Ohio vote?

If one could reason with trolls we wouldn't have you to kick around.

Ohio is an extremely important swing state for 2012 POUTUS election.

The rejection of the anti-union sentiment does not bode well for the Repubes. 

There's always 2016!

Romney isn't the least bit interested in the 'working class'. So far there isn't a Rebulican running that is worth wasting a vote on. The same holds true for the Dems.

The union way, two cars in the garage and two chickens in every pot.

Perhaps your demeanor is starting to rub off......

In the ccurrent administration those cars are about to be repo'd and the chickens are leased.

Where did corporate thieves get the money they stole that required bailouts?

    Answer: The money saved paying scab wages.

    Where is the bailout money coming from?

    Answer: from the pockets of non-union workers.

Put the money in the pockets of the American worker not in the pockets of thieves.

   Vote union.

$ = votes in Ohio.

Once again, a tragedy that the best interests of the  school children are trumped by Big Labor and its very Big Wallet.

I've only belonged to ONE union: the NEA (20+ years). I HATED being a member. The NEA is rabidly anti-Constitution and DOES NOT represent MY interests, but the $1-million in liability insurance was hard to ignore in today's 'sue-happy' world.

The Ohio voters sent a mixed message. Apparently, they have no problem taxing themselves more to pay public union employees.  That's their decision and they will live with the consequences.

OTOH, they soundly defeated Obamascare.  While the vote will not affect Obamascare directly, I shows extreme hostility on the part of the majority of Ohio voters for federal government's expansion into health care.

Locally, Dems may prosper in Ohio.  However, Obama shouldn't count on their votes for 2012.

I would prefer some pot, forget the damm chicken ::-)

Yes, but after the pot, you'd get the munchies. Those chickens would look pretty good.

***

To the radical wingers, who currently make up an uncomfortably large fraction of the GOP, Romney is a despicable RINO, no better in their eyes than a Democrat.  Gone are the days of the kind of inclusiveness when a Nelson Rockefeller, a Bill Scranton, a John Chaffee, or other moderate Republicans could co-exist with their more conservative brethren.  The GOP is hopelessly fractured. If they put up anyone but Head Flip-flopper Romney, they will lose.  If they put up Romney, they will probably lose also, since the Tea Party nutjobs and their allies will either stay away from the polls or support some third-party candidate, thus splitting off enough Republican votes to give the election to Obama.

Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Ohio voters’ Nov. 8 repeal of a law limiting collective bargaining for public employees may not stop efforts across the U.S. to curb union power as states face fiscal struggles.

“Ohio is a big win for labor, and it will certainly diminish, though likely not end, attacks on unions,” Harley Shaiken, a labor professor at University of California-Berkeley, said in an e-mail.

U.S. states and cities face declining revenue after the longest recession since the 1930s, forcing some to seek tax increases or staffing reductions. Curbs on bargaining for government workers have been billed as a way to manage those costs. While union leaders say they will accept cuts to help balance budgets, state officials including Ohio Governor John Kasich say they need more ability to cope with rising costs.

          We’ll see how much celebration goes on for the non-union Ohioans when their taxes skyrocket. And I was yelling from the top of my roof in anger. Didn’t you here me Jimbo? 

http://www.businessweek.com/ne...of-labor-fights.html

Skippy

Don't jump to conclusions!  Romney might not be a first choice, but then,McCain was running fifth this time in the last elections.

National Review magazine approved of Romney, in the past, under Buckley's old rule for supporting conservatives -- "dont vote for the most conservative candidate, vote for the most conservative candidate that can get elected."

Obama's a great consolidator -- of his opposition!

Here is my take with the disclosure that I am a ALPA union member.  There are two major types of unions public sector and private with one major difference my first officer and I discussed on a flight last month.
Private sector unions like mine have contract negotiations between company management and the union representing the workers.  This forces both sides to give as the company is looking out for the bottom line and the union is trying to get improvements for the represented workers.  Regardless of what some on this board think no union worker I know wants the company they work for not to be successful.
Public sector unions are negotiated between workers and politicians.  One side of the negotiation process only cares about votes as the cost is simply passed on to the tax payers.  This is where in my opinion the problem lies and I do not know how to fix it.
Finally we discussed at length that America cannot exist without a solid middle class and both sides of the isle seem intent on destroying it.  In my opinion Republicans want to offs**** every job they can and then bring in low payed non-Americans or turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants destroying the jobs they cannot offs****.  The Democrats want to allow illegals or the same low payed people in hoping for votes.  In all of this the American people are in the crosshairs.
The American workers cannot compete with third world labor prices or the conditions that they will work in.  We also cannot compete with illegal immigrants who live several families to a house etc.  The building trades that I used to work my way thru college are a good example of this they used to be blue collar jobs that you could raise a family.  Now with so many illegals it is not worth doing for the pay offered especially if you want to do it legally as with a license and insurance.  
Flame On

Hiflyer2,

As to private sector unions, I've little against them, except when they institute union rules that handicap the business that employs their members.  The UAW is a prime example.  Private sector unions should work with business to ensure their members are well paid and well trained. Its lack of skilled labor I see as a major problem. 

Public sector unions are a wholly different critter.  Democrat politicians work for the benefit of the union and the union leaders pump funds into the politicians campaign fund.  Its almost a money laundering machine of the public's money.

Speaking as a conservative, who happens to be a Republican, I agree the immigration problem needs fixing.  First, the border must be controlled.  Then, a rational immigration policy is needed. Short term immigrants should be vetted for agriculture and a couple of other areas where seasonal labor is neeful.  Let them come in, do their work and return home.  Then, come again another day.

Skilled labor should be for US citizens, unless there is a proven shortage. And, even then, it should be short term.

Inventor,

We agree, as a Republican I wish the potential offerings were better, I remember watching the first debates and thinking if this is the best they can come up with God help us.  We agree on unions also just remember no union institutes the rules, they negotiate a contract and Management agrees to it.   The figures most companies throw out for salaries are in my opinion inflated to effect the negotiating process.  I know when our contract comes up this coming year it will be reported that my total salary will be double its actual amount.  This seems weird when benefits usually run 1/3 to 1/4 of the salary.   My personal pet peeve is this thinking that retirements are just give-mes to employes which could be nothing further from the truth.  Retirements were earned income just deferred remember someone took a lower pay to get the retirement package.  I think we both agree no one should just walk away from a loan and not pay, nor should companies be able to do the same to the employees.   Chasing the sun to Taipei Taiwan tomorrow, like you I enjoy seeing the other cultures but having seen most of them I can say even with it's problems the U.S. is the best by far.  I want it to stay that way.

As opposed to the Wall Street pirate way: 4 houses, 20 cars, and personal chef and valet that travel with you on your private jet and yacht between visits to each house at least once a year, if only to make sure it's still there.

Have you checked up on that lately since the ridiculous claims of $70 per hour? Much has changed in the past five years.

No, I didn't "here" you, you illiterate nitwit.

The way things are going, Romney may be the only choice. He has only been running for about seven years.

This wouldn't sound any better if it were true.

I am a warehouse distributor for Dana Corp. They are the largest drivetrain manufacturer in the U.S.  In about 2004, i traveled to Toledo Ohio to go to the corporate offices, as well as other things. When I went to the offices of the top level execs, I was amazed. They had valet parking when they came to work. While they were working, their cars were detailed every day. They had a catered lunch everyday via an onsite cafeteria, and they didn't serve pinto beans and cornbread, and it wasn't a meat and 3 vegs. It was upscale food.

 Within 3 years the company filed bankruptcy. They cancelled all the common stock and issued preferred stock to Appaloosa partners, the Wall Street company that bailed them out. The cancelling of the stock wiped out the employees who had worked and retired or were near retirement. The union was forced to cancel contracts and take less pay and benefits were lost.

 The day the bankruptcy judge approved the plan and they emerged from bankruptcy the CEO walked to the paymaster window and collected a 4 million dollar check and walked out the door. 

+1

This is exactly what the Republicans are fighting for. Why the American middle class continue to support this kind of nonsense is a mystery for which there seems no answer.

"

This is exactly what the Republicans are fighting for. Why the American middle class continue to support this kind of nonsense is a mystery for which there seems no answer.

??????????

Nice sounding nonsense. Do you understand that?

It is my opinion just that !   You are just a liberal equivalent of line voting Republican cannot see any wrong on your side of the isle.  You loose every discussion due to you mindless drivel and name calling.  So you think America can exist without the middle class?

yes, the UAW is a victim and perpetrator.  The UAW labor lords negotiate contracts that helped drag down the Big 3.  The Big 3 executives agreed to contracts that their industry couldn't sustain.  Add the corrupt and incompetent politicians that control Detroit and Michigan and you have the witch's brew that brought down a power house state.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ventor,

 Unions typically negotiate contracts from the standpoint of using executive compensation as the baseline for workers pay. Corporations like GM, Ford, Chrysler are not any different than any other corp. They are managed for the purpose of making money for those at the top with little regard for those at the bottom.

  The more executives are compensated, the more the union demands. If a company makes a lot of money, they don't lower the price of the cars, and they don't give the extra money to the workers, they pay themselves big bonuses. So if you have a problem with union pay, don't blame the union, it is the corp. executives who abuse the system. You can't blame a hard working family man for wanting the piece of the pie produced by his labor.

  Remember, "Without the strength of oxen, there is no increase". 

More charts on income inequality at:

http://www.businessinsider.com...y-about-2011-10?op=1

I read this statistic in the Wall Street Journal sometime in the summer of 1984, and it has stuck with me ever since. Paraphrasing:

Since 1979, at General Motors ...

Employment has dropped 5%;

Labor costs have increased 3%;

Productivity per worker has increased 15%;

And prices of new cars has increased 25%.

Which means that, making up a hypothetical example, if GM had in 1979 1,000 workers producing 1000 cars per day at a labor cost of $100 per worker per day (total = $100,000), and sold those cars for $10,000 each (total = $10,000,000), and excluding all other expenses, the profit would be a hypothetical $9,900,000.

By 1984 950 workers were producing 1150 cars at a labor cost of $103 per worker per day (total = $97,850), and sold those cars for $12,500 each (14,375,000), and excluding all other expenses, the profit would be a hypothetical $14,277,150.

That is a profit increase of around 68% ($4,375,000), of which 50 fewer workers (-$5000) were receiving an increase of 3% ($97,850). The company paid an extra $92,850 to its employees to make an extra $4,375,000 to pay out in bonuses.

Also, in 1981 General Motors lost money for the first time in its history. Alarm bells went off, and the company asked the union for a special 2-year contract with concessions from workers worth $3.5 billion to help overcome the crisis.

GM agreed to link wage concessions to reductions in the price of its vehicles,[21] but this was not part of the eventual agreement.[25] The contract concessions were (at the time) the largest ever made to GM.[25] The workers agreed to forgo an annual 3 percent wage increase, eliminated nine paid holidays over the next two years, deferred cost of living adjustments in the first three months of the contract to the final three quarters of the contract, established a wage tier that paid new employees 20 percent less, and implemented fines for chronic absenteeism.[25] The union also agreed to negotiate over work rules at the local level.[25] In return, GM agreed to keep four plants open which it had planned to close, agreed to a two-year moratorium on plant closings, established profit sharing, established a prepaid legal service program for its employees, and promised that if it laid off workers with 15 years or more of job experience it would pay them 50 percent of their annual salary.[25] The pact was only narrowly approved, however (114,468 for and 105,090 against), even though UAW members at Ford Motor Company had approved a similar pact by a 3-to-1 margin.[25]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...r#cite_note-Bonus-25

[Then, after the contract with $3.5 billion of concessions was approved, the executive board wanted a special meeting of the board of directors to approve big bonuses – for saving the company a lot ofmoney!]

Implementing the contract proved troublesome, however. Just days after the pact was approved by UAW members, GM attempted to give its executives large pay bonuses.[26] Bieber angrily denounced the pay plan,[26] and GM backed off the proposal just two days later.[27] The damage was done, however. Bieber began local bargaining over the work rules, but angry workers refused to negotiate any changes and bargaining ended in July 1982 with no changes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...r#cite_note-Bonus-25 

Here an excellent example of an illiterate post, which falls desperately short of coherence, let alone a complete sentence. He is trying to say something, but it just doesn't quite make it. Perhaps, he would like to try again.

Didn't Ford (Union) have a plant in the Shoals at one time?

GONE.