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quote:
"Bingo" is right Flatus, I couldn't have said it better myself, a Capitalist: "a guy who doesn't mind wrecking economies to pad his fortune." Wall Street and Corporate America are filled with them. We are taught to idolize them and the Corporate Media praises them as celebraties. They consistently back Republicans but some are liberal on social issues, not many but some.


Pogo, you need to look at look at the rich backers of the left; these people tend to be fast buck artists. The reason is these people can get rich from the misery of others. Trial lawyers can get rich destroying manufacturers that make products that can be misused by people worthy of a Darwin Award mention. Closed factories equals unemployment. Then there are the hedge fund and commodities people who can move money to safe havens and then manipulate the values of commodities and currency causing misery to us all and then they can swoop in and pick up bargains when the economy goes under.
Old more traditional rich people who favor some stability in the markets tend to favor Republicans. These are the people who outright own the businesses or have stock in the companies sued or scammed out of existence by the fast-buck artists. These are the people who employ others and who have to lay off employees when the economy goes bad.
As far as the last major contributors to the Dem's, the actors and performers, I 'm not sure they have a reason to support anyone. Maybe it just feels good to give to people who talk a good story about helping "the Little People". I can think of better charities.
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a soul and you may have not seen it but I have stated numerous times on this Forum that there are also Corporate Democrats and the Clinton's are two of the most famous.

Obama has basically been getting tangled up with them since he entered the Senate. What he will do as President will be seen and I fear he will be along the lines of another Bill. He will continue the wars for control of the region but with a different strategy, probably more low key and hidden and he will continue the policies of Corporate Globalization for the profits of the Corporate Class at the expense of the worker, but do something about the corruption and stealing which is bankrupting America. That's why he is getting the backing of Corporate Democrats.

Trial lawyers defend people's rights against the powerful interests that exploit them. When a Corporation is either willfully or accidentally negligent and it results in pain and suffering for people they have the right to sue for compensation. Why are these manufactures you defend free from responsibility?

Our real jobs were sent over seas by these Capitalists to increase their profits.

There are Corporate Democrats on Wall Street but it is predominantly Republican and the "old money" you speak of did get their money the old fashion way, they stole it. They exploited our grandparents when they came here as immigrants until the people organized into unions and fought bitter labor battles for their rights, which have been takin away again by the Reagan, (Neocon) Revolution.

The old time Conservatives are furious with Bush because they have bankrupted and ruined America. We may have the most powerful military but it's always been the countries of wealth that call the tunes and lead the world. We are just the cops of the world for the wealthy nations.

I have no illusions about Obama nor do those who read the Progressive Alternative Press which has pointed out Obama's ties to the corporate class. If he was truly independent and wanted to bring about real change and justice for the people he would be ignored and demonized like Nader or ridiculed like Kucinich or attacked like Edwards.

We will still get a better deal under Obama then under McCain who also has corporate ties.

Like Bill Clinton Obama will make sensible choices as Federal Judges and his Cabinet and will govern better then Bush or McCain. His energy policies will also be better for our environment and though he is aware and influenced by the powerful Oil Oligarchy he is not part of them or under their control.

Obama has organized the people and he has shown that the people want a change. He has also shown other candidates that it is possible to build a constituency on social responsibilities and peace. The people must stay organized and focused and if he does not address our needs we will find someone who will.
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
That's why he is getting the backing of Corporate Democrats.
Unfortunately, these along with the "corporate republicans" are the very ones we need protection against. They typically would love to take your tax monies and defer them to some poorly run government program which will line THEIR pockets. Take the running scam for ethanol. Most of the suppoorters on Capital Hill either have a direct financial entanglement with an ethanol producer or want to see more corn subsidies given to their constituents, to keep them in office.
Trial lawyers defend people's rights against the powerful interests that exploit them. When a Corporation is either willfully or accidentally negligent and it results in pain and suffering for people they have the right to sue for compensation. Why are these manufactures you defend free from responsibility?

Our real jobs were sent over seas by these Capitalists to increase their profits.

There are Corporate Democrats on Wall Street but it is predominantly Republican and the "old money" you speak of did get their money the old fashion way, they stole it. They exploited our grandparents when they came here as immigrants until the people organized into unions and fought bitter labor battles for their rights, which have been takin away again by the Reagan, (Neocon) Revolution.

The old time Conservatives are furious with Bush because they have bankrupted and ruined America. We may have the most powerful military but it's always been the countries of wealth that call the tunes and lead the world. We are just the cops of the world for the wealthy nations.

I have no illusions about Obama nor do those who read the Progressive Alternative Press which has pointed out Obama's ties to the corporate class. If he was truly independent and wanted to bring about real change and justice for the people he would be ignored and demonized like Nader or ridiculed like Kucinich or attacked like Edwards.

We will still get a better deal under Obama then under McCain who also has corporate ties.
I seriously doubt that anyone with the voting record of the most liberal Senator in histroy will be good for this economy and make usage of what he will be entrusted with. His flip-flopping is as bad as McCain, both appear to be watching the news and swaying in the winds. "change" is the word of the day for sure, if you aren't getting enough coverage, change your mantra to something that will get it for you.

Like Bill Clinton Obama will make sensible choices as Federal Judges and his Cabinet and will govern better then Bush or McCain. His energy policies will also be better for our environment and though he is aware and influenced by the powerful Oil Oligarchy he is not part of them or under their control.

Obama has organized the people and he has shown that the people want a change. He has also shown other candidates that it is possible to build a constituency on social responsibilities and peace. The people must stay organized and focused and if he does not address our needs we will find someone who will.
Pogo,

quote:
France is not in "turmoil" over Muslims. You are repeating the whacked fear promoted by the Corporate Media to support our Mideast Wars for their Resources. There is a racism among the French toward people of a different culture and religion, happens everywhere. A suspicion and misunderstanding of people that are different. It's not every French person and not every Muslim person is poor. We have an influx of immigrants here also. The Riots were mainly the youth in poor sections revolting against abuse, harassment and racism by the police. We have the same problems here.


I must assume you are woefully ignorant of the French situation. Most of the poor muslims are settled in banlieux in the outskirts of the cities. Few to none of the native french poor live in these settlements -- architecture worthy of Stalin's worst. If they tried, they would not live very long. There are about 900 such banlieux through France and are mainly "No Go" areas.

The riots of 2005 featuring 15,000 cars burned throughout France (the Great Carbeque) was caused by youths from north Africa. Must one be more explicit than that.

The riots are continuing and the rioters are pretty much the same ethnicity,although with not the same ferocity.

A couple of examples, please note that the locations are near or at the afrementioned settlements. As most English language papers don't care the articles, I'm linking from smaller sites.

Third Straight Night of Youth Riots In France
By VOA News
28 November 2007

Riots have broken out for a third straight night in a northern Paris suburb despite heavy police presence.
Rioters burned several cars in Villiers-le-Bel Tuesday night, where the deaths of two young people whose motorbike collided with a police car Sunday set off the violence.

The riots have also spread to the southern French city of Toulouse, where police say 10 cars and a library were set on fire.
Police say the violence has injured 120 officers since Sunday. Four of the officers near Paris were seriously wounded by buckshot from hunting rifles.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-11/2007-11-...018&CFTOKEN=27520759

French youths clash with police
15/06/2008 17:24 - (SA)

Lille - Dozens of French youths clashed with police in a town in northeast France overnight, burning cars during a rampage triggered by the killing of a 22-year-old man, an official said on Sunday.

Two police officers, two firefighters and five residents suffered minor injuries during the violence that raged until Sunday morning in Vitry-le-Francois, said Sylvaine Astic from the regional prefect's office.
Armed with baseball bats and firebombs, about 50 youths went on a rampage, torching cars and setting fire to garbage bins in the town of 17 000 people, Astic told AFP.

The violence started around 22:00 (20:00 GMT) after the 22-year-old man was gunned down in Vitry-le-Francois. A suspect was arrested overnight.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2042016,00.html
quote:
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a soul and you may have not seen it but I have stated numerous times on this Forum that there are also Corporate Democrats and the Clinton's are two of the most famous.


Pogo, if you belong to a pension plan or 401k you may be calling yourself soulless. You're right that a bunch of Democrats are into a form of capitalism, the neoliberal ideal of economic globalization. Economic globalization is itself a subset of the globalization fad of neoliberals, that is the integration of the world into one global nation and economy.
quote:
Originally posted by Flatus the Ancient:
quote:
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a soul and you may have not seen it but I have stated numerous times on this Forum that there are also Corporate Democrats and the Clinton's are two of the most famous.


Pogo, if you belong to a pension plan or 401k you may be calling yourself soulless. You're right that a bunch of Democrats are into a form of capitalism, the neoliberal ideal of economic globalization. Economic globalization is itself a subset of the globalization fad of neoliberals, that is the integration of the world into one global nation and economy.



That seems to be the goal of BOTH parties. It was a Democrat president and a Republican house that gave us NAFTA, and MFN for China.
quote:
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a sou


I believe in capitalism, Pogo. Are you saying I have no soul?

So you are against earning your keep and keeping what you earn? You are against rewarding innovation and hard work? You are against the little guy having the opportunity to pull himself up and become successful? That's what capitalism is.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Originally posted by Flatus the Ancient:
quote:
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a soul and you may have not seen it but I have stated numerous times on this Forum that there are also Corporate Democrats and the Clinton's are two of the most famous.


Pogo, if you belong to a pension plan or 401k you may be calling yourself soulless. You're right that a bunch of Democrats are into a form of capitalism, the neoliberal ideal of economic globalization. Economic globalization is itself a subset of the globalization fad of neoliberals, that is the integration of the world into one global nation and economy.



That seems to be the goal of BOTH parties. It was a Democrat president and a Republican house that gave us NAFTA, and MFN for China.


I agree with this...... you are right.... I just hate knowing our Country does such a massive business with China which promotes communism........ that will bite our rear-ends some day!......
Are Democrats finally waking up out of their stupor?

A top U.S. Democratic senator said in a newspaper interview published Wednesday that he would consider supporting opening up new areas for offshore oil and gas drilling.
"I'm open to drilling and responsible production," Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin told The Wall Street Journal, adding that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could also support the move.

Top Democrat Open to Offshore Drilling
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0930217120080709
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flatus the Ancient:

quote:
I agree with what you said about Capitalists being without a soul and you may have not seen it but I have stated numerous times on this Forum that there are also Corporate Democrats and the Clinton's are two of the most famous.


Pogo, if you belong to a pension plan or 401k you may be calling yourself soulless. You're right that a bunch of Democrats are into a form of capitalism, the neoliberal ideal of economic globalization. Economic globalization is itself a subset of the globalization fad of neoliberals, that is the integration of the world into one global nation and economy.


________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flatus, I used your term when you said Soros had to get a soul. I pointed out he is a Capitalist. Your own definition called them greedy and ruthless or heartless or somehting along those lines.

Corporate Globalization is not a Democratic Party invention but comes under both parties. There are some Democrats and Republicans who realize these policies are disastrous for the American worker and America itself. The first I heard about it was under Reagan when he gave tax breaks and incentives for manufacturing jobs to move to Central America and spoke about "Global Trade Initiative" or some title like that. It continued under Bush Sr and Bill Clinton.

I am for trade and believe it is good but we do need protections and what is termed "Fair Trade." Corporations want trade to increase profits at workers expense.

The company I work for is a small business and does not have a pension plan and I just have my savings. They do give me Health Care though.

Capitalism rewards greed and is based on exploitation.

Drilling for oil off our shores and in environmental sensitive areas is not an "energy policy." As I have posted in previous threads on this our own Energy Information Agency has stated the oil will not be available for years. They project 2030 and it will not significantly affect the price of oil. It's just adds more profits to the oil corporations and does not offer any real answers for the future. Most new oil wells they want to access will be harder to drill and more expensive. The price of gas will not go down.

If the Democrats change to support off shore drilling it is probably because of the lobbying and propaganda campaigns carried out to convince the American people that drilling will be an answer and provide relief on high gas prices. It will not.

It would not be the first issue the Democrats have folded on.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.-Winston Churchill

Pogo, there are different types of capitalists, there are some like Soros who are predatory and then there are the more benign capitalists who do good things for the working man. Up to date factories that employ millions of American workers are financed by people who buy stocks and bonds. If those investments cease, then all jobs would definitely go overseas. A predator like Soros and his ilk can destroy an economy through speculation scams and can lead to socialists coming to power. Both the leftist faction of the Democratic party and people like Soros profit from the destabilization of the economy.
Economic globalzation in ways has its origins in the old trading empires of a few thousand years ago. The Marshall plan after WW2 had in part elements of economic globalization. The Organization for European Economic Co-operation was formed and money from the US taxpayer and investor flowed into Europe to build factories and infrastructure to keep the millions of unemployed Europeans from becoming communists.

As far as oil, we are probably stuck with it for a few more decades. It will take a decade or three just to weed out the usable technologies from the non-viable ones. Then there is the time for building the manufacturing facilities and infrastructure. I think your time frame for using oil from the new oil fields is a little off. If it takes a couple of decades to get oil from a new oil field, then the oil from the Alaskan fields would have arrived in the market in the late 90's. As far as the dangers of drilling in environmentally sensitive areas, how many oil wells leaked after hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005 along the Gulf coast?
Last edited by Flatus the Ancient
The people in Britain and the rest of Europe have lived with socialist program for decades an are not "suffering" under it. They have a very fine quality of life.

Anytime countries try to use full Socialism or Communism they have been targeted by the US for destabilization. In some cases any moves by 3rd world developing countries to self determination has also brought violent reactions from the US.

I have argued this point since I have been on the Forum. The Soviet Union was a military dictatorship and was not an example of Communism. Communism, like Socialism are economic systems that can only function fairly with democracy. Also these systems have problems that can be are addressed in countries that use Socialism. Whenever people argue for Capitalism they ignore the poverty, recessions, depression and other problems but attack any form of Socialism. It is because we are propagandized by a Capitalist Corporate Media and Country.

Soros is like any other Capitalist who becomes wealthy at the expense of others. That's the name of the game and it rewards Greed. A system based on greed will naturally become corrupt.

As I stated I am for Trade but Fair Trade. Fair Trade is exactly what it says, Fair, for everyone involved. Current Corporate Globalization is only to maximize profits at the workers and peoples expense around the world. They bid worker against worker as to whom will work for the least, give up the most benefits and governments that will give the highest tax breaks and lenient environmental and worker protection. It is Capitalism in it's fullest.

True Socialism only creates safety nets and keeps basic necessities available to all people in the country. It doesn't mean dictatorship or prevent owning your own business and homes and all the other nonsense we are fed by the Capitalist Corporate Media that is ingrained in us throughout our culture since we are young.

Safe, renewable alternative energy sources are not "decades away." More propaganda. The electric car was on the market and had satisfied users. It was withdrawn by the Car Corporations and Killed. There is enough wind power in the US to supply us with all the electricity we need. These industries are new and need to be Belleville. If we spent the $200 Billion on developing alternative energy that we spent in Iraq, for the oil, we could have successful systems working almost immediately. They would create new technologies and jobs, just what we need. I saw an article by the Oil Man Boone Pickens where he calls the US, "the Saudi Arabia of Wind Power." I am at work ow but hope to read it sometime today. I will post itwhen I do. It is in the alternate site.

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