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On Purity Rings

Elvis Wearing a Bra on HeadElvis Wearing a Bra on HeadHall of Famer
There's the story on the internet about the English girl that wanted to wear a purity ring to her school, but the school forbids all jewelry, including those of a religious expression nature. What do you think?

Are these rings kind of dubious?

Has the school overstepped its bounds?

Lord knows, we have a history of Florence schools wishing to overregulate their students. It seems to me that kids should have some leeway, even with "I [heart] [the Superintendent] shirts.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." -- Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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outspokenjerkoutspokenjerkHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Elvis Wearing a Bra on Head:
There's the story on the internet about the English girl that wanted to wear a purity ring to her school, but the school forbids all jewelry, including those of a religious expression nature. What do you think?

Are these rings kind of dubious?

Has the school overstepped its bounds?

Lord knows, we have a history of Florence schools wishing to overregulate their students. It seems to me that kids should have some leeway, even with "I [heart] [the Superintendent] shirts.

If there is a rule and it says "no jewelry", then don't wear any, period. It doesn't matter if it's religious or not. It's a rule. It's not an attack on her belief. They are not making her do anything to compromise her purity. Geez. It's just a ring.
earthmommaearthmommaOld Faithful
Is the purity ring duibious? Do not send her out with a purity ring and a tight Tee or one of those blouses cut to the navel. You are delivering a terrible tease message and putting a bind on her and any male aquaintance. Do not let her stay out until the wee hours thinking all she has to do is twist the ring at the moment of decision. Hormones can overpower dinner with mamma and a little gold band any time. The girls are not bad----they are subject to rough basic human physical pressures. Momma, you have been hot and bothered or she would not be here. Think about it!!!
dogsoldier0513dogsoldier0513Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by ed6438:
I'm against uniforms and overregimentation.

But, seriously, the t-shirt was surely ironic. It's hard to love a school administrator!


As a life-long educator, I agree 100%! Uniforms, IMO, stifle a child's INDIVIDUALITY and CREATIVITY. Uniforms also send the WRONG message regarding 'learning to cope' with OTHER people's self-expression. I am sick of every 'wanna-be king/queen' attempting to legislate every waking minute of kids' lives.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:
Originally posted by ed6438:
I'm against uniforms and overregimentation.

But, seriously, the t-shirt was surely ironic. It's hard to love a school administrator!


As a life-long educator, I agree 100%! Uniforms, IMO, stifle a child's INDIVIDUALITY and CREATIVITY. Uniforms also send the WRONG message regarding 'learning to cope' with OTHER people's self-expression. I am sick of every 'wanna-be king/queen' attempting to legislate every waking minute of kids' lives.


Kids do not wear the uniforms 24/7. Individual expression is NOT squelched. They could develop OPINIONS and reason to take the place of clothes as a way to display their individuality. For me any effort to make school a place of learning instead of a fashion show competition is far more important than any imagined benefit of self expression.
dogsoldier0513dogsoldier0513Old Faithful
'Imagined'? In the 23 years I've spent as a teacher and administrator I can recall NO time when a student's clothing was a determining factor in any incident.

Uniforms are a 'CYA' approach used by school adminstrators less inclined to discipline students exhibiting 'bullying' behaviors. Changing one's clothing does little to nothing to prevent bullying. Rather than choosing to confront the issue of bullying HEAD ON, some school systems try a 'blanket approach'. Such an approach is more 'lawyer proof' (CYA???). Heaven forbid a school actually confront OR punish a bully....
B bamamom196807Small Talker
Amen to no uniforms. It is time for all of us instead of conforming to uniforms to resist the trash that is out there for our children to wear. I am the mother of a 3 year old and find it terribly offensive to have to search through clothing to make sure sexy or hot is not on the back of her pants.

More parents need to look at what their children are wearing and think 'not on my child'. It is inappropriate for a child that is under the age of 18 or 21 respectfully to wear a tabacco or alcohol related shirt. The same for any type of drug referenced shirt or item.
Last year the Florence School system put a dress code into effect that was a joke. Instead of a simple...nothing on the butt, or anything not age appropriate, we went into a long list of shirts must be tucked and only Florence Spirit logo's were approved and then they could not be x" in size. Lets get real Administrators. Go out to a store and find non logo t-shirts in a size 5 or 6. Is batman, dora or spiderman really that offensive? Make the kids pull up their pants or send them home. As a working parent, I assure you that if my son or daughter where ever sent home for inappropriate dress it would be the one and only time.

Let kids express themselves if it is positive. What are we as a society so afraid of? Are parents today really so incapable of taking care of their own children, or is it because the support system doesn't go both ways. Parents don't want to take responsibility for their children and administrators don't want to discipline the kids. Everyone parents and administrators alike need to support teachers and schools. (Steps off her soap box))
Princess LumPrincess LumFamiliar Face
I'm against uniforms, although I can understand the good intent that some people have regarding the leveling of possible social class differences or the discouragement of inappropriate dress in the school setting. I'm not for bad taste! However, there might an overestimation as to its being a problem in real life. Barring that, some schools or teachers love to try to act in loco parentis.
dogsoldier0513dogsoldier0513Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
I'm against uniforms, although I can understand the good intent that some people have regarding the leveling of possible social class differences or the discouragement of inappropriate dress in the school setting. I'm not for bad taste! However, there might an overestimation as to its being a problem in real life. Barring that, some schools or teachers love to try to act in loco parentis.


LEGALLY, teachers ARE considered "in loco parentis"....but that fact doesn't automatically dispense them with wisdom.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Exactly. Children who attend schools where uniforms are required perform better and behavioral problems are fewer.



I totally agree!!!!

I also agree about any jewelry since we knew a young lady that had her nice engagement ring stolen from gym class. She never saw it again. It would have been better if she had of left it at home every morning and she would have still had it.
T S CT S COld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I believe in uniforms for ALL schools. No jewelry - or regulated at least. Uniforms are cheaper for parents and a great social equalizer.


Mean, I totally agree. Just look what school uniforms did for Dekalb County Schools. After they implemented their uniform policy (Dress for Success) the test scores went up and discipline problems went down.

Kids need to learn that every walk of life has a uniform. From the guys at McDonalds to the bankers to the Technical Data Analysts (that'd be me) we all have a dress code.
T S CT S COld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
Amen to no uniforms. It is time for all of us instead of conforming to uniforms to resist the trash that is out there for our children to wear. I am the mother of a 3 year old and find it terribly offensive to have to search through clothing to make sure sexy or hot is not on the back of her pants.

More parents need to look at what their children are wearing and think 'not on my child'. It is inappropriate for a child that is under the age of 18 or 21 respectfully to wear a tabacco or alcohol related shirt. The same for any type of drug referenced shirt or item.
Last year the Florence School system put a dress code into effect that was a joke. Instead of a simple...nothing on the butt, or anything not age appropriate, we went into a long list of shirts must be tucked and only Florence Spirit logo's were approved and then they could not be x" in size. Lets get real Administrators. Go out to a store and find non logo t-shirts in a size 5 or 6. Is batman, dora or spiderman really that offensive? Make the kids pull up their pants or send them home. As a working parent, I assure you that if my son or daughter where ever sent home for inappropriate dress it would be the one and only time.

Let kids express themselves if it is positive. What are we as a society so afraid of? Are parents today really so incapable of taking care of their own children, or is it because the support system doesn't go both ways. Parents don't want to take responsibility for their children and administrators don't want to discipline the kids. Everyone parents and administrators alike need to support teachers and schools. (Steps off her soap box))


You can find shirts without logos, and pants right in the Shoals. My daughter's school uniform policy was:
Solid navy or khaki pants (no jeans) no more than the standard 5 pockets (no cargos) no contrast stitching, no logos, and no embellishments.
Shorts must be no more than 2" above the knee when the child is seated.
Girls may wear skirts or a jumper as long as it covers the knee when seated.
Solid red, white, or navy shirt. Shirts may be polo style or oxford. Girls may wear a peter-pan style collar. Shirts are to have no logos, contrast stitching, pockets, or embellishments.
Any jacket or sweater worn into the school must be solid red, white, or navy. No logos or embellishments.
Students are to wear sneakers or tennis shoes each day.

Where oh where did I buy her school clothes? At Martin's in Florence, AL on Cox Creek Parkway. It is really not a big deal. We spent a fraction of what we spend now that she is at a school that does not have a uniform policy. Getting dressed for school was simple and stress free. I believe that the school day goes much smoother when the emphasis is on teaching and any distractions such as clothes and jewelry are kept to a minimum.
dogsoldier0513dogsoldier0513Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:

Mean, I totally agree. Just look what school uniforms did for Dekalb County Schools. After they implemented their uniform policy (Dress for Success) the test scores went up and discipline problems went down.



I'd wager that there was MORE to their success than mere uniforms. I'd wager that they had a STRICT discipline code in place and used it. If 'it' was simply a matter of uniforms, the mere act of clothing inmates in uniforms would suffice with regards to correctional facilities (institutions), but it isn't as simple as that.

"F a c i l i t i e s" is censored???? Roll Eyes
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
You can find shirts without logos, and pants right in the Shoals. My daughter's school uniform policy was:
Solid navy or khaki pants (no jeans) no more than the standard 5 pockets (no cargos) no contrast stitching, no logos, and no embellishments.
Shorts must be no more than 2" above the knee when the child is seated.
Girls may wear skirts or a jumper as long as it covers the knee when seated.
Solid red, white, or navy shirt. Shirts may be polo style or oxford. Girls may wear a peter-pan style collar. Shirts are to have no logos, contrast stitching, pockets, or embellishments.
Any jacket or sweater worn into the school must be solid red, white, or navy. No logos or embellishments.
Students are to wear sneakers or tennis shoes each day.

Where oh where did I buy her school clothes? At Martin's in Florence, AL on Cox Creek Parkway. It is really not a big deal. We spent a fraction of what we spend now that she is at a school that does not have a uniform policy. Getting dressed for school was simple and stress free. I believe that the school day goes much smoother when the emphasis is on teaching and any distractions such as clothes and jewelry are kept to a minimum.



TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler

I am sure it makes teachers jobs easier too.. I see nothing at all wrong with this, in fact, I can see where it could actually make it to where kids LEARN from school instead of using it as a social session...
T S CT S COld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler


Ya'll get ready, the apocalypse is coming! Smiler

Note to DogSoldier: they did not have a very strict discipline policy, but they did have a very strict parent involvement policy. Off the top of my head, I think it was 10 hours per semester, per family. You could get up to 1/2 of your hours by donating stuff. So I had to be AT the school for 5 hours per semester. If I had been married, we could have split it he did 2.5 and I take 2.5 hours. Anyways. You could get your 5 hours by going to PTO meetings, Parent/Teacher conferences, supervising the kiddies in the lunchroom, going on field trips, helping out with the school website, working in the office - making copies and answering the phones, etc. You could get your donations by sending in a ream of copy paper, stuff off of the teacher's wishlist like dry erase markers or construction paper or whatever, cutting out bulletin board stuff (the teacher would send a packet home with your child), participating in Paint & Plant Day (school beautification), etc.

In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school. I think that is a major mistake. The kids just act better when they see their peer's parents on the premises. It gives them another realm of accountability. If they act up, the teacher might tell their mama, but their buddy's mom (or aunt or cousin or friend) will most certainly tell their mama! The accountability + uniforms = much better school environment.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
20-30 years ago, when a LOT of us were in public schools...SANS UNIFORMS....WHY did the schools WORK? EASY...it was the DISCIPLINE. NOT the clothing.



dogsoldier, you are totally correct in what you are saying, but you are forgetting that they have done away with discipline in schools (inhumane) and if parents inflicts any sort of discipline then they are labelled ABUSERS... so the only thing left here is the dress codes... that is a small step forward in a messed up society.

There is nothing wrong with dress codes, and uniforms... just what TSC said above, there is a little bit of leniency, but yet it is simple, and easy to do, probably a lot cheaper too...

In OUR day and time, we got in trouble at school, we got in trouble at home too... but those days are gone forever... so now we have to reach out and seek other ways.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
dogsoldier, when I was in school, girls could only wear knee length dresses.. NO PANTS, NO SHORTS, and the neckline had to be well over the cleavage. In all of my 12 years of school I NEVER wore anything but dresses.... now college was an eye opener, lol.

Boys could only wear dress pants and shirts, and their hair could not be any longer than the short end of the (THEN) drivers license.

We had codes that was strictly followed, and we had discipline to go with it, schools back then were for getting an education, not for social circles... it went way the OTHER way for quite a few years... so with the new codes most schools are going with just might be the pendelum stopping in the middle??
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
TSC, I actually agree with every word you just typed!!! Those are good policies, simple, but plain, and makes shopping much easier... Smiler


Ya'll get ready, the apocalypse is coming! Smiler

Note to DogSoldier: they did not have a very strict discipline policy, but they did have a very strict parent involvement policy. Off the top of my head, I think it was 10 hours per semester, per family. You could get up to 1/2 of your hours by donating stuff. So I had to be AT the school for 5 hours per semester. If I had been married, we could have split it he did 2.5 and I take 2.5 hours. Anyways. You could get your 5 hours by going to PTO meetings, Parent/Teacher conferences, supervising the kiddies in the lunchroom, going on field trips, helping out with the school website, working in the office - making copies and answering the phones, etc. You could get your donations by sending in a ream of copy paper, stuff off of the teacher's wishlist like dry erase markers or construction paper or whatever, cutting out bulletin board stuff (the teacher would send a packet home with your child), participating in Paint & Plant Day (school beautification), etc.

In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school. I think that is a major mistake. The kids just act better when they see their peer's parents on the premises. It gives them another realm of accountability. If they act up, the teacher might tell their mama, but their buddy's mom (or aunt or cousin or friend) will most certainly tell their mama! The accountability + uniforms = much better school environment.



Hey, nothing wrong with agreeing with ya!! I think we just have to learn to AGREE to DISAGREE on certain topics, huh? Apocaplypse? LOL.. good one!!!

But hey, I am trying!!!
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
'Imagined'? In the 23 years I've spent as a teacher and administrator I can recall NO time when a student's clothing was a determining factor in any incident.


Your "23 years" probably happened in slightly more innocent times.

My gosh, people, 5th grade girls were being sent to school wearing mini dresses up past their cracks!

Guys wore pants around their knees. If that is not a "distraction" then I don't know what is.

Their may or may not be a case for uniforms increasing school performance. I don't really feel like researching the matter at the moment. But there is no doubt that modern dress styles were degenerating to the point of sheerr insanity. What the h3ll are parents thinking these days!

Something had to be done. A strict "school uniform" was preferred but the stupid parents got so worked up about it that Florence was left with the convoluted patchwork of codes we have now. It's better that what we had.

And, for the record, I have a child in the Florence city school system.
V vick13Old Faithful
I do agree that kids are going to need to learn that in life there are going to be situations they'll have to face where they are not the best dressed, not the smartest, not the prettiest, not the richest. I think we're just insulating the kids from reality. Then when they're out on their own they feel like they
"deserve" what everybody else has without working for it. May explain the carjackings, purse snatching and mugging, huh?
V vick13Old Faithful
And, let me get on my soap box for a second.

If we send our children, boys or girls, but this pertains mainly to girls, dressed like little hookers (or doxies, or strumpets) with their coochies hovering a milimeter below the waist band of her shorts, her little boobies showing through a thin t shirt, halter tops, bellies showing, butt cracks shing, coochie cutter pants, make up at 12 years old with "Juicy" on her butt, or a hoochie mama outfit on, WHY are we surprised when some twisted man looks at them as fair game? If you stop sexualizing your infant daughters and/or young daughters you are at least doing your part in keeping some nut job from sexualing them.

I can't imagine a father thinking this is ok, and maybe I'm wrong (and I'll back up if I am0 but I always feel that a little hoochie mama girl has a wish-I-had-been-cute or my-cute-days-are-long-gone mama paying for those clothes.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school.


If, by "north Alabama," you mean Florence, I will have to strongly disagree.

I'm deeply involved in this as a parent with a child in the system.

Starting in elementary school, parents are practically begged to participate in school activities. Parents generally ignore the requests.

My child is in middle school now. The begging to get involved has slowed down a little. Perhaps they give up after a while but they are always very grateful for the help and support I am able to provide.

I cannot say enough good things about the administration at Florence Middle School so don't get me started.

That said, teachers are human, too. I'm sure many of them would rather the stupid, toothless parents just stay home and let let the teachers do the best they can.
B bamamom196807Small Talker
Note to those that said you can buy logo free clothing. Yes you are right you can buy logo free clothing and that is what we have done for my children.
But if you read the Florence Dress Code it went as far as to say that children could not wear the same color pants or shirt. (How many Girl outfits have matching pants and tops?) That all shirts must be solid color, changed after to many parents protested, to include stripes,tucked in and that any sweaters or over garments must be solid in color.

My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple. Dresses cover the knees, short no more than 2" above the knee. No in appropriate logos. Above all administrators need to be fair and impartial. Dr Doe's son should not be allowed to wear what he wants when Ms Doe's son is sent home because of money or social status difference. Many woman's shirts are not made to tuck in and many kids hide what they consider to be inperfections in their body by letting a shirt hang over the waste of their pants.

Not to the girl engaged that lost her ring...that might be a different subject all together.
B bamamom196807Small Talker
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by that smart chick:
In my experience, the schools in North Alabama don't want the parents anywhere near the school.


If, by "north Alabama," you mean Florence, I will have to strongly disagree.

I'm deeply involved in this as a parent with a child in the system.

Starting in elementary school, parents are practically begged to participate in school activities. Parents generally ignore the requests.

My child is in middle school now. The begging to get involved has slowed down a little. Perhaps they give up after a while but they are always very grateful for the help and support I am able to provide.

I cannot say enough good things about the administration at Florence Middle School so don't get me started.

That said, teachers are human, too. I'm sure many of them would rather the stupid, toothless parents just stay home and let let the teachers do the best they can.


I disagree totally with you. My children are nearly out of the elementary school system and though k-2 asked for parent involvment, 3rd grade was give us your donations and keep your opinions to yourself.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the ****ty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
I disagree totally with you. My children are nearly out of the elementary school system and though k-2 asked for parent involvment, 3rd grade was give us your donations and keep your opinions to yourself.


That's probably the problem. Teachers (or any human, for that matter) don't want your opinions unless they ask for it. They want your help.

We parents have a bad habit of looking out for the best interests of our child only and forget that a teacher has the interests of an entire classroom to deal with.

If you are supportive, generous and sincerely looking to help the teacher and staff then I can't imagine any teacher, administrator or school that would hinder that.

If all you want to do is offer your "opinion" how how nest to educate a classroom, you will be deservedly turned away.

So, I suggest you look in the mirror and give it another try. You child deserves it.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the sIutty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.
Princess LumPrincess LumFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the sIutty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.



Yes, the present Florence Schools dress code is rendolent of the definition of camel: a horse designed by committee. It's confusing, and has many things wrong with it.

But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity. After all, it's really an additional burden to parents to prescribe a uniform that would be totally dorkish and unsuitable for wear after school!
MarianLibrarianMarianLibrarianHall of Famer
I used to be anti-uniform, but after seeing how it works here in Philly, I don't have a strong opinion either way. What does bother me, however, is seeing schools and parents spending a ton of energy on the clothing issue, while ignoring more pressing problems and pretending that uniforms will solve all of the school's problems.

Back to the purity ring issue, I think the school is dumb for banning it and the girl is dumb for wanting to wear it. This whole purity movement creeps me out, especially because the new trend is for girls to "pledge" their virginity to their fathers. Barf.
Purity Balls
just sayingjust sayingHall of Famer
I agree, MarianLibrarian. The purity ball is disturbing to me.

I don't have such a big opinion either about the uniforms. Our school district hasn't went that route yet, but I'd support it if they did. I'd expect to see the same problems some of you are facing though.

As and aside -and totally left field-, I was very proud this morning when my 10 year old son came into the kitchen and threw a red jersey in the garbage. I asked him what he was doing and he said it was his Michael Vick Jersey and he was watching ESPN about the dog fights. He said he wasn't wearing that shirt anymore. It was one of those cool parental moments.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.
outspokenjerkoutspokenjerkHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.


I totally agree, GoFish.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by just saying:
I agree, MarianLibrarian. The purity ball is disturbing to me.

I don't have such a big opinion either about the uniforms. Our school district hasn't went that route yet, but I'd support it if they did. I'd expect to see the same problems some of you are facing though.

As and aside -and totally left field-, I was very proud this morning when my 10 year old son came into the kitchen and threw a red jersey in the garbage. I asked him what he was doing and he said it was his Michael Vick Jersey and he was watching ESPN about the dog fights. He said he wasn't wearing that shirt anymore. It was one of those cool parental moments.


You have done a great job with your child. So far so good. Give him a pat on the back for me. You don't have to tell him why - but you will know.
Princess LumPrincess LumFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.


So we denature school into a setting where we train individuals to be conformists, to avoid taking risks? And maybe also give only the 'right'answers as sanctified by the Baptists or the Church of Christ or the local Democratic Party?

A further impertinent thought: Isn't promulgating dress codes or outlawing "purity rings" also placing "waaaaaaay too much emphasis on appearance"?
D DixieChikOld Faithful
OK -- I am assuming we are all over the age of 18 and most of us over the age of 30 on here for the most part....so I ask...we have been living our dreams, paying for our raising and using our education and experience....

Did the school you went to have uniforms or did you get to wear what you wanted within reason (i.e. shorts 2 in above the knee, no offensive tshirts, no skin showing...etc)?

Did you get to show your individualism in school by learning what you wanted to represent by what you wore?

Did all you do was put your nose in your book and study, study, study...did you not glean any social skills from going to school?

I'm sorry, I think our generation turned out pretty good -- the Bucky Covington song (and I don't care for him, but like the words of the song) "Different World" rings very true...that songs describes a lot of my childhood and life and I think I turned out pretty good...

I agree with Vick -- we are insulating our children and in the future that is going to hurt them more than help them -- they are not going to know how to handle disappointment and problems if we don't let them feel those things today...
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
[color:GREY][b]So we denature school into a setting where we train individuals to be conformists, to avoid taking risks? And maybe also give only the 'right'answers as sanctified by the Baptists or the Church of Christ or the local Democratic Party?


Of course not. We must have boundaries or society will not work. Society will not allow you to wear nose rings, tattoos, mini dresses up past your crack, pants around your ankles and "Goth" crap. Kids need to be taught that. If if the parents won't do it, the schools must.

If you WANT to be an outcast and join your other outcast friends that's fine. The school's job is to make sure you have the brain power to survive once you grow out of that stupid stage (been there, done that, have the scars to show for it).

You are welcomed to practice non-conformity outside the school. I gots no prob' with that.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DixieChik:
Did the school you went to have uniforms or did you get to wear what you wanted within reason (i.e. shorts 2 in above the knee, no offensive tshirts, no skin showing...etc)?


Heck no! I would have revolted against the school if they even thought about it.

quote:
Did you get to show your individualism in school by learning what you wanted to represent by what you wore?


Yep!

quote:
Did all you do was put your nose in your book and study, study, study...did you not glean any social skills from going to school?


I was a pot smoker and a womanizer. There was nothing more important than where I was going to get my next joint/woman. Books came later.

I found that one does not get laid nearly as much of one is a non-conformist so social skills were kind of important. Wink

quote:
I'm sorry, I think our generation turned out pretty good -- the Bucky Covington song (and I don't care for him, but like the words of the song) "Different World" rings very true...that songs describes a lot of my childhood and life and I think I turned out pretty good...


Obviously. However, would you have turned out the same way if your parents allowed you to wear Goth clothes? Did you dress like a prostitute in the FIFTH GRADE?

Do you know any punk rockers who really turned out okay?

SOMEBODY has to set boundaries. If the parents won't, the school is the next best thing. Very sad but true.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.



Yep, you are right... I agree with ya... but don't faint!!! lol
V vick13Old Faithful
We'll probably see more of it as time goes on. Some day that cute little rosebud on your boob will be a long stemmed rose, though.

I don't care what you wear as an adult, as long as I don't have to actually SEE your tatas or hoo hoo's. But it's a competitive world out there. If a nose ring or tattoo sways the HR person from offering you the job you really need and have worked hard to get, wouldn't you be better covering the thing up?
MarianLibrarianMarianLibrarianHall of Famer
Sure, take out the nose ring and cover up the tattoo on job interviews. But I know plenty of people in office jobs who have visible nose rings and/or tattoos. Heck, my personnel manual says that my tattoo is to be covered, but I don't cover it. There's another librarian here with a nose ring. GoFish acts like anyone with a tattoo or nose ring is doomed to a lifetime of Dumpster diving and being an outcast from society.
T S CT S COld Faithful
I work with / have worked with people with tats, peircings, and all manner of individual expression. When they interviewed, I'm sure they covered their "individualism" up. I've seen people show up for an interview with hot pink (or purple) hair and with their eyebrow or lip peirced and / or with visible tattoos. Some places will hire them and some won't. Perhaps their "art" is a good way of weeding out the employers who they don't jive with.

Adults looking for jobs are different from kids learning math. If teachers are spending an hour a day measuring shorts and guys are distracted by the cleavage of the girl next to them and girls are giggling about the guy in front of them whose boxers are showing - then it is time for the schools to step up and implement a dress code because parents obviously do not know what is appropriate attire for their kids to wear to school.

The purity rings, class rings, engagement rings, nose rings, etc. are probably banned as part of an all or nothing policy. It is easier to say "no jewelry" and leave it at that then it is to say "only 2 rings per hand, one bracelet and one wristwatch or two bracelets and no watch, only earrings 3mm or smaller, only one necklace no more than 3" from the base of the neck," etc.

In my experience, the kids adapt to the uniforms quickly and with very few problems. The adults on the other hand...
V vick13Old Faithful
Then there's always that 68 year old Yankee man with plaid bermuda shorts, checked shirt, black dress socks and sandals...

When my prissy little granddaughter was about 18 months old she came to my house wearing plaid crop pants, white eyelet top, white sandals, with her white purse over her wrist, curly blonde hair, tottering from side to side as she walked. We were watching her tottering across my yard when her father said, "She looks like all the little old ladies on the in Florida!"
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
And, let me get on my soap box for a second.

If we send our children, boys or girls, but this pertains mainly to girls, dressed like little hookers (or doxies, or strumpets) with their coochies hovering a milimeter below the waist band of her shorts, her little boobies showing through a thin t shirt, halter tops, bellies showing, butt cracks shing, coochie cutter pants, make up at 12 years old with "Juicy" on her butt, or a hoochie mama outfit on, WHY are we surprised when some twisted man looks at them as fair game? If you stop sexualizing your infant daughters and/or young daughters you are at least doing your part in keeping some nut job from sexualing them.

I can't imagine a father thinking this is ok, and maybe I'm wrong (and I'll back up if I am0 but I always feel that a little hoochie mama girl has a wish-I-had-been-cute or my-cute-days-are-long-gone mama paying for those clothes.



ROFLLLLLLLLLLL, Vick!!!! But REMEMBER NO PURITY RINGS!!!!! hahahahahaha
D DixieChikOld Faithful
I agree that our kids shouldn't dress like hookers and vampires, yes you are correct there should be limits, but when I was in school it was like I said -- no skin/no tummy/showing, shorts no shorter than 2" above the knee, no holey jeans or pants, no offensive t-shirts (offensive, not just a confederate flag, but something that said something offensive like "*&^ you" or whatever), -- other than that, jeans, khakis, skirts/dresses, outfits or whatever were fair game for us to express ourselves with...where we started having dress codes was when parents started getting mad at the educators for NOT letting their kids wear hooker outfits and vampire/goth stuff -- instead of saying "Little Sara you look like a H O - go change your clothes" like my dad would have done -- that dad went to the principal and said, "My daugheter is a hotty and should be able to dress that way." It wasn't the kids that started the trouble -- it was the parents complaining about their kids not having the freedom of expression.
S SeaweedPost Master
I'm kinda glad my 3 sticks are no longer in this fire, but I think when my kids were in school, I would have liked for them to have some kind of uniforms. Seems this would have made our life a lot easier. I don't have any problem with kids wearing jewlery- I always wore a watch to school.

I started reading this thread, and continued reading every single post and still don't know--
WHAT THE HELL IS A PURITY RING?
V vick13Old Faithful
There is this kind of push for girls to pledge to not have sex with anybody till (I suppose) marriage. But the creepy part is they don't just pledge like allegiance to the flag, or their family, or God. They pledge this to their FATHER. As if he is the only one who has a dog in that fight. What about the MOTHER? Or anybody else.

Almost as if the girl had sex it would be using something that belonged to Daddy. Just creepy.
MarianLibrarianMarianLibrarianHall of Famer
From the Wikipedia article, this made me smile:
quote:
Miss Manners' opinion is that "polite society does not recognize such a thing as a chastity ring. It is so polite that it presumes that a lady is chaste unless publicly proven otherwise."[1]


And this made me mad:
quote:
The Silver Ring Thing, a subsidiary of a Pennsylvania Evangelical Church, has received more than $1 million from the government to promote abstinence and to sell its rings in the United States and abroad."
_Joy__Joy_Old Faithful
Well, I'm thankful this wasn't 5 pages on the purity ring. You guys got to talking about school uniforms I see. Smiler

If somebody wants to wear a purity ring, what's it to anybody else? It's like the conversation we can about boob jobs and how it is nobody's business or concern but the one who's body is in question. If a girl wants to remain a virgin until marriage, hopefully avoiding a myriad of diseases, good for her. The ring is a reminder of that pledge when Mr. Hottie 2007 asks her out and she knows what he has in mind. I don't see anything wrong with it.

In the case of this school (in England?), if their rules forbid jewelry, you don't get a pass because your jewelry makes a statement about life choices. Follow the rules, chick, or move to another school that is more lenient. JMHO
MarianLibrarianMarianLibrarianHall of Famer
If someone needs a ring to remind herself to be pure or to show everyone she's pure, that's fine with me. What bothers me about the purity rings, balls, and other merchandise is that someone is capitalizing on this abstinence movement, making money off of it (and getting government money) and convincing parents and teenagers that this purity crap is necessary. Also, the idea of parents bribing their daughters to stay pure with rings and parties bothers me. If someone decides to be pure, fine. Just like everything else (weddings, kids' birthdays), this rite of passage has been hijacked and people are making money off of it.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:
If someone needs a ring to remind herself to be pure or to show everyone she's pure, that's fine with me. What bothers me about the purity rings, balls, and other merchandise is that someone is capitalizing on this abstinence movement, making money off of it (and getting government money) and convincing parents and teenagers that this purity crap is necessary. Also, the idea of parents bribing their daughters to stay pure with rings and parties bothers me. If someone decides to be pure, fine. Just like everything else (weddings, kids' birthdays), this rite of passage has been hijacked and people are making money off of it.



VERY well said... I agree with you there... in fact, I didn't even know what the ring was until someone put a link up about it...

IF they have to have the ring, then they really don't understand the purity issue, huh?

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