Did anyone else find the obit. for the Greenhill shooter in today's paper a little strange?
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No, actually, that is the standard for obits. Even though he killed his family -- they were still his family...I'm just glad it didn't get into a long "he was a good man, loving father.." type thing -- then it would have been strange...
Not Really, i'm sure the family just wasn't up to writing a nice informative obit because they are more than likely upset they lost him but are (at least I would be) a little more upset about him doing what he did and probably just have a numb feeling towards him.
Yes I did too. It should not have said " preceded in death by", since he is the reason for that. It should have just listed the parents as survivors. If I were her family....that would be hard for me to take
And that God called them home ? No he didnt , the man made that choice for them and God . 
that was a waste of ink.
Those are polite ways to put things...and this will sound horrible, but since he did kill his family before himself -- they did precede him in death...as far as God calling him home -- yea, that is just more "funeral home speak" ... so I think the family and the funeral home did the best that they could under the circumstances to write the obituary. I certainly wouldn't have expected them to just bury him with no notice -- someone might have wanted to go pay their "respects" to him...
I didn't know any of these people and my heart BREAKS for all involved. I feel so awful for the victims and the ones left behind - particular the grandparents on BOTH sides. I cannot begin to even fathom what they must be going through, but I know it has got to be pure and absolute hell. I will be praying and thinking of them. Am I correctly understanding that for the elder Mr. and Mrs. Morgan (the grandparents of Chelsie), they don't have any family left now except for their son in law?
Those poor parents must be going through hell...i'm sure their love for their son made them want a decent obit for him, but at the same time they have to deal with what he's done.
My heart aches for them and they're in my prayers.
My heart aches for them and they're in my prayers.
quote:Originally posted by jjuliesmiles:
Am I correctly understanding that for the elder Mr. and Mrs. Morgan (the grandparents of Chelsie), they don't have any family left now except for their son in law?
Her obit in yesterday's paper did list that she had 2 brothers, 1 sister, a sister-in-law, a brother-in-law, 2 nieces and a nephew. Thank God that her parents still have them!
quote:Originally posted by SPELLBOUND:
Yes I did too. It should not have said " preceded in death by", since he is the reason for that.
Yes, that was the most disturbing thing I think I have ever read.
julie, The Morgans Had 3 other children, they are all younger than Tammy and they have 3 more grandchildren and a daughter-in-law and a son-in-law. I found them in my 1985 annual I remember the 2 youngest. the youngest was 2 years older than I and the next was 3 or 4.
Kevins parents are the ones that lost everyone except the son-in-law. It has to be so hards for both famalies I will continue to pray for them.
This is so terrible. I hate it so bad. I just wish there was something I could do for them. I don't know them personally - I will certainly be praying for them. I do not know what else to do.
Pray -- Pray hard -- that is all we can do...other than love our own families and take care of ourselves and make sure we fight with everything we have to avoid the sitautions they found themselves in and work on your relationships with your loved ones. If you have someone you are fighting with -- find common ground and make up. If you haven't said I love you -- say it as often as you can. If you don't spend enough QUALITY TIME with your loved ones -- take the time...skip that ballgame or that movie and talk to one another...Fight for your family to be strong in each other ... and then pray -- pray hard...again.
quote:Originally posted by onecrazymomma:
julie, The Morgans Had 3 other children, they are all younger than Tammy and they have 3 more grandchildren and a daughter-in-law and a son-in-law. I found them in my 1985 annual I remember the 2 youngest. the youngest was 2 years older than I and the next was 3 or 4.
The Morgans had Tammy, the oldest and then Doug who is about 38, and Kevin and Kim (twins) who are around 35.
quote:Originally posted by T S C:quote:Originally posted by onecrazymomma:
julie, The Morgans Had 3 other children, they are all younger than Tammy and they have 3 more grandchildren and a daughter-in-law and a son-in-law. I found them in my 1985 annual I remember the 2 youngest. the youngest was 2 years older than I and the next was 3 or 4.
The Morgans had Tammy, the oldest and then Doug who is about 38, and Kevin and Kim (twins) who are around 35.
I was just going by what the last yearbook I had on the ages tammy was a Jr., Doug was in 8th, Kim was in 5th and Kevin was in 4th. I was in first and this was in 1985 so that how I guessed the ages. I didn't know Kevin and Kim were twins I just remember both of them.
It's not even so much the funeral home any more--it's the family. I'm sure this is what Kevin's parents wanted.
Some years ago, a woman left her husband for another man and had plans for divorce. Her new love insisted that they go through with a marriage ceremony, even though she was still legally married. Can you say controlling?
In a few weeks, this new boyfriend killed the woman. There were two obits in the paper. The woman's family placed one listing her legal husband as a survivor, and the killer's family placed one, listing him as her husband.
What really ticked me, during the arrest and trial, the TD repeatedly referred to her killer as her husband. Sick.
Some years ago, a woman left her husband for another man and had plans for divorce. Her new love insisted that they go through with a marriage ceremony, even though she was still legally married. Can you say controlling?
In a few weeks, this new boyfriend killed the woman. There were two obits in the paper. The woman's family placed one listing her legal husband as a survivor, and the killer's family placed one, listing him as her husband.
What really ticked me, during the arrest and trial, the TD repeatedly referred to her killer as her husband. Sick.
quote:Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
It's not even so much the funeral home any more--it's the family. I'm sure this is what Kevin's parents wanted.
Some years ago, a woman left her husband for another man and had plans for divorce. Her new love insisted that they go through with a marriage ceremony, even though she was still legally married. Can you say controlling?
In a few weeks, this new boyfriend killed the woman. There were two obits in the paper. The woman's family placed one listing her legal husband as a survivor, and the killer's family placed one, listing him as her husband.
What really ticked me, during the arrest and trial, the TD repeatedly referred to her killer as her husband. Sick.
That is just scary to even think about and I couldn't imagine what the womans family was feeling in that case.
I really hate the phrase "proceeded in death". The obituary was strange. I think it would have been more appropriate to have kept it short. Just funeral arrangements. Everyone knows who he is and all about his deceased family.
Regardless of what the man did his family still has the responsibility to bury him and his parents still grieve for him. The obit was uncomfortable but I am sure that they were at a loss in determining how to handle the situation and so they did the best they could do. A parent's love is said to be unconditional so his mother and father are likely in the most serious type of despair now that the last thing on their mind is how they phrased his obit. It was odd and uncomfortable to say that his family proceeded him.
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I really hate the phrase "proceeded in death". The obituary was strange. I think it would have been more appropriate to have kept it short. Just funeral arrangements. Everyone knows who he is and all about his deceased family.
yes, but doesn't he have family members still living? parents? Maybe they loved him equally. Maybe people should stop and think about the parents, they lost 2 children.
There are no "rules" in cases like this - clearly. Still, the less said the better. Everyone knows the details. Having said that, I feel great sympathy for his parents.
quote:Originally posted by Skeptik:
Yes, that was the most disturbing thing I think I have ever read.
Then I would say you are very lucky if that is the most disturbing thing you have ever read. Maybe this obit was uncomfortable for many to read - how luxurious a life you must have! Imagine how uncomfortable it must be for all who love and care for everyone in this horrible tragedy.
How arrogant to judge someone else's grief. There is something terribly wrong with a man who kills his family members. Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
Pray for all of God's children.
quote:Originally posted by bubbaluck:
Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
Pray for all of God's children.
Maybe that will be the one good thing that will come out of this horrible situation. If a child tells a friend of abuse at home and swears them to secrecy, that friend will now tell someone instead of keeping that secret!
The only thing i find strange is someone being critical of how a grieving family is handling their PRIVATE extremely difficult time maybe instead of typing a critique of them you could grab a card and a pen and write a sympathy card and let them know your thoughts and prayers are with them.
quote:Originally posted by Roger Waters:
The only thing i find strange is someone being critical of how a grieving family is handling their PRIVATE extremely difficult time maybe instead of typing a critique of them you could grab a card and a pen and write a sympathy card and let them know your thoughts and prayers are with them.
I totally agree with you Roger Waters. Regardless of what this man did, his parents still need to be able to grieve in a dignified way. The funeral and all is more for the survivors of the deceased. A lot of times we do like to outline the achievements, but that is more for the living than the dead.
quote:Originally posted by bubbaluck:quote:Originally posted by Skeptik:
Yes, that was the most disturbing thing I think I have ever read.
Then I would say you are very lucky if that is the most disturbing thing you have ever read. Maybe this obit was uncomfortable for many to read - how luxurious a life you must have! Imagine how uncomfortable it must be for all who love and care for everyone in this horrible tragedy.
How arrogant to judge someone else's grief. There is something terribly wrong with a man who kills his family members. Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
Pray for all of God's children.
VERY WELL SAID!
I just had a chance to read the obit. The main thing that bothered me was listing his brother-in-law as a survivor. He may have agreed to this and even helped the parents write it, but it did disturb me. I would have thought that he would have rather been left out of the obit, as a brother-in-law, to the man that had murdered his wife and child.
This is my opinion only and I mean no disrespect to his grieving parents.
This is my opinion only and I mean no disrespect to his grieving parents.
quote:Originally posted by bubbaluck:
Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
What would you have had them do? Lock him away?
Make him get help?
This man would probably never have admitted the things he was thinking. No matter what we may see or hear to indicate trouble,
you can't force a grown man/woman to get help if they won't admit there is a problem.
You also can't have someone arrested unless they have committed a crime.
quote:Originally posted by UNA LIONS FAN:
I just had a chance to read the obit. The main thing that bothered me was listing his brother-in-law as a survivor. He may have agreed to this and even helped the parents write it, but it did disturb me. I would have thought that he would have rather been left out of the obit, as a brother-in-law, to the man that had murdered his wife and child.
This is my opinion only and I mean no disrespect to his grieving parents.
That bothered me too along with the listing of "preceded in death by". Another thing though obviously his parents put his obit in the paper. I've been wondering why there wasn't also one in there for their daughter/grandson? Even though she didn't live here there was still a connection.
the only obit I found for the the daughter grandson in the illinois paper was only one sentence long. just stated date of death didn't include survivors or anything. I'm hoping there is one somewhere that has a little more that 1 line sentence is just sad.
How about quit being "bothered" or finding things "odd" that is none of your business and allow a family to grieve in peace..This is not TMZ..The pointless gossip and fascination and curiousity with tragedy is sickening...THEIR family,THEIR decision,THEIR sorrow,THEIR business NOT ours...This grieving family need not submit a rough draft of obituaries to any of you
I am not asking for a rough draft, and I do know some of these peoples families is why I was even looking for the obits of the family members I am not one to read obits for people I do not know. And I along with many others have been going through the grieving process all though different from the immediate family and close friends but I have been hurt and torn by this tragedy!
luvmypups, I do not think his parents had any thing to do with the obit in the paper. They are an elderly couple who lost not only a son but their entire family, I am sure they had more on their minds than putting a orbit in the paper or making funeral arrangments.
quote:Originally posted by KatyBug:quote:Originally posted by bubbaluck:
Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
What would you have had them do? Lock him away?
Make him get help?
This man would probably never have admitted the things he was thinking. No matter what we may see or hear to indicate trouble,
you can't force a grown man/woman to get help if they won't admit there is a problem.
You also can't have someone arrested unless they have committed a crime.
According to the Decatur Daily, he did commit a crime:
Kevin Garner’s violence led his wife to leave him after 21 years of marriage, Pursley said.
“He was being mean to the daughter. He was really strict, like if she missed a ball or whatever in softball. Tammy said she had pictures of bruises,” Pursley recalled. “It wasn’t physical abuse you could see. I guess it was hidden by the clothes.”
Ashlee Beggs, 16, a classmate of Chelsie Garner’s at Priceville High School, said Wednesday that Kevin Garner frequently beat his wife and that he would beat Chelsie when she attempted to intervene.
“He’d hit her momma. She’d jump on him trying to stop him, and he’d swing her off, hit her,” Beggs said. “She would be bruised up a lot, but she begged us not to say anything.”
Beggs said many saw Kevin Garner dragging his daughter by the hair at softball tournaments if she made a mistake.
“We all saw it,” Beggs said. “I think we were just as scared to say anything to him as she was.”
Beating your wife is a crime. Beating your kid is a crime. Dragging your child by the hair of the head is a crime. It sickens me as well as saddens me that Kevin Garner's last crime could very well have been prevented if someone had the gumption to reach out and help this family.
quote:Originally posted by bamacarl:
luvmypups, I do not think his parents had any thing to do with the obit in the paper. They are an elderly couple who lost not only a son but their entire family, I am sure they had more on their minds than putting a orbit in the paper or making funeral arrangments.
While I do think someone with an agenda* composed the obit, I understand his parents are intelligent, active adults who are in their late sixties.
* The rationale for the use of the word agenda concerns the lack of others who predeceased him. Since both parents were living, why not list the deceased grandparents? No matter, anyone who has the money to pay can have almost anything published in an obit.
quote:Originally posted by T S C:quote:Originally posted by KatyBug:quote:Originally posted by bubbaluck:
Sadly there is something terribly wrong as well with all who sat by and saw the signs of trouble and said nothing.
What would you have had them do? Lock him away?
Make him get help?
This man would probably never have admitted the things he was thinking. No matter what we may see or hear to indicate trouble,
you can't force a grown man/woman to get help if they won't admit there is a problem.
You also can't have someone arrested unless they have committed a crime.
According to the Decatur Daily, he did commit a crime:
Kevin Garner’s violence led his wife to leave him after 21 years of marriage, Pursley said.
“He was being mean to the daughter. He was really strict, like if she missed a ball or whatever in softball. Tammy said she had pictures of bruises,” Pursley recalled. “It wasn’t physical abuse you could see. I guess it was hidden by the clothes.”
Ashlee Beggs, 16, a classmate of Chelsie Garner’s at Priceville High School, said Wednesday that Kevin Garner frequently beat his wife and that he would beat Chelsie when she attempted to intervene.
“He’d hit her momma. She’d jump on him trying to stop him, and he’d swing her off, hit her,” Beggs said. “She would be bruised up a lot, but she begged us not to say anything.”
Beggs said many saw Kevin Garner dragging his daughter by the hair at softball tournaments if she made a mistake.
“We all saw it,” Beggs said. “I think we were just as scared to say anything to him as she was.”
Beating your wife is a crime. Beating your kid is a crime. Dragging your child by the hair of the head is a crime. It sickens me as well as saddens me that Kevin Garner's last crime could very well have been prevented if someone had the gumption to reach out and help this family.
Yeah, he had committed several crimes, before committing the ultimate one!
And anyone who could just sit back & watch this type of behavior go on & not do anything about it, is no better in my book! That's what DHR & Safeplace is for. They most definitely could had & would had happily intervened!!
Amen to that Flotowndown,
I am sorry but if these people who saw this taking place and did not step in and help this child they are just as guilty of murder, as the father.In my opinion!!!!!
You let me see someone mistreating someone and you better believe I am going to step in and call the police and help that person, I may get my ass whooped but at least that child or person will be safe.
WE need to all learn something from this, if we have a friend or a family member that we know is being abused, STEP IN even if the one being abused says please don't.
It is up to us to help that person to make sure they are SAFE, not to close our eyes to the abuse thinking they can handle it or it will go away. LOOK at where it got this family.
I am sorry but if these people who saw this taking place and did not step in and help this child they are just as guilty of murder, as the father.In my opinion!!!!!
You let me see someone mistreating someone and you better believe I am going to step in and call the police and help that person, I may get my ass whooped but at least that child or person will be safe.
WE need to all learn something from this, if we have a friend or a family member that we know is being abused, STEP IN even if the one being abused says please don't.
It is up to us to help that person to make sure they are SAFE, not to close our eyes to the abuse thinking they can handle it or it will go away. LOOK at where it got this family.
quote:Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:quote:Originally posted by bamacarl:
luvmypups, I do not think his parents had any thing to do with the obit in the paper. They are an elderly couple who lost not only a son but their entire family, I am sure they had more on their minds than putting a orbit in the paper or making funeral arrangments.
While I do think someone with an agenda* composed the obit, I understand his parents are intelligent, active adults who are in their late sixties.
* The rationale for the use of the word agenda concerns the lack of others who predeceased him. Since both parents were living, why not list the deceased grandparents? No matter, anyone who has the money to pay can have almost anything published in an obit.
I hate to burst your bubble, but when you go to the funeral home they get all the information and someone else writes the obit unless you write it yourself and in this case I would think no one in the families did the obits.
SO FirenzeVeritas, PLEASE do tell us who you think had the agenda*?????