing home did. And you know very well she knew better and you know this probably was not an isolated incident.

YES, YES, YES you are trained to handle this. Unless they're just hiring bodies (which I strongly suspect). And I, too, hope they prosecute.

What a disgrace..I worked in short/long term care for many years,I have also got frustrated at times,but never one time did it cross my mind to mistreat anyone.I treated everyone as they were my mom or dad.

All I can say is KARMA..

The main reason I posted this is that I read this in the Decatur paper. But the Athens paper had a short paragraph that said Athens Convalescence Center hopes to get Medicare funding reinstated. That's about it. Nothing about WHY they're in trouble.

http://www.enewscourier.com/local/local_story_015225009.html

Talk about selective reporting...

I will have to stand up for some long term care facilities here. I know my great grandmother was in such a place for several years. My grandparents and my mom visited on a regular basis. My brother, sister, and I did not. She never really knew us and it would upset her for strangers to come into her room. She grew to love several of her care takers there. My mom would take clothing that she washed weekly for her. But when it came time to bathe, feed, or just console her- the workers were the ones she wanted. They made her feel secure and loved. Not to say that my grands or mom didn't. She just became part of the family there when she became ill so long ago. Her illness lasted a long time. So new workers would come and go but the old faithfuls would introduce them in a way that she just accepted them. Don't understand it- but greatly appreciated it. Much thanks to the good ones (who I know are out there).

I can vouch for Mitchell Hollingsworth. My daughter worked there for a few years. As far as I know, she only witnessed one abusive situation, reported it & the woman was fired. So, I think they frown heavily on misconduct there.

Saved me from a long post too! I have 16 years nursing experience, quite a few of those in LTC and I'm now nursing supervisor in an assisted living. Its a shame that you never hear about the wonderful caring staff that gives kind compassionate care to the elderly, just the stupid ones. LTC facilities are very often short staffed, but thats no reason for abuse. This was someone who just needed a job and does not have any business in this environment. Surely theres no doubt that she will be fired and placed on the abuse registery for CNAs. I check this before I hire anyone. Anyway, I could go on and on. Wouldn't it be nice though to see an article on quality care that happens in LTCs too?

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You saved me from a long post this morning, patooty!

It just kills me that this stuff happens. And you are dead on the money with your reply. (Of course you are, you live it.) I just left a LTCF, but out staffing was 69 patients, 1 RN, 2 LPN's and a clinical coordinator. And whichever CNA's who decided to show up on any given day. (We were going through a "culture" change, so we couldn't fire their sorry butts for calling in.)

But, there is no excuse for what the Athens nursing home did. And you know very well she knew better and you know this probably was not an isolated incident.

YES, YES, YES you are trained to handle this. Unless they're just hiring bodies (which I strongly suspect). And I, too, hope they prosecute.

people that work with the elderly or the handicap should be trained for situations like this. People with dementia don't know what they are doing, while some people with dementia it comes and goes, maybe they should have left her alone for the time being and came back later. I know my dad had dementia before he died a couple of months ago, you have to treat these people with respect, kindness, and love for they are human beings also and deserve to be treated as such.

I have also had a loved one in a nursing home, and from what I was able to see (regular visits), there was genuine compassionate care given there. If you have spent any length of time at one of these facilities, you've seen patients with all sorts of odd behaviors (good and bad). I think it takes a "special" person to care for these folks and for the most part, the facility administrators go to great lengths to find caring nurses. (I am not naive though--I know some bad apples squeak through sometimes).

Has anyone entertained the thought that this "bath incident" was not the first one and she was merely reacting to past abuse? Either way, it is unforgivable to treat any human in this manner!