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There's the story on the internet about the English girl that wanted to wear a purity ring to her school, but the school forbids all jewelry, including those of a religious expression nature. What do you think?

Are these rings kind of dubious?

Has the school overstepped its bounds?

Lord knows, we have a history of Florence schools wishing to overregulate their students. It seems to me that kids should have some leeway, even with "I [heart] [the Superintendent] shirts.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." -- Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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quote:
Originally posted by Elvis Wearing a Bra on Head:
There's the story on the internet about the English girl that wanted to wear a purity ring to her school, but the school forbids all jewelry, including those of a religious expression nature. What do you think?

Are these rings kind of dubious?

Has the school overstepped its bounds?

Lord knows, we have a history of Florence schools wishing to overregulate their students. It seems to me that kids should have some leeway, even with "I [heart] [the Superintendent] shirts.

If there is a rule and it says "no jewelry", then don't wear any, period. It doesn't matter if it's religious or not. It's a rule. It's not an attack on her belief. They are not making her do anything to compromise her purity. Geez. It's just a ring.
Is the purity ring duibious? Do not send her out with a purity ring and a tight Tee or one of those blouses cut to the navel. You are delivering a terrible tease message and putting a bind on her and any male aquaintance. Do not let her stay out until the wee hours thinking all she has to do is twist the ring at the moment of decision. Hormones can overpower dinner with mamma and a little gold band any time. The girls are not bad----they are subject to rough basic human physical pressures. Momma, you have been hot and bothered or she would not be here. Think about it!!!
quote:
Originally posted by ed6438:
I'm against uniforms and overregimentation.

But, seriously, the t-shirt was surely ironic. It's hard to love a school administrator!


As a life-long educator, I agree 100%! Uniforms, IMO, stifle a child's INDIVIDUALITY and CREATIVITY. Uniforms also send the WRONG message regarding 'learning to cope' with OTHER people's self-expression. I am sick of every 'wanna-be king/queen' attempting to legislate every waking minute of kids' lives.
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:
Originally posted by ed6438:
I'm against uniforms and overregimentation.

But, seriously, the t-shirt was surely ironic. It's hard to love a school administrator!


As a life-long educator, I agree 100%! Uniforms, IMO, stifle a child's INDIVIDUALITY and CREATIVITY. Uniforms also send the WRONG message regarding 'learning to cope' with OTHER people's self-expression. I am sick of every 'wanna-be king/queen' attempting to legislate every waking minute of kids' lives.


Kids do not wear the uniforms 24/7. Individual expression is NOT squelched. They could develop OPINIONS and reason to take the place of clothes as a way to display their individuality. For me any effort to make school a place of learning instead of a fashion show competition is far more important than any imagined benefit of self expression.
'Imagined'? In the 23 years I've spent as a teacher and administrator I can recall NO time when a student's clothing was a determining factor in any incident.

Uniforms are a 'CYA' approach used by school adminstrators less inclined to discipline students exhibiting 'bullying' behaviors. Changing one's clothing does little to nothing to prevent bullying. Rather than choosing to confront the issue of bullying HEAD ON, some school systems try a 'blanket approach'. Such an approach is more 'lawyer proof' (CYA???). Heaven forbid a school actually confront OR punish a bully....
Amen to no uniforms. It is time for all of us instead of conforming to uniforms to resist the trash that is out there for our children to wear. I am the mother of a 3 year old and find it terribly offensive to have to search through clothing to make sure sexy or hot is not on the back of her pants.

More parents need to look at what their children are wearing and think 'not on my child'. It is inappropriate for a child that is under the age of 18 or 21 respectfully to wear a tabacco or alcohol related shirt. The same for any type of drug referenced shirt or item.
Last year the Florence School system put a dress code into effect that was a joke. Instead of a simple...nothing on the butt, or anything not age appropriate, we went into a long list of shirts must be tucked and only Florence Spirit logo's were approved and then they could not be x" in size. Lets get real Administrators. Go out to a store and find non logo t-shirts in a size 5 or 6. Is batman, dora or spiderman really that offensive? Make the kids pull up their pants or send them home. As a working parent, I assure you that if my son or daughter where ever sent home for inappropriate dress it would be the one and only time.

Let kids express themselves if it is positive. What are we as a society so afraid of? Are parents today really so incapable of taking care of their own children, or is it because the support system doesn't go both ways. Parents don't want to take responsibility for their children and administrators don't want to discipline the kids. Everyone parents and administrators alike need to support teachers and schools. (Steps off her soap box))
I'm against uniforms, although I can understand the good intent that some people have regarding the leveling of possible social class differences or the discouragement of inappropriate dress in the school setting. I'm not for bad taste! However, there might an overestimation as to its being a problem in real life. Barring that, some schools or teachers love to try to act in loco parentis.

quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
I'm against uniforms, although I can understand the good intent that some people have regarding the leveling of possible social class differences or the discouragement of inappropriate dress in the school setting. I'm not for bad taste! However, there might an overestimation as to its being a problem in real life. Barring that, some schools or teachers love to try to act in loco parentis.



LEGALLY, teachers ARE considered "in loco parentis"....but that fact doesn't automatically dispense them with wisdom.
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Exactly. Children who attend schools where uniforms are required perform better and behavioral problems are fewer.



I totally agree!!!!

I also agree about any jewelry since we knew a young lady that had her nice engagement ring stolen from gym class. She never saw it again. It would have been better if she had of left it at home every morning and she would have still had it.
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I believe in uniforms for ALL schools. No jewelry - or regulated at least. Uniforms are cheaper for parents and a great social equalizer.


Mean, I totally agree. Just look what school uniforms did for Dekalb County Schools. After they implemented their uniform policy (Dress for Success) the test scores went up and discipline problems went down.

Kids need to learn that every walk of life has a uniform. From the guys at McDonalds to the bankers to the Technical Data Analysts (that'd be me) we all have a dress code.
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
Amen to no uniforms. It is time for all of us instead of conforming to uniforms to resist the trash that is out there for our children to wear. I am the mother of a 3 year old and find it terribly offensive to have to search through clothing to make sure sexy or hot is not on the back of her pants.

More parents need to look at what their children are wearing and think 'not on my child'. It is inappropriate for a child that is under the age of 18 or 21 respectfully to wear a tabacco or alcohol related shirt. The same for any type of drug referenced shirt or item.
Last year the Florence School system put a dress code into effect that was a joke. Instead of a simple...nothing on the butt, or anything not age appropriate, we went into a long list of shirts must be tucked and only Florence Spirit logo's were approved and then they could not be x" in size. Lets get real Administrators. Go out to a store and find non logo t-shirts in a size 5 or 6. Is batman, dora or spiderman really that offensive? Make the kids pull up their pants or send them home. As a working parent, I assure you that if my son or daughter where ever sent home for inappropriate dress it would be the one and only time.

Let kids express themselves if it is positive. What are we as a society so afraid of? Are parents today really so incapable of taking care of their own children, or is it because the support system doesn't go both ways. Parents don't want to take responsibility for their children and administrators don't want to discipline the kids. Everyone parents and administrators alike need to support teachers and schools. (Steps off her soap box))


You can find shirts without logos, and pants right in the Shoals. My daughter's school uniform policy was:
Solid navy or khaki pants (no jeans) no more than the standard 5 pockets (no cargos) no contrast stitching, no logos, and no embellishments.
Shorts must be no more than 2" above the knee when the child is seated.
Girls may wear skirts or a jumper as long as it covers the knee when seated.
Solid red, white, or navy shirt. Shirts may be polo style or oxford. Girls may wear a peter-pan style collar. Shirts are to have no logos, contrast stitching, pockets, or embellishments.
Any jacket or sweater worn into the school must be solid red, white, or navy. No logos or embellishments.
Students are to wear sneakers or tennis shoes each day.

Where oh where did I buy her school clothes? At Martin's in Florence, AL on Cox Creek Parkway. It is really not a big deal. We spent a fraction of what we spend now that she is at a school that does not have a uniform policy. Getting dressed for school was simple and stress free. I believe that the school day goes much smoother when the emphasis is on teaching and any distractions such as clothes and jewelry are kept to a minimum.
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:

Mean, I totally agree. Just look what school uniforms did for Dekalb County Schools. After they implemented their uniform policy (Dress for Success) the test scores went up and discipline problems went down.



I'd wager that there was MORE to their success than mere uniforms. I'd wager that they had a STRICT discipline code in place and used it. If 'it' was simply a matter of uniforms, the mere act of clothing inmates in uniforms would suffice with regards to correctional facilities (institutions), but it isn't as simple as that.

"F a c i l i t i e s" is censored???? Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
You can find shirts without logos, and pants right in the Shoals. My daughter's school uniform policy was:
Solid navy or khaki pants (no jeans) no more than the standard 5 pockets (no cargos) no contrast stitching, no logos, and no embellishments.
Shorts must be no more than 2" above the knee when the child is seated.
Girls may wear skirts or a jumper as long as it covers the knee when seated.
Solid red, white, or navy shirt. Shirts may be polo style or oxford. Girls may wear a peter-pan style collar. Shirts are to have no logos, contrast stitching, pockets, or embellishments.
Any jacket or sweater worn into the school must be solid red, white, or navy. No logos or embellishments.
Students are to wear sneakers or tennis shoes each day.

Where oh where did I buy her school clothes? At Martin's in Florence, AL on Cox Creek Parkway. It is really not a big deal. We spent a fraction of what we spend now that she is at a school that does not have a uniform policy. Getting dressed for school was simple and stress free. I believe that the school day goes much smoother when the emphasis is on teaching and any distractions such as clothes and jewelry are kept to a minimum.



TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler

I am sure it makes teachers jobs easier too.. I see nothing at all wrong with this, in fact, I can see where it could actually make it to where kids LEARN from school instead of using it as a social session...
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler


Ya'll get ready, the apocalypse is coming! Smiler

Note to DogSoldier: they did not have a very strict discipline policy, but they did have a very strict parent involvement policy. Off the top of my head, I think it was 10 hours per semester, per family. You could get up to 1/2 of your hours by donating stuff. So I had to be AT the school for 5 hours per semester. If I had been married, we could have split it he did 2.5 and I take 2.5 hours. Anyways. You could get your 5 hours by going to PTO meetings, Parent/Teacher conferences, supervising the kiddies in the lunchroom, going on field trips, helping out with the school website, working in the office - making copies and answering the phones, etc. You could get your donations by sending in a ream of copy paper, stuff off of the teacher's wishlist like dry erase markers or construction paper or whatever, cutting out bulletin board stuff (the teacher would send a packet home with your child), participating in Paint & Plant Day (school beautification), etc.

In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school. I think that is a major mistake. The kids just act better when they see their peer's parents on the premises. It gives them another realm of accountability. If they act up, the teacher might tell their mama, but their buddy's mom (or aunt or cousin or friend) will most certainly tell their mama! The accountability + uniforms = much better school environment.
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
20-30 years ago, when a LOT of us were in public schools...SANS UNIFORMS....WHY did the schools WORK? EASY...it was the DISCIPLINE. NOT the clothing.



dogsoldier, you are totally correct in what you are saying, but you are forgetting that they have done away with discipline in schools (inhumane) and if parents inflicts any sort of discipline then they are labelled ABUSERS... so the only thing left here is the dress codes... that is a small step forward in a messed up society.

There is nothing wrong with dress codes, and uniforms... just what TSC said above, there is a little bit of leniency, but yet it is simple, and easy to do, probably a lot cheaper too...

In OUR day and time, we got in trouble at school, we got in trouble at home too... but those days are gone forever... so now we have to reach out and seek other ways.
dogsoldier, when I was in school, girls could only wear knee length dresses.. NO PANTS, NO SHORTS, and the neckline had to be well over the cleavage. In all of my 12 years of school I NEVER wore anything but dresses.... now college was an eye opener, lol.

Boys could only wear dress pants and shirts, and their hair could not be any longer than the short end of the (THEN) drivers license.

We had codes that was strictly followed, and we had discipline to go with it, schools back then were for getting an education, not for social circles... it went way the OTHER way for quite a few years... so with the new codes most schools are going with just might be the pendelum stopping in the middle??
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler


Ya'll get ready, the apocalypse is coming! Smiler

Note to DogSoldier: they did not have a very strict discipline policy, but they did have a very strict parent involvement policy. Off the top of my head, I think it was 10 hours per semester, per family. You could get up to 1/2 of your hours by donating stuff. So I had to be AT the school for 5 hours per semester. If I had been married, we could have split it he did 2.5 and I take 2.5 hours. Anyways. You could get your 5 hours by going to PTO meetings, Parent/Teacher conferences, supervising the kiddies in the lunchroom, going on field trips, helping out with the school website, working in the office - making copies and answering the phones, etc. You could get your donations by sending in a ream of copy paper, stuff off of the teacher's wishlist like dry erase markers or construction paper or whatever, cutting out bulletin board stuff (the teacher would send a packet home with your child), participating in Paint & Plant Day (school beautification), etc.

In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school. I think that is a major mistake. The kids just act better when they see their peer's parents on the premises. It gives them another realm of accountability. If they act up, the teacher might tell their mama, but their buddy's mom (or aunt or cousin or friend) will most certainly tell their mama! The accountability + uniforms = much better school environment.



Hey, nothing wrong with agreeing with ya!! I think we just have to learn to AGREE to DISAGREE on certain topics, huh? Apocaplypse? LOL.. good one!!!

But hey, I am trying!!!
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
'Imagined'? In the 23 years I've spent as a teacher and administrator I can recall NO time when a student's clothing was a determining factor in any incident.


Your "23 years" probably happened in slightly more innocent times.

My gosh, people, 5th grade girls were being sent to school wearing mini dresses up past their cracks!

Guys wore pants around their knees. If that is not a "distraction" then I don't know what is.

Their may or may not be a case for uniforms increasing school performance. I don't really feel like researching the matter at the moment. But there is no doubt that modern dress styles were degenerating to the point of sheerr insanity. What the h3ll are parents thinking these days!

Something had to be done. A strict "school uniform" was preferred but the stupid parents got so worked up about it that Florence was left with the convoluted patchwork of codes we have now. It's better that what we had.

And, for the record, I have a child in the Florence city school system.
I do agree that kids are going to need to learn that in life there are going to be situations they'll have to face where they are not the best dressed, not the smartest, not the prettiest, not the richest. I think we're just insulating the kids from reality. Then when they're out on their own they feel like they
"deserve" what everybody else has without working for it. May explain the carjackings, purse snatching and mugging, huh?
And, let me get on my soap box for a second.

If we send our children, boys or girls, but this pertains mainly to girls, dressed like little hookers (or doxies, or strumpets) with their coochies hovering a milimeter below the waist band of her shorts, her little boobies showing through a thin t shirt, halter tops, bellies showing, butt cracks shing, coochie cutter pants, make up at 12 years old with "Juicy" on her butt, or a hoochie mama outfit on, WHY are we surprised when some twisted man looks at them as fair game? If you stop sexualizing your infant daughters and/or young daughters you are at least doing your part in keeping some nut job from sexualing them.

I can't imagine a father thinking this is ok, and maybe I'm wrong (and I'll back up if I am0 but I always feel that a little hoochie mama girl has a wish-I-had-been-cute or my-cute-days-are-long-gone mama paying for those clothes.
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school.


If, by "north Alabama," you mean Florence, I will have to strongly disagree.

I'm deeply involved in this as a parent with a child in the system.

Starting in elementary school, parents are practically begged to participate in school activities. Parents generally ignore the requests.

My child is in middle school now. The begging to get involved has slowed down a little. Perhaps they give up after a while but they are always very grateful for the help and support I am able to provide.

I cannot say enough good things about the administration at Florence Middle School so don't get me started.

That said, teachers are human, too. I'm sure many of them would rather the stupid, toothless parents just stay home and let let the teachers do the best they can.
Note to those that said you can buy logo free clothing. Yes you are right you can buy logo free clothing and that is what we have done for my children.
But if you read the Florence Dress Code it went as far as to say that children could not wear the same color pants or shirt. (How many Girl outfits have matching pants and tops?) That all shirts must be solid color, changed after to many parents protested, to include stripes,tucked in and that any sweaters or over garments must be solid in color.

My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple. Dresses cover the knees, short no more than 2" above the knee. No in appropriate logos. Above all administrators need to be fair and impartial. Dr Doe's son should not be allowed to wear what he wants when Ms Doe's son is sent home because of money or social status difference. Many woman's shirts are not made to tuck in and many kids hide what they consider to be inperfections in their body by letting a shirt hang over the waste of their pants.

Not to the girl engaged that lost her ring...that might be a different subject all together.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school.


If, by "north Alabama," you mean Florence, I will have to strongly disagree.

I'm deeply involved in this as a parent with a child in the system.

Starting in elementary school, parents are practically begged to participate in school activities. Parents generally ignore the requests.

My child is in middle school now. The begging to get involved has slowed down a little. Perhaps they give up after a while but they are always very grateful for the help and support I am able to provide.

I cannot say enough good things about the administration at Florence Middle School so don't get me started.

That said, teachers are human, too. I'm sure many of them would rather the stupid, toothless parents just stay home and let let the teachers do the best they can.


I disagree totally with you. My children are nearly out of the elementary school system and though k-2 asked for parent involvment, 3rd grade was give us your donations and keep your opinions to yourself.
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the ****ty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.

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