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I in no way condone the awful and terrible thing Mr. Garner has done,It is a awful tragedy for everyone involved,but i am sick of hearing people say they saw or were aware of abuse,if there wasn't a reason to tell people THEN it most CERTAINLY does not achieve anything now other than saddened the innocent family members of Mr. Garner,the man is dead and their is no good reason to say these things,try looking at is a sad day for ALL families,Mr. Garner has parents who know and loved him as a hard working loving son,father, and husband and do not want to see their child remembered for a single day in the life of 45 years regardless of how bad a day that was in judgement,weakness, and carelessness,their is NOTHING good to come of throwing pointless rocks now so please be civil and realize it for what it is an AWFUL situation for ALL,and no matter of his actions on that day this man's daughter probably meant everything to him,some in life have tons of pressure on them and some are not as strong and equipped to deal with it as others and for us than have been blessed to have the strength we should be thankful,please remember this man's family in your prayers and hopefully those that knew him can say some nice things about him,I am certain it would make his family feel better reading them in this very difficult time for them,Thanks
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His family has been on my mind and I've remembered them in my prayers. I'm sure most feel the same. His family is not responsible for his choices and I cannot imagine how terribly painful this is for them. I pray all those touched by this tragedy find peace. God bless you, Mr. Waters.

People are angry right now & with good reason. Everyone handles this type of thing differently. I would not recommend coming on a public message board right now if you are close to the man who did this.
I try not to speak hateful about anyone who commits these type crimes because unfortunately the parents and other family members are the ones left behind to deal with all the mess they left behind. Also, please show respect because eventhough, it was thier son who committed these murders, their grand-daughter was one of the victims plus they lost thier son all at once. I think all of us parents can agree that no matter what our children do we still love them even if we don't agree. By the way, I don't agree in any way at all what he did to his family members and I wish it had not happened but I don't think it is right to drag this situation around this way because it is hurtful for those involved.
You know I have kept up with this as we all have but mostly because Chelsie was a friend of my niece. My heart is broken for ALL involved, the parents that in one night lost an entire family, the Morgan family as well as The Beaty Family. NOW!! Here I go!! Roger I agree that we should remain quiet. I also know that I have posted on this topic and I should have remained silent. However, my gripe is with the media! Why is it important what the divorce papers say? What does it matter what reasons were given.. This family is no more and to air out their dirty laundry so to speak just does not make sense. The only ones that need to know these things are the parents that lost their children and the husband that lost his wife and son. As for the media lets not lose sight of the fact that 5 people are now gone from us, in a tragic way, in a way that has ripped the hearts of those that knew them or knew of them . Do not let their families be ripped apart anymore than they already are because YOU want to make a good news story. Instead of telling how they died, lets tell about how they lived, what made them special and how we can all learn from them how to live life!
I don't personally know his Mother and Father. I can't imagine what his Mother and Father are going through. They have lost all of their children and grandchildren at one time. I do know Tammy's family however. They are in a lot of pain right now just as his mom and dad. Everyone needs to pray for all of the families involved in this tragedy. They need all of the prayers that they can get.
I have the sincerest sympathy for his parents; however, he killed three women, who were unarmed, and a child, also unarmed.

I'm sure an autopsy may show chemical imbalances, etc., but according to many, his behavior has gone on this way for years and he apparently refused to get help.

Yes, the newspapers often print things that are really of no concern to others, but when this man became a mass murderer he lost his right to privacy.
quote:
Originally posted by raine:
I try not to speak hateful about anyone who commits these type crimes because unfortunately the parents and other family members are the ones left behind to deal with all the mess they left behind. Also, please show respect because eventhough, it was thier son who committed these murders, their grand-daughter was one of the victims plus they lost thier son all at once. I think all of us parents can agree that no matter what our children do we still love them even if we don't agree. By the way, I don't agree in any way at all what he did to his family members and I wish it had not happened but I don't think it is right to drag this situation around this way because it is hurtful for those involved.



They lost their son, their daughter, and their 2 grandchildren...while I'm sure they are mourning their son, I'm sure there is some anger there at him too for what he took from them...Everyone is talking about Chelsea because she was the one we knew of through Rogers Softball, but the grandson Bobby Beaty was also killed...Kevin was their son, but he eliminated their entire family...I can't even comprehend what they are going through ...
quote:
Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
I have the sincerest sympathy for his parents; however, he killed three women, who were unarmed, and a child, also unarmed.

I'm sure an autopsy may show chemical imbalances, etc., but according to many, his behavior has gone on this way for years and he apparently refused to get help.

Yes, the newspapers often print things that are really of no concern to others, but when this man became a mass murderer he lost his right to privacy.


He may have lost his right to privacy, but Tammy did not, nor did the others. I am torn on this one... For the sake of the families left behind, prayer and support is all they need.. They do not need the media to make a spectacle of things. Kevin's display of action shows us all we need to know at this point and time...
quote:
no matter of his actions on that day this man's daughter probably meant everything to him,some in life have tons of pressure on them and some are not as strong and equipped to deal with it as others



Am I reading this right? Are there actually people walking around that would actually defend the actions of the murderer?
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptik:
quote:
no matter of his actions on that day this man's daughter probably meant everything to him,some in life have tons of pressure on them and some are not as strong and equipped to deal with it as others



Am I reading this right? Are there actually people walking around that would actually defend the actions of the murderer?


If he had simply killed himself, I could have sympathy for him. There's no sympathy for this man. I know my father would have died for my mother and me. This man is beyond my ken.
quote:
Originally posted by Roger Waters:
I in no way condone the awful and terrible thing Mr. Garner has done,It is a awful tragedy for everyone involved,but i am sick of hearing people say they saw or were aware of abuse,if there wasn't a reason to tell people THEN it most CERTAINLY does not achieve anything now other than saddened the innocent family members of Mr. Garner,the man is dead and their is no good reason to say these things,try looking at is a sad day for ALL families,Mr. Garner has parents who know and loved him as a hard working loving son,father, and husband and do not want to see their child remembered for a single day in the life of 45 years regardless of how bad a day that was in judgement,weakness, and carelessness,their is NOTHING good to come of throwing pointless rocks now so please be civil and realize it for what it is an AWFUL situation for ALL,and no matter of his actions on that day this man's daughter probably meant everything to him,some in life have tons of pressure on them and some are not as strong and equipped to deal with it as others and for us than have been blessed to have the strength we should be thankful,please remember this man's family in your prayers and hopefully those that knew him can say some nice things about him,I am certain it would make his family feel better reading them in this very difficult time for them,Thanks


I would seriously doubt that they're worried about what is said on an internet forum. There is much more to occupy their thoughts for the foreseeable future.

I missed the thread that probably prompted this thread. I hear it was awful and had to be removed.

However, this is a news story. And this is a news forum. This is just the place for people to discuss such things. Perhaps those who are easily offended, or who have ties to the family, should scan the thread titles before opening. If it's something that you feel you shouldn't read, then skip on to then next thread.

P.S. Punctuation is our friend. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Gr8toBme:
You know I have kept up with this as we all have but mostly because Chelsie was a friend of my niece. My heart is broken for ALL involved, the parents that in one night lost an entire family, the Morgan family as well as The Beaty Family. NOW!! Here I go!! Roger I agree that we should remain quiet. I also know that I have posted on this topic and I should have remained silent. However, my gripe is with the media! Why is it important what the divorce papers say? What does it matter what reasons were given.. This family is no more and to air out their dirty laundry so to speak just does not make sense. The only ones that need to know these things are the parents that lost their children and the husband that lost his wife and son. As for the media lets not lose sight of the fact that 5 people are now gone from us, in a tragic way, in a way that has ripped the hearts of those that knew them or knew of them . Do not let their families be ripped apart anymore than they already are because YOU want to make a good news story. Instead of telling how they died, lets tell about how they lived, what made them special and how we can all learn from them how to live life!


I have to agree, Gr8toBme. I also do not understand why on earth it matters what those papers did or did not claim. It doesn't matter now. Let them rest in peace!
quote:
Originally posted by raine:
quote:
Originally posted by Gr8toBme:
You know I have kept up with this as we all have but mostly because Chelsie was a friend of my niece. My heart is broken for ALL involved, the parents that in one night lost an entire family, the Morgan family as well as The Beaty Family. NOW!! Here I go!! Roger I agree that we should remain quiet. I also know that I have posted on this topic and I should have remained silent. However, my gripe is with the media! Why is it important what the divorce papers say? What does it matter what reasons were given.. This family is no more and to air out their dirty laundry so to speak just does not make sense. The only ones that need to know these things are the parents that lost their children and the husband that lost his wife and son. As for the media lets not lose sight of the fact that 5 people are now gone from us, in a tragic way, in a way that has ripped the hearts of those that knew them or knew of them . Do not let their families be ripped apart anymore than they already are because YOU want to make a good news story. Instead of telling how they died, lets tell about how they lived, what made them special and how we can all learn from them how to live life!


I have to agree, Gr8toBme. I also do not understand why on earth it matters what those papers did or did not claim. It doesn't matter now. Let them rest in peace!



staying silent is what killed these people. maybe if more of this girls friends or the mothers family had aired "dirty laundry" about the abuse that was going on they would be alive. its sad that people continue to believe that you should "just be silent" about domestic violence. for gods sake call the police. tell somebody. im glad this stuff is in the paper because maybe it will help others get the help they need before they are hurt.
While I'm sure that his parents knew him as a hardworking loving son, father and husband; I'm just as sure now they too are wondering why their son has done what he has.

People are going to talk about this; they're going to speculate, wonder, be upset, angered, outraged- it's actually normal responses. Questioning, and wondering or even being upset, is not something that people are doing to be disrespectful of anyone. They are reacting in response to this, and it's not really abnormal to be angry hearing about a man not only killing his wife and sister, but also two children.

I can't understand by reading this, if you are trying to excuse this or not; but if you are, then there is no excuse for this kind of thing. You don't go and kill the majority of your immediate family out of weakness or lapse in judgement. If he had killed himself; I might could concede to that point, but no, in my opinion, that's just not feasiable to me. Carelessness, doesn't even cover it. Either he was mentally unstable, or he was just a flat out mean, abusive person. Which? We may never know or find out.

What we do know is this man went in and killed his daughter, his nephew, his sister, and his soon-to-be ex-wife. No matter what, they did not deserve to be executed. Especially, the girl and the boy.

This deeply upset me and makes me sick to my stomach. Those poor women and children. Frowner

My thoughts do go out to The parents of both women, the husband that lost his wife and son, and all the friends.

My heart goes out to all of them. While many of us are upset, angered, and confused about this, what they're feeling is 10 fold, if not more. I will continue to pray for them. I pray for their strength to endure this, and hope that in time they can find comfort or peace, however fleeting it may seem right now.

My deepest condolences to everyone related to this either by family or friendship. May God bless you all.

I really hope that no offense was taken by anything I have said here.

~Amanda
i feel sorry for everyone involved, except the shooter.

if the airing of any of the facts of the case strike a chord with one person - a teacher, a preacher, a friend, a lawyer, or even the abused person - and makes that person see a sign next time that these wheels have been set in motion, it is worth it. some of the details are hard to see, but if it stops one future killing, if someone who can make a difference sees a similarity and speaks up next time, it is a good thing.

of course, we are all sorry for his family! however, that doesn't change the fact that i think he was a low down, cowardly waste of skin. the pain his family is in was caused by him, and i doubt anything anyone says good or bad can ever make it worse or ever make it go away.

kill your miserable self, if you are that desperate, but leave kids and other innocents OUT OF IT. better yet, jerk yourself up by your bootstraps and deal with it. people have gone through much worse things than divorces and not lashed out like that.
quote:
Originally posted by Roger Waters:
I in no way condone the awful and terrible thing Mr. Garner has done,It is a awful tragedy for everyone involved,but i am sick of hearing people say they saw or were aware of abuse,if there wasn't a reason to tell people THEN it most CERTAINLY does not achieve anything now other than saddened the innocent family members of Mr. Garner,the man is dead and their is no good reason to say these things,try looking at is a sad day for ALL families,Mr. Garner has parents who know and loved him as a hard working loving son,father, and husband and do not want to see their child remembered for a single day in the life of 45 years regardless of how bad a day that was in judgement,weakness, and carelessness,their is NOTHING good to come of throwing pointless rocks now so please be civil and realize it for what it is an AWFUL situation for ALL,and no matter of his actions on that day this man's daughter probably meant everything to him,some in life have tons of pressure on them and some are not as strong and equipped to deal with it as others and for us than have been blessed to have the strength we should be thankful,please remember this man's family in your prayers and hopefully those that knew him can say some nice things about him,I am certain it would make his family feel better reading them in this very difficult time for them,Thanks


I would have to agree with you on those that knew him can pass some nice words on to the family, but I don't agree with you on the public knowing the full story. Not trying to be dis-respectful. From what I have seen said and printed in the papers I get that there were warning signs leading up to this tragic event. You said that it doesn't achieve anything, but it does, if the public knows the story behind this and know what signs that was present, then they may see it in some of their family and/or friends and get them some help before this tragic event happens again.

My prayers and sympathy goes out to the family, friends and the communities. May God Comfort those that needs it.
quote:
Originally posted by feedingthegooddog:

staying silent is what killed these people. maybe if more of this girls friends or the mothers family had aired "dirty laundry" about the abuse that was going on they would be alive. its sad that people continue to believe that you should "just be silent" about domestic violence. for gods sake call the police. tell somebody. im glad this stuff is in the paper because maybe it will help others get the help they need before they are hurt.


I agree and disagree. I agree that any man who beats on a woman is not a man, but a coward who doesn't have the guts to stand up to someone who can match him lick for lick and take what he dishes out.

I disagree that silence is what killed this family. This family was banding together and speaking out (through the courts.) If I remember right, this was his sister and nephew that was killed with his wife and daughter. These were people that were brave enough to stand up for themselves and each other.

If nothing else, the lesson that should come out of this is that, if you are in an abusive situation, waiting it out is not the answer. It is not going to get better over time. IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE THE LONGER YOU WAIT TO LEAVE! And, when you leave, take the precautions necessary. Get the restraining order and (if you are fearful enough) arm yourself. You know what your abuser is capable of when you are together, imagine that ten times worse when you are apart and PREPARE FOR IT.

It will not be easy, but there are people out there (both known to you and strangers) that will be more than willing to help you get through it and come out the other side a much happier person.

Kirk
QUOTE]
staying silent is what killed these people. maybe if more of this girls friends or the mothers family had aired "dirty laundry" about the abuse that was going on they would be alive. its sad that people continue to believe that you should "just be silent" about domestic violence. for gods sake call the police. tell somebody. im glad this stuff is in the paper because maybe it will help others get the help they need before they are hurt.[/QUOTE]


I have seen abuse first hand... I know the tricks that the mind plays and I know if you are being abused walking away is not that simple. You feel guilted, you feel insecure and it takes a lot of damage control to reverse the years of damage done. Perhaps these friends were afraid with of the things that they were hearing and did not know what to do. I am sure that there are a lot of people living with a lot of guilt today because of "what if's?"
No you should not remain silent, but when you are terrified of the things that have been done to you and if you try to do something about it the thoughts are there of what would happen if? I am sad to say that no restraining order in the world would have kept Kevin from doing what he did. All we can do for the families now is pray, pray and pray some more.
Not speaking about this case in particular since I don't know the people. But generally, when there is an abusive man who is terrorizing his family, people are afraid to tell the police. The police are not able to prevent crime...their job is to enforce the laws, which means that most of the time they show up after a law has been violated. Protective orders are not worth the paper they are written on. A lot of people are killed by the person they have a restraining order against.

Right or wrong, I think this is one reason people don't take action. People are afraid to let the abuser know they have ratted him out.
I TO PRAY FOR THE FAMILIES OF BOTH OF THESE PEOPLE.They are suffering for the deeds of Kevin and that is unfortunate. I think we are all looking for a reason to understand why a man would kill his child and that young man and others. We hang onto the information and look for the reasons. There is a Large population of young people at Rogers School that are loooking for the same answer. My 13 YO Grandson goes to Rogers and the young people are all confused. They are questioning if any other fathers would do this and why. The violence in families must stop for the sake of our young people, they are frightened. It is too late for Chelsie and the young man, but many others are living every day with the violence in their own families. Please think of your children and don't wait if you need help. Children learn what they live with and these children living with violence in their families are learning that they handle life's problems with violence. My Grandson and I had a long conversation and he asked me "didn't that daddy love his child"? It broke my heart. May the Lord hold these children in His arms and comfort the families.
Sharon -- the young man's name was Bobby...

I talked with a friend that was a responder to the scene and even he is rattled -- a seasoned, veteran police officer that had seen it all said this was beyond anything he'd ever seen and he was having a hard time with it. He and I agreed -- given the situation, I could see Kevin killing Tammy and I could see Kevin killing himself, but for Kevin to be able to kill his own daughter, Chelsie, was beyond anything...and then to go and kill his sister, Karen and his nephew, Bobby was just horrific...the scene told the story of his anger and hatred, but I pray that no one ever truly understands what was in his head -- that had to be a dark hell that I wouldn't wish on anyone...
Thanks for the information. I think I knew his name, but sometimes the minds of old ladies slip a bit. lol. As far as the dark hell of Kevin's mind goes. Children are not born with dark minds and there are reasons that they get to the point that Kevin did. Mental illness, situations, out of control anger, drugs, alcohol, lots of reasons for this twisted mind but this does not happen overnight. A reasonably, sane person does not wake up in the morning and decide to kill his family.
The problem is that people feel they must hide these situations leading up to this point. Women and Men don't tell about the preceeding abuse. Children are told not to tell anyone when their dad hits mom. People exposed to others domestic violence decide that they must mind their own business. We all need to get involved.It is difficult, but it is everyone's responsibility not to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to this problem before it gets to this terrible point of no return.


quote:
Sharon -- the young man's name was Bobby...

I talked with a friend that was a responder to the scene and even he is rattled -- a seasoned, veteran police officer that had seen it all said this was beyond anything he'd ever seen and he was having a hard time with it. He and I agreed -- given the situation, I could see Kevin killing Tammy and I could see Kevin killing himself, but for Kevin to be able to kill his own daughter, Chelsie, was beyond anything...and then to go and kill his sister, Karen and his nephew, Bobby was just horrific...the scene told the story of his anger and hatred, but I pray that no one ever truly understands what was in his head -- that had to be a dark hell that I wouldn't wish on anyone...
Posts: 4032 | Location: The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave... | Registered: 16 November 2006

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