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quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
I disagree totally with you. My children are nearly out of the elementary school system and though k-2 asked for parent involvment, 3rd grade was give us your donations and keep your opinions to yourself.


That's probably the problem. Teachers (or any human, for that matter) don't want your opinions unless they ask for it. They want your help.

We parents have a bad habit of looking out for the best interests of our child only and forget that a teacher has the interests of an entire classroom to deal with.

If you are supportive, generous and sincerely looking to help the teacher and staff then I can't imagine any teacher, administrator or school that would hinder that.

If all you want to do is offer your "opinion" how how nest to educate a classroom, you will be deservedly turned away.

So, I suggest you look in the mirror and give it another try. You child deserves it.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the sIutty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by bamamom196807:
My point is that if you are going to issue a dress code that strict then put in a uniform. Other wise make is simple.


Administration TRIED to make it simple. We stupid parents (collectively speaking) put a stop to that.

If you recall, the original proposition was for khaki pants and golf shirts. True "uniforms." I was all for that.

However, parents revolted, attended meetings and put a stop to simplicity so Kendy Behrends held meetings to come up with a compromise between what the school system wanted and what the parents wanted. I attended those meetings.

We ended up with what we have now. It's stupid, convoluted and sometimes doesn't make sense (my child can't wear a North Face jacket? Why?) but it is far superior to the sIutty and ghetto styles were shockingly prevalent before there was a code.



Yes, the present Florence Schools dress code is rendolent of the definition of camel: a horse designed by committee. It's confusing, and has many things wrong with it.

But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity. After all, it's really an additional burden to parents to prescribe a uniform that would be totally dorkish and unsuitable for wear after school!
I used to be anti-uniform, but after seeing how it works here in Philly, I don't have a strong opinion either way. What does bother me, however, is seeing schools and parents spending a ton of energy on the clothing issue, while ignoring more pressing problems and pretending that uniforms will solve all of the school's problems.

Back to the purity ring issue, I think the school is dumb for banning it and the girl is dumb for wanting to wear it. This whole purity movement creeps me out, especially because the new trend is for girls to "pledge" their virginity to their fathers. Barf.
Purity Balls
I agree, MarianLibrarian. The purity ball is disturbing to me.

I don't have such a big opinion either about the uniforms. Our school district hasn't went that route yet, but I'd support it if they did. I'd expect to see the same problems some of you are facing though.

As and aside -and totally left field-, I was very proud this morning when my 10 year old son came into the kitchen and threw a red jersey in the garbage. I asked him what he was doing and he said it was his Michael Vick Jersey and he was watching ESPN about the dog fights. He said he wasn't wearing that shirt anymore. It was one of those cool parental moments.
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.


I totally agree, GoFish.
quote:
Originally posted by just saying:
I agree, MarianLibrarian. The purity ball is disturbing to me.

I don't have such a big opinion either about the uniforms. Our school district hasn't went that route yet, but I'd support it if they did. I'd expect to see the same problems some of you are facing though.

As and aside -and totally left field-, I was very proud this morning when my 10 year old son came into the kitchen and threw a red jersey in the garbage. I asked him what he was doing and he said it was his Michael Vick Jersey and he was watching ESPN about the dog fights. He said he wasn't wearing that shirt anymore. It was one of those cool parental moments.


You have done a great job with your child. So far so good. Give him a pat on the back for me. You don't have to tell him why - but you will know.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.


So we denature school into a setting where we train individuals to be conformists, to avoid taking risks? And maybe also give only the 'right'answers as sanctified by the Baptists or the Church of Christ or the local Democratic Party?

A further impertinent thought: Isn't promulgating dress codes or outlawing "purity rings" also placing "waaaaaaay too much emphasis on appearance"?
OK -- I am assuming we are all over the age of 18 and most of us over the age of 30 on here for the most part....so I ask...we have been living our dreams, paying for our raising and using our education and experience....

Did the school you went to have uniforms or did you get to wear what you wanted within reason (i.e. shorts 2 in above the knee, no offensive tshirts, no skin showing...etc)?

Did you get to show your individualism in school by learning what you wanted to represent by what you wore?

Did all you do was put your nose in your book and study, study, study...did you not glean any social skills from going to school?

I'm sorry, I think our generation turned out pretty good -- the Bucky Covington song (and I don't care for him, but like the words of the song) "Different World" rings very true...that songs describes a lot of my childhood and life and I think I turned out pretty good...

I agree with Vick -- we are insulating our children and in the future that is going to hurt them more than help them -- they are not going to know how to handle disappointment and problems if we don't let them feel those things today...
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
[color:GREY][b]So we denature school into a setting where we train individuals to be conformists, to avoid taking risks? And maybe also give only the 'right'answers as sanctified by the Baptists or the Church of Christ or the local Democratic Party?


Of course not. We must have boundaries or society will not work. Society will not allow you to wear nose rings, tattoos, mini dresses up past your crack, pants around your ankles and "Goth" crap. Kids need to be taught that. If if the parents won't do it, the schools must.

If you WANT to be an outcast and join your other outcast friends that's fine. The school's job is to make sure you have the brain power to survive once you grow out of that stupid stage (been there, done that, have the scars to show for it).

You are welcomed to practice non-conformity outside the school. I gots no prob' with that.
quote:
Originally posted by DixieChik:
Did the school you went to have uniforms or did you get to wear what you wanted within reason (i.e. shorts 2 in above the knee, no offensive tshirts, no skin showing...etc)?


Heck no! I would have revolted against the school if they even thought about it.

quote:
Did you get to show your individualism in school by learning what you wanted to represent by what you wore?


Yep!

quote:
Did all you do was put your nose in your book and study, study, study...did you not glean any social skills from going to school?


I was a pot smoker and a womanizer. There was nothing more important than where I was going to get my next joint/woman. Books came later.

I found that one does not get laid nearly as much of one is a non-conformist so social skills were kind of important. Wink

quote:
I'm sorry, I think our generation turned out pretty good -- the Bucky Covington song (and I don't care for him, but like the words of the song) "Different World" rings very true...that songs describes a lot of my childhood and life and I think I turned out pretty good...


Obviously. However, would you have turned out the same way if your parents allowed you to wear Goth clothes? Did you dress like a prostitute in the FIFTH GRADE?

Do you know any punk rockers who really turned out okay?

SOMEBODY has to set boundaries. If the parents won't, the school is the next best thing. Very sad but true.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Lum:
But khakis and golf shirts as an alternative? Come on! It would take a very dominated and subservient child that would feel very happy at the prospect of wearing his parents' styles in clothing! No, the Administration gave their proposed policy a poisoned pill by its dreariness and stupidity.


It works for every other school that has implemented it. But what would you suggest, tie-die? Hindu robes? Jeans and tee shirt? Or perhaps the way it was: ghetto garb and prosti-tots?

See, this is the crux of the matter. I don't see anything wrong with "boring" dress in school. This is not a fashion show or a place to express your individualism. It is school. It's not always fun and games. You stick with the rules and "conform" and you'll likely succeed in life. Don't conform and you will either fail miserably or succeed wildly with a greater chance of failing miserably.

The overriding fact is this: We humans place waaaaaaay to much emphasis on appearance and waaaaaay to little on exercising our children's brains.



Yep, you are right... I agree with ya... but don't faint!!! lol
We'll probably see more of it as time goes on. Some day that cute little rosebud on your boob will be a long stemmed rose, though.

I don't care what you wear as an adult, as long as I don't have to actually SEE your tatas or hoo hoo's. But it's a competitive world out there. If a nose ring or tattoo sways the HR person from offering you the job you really need and have worked hard to get, wouldn't you be better covering the thing up?
Sure, take out the nose ring and cover up the tattoo on job interviews. But I know plenty of people in office jobs who have visible nose rings and/or tattoos. Heck, my personnel manual says that my tattoo is to be covered, but I don't cover it. There's another librarian here with a nose ring. GoFish acts like anyone with a tattoo or nose ring is doomed to a lifetime of Dumpster diving and being an outcast from society.
I work with / have worked with people with tats, peircings, and all manner of individual expression. When they interviewed, I'm sure they covered their "individualism" up. I've seen people show up for an interview with hot pink (or purple) hair and with their eyebrow or lip peirced and / or with visible tattoos. Some places will hire them and some won't. Perhaps their "art" is a good way of weeding out the employers who they don't jive with.

Adults looking for jobs are different from kids learning math. If teachers are spending an hour a day measuring shorts and guys are distracted by the cleavage of the girl next to them and girls are giggling about the guy in front of them whose boxers are showing - then it is time for the schools to step up and implement a dress code because parents obviously do not know what is appropriate attire for their kids to wear to school.

The purity rings, class rings, engagement rings, nose rings, etc. are probably banned as part of an all or nothing policy. It is easier to say "no jewelry" and leave it at that then it is to say "only 2 rings per hand, one bracelet and one wristwatch or two bracelets and no watch, only earrings 3mm or smaller, only one necklace no more than 3" from the base of the neck," etc.

In my experience, the kids adapt to the uniforms quickly and with very few problems. The adults on the other hand...
Then there's always that 68 year old Yankee man with plaid bermuda shorts, checked shirt, black dress socks and sandals...

When my prissy little granddaughter was about 18 months old she came to my house wearing plaid crop pants, white eyelet top, white sandals, with her white purse over her wrist, curly blonde hair, tottering from side to side as she walked. We were watching her tottering across my yard when her father said, "She looks like all the little old ladies on the in Florida!"
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
And, let me get on my soap box for a second.

If we send our children, boys or girls, but this pertains mainly to girls, dressed like little hookers (or doxies, or strumpets) with their coochies hovering a milimeter below the waist band of her shorts, her little boobies showing through a thin t shirt, halter tops, bellies showing, butt cracks shing, coochie cutter pants, make up at 12 years old with "Juicy" on her butt, or a hoochie mama outfit on, WHY are we surprised when some twisted man looks at them as fair game? If you stop sexualizing your infant daughters and/or young daughters you are at least doing your part in keeping some nut job from sexualing them.

I can't imagine a father thinking this is ok, and maybe I'm wrong (and I'll back up if I am0 but I always feel that a little hoochie mama girl has a wish-I-had-been-cute or my-cute-days-are-long-gone mama paying for those clothes.



ROFLLLLLLLLLLL, Vick!!!! But REMEMBER NO PURITY RINGS!!!!! hahahahahaha
I agree that our kids shouldn't dress like hookers and vampires, yes you are correct there should be limits, but when I was in school it was like I said -- no skin/no tummy/showing, shorts no shorter than 2" above the knee, no holey jeans or pants, no offensive t-shirts (offensive, not just a confederate flag, but something that said something offensive like "*&^ you" or whatever), -- other than that, jeans, khakis, skirts/dresses, outfits or whatever were fair game for us to express ourselves with...where we started having dress codes was when parents started getting mad at the educators for NOT letting their kids wear hooker outfits and vampire/goth stuff -- instead of saying "Little Sara you look like a H O - go change your clothes" like my dad would have done -- that dad went to the principal and said, "My daugheter is a hotty and should be able to dress that way." It wasn't the kids that started the trouble -- it was the parents complaining about their kids not having the freedom of expression.
I'm kinda glad my 3 sticks are no longer in this fire, but I think when my kids were in school, I would have liked for them to have some kind of uniforms. Seems this would have made our life a lot easier. I don't have any problem with kids wearing jewlery- I always wore a watch to school.

I started reading this thread, and continued reading every single post and still don't know--
WHAT THE HELL IS A PURITY RING?
There is this kind of push for girls to pledge to not have sex with anybody till (I suppose) marriage. But the creepy part is they don't just pledge like allegiance to the flag, or their family, or God. They pledge this to their FATHER. As if he is the only one who has a dog in that fight. What about the MOTHER? Or anybody else.

Almost as if the girl had sex it would be using something that belonged to Daddy. Just creepy.
From the Wikipedia article, this made me smile:
quote:
Miss Manners' opinion is that "polite society does not recognize such a thing as a chastity ring. It is so polite that it presumes that a lady is chaste unless publicly proven otherwise."[1]


And this made me mad:
quote:
The Silver Ring Thing, a subsidiary of a Pennsylvania Evangelical Church, has received more than $1 million from the government to promote abstinence and to sell its rings in the United States and abroad."
Well, I'm thankful this wasn't 5 pages on the purity ring. You guys got to talking about school uniforms I see. Smiler

If somebody wants to wear a purity ring, what's it to anybody else? It's like the conversation we can about boob jobs and how it is nobody's business or concern but the one who's body is in question. If a girl wants to remain a virgin until marriage, hopefully avoiding a myriad of diseases, good for her. The ring is a reminder of that pledge when Mr. Hottie 2007 asks her out and she knows what he has in mind. I don't see anything wrong with it.

In the case of this school (in England?), if their rules forbid jewelry, you don't get a pass because your jewelry makes a statement about life choices. Follow the rules, chick, or move to another school that is more lenient. JMHO
If someone needs a ring to remind herself to be pure or to show everyone she's pure, that's fine with me. What bothers me about the purity rings, balls, and other merchandise is that someone is capitalizing on this abstinence movement, making money off of it (and getting government money) and convincing parents and teenagers that this purity crap is necessary. Also, the idea of parents bribing their daughters to stay pure with rings and parties bothers me. If someone decides to be pure, fine. Just like everything else (weddings, kids' birthdays), this rite of passage has been hijacked and people are making money off of it.
quote:
Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:
If someone needs a ring to remind herself to be pure or to show everyone she's pure, that's fine with me. What bothers me about the purity rings, balls, and other merchandise is that someone is capitalizing on this abstinence movement, making money off of it (and getting government money) and convincing parents and teenagers that this purity crap is necessary. Also, the idea of parents bribing their daughters to stay pure with rings and parties bothers me. If someone decides to be pure, fine. Just like everything else (weddings, kids' birthdays), this rite of passage has been hijacked and people are making money off of it.



VERY well said... I agree with you there... in fact, I didn't even know what the ring was until someone put a link up about it...

IF they have to have the ring, then they really don't understand the purity issue, huh?

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