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What happens when idiots attempt to condemn the title of Father.

Desperate thumpers invade common sense, that's what.

 

Jesus calls Abraham “father” in Matthew 3:9. Saint Stephen in Acts 7:2 calls the Jewish leaders “fathers”, and Saint Paul makes similar statements in Acts 21:40, 22:1 and Romans 9:10. Abraham is called “the father of us all” in Romans 4:16-17.

 

Saint Paul claims a special kind of fatherhood several times in his letters – he writes about this in I Corinthians 4:14-15, I Timothy 1:2 and Philemon 10. Saint Paul also makes reference to the idea of spiritual fatherhood elsewhere – in Titus 1:4.

 

John refers to the elders he is writing to in I John as “fathers” (I John 2:13-14).

This is, however, not confined to the New Testament - Joseph tells his brothers “So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt” in Genesis 45:8. Job has a similar statement - “I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16).

 

God says that He will make Eliakim, the steward of the house of David, a kind of father when he says “In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah" in Isaiah 22:20-21.

 

Elisha cries, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind in II Kings 2:12. Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel in II Kings 6:21.

 

It can be seen that the word “father” is extensively used to refer to not only those who are natural or adoptive fathers, but also those who have a position of superiority over those who act as their children. This can be a spiritual or political leadership, or simply a term of respect.

 

If we were to forbid the use of the word “father” in any context except refering to God, then it would lose its meaning as there would be no earthly example of fatherhood to enable us to understand divine Fatherhood. It is only by seeing that earthly examples of fatherhood (either real or metaphorical) are pale reflections of divine Fatherhood that we can understand God's role as our heavenly Father.

............................Stupid claim of Idiot debunked..........................

 

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Hi all,

 

When I opened the TimesDaily Online and saw this title -- immediately, before ever opening it, I KNEW it is a Roman Catholic created discussion.   Little did I know it is a Roman Catholic/Atheist discussion.  

 

But, I should not be surprised.  Strange bedfellows?  Not really.  Both deny the Written Word of God as the authority in their lives.   And, both will have to answer to Jesus Christ one day for denying God's Word.

 

All I can say is, bless your little Roman Catholic/Atheist hearts,

 

Bill

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quote:  Originally Posted by House of David:
Vic, I have Roman Catholic/Boston Terrier discussions every day.

David, my Friend,

 

And, those discussion most often should remind you of folks sitting in mass -- blindly follow their Vatican master's "by rote" teachings and rituals.

 

But, praise God, I follow the only Master -- who has given me the gift of "free will" and the guidance to study and understand His Written Word -- without being under control of a Vatican leash.

 

I pray that one day you will also find this level of peace with God, through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1) -- and only Jesus Christ.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - Your Roadmap For Life

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by House of David:
Vic, I have Roman Catholic/Boston terrier discussions every day.

Well since you brought it up House, you should be relieved you aren't

the half breed by-product of the jack chick/chuck smith gang of abortion

lovers and friends of banjo river music. Where the church of hate is king

among the ignorant dogs that can't break from their own vomit.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, praise God, I follow the only Master -- who has given me the gift of "free will" and the guidance to study and understand His Written Word -- without being under control of a Vatican leash.

I pray that one day you will also find this level of peace with God, through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1) -- and only Jesus Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

__________

Bill, be careful of your "free will" teaching. You could lead people down the wrong path.

When you say you pray that someone will find a level of peace with God, are you not judging them? How do you know they don't have it already? Just because you don't agree with them about scriptures & the Bible, should you truly assume they are lost & you are not? Is it even your call to make?

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

.

What happens when idiots attempt to condemn the title of Father.

Desperate thumpers invade common sense, that's what.

 

Jesus calls Abraham “father” in Matthew 3:9. Saint Stephen in Acts 7:2 calls the Jewish leaders “fathers”, and Saint Paul makes similar statements in Acts 21:40, 22:1 and Romans 9:10. Abraham is called “the father of us all” in Romans 4:16-17.

 

Saint Paul claims a special kind of fatherhood several times in his letters – he writes about this in I Corinthians 4:14-15, I Timothy 1:2 and Philemon 10. Saint Paul also makes reference to the idea of spiritual fatherhood elsewhere – in Titus 1:4.

 

John refers to the elders he is writing to in I John as “fathers” (I John 2:13-14).

This is, however, not confined to the New Testament - Joseph tells his brothers “So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt” in Genesis 45:8. Job has a similar statement - “I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16).

 

God says that He will make Eliakim, the steward of the house of David, a kind of father when he says “In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah" in Isaiah 22:20-21.

 

Elisha cries, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind in II Kings 2:12. Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel in II Kings 6:21.

 

It can be seen that the word “father” is extensively used to refer to not only those who are natural or adoptive fathers, but also those who have a position of superiority over those who act as their children. This can be a spiritual or political leadership, or simply a term of respect.

 

If we were to forbid the use of the word “father” in any context except refering to God, then it would lose its meaning as there would be no earthly example of fatherhood to enable us to understand divine Fatherhood. It is only by seeing that earthly examples of fatherhood (either real or metaphorical) are pale reflections of divine Fatherhood that we can understand God's role as our heavenly Father.

............................Stupid claim of Idiot debunked..........................

 

I'm glad to see the end of the silly azz, you better not call anybody father

crap, freaking side show.

 

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Bill, be careful of your "free will" teaching.  You could lead people down the wrong path.

 

When you say you pray that someone will find a level of peace with God, are you not judging them?  How do you know they don't have it already?

 

Just because you don't agree with them about scriptures & the Bible, should you truly assume they are lost & you are not?  Is it even your call to make?

Hi Chick,

 

You tell me, "Bill, be careful of your "free will" teaching.  You could lead people down the wrong path."

 

Do you not believe that God has given all people the gift of "free will"?  The only Christians I know who deny "free will" are the five point Calvinists -- for it negates their believe in Predestination.

 

So, are you telling us that you are a five point Calvinist?

 

Then, you tell me, "When you say you pray that someone will find a level of peace with God, are you not judging them?  How do you know they don't have it already?"

 

My Friend, keep in mind that not all folks who read our posts is a Christian believer.

 

Romans 5:1, "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

 

So, if a person is a believer and does have peace with God, through accepting and following Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- God bless them, for they are my Christian brother or sister.   If a person has not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- that person needs to seek "peace with God" through Jesus Christ.  In this verse, we are telling all folks how to have peace with God.

 

Chick, do YOU have peace with God?  Have you believed and received His Son as your personal Lord and Savior, promising to follow Him the rest of your life?  If you have done this, then we should expect to see the "fruit" of your salvation.  Can you really say that the bitter posts you write on this forum show the "fruit" of salvation?

 

Finally, you tell me. "Just because you don't agree with them about scriptures & the Bible, should you truly assume they are lost & you are not?  Is it even your call to make?"

 

First of all, I KNOW that I have eternal life in Christ. That is not arrogance; that is just trusting the promises of Jesus Christ.   Praise God for that sense of eternal security.

 

It is not whether I agree or disagree with their teachings, Biblical or otherwise.  It is that the Bible does not agree with their teachings.  It matters little what Bill Gray says.  But, it matters a great deal what God's Word, the Bible, tells us.  And, in the Bible we find God's full revelation for salvation and Christian living.

 

Do I refute unBiblical teachings, traditions, and doctrines?  Yes.  Because I believe that is what Jesus Christ has taught us to do in His Word.   To not refute false teachings would be to deny my Lord and Savior who has paid the ultimate price for my salvation.  So, I have no choice but to shine the light of God's Word on all false and unBiblical teachings.  If that is wrong, then when I meet Him face to face, He will let me know. 

 

Until then, through daily prayer. unless He makes it clear to me that I doing the writing ministry He gave me wrong -- I will just keep doing what I have been doing for the past 26 years -- and look forward to eternally being in His presence one day.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

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quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
I'm glad to see the end of the silly azz, you better not call anybody father crap, freaking side show.

Hi all,

 

Don't you just love the level of intelligence shown by our ROMAN CATHOLIC Friend?   The Bible uses the word "father" -- so it okay to call priest "father" and the Pope "holy father"!

 

And, don't you love the way our ROMAN CATHOLIC Friend expresses his disagreement with the Christian world?   I'll bet that if any ROMAN CATHOLIC priests are reading this forum -- they must be so happy with the way Vic represents the ROMAN CATHOLIC church.

 

Forget what Jesus Christ said.  After all, who is He?  Duh!

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Of course, we know that in the Roman Catholic church -- if the Bible, even Jesus' own words, disagree with Roman Catholic teaching and doctrine -- Roman Catholic Catechism trumps God's Word, the Bible.   Boy, are a lot of Roman Catholics going to be surprised one day.

 

So, according to our Roman Catholic Bible authority, Vic, because he finds the word "father" used in other context in the Bible -- then it is okay to call the priest "father."

 

Using that very erroneous logic, then we should look at James:

 

James 2:3, "And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:"

 

Since the word "gay" is used here -- then, God approves of the homosexual lifestyle, right?  WRONG!

 

And, by the way, Vic, except for your super intelligent comments at the bottom of your post -- once again, all you have added to that post is your PERIOD!   I sure am happy you still have your PERIOD!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - 66 BOOKS

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Luke 16:24:

And he (the rich man) called out, "Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame."

Abraham is clearly a "religious leader." And Jesus is not alone in referring to him "father." St. James refers to Abraham as "father" in James 2:21, while St. Paul refers to Abraham as "father" seven times in Romans 4:1-18. If you believe in the inspiration of Sacred Scripture, St. James and St. Paul cannot contradict Jesus in Matthew 23:9.
Catholic buddies,
Funny thing~~~ I say my Boston terrier is a Dominican because she's a black and white dog. 
We called our Yorkie a Franciscan because she was tan/brown.
If you had a white dog or cat you could say they are an Oblate.
Solid black dog/cat would be a passionist.   :-)
If you have a pet take a look and see what order they'd belong to. 
I love pet stories.    :-)

Hi David,

 

So, dog stories -- instead of addressing what Jesus Christ said:

 

So, how do you explain what Jesus said in:

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Was Jesus Christ wrong?  In other words, was God wrong?

 

David, what are YOUR thoughts on this?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by House of David:
Catholic buddies,
Funny thing~~~ I say my Boston terrier is a Dominican because she's a black and white dog. 
We called our Yorkie a Franciscan because she was tan/brown.
If you had a white dog or cat you could say they are an Oblate.
Solid black dog/cat would be a passionist.   :-)
If you have a pet take a look and see what order they'd belong to. 
I love pet stories.    :-)

_____

A Doberman pinscher would seem to me to relate strongly to that attack dog order--the Jesuits.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
I'm glad to see the end of the silly azz, you better not call anybody father crap, freaking side show.

Hi all,

 

Don't you just love the level of intelligence shown by our ROMAN CATHOLIC Friend?   The Bible uses the word "father" -- so it okay to call priest "father" and the Pope "holy father"!

 

And, don't you love the way our ROMAN CATHOLIC Friend expresses his disagreement with the Christian world?   I'll bet that if any ROMAN CATHOLIC priests are reading this forum -- they must be so happy with the way Vic represents the ROMAN CATHOLIC church.

 

Forget what Jesus Christ said.  After all, who is He?  Duh!

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Of course, we know that in the Roman Catholic church -- if the Bible, even Jesus' own words, disagree with Roman Catholic teaching and doctrine -- Roman Catholic Catechism trumps God's Word, the Bible.   Boy, are a lot of Roman Catholics going to be surprised one day.

 

So, according to our Roman Catholic Bible authority, Vic, because he finds the word "father" used in other context in the Bible -- then it is okay to call the priest "father."

 

Using that very erroneous logic, then we should look at James:

 

James 2:3, "And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:"

 

Since the word "gay" is used here -- then, God approves of the homosexual lifestyle, right?  WRONG!

 

And, by the way, Vic, except for your super intelligent comments at the bottom of your post -- once again, all you have added to that post is your PERIOD!   I sure am happy you still have your PERIOD!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - 66 BOOKS

=================

Just wondering Gray, are you a student of Dr Joseph Goebbels?

Bill, I sometimes wonder why you choose only parts of the Bible to live by. Have you ever ask God to show you the things you do that’s displeasing to Him? Could you hear Him & accept it if He did?

 

The Bible says to be careful about judging others. Because when you do, you are condemning yourself. Are you not doing the same thing for which you pass judgment on others? (Romans 2:1). The Bible says that "God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:14). Can deed not cover the words you speak of others? You don’t seem to believe the part of the Bible that tells you to "stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way" (Romans 14:13). Instead, we should judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:31). Does Mercy not triumph over judgment? "Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" (James 2:12-13).

Can you tell me why you don’t live by those scriptures?

 

I don’t care what kind of church a Christian worships at. What’s important is how they treat others & the good they do. If you feel someone is in the wrong church & not living the right way of the Scriptures, pray for that person. Ask God to show them the right way & believe that He will. Do you truly believe He is happy & pleased with the way you talk to/treat others?

 

How does it hurt you if Vic calls someone father? If that's the way he believes & his belief makes him happy, leave it alone. Please? You can tell someone you think they're wrong about something, but when you have done that, lay it done & leave it alone. One time is enough.

 

I think the majority of the Christians on this forum is good, decent human beings. And so are those that are not Christians. You can stand in judgment of us all, but thank God, you are not the judge that matters in the end.

My words are not meant to be rude/ugly, just something that I hope you will give some thought to.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, can you really say that the bitter posts you write on this forum show the "fruit" of salvation?

First of all, I KNOW that I have eternal life in Christ. That is not arrogance; that is just trusting the promises of Jesus Christ.   Praise God for that sense of eternal security. 

Finally, you tell me. "Just because you don't agree with them about scriptures & the Bible, should you truly assume they are lost & you are not?  Is it even your call to make?"

 

It is not whether I agree or disagree with their teachings, Biblical or otherwise.  It is that the Bible does not agree with their teachings.  It matters little what Bill Gray says.  But, it matters a great deal what God's Word, the Bible, tells us.  And, in the Bible we find God's full revelation for salvation and Christian living.

 

Do I refute unBiblical teachings, traditions, and doctrines?  Yes. Because I believe that is what Jesus Christ has taught us to do in His Word.   To not refute false teachings would be to deny my Lord and Savior who has paid the ultimate price for my salvation.  So, I have no choice but to shine the light of God's Word on all false and unBiblical teachings.  If that is wrong, then when I meet Him face to face, He will let me know.

 

Until then, through daily prayer. unless He makes it clear to me that I doing the writing ministry He gave me wrong -- I will just keep doing what I have been doing for the past 26 years -- and look forward to eternally being in His presence one day.

Bill

_________

 

OMG! I can’t believe that you would be stupid enough as to ask a question like that! The bitter, mocking, mean, hateful post that you write & you have the nerve to talk about me writing bitter post??

 

We all know you like to pretend you have eternal security, Bill, but one day when standing before your maker, you will find out the truth. The truth that the majority of us already know.

 

Yes, it does matter what the Bible says. And one day, you will be in deep doo doo for turning those scriptures, Biblical teachings, traditions, & doctrines into what you want them to mean.

 

Bill, most of us know God did not give you a writing ministry. Your own ego & pride gave it to you. And, of course, Satan,

 

Originally Posted by House of David:
Contendah,
LOL!!!!!  :-)
They both have a reputation !!!!!!

_____

As you doubtlessly know, I have many issues with Catholicism, Invictus.  But I confess to an admiration of the courage and fearlessness of Jesuits, especially those who came as missionaries to the New World and often suffered and died horribly for their convictions.

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by House of David:
Contendah,
LOL!!!!!  :-)
They both have a reputation !!!!!!

_____

As you doubtlessly know, I have many issues with Catholicism, Invictus.  But I confess to an admiration of the courage and fearlessness of Jesuits, especially those who came as missionaries to the New World and often suffered and died horribly for their convictions.

Something we can both agree.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, my dear Friend,

 

I am so happy you are not bitter and angry, as we all can see from your post above.   Praise God.  

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 John 5-13 - Bible Inspired By God

===============================

 

I don't see it at bitterness but more frustration with your hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

So, dog stories -- instead of addressing what Jesus Christ said:

 

So, how do you explain what Jesus said in:

 

Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

 

Was Jesus Christ wrong?  In other words, was God wrong?

 

.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your biblical comprehension billie is as it should be, nonsense. Responses

like the above from you tells me you haven't the slightest idea of what

Matthew is talking about. So with the words God spoke to Moses saying,

 

"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land

which the LORD thy God giveth thee."   KJV   

 

Jesus is completely out of the loop and wrong according to you.

And this isn't the only time Jesus just don't get it in so far as your thinking.

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, my dear Friend,

I am so happy you are not bitter and angry, as we all can see from your post above. Praise God.  

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

===============================

Originally Posted by smokey1:

I don't see it at bitterness but more frustration with your hypocrisy.

________

Thank you, smokey.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, my dear Friend,

I am so happy you are not bitter and angry, as we all can see from your post above.   Praise God.  

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

_______

Show me where I said I wasn't bitter and/or angry. What I said was that you have the nerve to talk about me writing bitter post, when you do it with every post you write. Bitter? No, but I do get angry with the way you mislead people, talk about others the way you do, & confess to being a Christian while doing it.

And who is the "we" that you speak of? You always put "we" in the majority of your post but when ask, you never bother to say who "we" is. I would love to know who they are.

During my long lifetime, I've met a lot of people - Some who were just plain stupid; some who had an undeserved high opinion of themselves; some who thought they were God's gift to the world; even some who thought they were, in fact, God...

 

I've circled the globe a few times and lived for extended periods in eight countries, on four continents, and never in all those travels have I ever met anyone who combined all of those attributes, as does our resident troll...

 

I'm very near the point where I might take a break from the forums because seeing his name pop up in every discussion, always with negative commentary, never positive, brings on a sensation of nausea...

 

I find it sad that a group of otherwise great people can't have a decent discussion without his bursting in and criticizing some... He never adds to the discussion and apparently feels the best way to keep his name out there is to spew forth negativity....

 

It's really quite sad...

 

 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Bill's narcissistic personality disorder becomes more and more obvious the longer you hang around here.

________

His condition has gotten much worse. If his wife were one that could stand up to him & show some authority, she could get him some meds & some help mentally. It's sad that he's allowed to walk around in public in his condition. I hope he doesn't physically hurt someone. People with NPD can be violent.  

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

I find it sad that a group of otherwise great people can't have a decent discussion without his bursting in and criticizing some... He never adds to the discussion and apparently feels the best way to keep his name out there is to spew forth negativity.... 

It's really quite sad...

 

_________

It is sad that we can't have a decent discussion. The only good thing to come from it is that it shows those people that he says he wants to reach what a "hypocritical Christian" is & how to spot one. Bill has a relative on this forum, that reads but never post, that I've had PM's with. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've been told.

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