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Priests as "Father"

Roman Catholic Christians have a long custom--tradition--to address their priests as "father." Many Christians feel that this practice is in disagreement with the word of God.

Mt 23:8-10
As for you, do not be called 'Rabbi.' You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. Do not be called 'Master'; you have but one master, the Messiah.
If this passage was meant to be taken literally, then we all offend the Scripture. We all have used "father" to designate our birth father; and "teacher," our instructors at school. On the other hand, the meaning of the scripture is that no person should be given the respect and honor due ultimately to God the Father.

Catholic Christians call the priests "father" with the sense understood by Paul.

1 Cor 4:14-16
I am writing you this not to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Therefore, I urge you, be imitators of me.
1 Thess 2:11-12
As you know, we treated each one of you as a father treats his children, exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)

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Originally Posted by House of David:
1 Cor 4:14-16
I am writing you this not to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Therefore, I urge you, be imitators of me.

______

And Bill Gray wants to convince people that he's a Christian? Think of the way he talks to & treats others on this forum. Considering his behavior, do you see him as a imitator of Christ or Satan?

 

Sorry, David, to highjack your topic but that scripture you quoted just reenforced my thought as to who Bill truly does imitate.

Hi David,

 

Jesus Christ is very clear in His admonishment:

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Are you, in your copy/paste Vatican writing now telling us that Jesus Christ was wrong?   He tells us to only call God our Father.  The Pope tells you to call all priests your fathers.

 

Who should we believe:  God -- or the Pope?

 

Joshua 24:15, If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

How about you?  Who do you serve -- God or the Pope?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Was Paul wrong when he said, "I am your father in Christ".
I trust St. Paul.  What a good example he was at how to follow Christ. 
Remember catholic buddies out there reading this.
1) Jesus referred to Abraham as father Abraham. 
2) Paul said "I am your father in Christ.  
So, "calling no man father" means do not give the respect owed to God to someone else.  If it literally meant call no man father, then Jesus and St. Paul would have never used the word in the above points I made.  So, if your heart is aware that calling a priest father is within the meaning & understanding that St. Paul used it then fine....
Just have to understand what St. Paul is saying.  :-)
BTW, have you ever bought a Father's Day card???
Matthew 3:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
^ in that verse did Jesus contradict himself by using the word father.
NO

Matthew 19:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 honor your father and mother, and ‘love your neighbor as yourself."

^ Jesus uses the word father again.  The issue must not be with the word in and if itself, must have to do with ones heart and what meaning and intention they have when they used the word father.

Now, BG let's look at St. Stephen says:
Acts 7:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 To this he replied: “Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Harran.

^ was St. Stephen disobedient to Jesus' teaching? NO

Here in Romans Abraham is call "the father of all of us"
Romans 4:16-17
New International Version (NIV)
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[a] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

Okay, now, BG, let's look at one of my favorite role models, St. Paul

1 Corinthians 4:14-15
New International Version (NIV)
Paul’s Appeal and Warning

14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Was St. Paul wrong? NO
Was St. Paul being disobedient to Jesus' teaching? NO

Okay, now let's look at St. John.

1 John 2:13-14
New International Version (NIV)
13 I am writing to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men,
    because you have overcome the evil one.
14 I write to you, dear children,
    because you know the Father.
I write to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
    because you are strong,
    and the word of God lives in you,
    and you have overcome the evil one.

So, BG, I have given you bible verses and my own personal commentary.  This is why it's not a sin, or wrong to use the word father. 
Lastly, calling a priest father is not mandatory, you can say pastor, mr, or by their first name.
quote:   Originally Posted by House of David:
So, BG, I have given you bible verses and my own personal commentary.  This is why it's not a sin, or wrong to use the word father.   Lastly, calling a priest father is not mandatory, you can say pastor, mr, or by their first name.

David, my Friend,

 

You have still only quoted Scripture verses/passages -- but, you have not explained any of them.  You just post Scripture and then tell me, "See I commented!"   No, you have not. 

 

Are you afraid to attempt to interpret Scripture on you own?  Why?   God gave us His Written Word and He did not hide it in mystery.   He inspired His word so that all people who try -- can understand it.  You do NOT need a priest or a Pope to tell you the meaning.  God made it simple enough that even you and I can understand and interpret His meaning and His messages to us.

 

But, on your insistence that priest and the Pope should be called "Father" -- even though Jesus Christ tells us to not do that; let me offer the thinking of a man who is much more knowledgeable that either you or me regarding the Bible, Dr. Ron Rhodes:

 

Question: "Did Jesus mean that we should never refer to our earthly father as 'father' (Matthew 23:9)? Is it wrong for Catholics to refer to their priests as 'father'?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/father-Matthew-23-9.html


Answer:  It would be confusing for God to give the fifth commandment in Exodus 20:12: "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you” and then later in the Bible to restrict us from calling our earthly father “father.”

 

Matthew 23:9 states, “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and He is in heaven.” The context of Matthew 23:9 tells us that referring to your biological father as “father” is not what Jesus is speaking about.

In Matthew 23:1–12, Jesus is denouncing the Jewish scribes and Pharisees for rejecting Him as their Messiah, in particular for their hypocrisy in elevating themselves above others with titles such as “teacher” and “master.”  The Jewish teachers affected that title because they supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and they sought, therefore, to be called “father,as if they were the source of truth rather than God.   Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth is God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to Him.

This denunciation is equally relevant for today.  In no way should any person look up to, follow, or elevate a human leader in any religious or church organization above Jesus Christ.  Jesus is the Head of the Church, His body, and our one and only Master and Teacher.  He alone is the author of our salvation, source of comfort in difficulties, and strength to live the Christian life, and the only One to whom our prayers should be directed.

Roman Catholics call their priests “father” and the pope is called “the holy father.”  This is clearly unbiblical.  The priest as “father” is problematic.  Catholic priests are doing precisely what Matthew 23:9 condemns by allowing the term “father” in a spiritual sense be applied to them.

 

In no sense is a priest or pastor a “spiritual father” to a Christian.  Only God can cause a person to receive “spiritual birth” -- therefore, only God is worthy of the title of “Father” in a spiritual sense.

In the case of the “holy father,” there is no doubt this is unbiblicalNo man can take on the title of “holy” anything, because only God is holy.  This title gives the pope a status that is never intended for any man on earth.

 

Even the apostle Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15) and cried out, “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” (Romans 7:14).  Clearly, Paul made no claim to holiness.  Although as Christians we have exchanged our sin for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), holiness will not be attained until we are in heaven and have left the last vestiges of our sin natures behindUntil then, the pope has no more holiness than the average Christian and is not entitled to be called “holy father.”

But there is no reason not to call our earthly parents “father” and “mother” because in doing so we are not giving them an elevated title or position that belongs to God.   Our earthly parents are worthy of honor, not just on one special day of the year (Father’s Day, Mother’s Day), but we are to honor our parents daily in the spirit of Exodus 20:12, Matthew 15:4, and Ephesians 6:1-3.

Recommended Resources: "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics" by Dr. Ron Rhodes, founder and president of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries.

 

Another good book I recommend is:  "Talking With Catholic Friends And Family" -- published by Harvest House Publishers, written by James G. McCarthy, an ex-Roman Catholic and founder and director of Good News For Catholics, inc. --

 

So, my Friend, I stand by my contention that Jesus Christ told us:  Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

And, since He is God -- He is not wrong!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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I explained my self well when I listed scripture verse and I DID interpret them.  Read my comments again, if you still can not understand what I'm saying then the fault lies with you. 
I have NEVER met a catholic that thought a priest was a god. 
I have NEVER met a catholic who kneeled and worshiped a priest.  I have NEVER met a catholic that felt they must use "God only titles" for a priest. I've been a catholic for 40 years, and I was NEVER TAUGHT what you are accusing us of. 
So, your assumption about us is wrong.
This comment is for my catholic buddies.  Just in case you'd like to learn more, the below article is VERY INSIGHTFUL.  

CATHOLIC PLEASE READ AND LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR FAITH!  DO NOT FALL PREY TO THE ANTI-CATHOLICS !
The below information is from catholicanswers.com
Very very interesting.


Spiritual Fatherhood

Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: "She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, "Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children" (2 Cor. 12:14); and, "My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!" (Gal. 4:19).

John said, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1); "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" (1 John 2:13–14).

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests "father." Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Catholics know that as members of a parish, they have been committed to a priest’s spiritual care, thus they have great filial affection for priests and call them "father." Priests, in turn, follow the apostles’ biblical example by referring to members of their flock as "my son" or "my child" (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4).

All of these passages were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they express the infallibly recorded truth that Christ’s ministers do have a role as spiritual fathers. Jesus is not against acknowledging that. It is he who gave these men their role as spiritual fathers, and it is his Holy Spirit who recorded this role for us in the pages of Scripture. To acknowledge spiritual fatherhood is to acknowledge the truth, and no amount of anti-Catholic grumbling will change that fact.
Originally Posted by House of David:
I explained my self well when I listed scripture verse and I DID interpret them.  Read my comments again, if you still can not understand what I'm saying then the fault lies with you. 
I have NEVER met a catholic that thought a priest was a god. 
I have NEVER met a catholic who kneeled and worshiped a priest.  I have NEVER met a catholic that felt they must use "God only titles" for a priest. I've been a catholic for 40 years, and I was NEVER TAUGHT what you are accusing us of. 
So, your assumption about us is wrong.

Billie knows that David, He does like to say those things because of his

hate for you and the Catholic Church. Do not attempt to defend your

beliefs from the oblivious and blasphemous lies that he sins with against

the stated words of the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit.

 

In his corrupted mind set is anything but godly.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Mel gibson was addressed as  "father" in the movie "Signs", and had a wife that was killed in an accident, and two children. He was episcopalian.

 

Which is another good example of how far some people will go to push a

lie by twisting the words of the Bible. To him it doesn't matter if Jesus did

say the words.

 

Originally Posted by House of David:
Invictus,
Is what I posted earlier about priest being called father ( which is not even mandatory) accurate? Was I clear with biblical interpretation?
I think smokey is right when he says BG attacks the messenger because he can't attack the message.

Yes,,,,,Yes...and smokey knows  billy's MO as well as anyone.

That's why billy isn't worth the time you give him because nothing

is ever accomplished with him. He doesn't discuss. He throws up a smoke

screen and then criticizes, lies and wants to move on as fast as he can.

Better off not to ever engage a dead end ending in the first place.

 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by House of David:
I explained my self well when I listed scripture verse and I DID interpret them.  Read my comments again, if you still can not understand what I'm saying then the fault lies with you. 
I have NEVER met a catholic that thought a priest was a god. 
I have NEVER met a catholic who kneeled and worshiped a priest.  I have NEVER met a catholic that felt they must use "God only titles" for a priest.  I've been a catholic for 40 years, and I was NEVER TAUGHT what you are accusing us of.   So, your assumption about us is wrong.

Hi David,

 

Let's take these suppositions backwards.  First, worship of priest:   When you give a man a spiritual title reserved for God -- you are elevating that man to the level of God, which was what Satan attempted to do for himself.

 

Dr. Ron Rhodes wrote in the article above:

 

In no sense is a priest or pastor a “spiritual father” to a Christian.  Only God can cause a person to receive “spiritual birth” -- therefore, only God is worthy of the title of “Father” in a spiritual sense.

 

When you call a man "holy father" -- you are giving him another title reserved ONLY for God -- for only God is holy.

 

Once again, quoting Dr. Ron Rhodes from the article above:

 

In the case of the “holy father,” there is no doubt this is unbiblicalNo man can take on the title of “holy” anything, because only God is holy.  This title gives the pope a status that is never intended for any man on earth.

 

Finally, you tell me, "I explained my self well when I listed scripture verse and I DID interpret them.  Read my comments again, if you still can not understand what I'm saying then the fault lies with you."

 

Listed below are all the comments you gave me in that post.   This is nothing but a list of jabs -- not ONE single Scriptural interpretation or explanation among them.  

 

David, my Friend, when I asked you to interpret and explain YOUR understanding of Scripture -- that meant taking the verse or passage and exegetically explaining what the original writer intended it to mean, i.e., what was the message God intended us to get from that writing.  I do not see that anywhere in your comments and jabs:

 

^ in that verse did Jesus contradict himself by using the word father.

^ Jesus uses the word father again.  The issue must not be with the word in and if itself, must have to do with ones heart and what meaning and intention they have when they used the word father.

Now, BG let's look at St. Stephen says:

^ was St. Stephen disobedient to Jesus' teaching? NO

Okay, now, BG, let's look at one of my favorite role models, St. Paul

Was St. Paul wrong? NO Was St. Paul being disobedient to Jesus' teaching? NO

Okay, now let's look at St. John.

So, BG, I have given you bible verses and my own personal commentary.  This is why it's not a sin, or wrong to use the word father.

Lastly, calling a priest father is not mandatory, you can say pastor, mr, or by their first name.

 

David, have you EVER known a person, a lay person, who did not call the priest "father" or the Pope "holy father"?  In all my 20 years in the Roman Catholic church -- I only saw, or heard of, one instance where this happened.

 

That incident happened when I was in Korea in 1956-57 and my new wife had sought the counsel of her local priest about whether we should be married since I was not officially a Roman Catholic.  But, I had agreed to honor her obligation to raise the children in the Roman Catholic church.

 

The incident of a priest not being called "father" occurred one day when she encountered him while he was playing baseball -- and was wearing sweats.  When she called him Father Joe, he pretended to look around -- and then told her, "Call me Joe.  I am here incognito.  No one knows who I am!"   Of course, he was joking.  But, that is the one and only time I have seen a priest do that or be called anything other than "father."

 

And, by the way, his answer to her when she asked if she should stay married to me, was, "Yes, you should.  You are married now and he is a good father to the children.  Leave it in God's hands."

 

So, David, my Friend -- I am still waiting to have a serious exegetical (exposition, explanation; especially : an explanation or interpretation of a Scripture text) dialogue with you on any part of the Bible -- any of the 66 books.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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PLEASE READ ALL PROTESTANTS.  VERY EDUCATIONAL FROM :
Are ‘Mother’ and ‘Father’ Appropriate Titles for Protestant Clergy?

by David L. Holmes

Dr. Holmes teaches religion at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. This article appeared in The Christian Century, December 4, 1985, pp. 1120-1122. Copyright by The Christian Century Foundation; used by permission. Current articles and subscription information can be found at www.christiancentury.org. This material was prepared for Religion Online by Ted and Winnie Brock.


Excerpt/snippet :

The title "Father" was used in four ways in addressing clergy (see my article, "Fathers and Brethren," Church History [September 1968], pp. 298-318). In early America "Father" was a title of respect for elderly men. Although, for example, "Mister" (the designation of a gentleman and a college graduate) was the normal title for Puritan clergy in colonial New England, Congregationalists. Baptists, Methodists and German Reformed commonly addressed older ministers as "Father" well into the 19th century.

Furthermore, Protestants also employed the title for younger ministers who influenced Christian commitment and served as spiritual fathers. This usage is evident in the correspondence between early American ministers and their theological students. The journals of Methodist circuit riders as well as the records of Protestant missions to Indians and seamen also indicate this usage. Herman Melville, for example, based his character Father Mapple -- the whaleman-chaplain in Moby **** -- on Father Edward Thompson Taylor, the Methodist pastor of Boston’s Seamen’s Bethel.

Protestants of earlier centuries also addressed founders of denominations and religious communities as "Father." American Methodists, for example, referred to John Wesley not only as "Mr. Wesley" but also as "Father Wesley." Following the custom in both genders, the Shakers called their matriarch ‘‘Mother’’ and their male leaders "Father."

Closely related was the custom of calling missionary pioneers "Father." In the 19th century, Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregationalist, German Reformed, Methodist and Universalist missionaries were given the title throughout the New South and West. And American Lutherans used "Father" for their pioneer pastors, their first missionary to India, and their patriarch, Father Henry Melchior Muhlenberg.

Few in Protestant churches of earlier generations would have seen a theological problem in addressing spiritual fathers, founders or missionary pioneers as ‘Father." Just as the author of I John addressed as "fathers" the elderly who were advanced in the knowledge of Christ (I John 2:13-14), so Protestant churches applied the title to experienced ministers who had been long in the service of the church. "Fathers and Brethren" sat in ecclesiastical assemblies, and in the New Testament "Father" denoted the difference between generations.

Moreover, if calling clergy "Father" had violated biblical norms, the Christian Church and Disciples of Christ surely would have opposed it, for these groups were formed in an attempt to restore not only the doctrine and practice of primitive Christianity, but also its very nomenclature. Warren Stone’s motto was "Bible names for Bible things." And Thomas and Alexander Campbell stood on the phrase, "Where the Bible speaks, we speak: where it is silent, we are silent." Ridiculing "Reverend" and "Doctor" as "unscriptural," Alexander Campbell even employed the words of Jesus in Matthew 23:8-10 as a motto for his magazine, the Christian Baptist.

David, my Friend,

 

Regardless of what any man writes, pastor, scholar, theologian, etc. -- the final word comes from God's Word.  And, in God's Word we read the words of Jesus Christ:

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Next, you will say, "But, Bill, you quote from pastors, scholars, theologians, etc., all the time.  Why is their writings correct when you quote them -- but, not correct when I quote them?"

 

Good question.  Glad you asked.  The ONLY true authority is God's Word, the Bible.  As I have written many times, when trying to understand what a Scripture passage or verse means -- I ofen will look to commentaries as a second step (first step should always be to pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding).

 

Often, I will find commentaries which I feel are right on -- and I will use that writing.  Other times, I find commentaries which I know are not Biblically correct; so, I lay those aside.

 

And, even when seeking the teaching of a pastor -- I do not always agree with them.  I have a long time, very dear, very respected pastor Friend -- and for the last ten years he and I cannot agree on the interpretation of Revelation 3:20.  

 

In that Scipture verse, he believes that Christ was speaking only to the church of Laodicea -- and I believe that when Jesus tells us, "If ANYONE opens the door, I will come in"  -- that ANYONE means, well ANYONE, not just the folks in  Laodicea.

 

So, where does this leave us?  When studying God's Word, first, we go to the Holy Spirit; then we might want to consult the writings of those who have gone before us -- to see what insights we can find.  But, in the end, we turn to the sole authority, the full revelation of God to man -- the Bible.  The Bible interprets the Bible.   Call that circular reasoning if you like; but, the truth is the truth -- and the Bible is the final and sole Truth on God's Word.

 

So, when Jesus tells us:

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

I believe that is what He means.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Billy boy, while preaching about how he finds the truth and mentioning scholarly writings, spit forth the following truth!

 

"Often, I will find commentaries which I feel are right on -- and I will use that writing.  Other times, I find commentaries which I know are not Biblically correct; so, I lay those aside."

 

----------------------------------

At last a truth from the keyboard of the boy! What he states here is that those writings which agree with him, he embraces tenderly; those which disagree with his beliefs, he tosses aside as so much garbage...

 

This should tell you a lot about why attempting to have a rational discussion with Bill. Though he likes to flaunt the word "friend" it is so insincere as to be sinful... Those very few here who agree with him (mostly alter-egos) he embraces; those who dare disagree with him he treats like garbage, name calling, belittling, berating, chastising them and their faith...

 

The world according to Billie boy...

 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by House of David:
Fellow catholic buddies, I just wanted to remind you that my above comment- in which I post an excerpt from David L. Holmes' article on Protestant usage of the word father ~~~~  He is a professor at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA.    Very reliable guy, very interesting article.

David, my Friend,

 

Keep in mind the he is only a man; his words are not those of God.  Some of his words might shine a light of understanding as we seek to apply them to Scripture; and some of his words may be very misleading when applied to Scripture.  

 

Keep in mind what Paul teaches us in Acts 17:11 -- test the teacher and test the teaching DAILY AGAINST SCRIPTURE.

 

And, David, you tell us,"Very reliable guy."

 

How do you know?  Have you read any of his other writings; have you listened to one or more of his sermons?   How do you know he is a "Very reliable guy"?

 

Or do you give him this honor BECAUSE what he has written here agrees with your Roman Catholic teachings?  For all we know, he may be the most liberal of liberal professors.  There are many of them in liberal colleges and seminaries all across America.

 

So, we are at the crossroad.  Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

And, this college professor tells us the opposite.  Who will your believe:  Jesus Christ -- or a college professor?

 

Joshua 24:15, If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: (college professors, liberal leaders, society, the Vatican); but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

 

David, may I offer a suggestion?  Instead of searching far and wide for someone who will agree with your "by rote" religion -- why not just go to the source of all Godly information, the Bible?

 

This is what I have been trying to get you to do when I ask you to tell us what YOU believe Scripture is telling us -- study the Bible and give us YOUR interpretation of what God is telling us in those verses and passages.  Forget what man tells you, especially if it disagrees with God's Word -- and stay in the true and sole source of Truth, the Bible.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 

That's why billy isn't worth the time you give him because nothing

is ever accomplished with him. He doesn't discuss. He throws up a smoke

screen and then criticizes, lies and wants to move on as fast as he can. 

_________

Vic! You should be ashamed of yourself! Bill is a Christian, doing the will of God.

-----------------------------

You got me there semi, I didn't realize the will of God was to be a blatant liar.

You know Jesus could've just as easily have said, Don't call anyone your

brother, you have only one brother and that's me. Your brother in Heaven.

But then Jesus knows people have enough sense to see the difference

in your Father and your God the Father. Your Brother, or your Brother Jesus.

 

Vic, my Friend,

 

It is amazing how little most Roman Catholics, and you in particular, know about Scripture.   You know what the Vatican has programmed into your head -- and all you can do is spew "by rote" the answers and ideas they have preprogrammed into your brain.  That is so sad.

 

Have you never sat and really studied a Bible?  I mean, study it and try to understand what God is saying in all 66 books -- not just mindlessly repeat what the Vatican tells you it means. 

 

My Friend, you really should try understanding the Bible from your own spirit and mind.  You, like many Roman Catholics, priest and lay people, in the past -- will be amazed at what you will learn.  That is why so many of them have walked away from the Roman Catholic church. 

 

Is that your fear, that you may find that church truly is wrong -- and you will need to leave? 

 

You really should give it a try.  That could make an eternal difference in your life -- and in the life to come.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - Read Me

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  • Bible - Read Me
Last edited by Bill Gray
Invictus, smoky,
Put this bible quote in your catholic toolbox.

Why do you call someone good, when only God is good? (Mark 10:18)

The above bible verse makes me wonder how often we, or anyone, through out life have referred to someone as good? 
I'm just bouncing this off y'all because I like passing along info to other catholics.  It can be used as an example or compared to other bible passages.  You never know when someone will try and corner you.  
There are literal meanings and hyperbole used in the bible.   Anyway, just sharing.  :-)
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Vic, my Friend,

It is amazing how little most Roman Catholics, and you in particular, know about Scripture.    

Have you never sat and really studied a Bible?   

_________

Bill, I believe the people on this forum is truly good, decent people, just as I'm sure you are. If you believe Jesus is capable of doing anything you ask him to, please, pray for these people where you feel they fall short. I'm sure you also wouldn't mind their prayers for you.

I can just imagine the smile on Jesus face when he see's his children praying for one another. I can also imagine the sadness on His face & pain in His heart when He see's his children bickering & arguing with each other.

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