pondering how this works :-)

 ALSO,  according to your statement it would mean her sin of atheism would be forgiven. 

 =====================

I don't consider atheism a sin.

I know you don't, I was saying that to BG.    I want him to answer with regards to his belief system.

I can see how it would read that way.  But It's was directed to BG.

billie will need to read jack chick before he answers

Billy is going to always have an answer because Satan has given him a desire to turn others away from God. No matter what you say, Satan will always give Billy an answer.

Hi David,

 

In your misleading post which began this discussion, you tell us:

 

December 17, 2013 11:36 PM:  (from a thread "Questions for Bestworking"):

 

Bestworking commented:  Raised in the Baptist church (nothing like bill's idea of a Baptist church). Went to church from the time I could remember. Went to church, loved my church and all the people there. I was allowed to visit other churches if my parents knew the people that asked me, took friends to church with me, vacation bible school, church camp, the whole nine yards. Believed in a god as much or more than anyone I ever knew.  Baptized.

 

And, in that post, David, it seems you are becoming more like Vic -- posting partial, or supposed, statements -- with no URL link or other info to support your cherry picked copy/pastes.  So, let me bring us all up to date on where you found that and what was really, and fully, stated in my earlier post in my September 15, 2011 discussion titled "Once Saved, Always Saved" -- Really?"  It can be found at:  https://www.tnvalleytalks.com/t...ways-saved----really -- and this is a more complete excerpt from that post:

In this video, Dr. Bing gives one of the best explanations of Free Grace and Salvation Through Faith Alone, plus giving Biblical support for Eternal Assurance in Jesus Christ, that I have heard.   Immediately, I realized that I want to share this video, this eternally important message -- with all my Friends.  The video is about 48 minutes long; so, get a cup of coffee, kick back, and grow in your faith and assurance of eternal life in Christ.

 

Intro to Free Grace:  Dr. Charlie Bing
From Free Grace Alliance
http://vimeo.com/2919716

And, visiting Dr. Bing's ministry web site, GraceLife Ministries http://www.gracelife.org/aboutus.asp I find that his Statement of Faith aligns perfectly with my own Statement of Beliefs and, what I have been writing for the past twenty years -- what I have presented during the past twelve years in my Friends Ministry enewsletters -- what I shared on The Conservative Voice for three years -- and the message I have shared for over five years on the TimesDaily Religion forum.

GraceLife Statement of Faith:

We believe that there is one God eternally existing in three persons:  The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

We believe that the Bible is God's authoritative written revelation to man.  We believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of the Scriptures and that they are without error in the original manuscripts.  Scripture should be interpreted according to its historical, grammatical, and normal sense.

We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, that he also took on humanity at His virgin birth, lived a sinless life, performed miracles, died on the cross to provide for the redemption of all people, bodily rose from the grave, ascended into heaven, and presently is making intercession for us.

We believe in the personality and deity of the Holy Spirit, that He performs the miracle of new birth in an unbeliever and indwells believers enabling them to live a godly life.

We believe that man was created in the image of God, but because of sin was alienated from God.

We believe in the Gospel of Grace, that by simply and only believing in Jesus Christ alone for the eternal salvation made possible by His death and resurrection that our alienation can be removed and eternal life received.

We believe that once saved, the believer can never lose that salvation, and that it is therefore the privilege of everyone who believes to have assurance of salvation, which is not based on works but on the promises of God's Word.

We believe that we are not only saved from the penalty of sin by grace through faith, but we believe that we are also empowered by the Holy Spirit for daily living and victory over sin by grace through faith.

We believe in the Premillennial Return of Jesus Christ to earth in power and glory when He will establish the kingdom.

We believe in the Imminent Pretribulational Rapture of the church.  We believe that following the rapture of the church, all believers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ where believers will appear to give an account for how their lives were lived as believers.  We believe that faithfulness will be rewarded by Christ Himself and that special privileges in the millennial kingdom and eternity will be given to those believers who have lived their lives faithfully while loss of reward will be accorded to those who have not.

We believe those who reject Christ's offer of salvation will suffer eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire with the devil and his angels.

Do yourself a favor and view this complete video.   As I said, get a cup of coffee, you may want to also have your Bible handy, sit back, relax, and truly listen to the message presented by Dr. Charlie Bing.  His message is powerful.

 

Once again, I stand with what Dr. Charlie Bing wrote in this Statement of Faith and what he teaches in his video (URL link given above).   David, if you, or anyone else, can disprove ANY of this Statement of Faith, Biblically -- I am interested in reading YOUR (not the Vatican's) explanation.

 

Now, back to Jennifer Best's statement which you so highly support:

 

Bestworking commented:  Raised in the Baptist church (nothing like bill's idea of a Baptist church). Went to church from the time I could remember. Went to church, loved my church and all the people there. I was allowed to visit other churches if my parents knew the people that asked me, took friends to church with me, vacation bible school, church camp, the whole nine yards. Believed in a god as much or more than anyone I ever knew. Baptized.

 

If you will notice that the Statement of Faith shown above supports what we find in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

Jennifer Best declares herself to have been a Christian believer -- but denies the existence of God.  If you will notice, Jennifer Best tells us, "(I) Believed in a god. . . "   That is how the Jehovah's Witnesses describe Jesus Christ in their Bible, the New World Translation. 

 

In the Christian Bible, John 1:1 tells us, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."   In the JWs New World Translation, their John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

 

Notice the similarity between the JWs Bible and what Jennifer Best tells us -- a god?

 

In other words, she is declaring herself a Christian -- but not based upon God or what He tells us, but what she declares -- that she believed in "a god."   Isn't that somewhat like what we read that Lucifer/Satan did in Isaiah 14?

 

Isaiah 14:12-14, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!  How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!   For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the MostHigh.'

The only difference I see is that Lucifer/Satan knows God does exist -- and Jennifer Best declares that God does not exist.

 

David, thank you for bringing this to our attention.  For it surely supports what I have been writing for the past seven years on the Religion Forum.

 

And, let me finish by saying that I would be so happy if Jennifer ever does become a Christian believer -- for then she WOULD have eternal life in Christ.  Right now, nothing she says or you say will convince me that she currently has that.  But, I will ask that you, and all the Christians reading the TimesDaily Religion Forum, please do pray for her salvation -- and for the salvation of other non-believers on the forum.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bestworking,

Were you a JW ever?  Thought you were baptist.  That god you believed in at one time.  Would that have been Jesus?

BG,
Do you believe in the Gracelife statements as posted  in your original thread??
I wasn't trying to be misleading.
All those "we believe" sentences are consistent with your own personal belief system??? Right ??

------------------------

JW? Jehovah witness? No, never had any contact with them. Like I said, raised in the baptist church.  I'm not sure I even knew any jw except for one girl I went to school with that might have been. In my family they are all baptist except for a couple of coc members. 

Bestworking,
What about Jesus????   Did you ever believe in Jesus?

Yes we believed in jesus.

Hi David,

 

Yes, that Statement of Beliefs, or Statement of Faith, is consistent with my own personal Statement of Faith which I have posted here before.   This is why I will always tell folks that I am a Baptist flavored Christian, rather than just saying I am a Baptist.  First comes my own personal Statement of Faith -- and, then I look at the Baptist Statement of Faith.  Because they align so well, I call myself a Baptist flavored Christian.   But, first and foremost -- I am a Christian believer, period.

 

That said, I cannot find anything within Dr. Bing's Statement of Faith or Beliefs which is not Biblically correct.   Can you?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

 

But, what did you believe about Jesus Christ?  Did you believe He is truly deity, truly God -- or did you believe, as do the Jehovah's Witnesses, that He was "a god"?   Did you believe that He preexisted eternally as one Person in the Triune Godhead -- or that He was just another god, a created being?

 

You see, Jennifer, just believing in Jesus, that He existed, does not make one a Christian believer.  Lucifer/Satan not only believed in Jesus, he KNEW that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- because he, Satan, was in heaven as one of the archangels before he rebelled against God.  So, he stood face to face before Jesus Christ and God the Father. 

 

So, what does it mean in Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you are saved through faith"?  What does that "faith" embrace?  First, it include believing that Jesus Christ is deity, is God -- and the He has existed eternally as one Person in the Godhead.  It also must include putting your full trust in Him as your Lord and Savior, to fully trust and believe that His blood spilled on the cross "paid in full" the sin debt of all people, for all time.  It means believing that everyone who, by the grace of God, through faith in His atoning blood -- will believe and receive His "paid in full" gift of eternal life, will be saved.  And, it means that you will trust and follow Him, knowing that when He declared on the cross, "It is finished!"  (John 19:30) -- that He had finished all that is necessary for you and me to have eternal life in Him.

 

That is the meaning of faith.  And, when one truly has that faith in Him -- that person is saved and can never be snatched out of His hands (John 10:28-29). 

 

Declaring oneself to be a Christian is no more than Lucifer declaring that he would raise his throne above that of God.  Walking in faith with Him as your personal Lord and Savior -- is a totally different situation -- and one who truly walks with Him, will never turn away, be lost, or be snatched out of His hands.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

I am not sure which part you are questioning.  If it is about Jennifer's belief in Jesus Christ -- then please read the answer I just posted.

 

If it is about the We Believe statement, which part do you not believe -- that we are saved from the penalty of sin -- or that we are empowered by the Holy Spirit?

 

Maybe you can make your question a wee bit more clear.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

BG,
You are using Bestworking's current vernacular and making assessments about the validity of her belief  then. 


Going by your stated OSAS belief system she would be still be saved ...

================

He knows that. He just tries to get around it by saying I never believed. In other words, one of the biggest liars ever to have a "gut put in him" is calling someone else a liar.

Hi David,

 

Maybe we can clear up the confusion -- if YOU will tell me how a person is saved, becomes a born again believer.   And, how a person, once born again, can lose that salvation.   I am really interested in your thoughts on this.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

You are one of the phoniest people around billie. You are not interested

in any thoughts but your own.

 

Not true!  I am very interested in how you would answer the question I put to David:

 

Maybe we can clear up the confusion -- if YOU will tell me how a person is saved, becomes a born again believer.   And, how a person, once born again, can lose that salvation.   I am really interested in your thoughts on this.

 

How about it -- can you handle that question?  Or will you just resort to your normal ranting, raving, and name calling?   Show me what at good Roman Catholic you are -- and for once answer a question in an intelligent, civil manner.   I realize that is asking a lot from you.  But, if you will just take a deep breath, lay aside all your insecurities -- I am sure you can come up with something which will be semi-intelligent.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

i'm amazed by the way bill talks to the people in this forum. what a great 'christian' example. i don't think this many jabs are passed in the political section, and that's saying a lot!

I still stand by what I said before, there's nothing religious about this forum

and billie is as endearing as a sauerkraut and beer fart.

 

Catholic buddies save this teaching, learn it, on occasion reread it & study it.

The reason why you can lose your salvation is because even after accepting Christ a person is still capable of sinning and remaining unrepentant. And repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Scripture is very clear on this point. Listen to Paul’s warning to the Church at Rome: “Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4). Jesus Himself warns the Church at Ephesus. He says: “Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent (Revelation 2:5).

As we would expect, the early Church agreed. The epistle of Barnabas which was written around the year 130 reads in part: "So no assumption that we are among the called must ever tempt us to relax our efforts, or fall asleep in our sins, otherwise the prince of evil will obtain control over us, and oust us from the kingdom of the Lord" (4).

When we give our lives to Jesus our free will is not taken away.  We do not become robots compelled to feed the poor or avoid sin.  We must submit to Christ on a daily basis.  As the Scripture says, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.  Submit yourselves therefore to God" (James 4:6-7).

Most people who believe the above teaching once saved always saved will quote the following Bible verse as proof: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38, 39.

Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. But does it say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? In fact, is this verse talking about salvation or eternal life at all? No, this verse is clearly talking about God's unconditional love towards man, not unconditional salvation. Salvation is conditional! You might also notice that the word "sin" was not included in the list of things which are unable to separate us from the love of God.

If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

Hi David,

 

It is interesting that when I asked you the questions, "How is a person saved?" and "What does a person have to do to be saved?" -- you come back with more copy/paste from the Vatican. 

 

David, if I was interested in what the Vatican has written, I would access a Vatican web site. 

 

However, since it is YOU with whom I am having a dialogue -- I am interested in how YOU answer those questions.

 

Many years ago, I worked for the large computer company Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC).  The original founder, Ken, was still president and his brother, Ted, was vice president of Module Sales.  The common joke throughout the company was that every morning Ken would insert the Program Tape for the day into Ted's head -- so that Ted would know what to say and do that day.

 

That is the feeling I am getting with my Roman Catholic Friends on the Religion Forum -- that without ingesting the daily Vatican program -- no one would be able to answer any question or make any comment.

 

Just once, I would love to get a response from you, Vic, Smokey, et al, which is not a function of the Vatican PreProgram Tape inserted in your head every morning.

 

I know!  I know!  Now I will be accused of not being gracious, or of being indelicate, or some other reason for my Roman Catholic Friends not being able to speak for themselves.

 

When I give you an answer, I may often quote from a Bible scholar, theologian, or pastor -- but, in the end I ALWAYS give you MY interpretation of what God is telling us in His Bible.   I share what God says -- you share what the Pope says.  Personally, i will take God's Word over the Pope's word any day.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

LOL!!!!!  This man is fussing at me,  giving me his "copy/paste lecture. 
THEN HE COPY/PASTE HIS OWN LECTURE AND PUTS IT IN TWO DIFFERENT THREADS. 
I find that humorous.

=================

You must have struck a nerve since he's attacking the messenger instead of he message. 

Keep up the good work at explaining Christianity to those who have questions. 

Hi David,

 

When you and Vic copy/paste from another writer, you seldom, if ever, give credit to that mystery Roman Catholic writer -- and, you seldom, if ever -- add even one word from your own thinking, from your own mind.

 

The extent of Vic's addition to most of his posts -- IN HIS PERIOD!   Many times you do not even do that, you just do a 100% copy/paste of Roman Catholic rhetoric.

 

Yes, I do copy/paste from other writers when what they have written is pertinent to what I am sharing.  When I do, I ALWAYS give credit to the original writer -- and I give a URL link so that our readers can check it out to be sure what I posted was accurate.

 

And, those copy/pastes are support for what I have already written -- not in lieu of me writing anything.  The copy/paste is never 100% of my post -- as it is with you and Vic.  I always add my thoughts and understanding -- and when a commentary writer has a writing which will add to or enhance what I have shared -- that writing if often included.

 

Compare that to your and Vic's 100% copy/paste of erroneous Vatican writings -- and you can see a vast difference.   And, one last thought -- most often Vic, and lately very often you -- are very militant in your responses.  So, instead of offering an intelligent, Biblical response -- Vic begins to spew anger and vulgarity.  Lately, you have been getting rather militant also.

 

And, there, my Friend, in a nutshell -- is the difference between your writing and my writing.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Lah de dah.... Bill's off his meds... He hasan't mentioned the cabal in 24 hours...