Religion reverses everything.

NSNS

I can't speak for all believers but I neither think that he is arrogant for feeling insignificant on a cosmic scale nor do I believe that I am the reason for existence. When you consider that there are an estimated 150-300 billion galaxies in the universe (no one knows for sure) that means there are more universes than people who have ever lived. We could each easily have our own galaxy with plenty left over. That makes me feel pretty small.

 

My faith teaches me that each individual has worth and that God cares for each and every one of us. I find comfort in that. Call it weak minded if you will but I don't find such a concept to be arrogant. 

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

________

Yep, He loves us so much that if we don't walk the line, He sends us to a fire pit that He didn't make for us. No, we don't send ourselves there. Why would we want to do such a thing? It's His rule, His decision. 

And if He didn't make it for us, why send us there? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Because He created everything for us! And if we blatantly reject Him and refuse Him , we won't spend eternity with Him. He sent His Son to show is how to live, and if we deny Him, we are denying our very selves. It is very difficult to comprehend why a loving God would condemn us- perhaps think of it this way- He doesn't condemn us- He gave everything to us, and if we don't want to share in that, we condemn ourselves. Just my opinion.

Hi Deep,

 

You state, “I don't understand why I'm considered arrogant for thinking that I am temporary, insignificant.  I'm a blink in the cosmic eye.  And that is that it has existed long before me and won't remember me very long."

 

No, my Friend, we Christians do not view you as arrogant.  In this mortal body, you and I ARE temporary.  Yet, neither of us is insignificant to God.  He loves us both.   We are told in 2 Peter 2:9 that God desires for both of us to be saved.  But, that choice is up to us to make:  Eternal life in the presence of God.  Or eternal life not in the presence of God.  And, that last choice is truly hell.

 

You say, "I'm a blink in the cosmic eye."    And, that is true.  Our life in this mortal body is but a blink of the cosmic eye compared to eternity.  What really matters is not what you accomplish in this life -- but, what you have prepared for the next life, for it will not be just a blink, but an eternity.

 

Then, you declare, "And that is that it has existed long before me and won't remember me very long."

 

Once again, you are correct -- God has existed eternally and will continue to exist eternally.  You and I were created.  But, we both were created by our Creator to live eternally.  The only question is which of the two eternal destinations will we choose.   I have chosen eternal life with God.  For now, you have chosen eternal life without God.  That is a mistake, but one you can correct.  However, you have only until your last mortal breath to make the right choice.

 

Next, you quote another spiritually blind person, "I'm arrogant for that.  But the Christian who believes that he is the reason the Universe exists is humble in his ideology.” -- Aron Ra."

 

No true Christian believes he/she is the reason the universe exists.  God is the reason the universe exists.  He created the universe and He created us as a part of His universe.  Yet, He did create us to be special; He created us to love Him.  Is this egotistical of God to create mankind to love and worship Him?   If we were thinking in terms of human logic and human feelings, that might be true.  But, God is far above any human logic or human feelings.

 

Isaiah 55:8-9, "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."

 

And, that is what sets us apart from God.  He is God!  He is eternally preexisting!  He is the Creator!  And, we are His creation -- created to love and worship Him. 

 

However, He will never force us to love and worship Him.  He could; but, then that would be robotic love and not real love.  God wants us to truly love Him -- and when we make that decision and commitment -- He gives us eternal life; never to lose it -- for NO ONE can snatch the believer out of His hands (John 10:28-29).

 

Deep, with all my heart, I pray that one day before your last breath -- you will choose to love Him and be His child.  I would love to walk with you in heaven one day.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Deep fat again you have tricked me. I watched the entire RA video.  You owe me.

The only thing I saw was a runaway looking for attention. An angry atheist.  I understand you are an atheist but this is about as goofy as a klan meeting. I have for the last few days been involved in justifying how a clear understanding of ‘arc length’ is necessary in understanding Einstein’s Field Equations and I spent a hour of my valuable time listening to this crap.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Do you wake up hating the whole world or just any one around you who is happy? Oh yeah, .

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

----------------------

That was another thing that really "bothered" me. As with all of the bible, it didn't make sense. It would be a horrible thing to do with one's son/child, but people think it was the greatest thing in the world to do.

Do you wake up hating the whole world or just any one around you who is happy? Oh yeah, .

------------------------

Who is she "hating"? 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Any one that posts something positive about religion.  You know, like all atheists do. (Mandatory smiley face after all sarcastic remarks)

===============

And you think just because someone posts something "positive" about religion they are happy, and if someone has a differing opinion they're "hating"?  I don't know about your theory, I have seen some pretty miserable and bitter old pills, that claim to be christians, posting their "positive" thoughts about religion. On the flip side, the atheists here seem pretty happy with their lives. I know I am.

Hi all,

 

Actually, when reflecting upon it -- Deep's title is very true.    He states in his title "Religion Reverses Everything."    Change that to "Christianity" instead of "Religion" -- and he would be right on target.

 

Yes, Christianity does indeed change everything.  It can take a lost soul who is on the direct path to eternal hell -- and redirect him/her to the path of eternal life and joy in the presence of God.

 

So, yes -- if Deep will only get serious about Christianity, if he will lay aside his earthly, mortal, "it's all about me" way of life -- and allow Jesus Christ to be Lord, Savior, and Master in his life -- THAT WOULD INDEED CHANGE EVERYTHING for my dear Friend, Deep.

 

With all sincerity, I would truly love to know that, one day, I will walk in heavenly fellowship with Deep and all of our non-believing Forum Friends.   But, of course, that is entirely up to them -- for the choice between eternal heaven and eternal hell -- is fully upon their shoulders; it is entirely their choice.

 

And, not making a choice -- IS making a choice.  But, the default choice is not a good one.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

St. Petros: what is your name lady?

answer: uhh Bestworking

 

St Petros: what did you do on Earth?

 

Bestworking: hated on Bill Gray all day long.

 

St. Petros: well well ; what else did you do?

 

Bestworking: nuttin.

 

St. Petros: oh really? Why was that?

 

Bestworking: cause Deep Fat and Crusty did it too.

 

St. Petros: well well I see....was it fun?

 

Bestworking: uhh huh.

 

St Petros: do you want me to tell God on ya?

 

Bestworking: uhh uhh.

 

St. Petros: where did you get that outfit you are wearing?

 

Bestworking: mama.

 

St. Petros: yo mamma!!??

 

Bestworking: uhh huh.

 

St. Petros: is it fire proof?

 

Bestworking: whut?

 

St. Petros: that silly outfit you've got on, that's what!!

[St. Petros is gitten a little puzzled]

 

Bestworking: I don't know if it is or not it ain't ever been hot.

 

St. Petros: i'll tell you what, you see that firey pit over there? you jump yo little a z z in it.

 

Bestworking: from here?

 

St Petros: You were really just dumb; weren't you.

 

Bestworking: well Deep and Crusty.........they.......thought I was cute....

 

St Petros: Deep, Crust, get yourselves over here.

 

Deep and Crust yasuh boss.

 

St. Petros: God wants y'all to take her up to the big house and shine up to ole Bill Gray real quick like and do what he says from now on. Ya hear?

 

[Crust in his best squeaky voice] yessuh we will, wont we Deep.

 

Deep: uhh huh.

 

St. Petros: I'll keep checking with Bill now ya hear?

 

Crust in his squeaky voice.  uhh huh

Says Rrammn - in one of the many voices in his head.

Darling Veep,

 

The most cursory examination of cosmology shows that we are somewhat intelligent, yet biologic organisms on a tiny planet, orbiting a regular star, in the Mayberry of an ordinary spiral galaxy which is one among billions.

 

We live for the merest fraction of a second in cosmic time.  And there is no objective evidence whatever that we can survive death, or that the Universe was made for us.  If it was made for us, why are we totally restricted to this planet and. occasionally, its moon?

 

I don't blame you for excessive hubris and lack of perspective, you have been taught this nonsense as truth all your life.  Your sweet nature tends to believe people who are kind to you.  This is an insidious system of lies, however.

 

We are a natural part of the Universe.  We are starstuff, and when we look up at night, we see where we came from.  No mythological god is as powerful, awesome, transcendent, or even 1% as real as the knowledge we have gained at the cost of lives, blood,years, sweat, and money.  And almost all in the teeth of religious resistance.

 

You know I like you, but what you said above is kindergarten superstition, similar to avoiding the cracks on a sidewalk.

 

Morality and sweetness are functions of the better humans among us.  Religion does not change that.  Good people will usually do good, bad people will usually do bad, but to make good people do bad things requires religion.

 

Continue to believe as you will, I make no money if you change your mind.  Just know that more and more of us see the Universe for what it is, what it has been, and what it will become through hard intellectual work, with a deliberate avoidance of superstition.

 

Our way is demonstrably more true.  We crave truth.  Not a "Truth" that is simply asserted, but a demonstrable set of facts with correlating theories to bind them together. Religion craves vindication of preconceived notions, and they're falling apart more and more every day, because no religious assertion is demonstrable.

 

If it were, it would no longer be religion.

 

There are liars among us, such as the trolls who pretend to nip at my heels here.  You are not one such.  You have, however, trusted liars who knew they were lying.

 

You are a Catholic.  Do you believe the Sacraments literally turn into the body and blood of a Jew who has been dead 2000 years?

 

DF

 

veeple123, ole deep has never had a spiritual experience in his life. what nut would spend his entire life on a forum trying to convince a certain Catholic that for no logical reason she should lend credibility to his blasphemy? A star stuff of the neutered persuasion one. His admitted, and on several other occasions, cursory examination of cosmology certainly bears out his being shallow as he calls himself. He is critical of believers but he has yet to produce a single witness to the big bang.lol  We have eye witness accounts of our beliefs.

‘a natural part of the universe’ what is that DF

Yes, Deep I do believe in transubstantiation. With my entire heart, mind and soul. And - you have one thing wrong about me- I was not "fed" this as a child. I actually was raised in an agnostic/non worshipping household. I had a deep conversion in isolation of familial or external influence. That, my dear is for me alone- although I have shared glimpses with you in PM- they remain that- private. You say my beliefs cannot be proven. That is true. The tenets of faith is precisely that- belief in the absence of truth. I am not so naive to believe in the 6000 year old earth, the literal story of Genesis, nor that this universe was created for us alone. It is enough for me to know that God had a hand in creation. Beyond my understanding. I believe that God transcends all time and space, and that science is evidence, and faith is intangible. And I wish you well, always. Cheers

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

 

Good for you.  But since the atheists spend all day trying to prove Christians are inferior and childish, is that any way to prove they are happy? I have also noticed that Semi will tear in to anyone who mentions religion in a good way unless it's VP, who she refuses to comment to.  So is it the religion that is the problem or the one who presents it?

 

Example of a 'happy' atheist:

I don't blame you for excessive hubris and lack of perspective, you have been taught this nonsense as truth all your life.  Your sweet nature tends to believe people who are kind to you.  This is an insidious system of lies, however. (added for the proper effect)

What is the difference in this statement:
With all sincerity, I would truly love to know that, one day, I will walk in heavenly fellowship with Deep and all of our non-believing Forum Friends.   But, of course, that is entirely up to them -- for the choice between eternal heaven and eternal hell -- is fully upon their shoulders; it is entirely their choice.

and this one:

Because He created everything for us! And if we blatantly reject Him and refuse Him , we won't spend eternity with Him. He sent His Son to show is how to live, and if we deny Him, we are denying our very selves. He gave everything to us, and if we don't want to share in that, we condemn ourselves.

other than the poster?

Seems to me that atheists are only 'happy' when being derogatory and condescending.

Just to add:

Religion reverses everything.

 

It does, just not always as expected or predicted.  Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but always on a personal level.

Vplee dear, rest assured; you have it right.

Good for you.  But since the atheists spend all day trying to prove Christians are inferior and childish, is that any way to prove they are happy? I have also noticed that Semi will tear in to anyone who mentions religion in a good way unless it's VP, who she refuses to comment to.  So is it the religion that is the problem or the one who presents it?

---------------------

Atheists spend all day trying to prove christians are inferior and childish? Do you have an example of that?  If you added up the total time atheists post about religion, I doubt it would be an hour or two a week. That's certainly a long way from all day. I don't think semi hates anyone, but if she does that's her business and I don't think she bases it on whether or not they are religious. 

I already quoted the above from DF, but if you want another:

You know I like you, but what you said above is kindergarten superstition, similar to avoiding the cracks on a sidewalk.

Please don't try to avoid the subject by claiming it doesn't happen. It seems that most posts by atheists or pseudo atheists include comments like:immature, childish, ignorant, naive, weak-minded, delusional, sheltered, brain-washed, etc....

One of the reasons I only stop by occasionally is due to the repetitiveness of the comments. Either Bill Gray is condemning everyone to Hell (why do any of you read his stuff?) or DF (appointed ring leader for the atheists) or someone else is being condescending or dismissive of any comments by people who enjoy their faith.

My philosophy is live and let live. I don't try to change your view and you don't change mine.  If a true discussion of the aspects of religion ever appear, I would jump into the fray, but this forum is always -did not, did too-so until the level of conversation gets past the third grade, I will drop a momentary comment or a fleeting response. Arguing the same points over and over is an exercise in futility.

If you want further examples, search the terms I used.

 If you added up the total time atheists post about religion, I doubt it would be an hour or two a week.

 

There is more time than that on this one thread alone. If you will look at the threads in religion, there are more comments from atheists than believers. In fact, DF would be top poster had his account not been cancelled and he had to start over. You are also in the top category, along with Semi. Bill is number one and Joy no longer posts here. So, atheists take the top categories so somebody is talking alot with their fingers.

Crumb, I think you are right in that a lot of our responses are molded by the "poster" to whom we respond. I think it's just simply because there are some who can disagree respectfully, and others who do not. Once respect and credibility is gone, the message will never be heard. As for me, if treated with kindness and respect, I reciprocate. I know I should do better about being that way to everyone, but once respect is thrown out, it is very difficult to earn back. As for the atheists on the forum, I do not believe that they want to call anyone away from religion. They have opinions, are frustrated by the tenet of faith, as it infiltrates daily politics and crosses the line of separation of church and state. Yikes I'm rambling. Sorry ---;-)

Originally Posted by vplee123:

Crumb, I think you are right in that a lot of our responses are molded by the "poster" to whom we respond. I think it's just simply because there are some who can disagree respectfully, and others who do not. Once respect and credibility is gone, the message will never be heard. As for me, if treated with kindness and respect, I reciprocate. I know I should do better about being that way to everyone, but once respect is thrown out, it is very difficult to earn back. As for the atheists on the forum, I do not believe that they want to call anyone away from religion. They have opinions, are frustrated by the tenet of faith, as it infiltrates daily politics and crosses the line of separation of church and state. Yikes I'm rambling. Sorry ---;-)

You are always a very respectful poster and I enjoy your comments.

 

I disagree with your statement that "(atheists) I do not believe that they want to call anyone away from religion", since all comments seem to be doing just that. To consider any form of religion a crutch or a delusion of a weak mind does seem to infer that while they may not state directly-become an atheist-the tone is definitely there. DF even stated you were ', but what you said above is kindergarten superstition' of the kindergarten level of intelligence. How you manage to take all comments in stride shows you really do walk the walk. Bravo.

If more of the comments were along the lines of actually dissecting religion and examining it from a philosophical realm, it would be wondrous.

May you have a wonderful day and enjoy your inner peace.  I have yet to find that, but I am working on it.

==========================================
How long do you think it takes to read a post and respond? DF would be top poster? Really? He posts, what, once every week and a half? Longer? More comments from atheists than believers? How odd, considering that there are maybe three atheists that post here. Right there is one thing that should concern you about yourself-your exaggerations, to put it politely. I think I made four posts on the religion forum yesterday. Again, how long do you think it takes to do that? It hardly lives up to your claim- the one you won't provide proof for, that-

 

"Atheists spend all day trying to prove christians are inferior and childish"

Well, to akin me to a kindergartener in faith is indeed a compliment. (Sorry deep- betcha didn't know that):-) But yes we are supposed to approach faith with childlike acceptance. Call it naive, blindness, it doesn't matter at all. My eyes are wide open to the truth, and I embrace it fully, without over- analyzing;-)

Best,

I have already given you examples. I am not doing your homework for you. While posting the actual comment may take only a few minutes, unless you post without reading the thread first, it will take several minutes to read the content, digest it in a respectful manner and then form an intelligent reply.

Atheists include yourself, DF ( he is NSNS now, but he was also BillyJoeBobGene or something and DeepFat for many years and his rank was number two before he was axed), Jank, Semi, Crash Override (Bumble and Willy Nelson), Crusty Mac (not really sure here, he detests Bill but I am not reading all his comments to find out his religious stance) Contendah (more of a Catholic hater specifically) Road Puppy, and a few others.  But I have wasted enough time on here.  Must prepare for work.

If you find me exaggerating, then ignore my comments.

Originally Posted by vplee123:

Well, to akin me to a kindergartener in faith is indeed a compliment. (Sorry deep- betcha didn't know that):-) But yes we are supposed to approach faith with childlike acceptance. Call it naive, blindness, it doesn't matter at all. My eyes are wide open to the truth, and I embrace it fully, without over- analyzing;-)

LOL. you are amazing.

Vplee dear, Deep Facet is a Pat Robertson. Their mojo the same. Their heads are similar in content and it’s presentation is beguiling. If you are indeed serious about God be careful that you don’t wander too close to his lair.  He will snatch you between the bars and it will be so sudden that semi cannot turn loose of your coat-tail and you will find her in there with you, wide-eyed and fascinated by the sins Deep has to offer. Veeplee I fear that after entering the tale will be for you as “ You suppose me a very old man, [woman]" he says, "but I am not. It took less than a single day to change these hairs from a jetty black to white, to weaken my limbs, and to unstring my nerves." “The narrator, convinced by the power of the

whirlpools he sees in the ocean beyond, is then told of the "old" man's fishing trip with his two brothers a few years ago.

Driven by "the most terrible hurricane that ever came out of the heavens", their ship was caught in the vortex. One brother was pulled into the waves; the other was driven mad by the horror of the spectacle, and drowned as the ship was pulled under. At first the narrator only saw hideous terror in the spectacle. In a moment of revelation, he saw that the Maelström is a beautiful and awesome creation. Observing how objects around him were pulled into it, he deduced that "the larger the bodies, the more rapid their descent" and that spherical-shaped objects were pulled in the fastest. Unlike his brother, he abandoned ship and held on to a cylindrical barrel until he was saved several hours later” [plot of Poe’s “Decent into the Maelstrom” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...o_the_Maelstr%C3%B6m

Quail, deep is a friend. He knows where I stand, and likewise. You don't need to worry about me- but thanks for your concern. I'm a really strong swimmer;-)

I have atheist friends myself vee the same caliber as Deep. I also have many Catholic friends too. I will enlist their vigilance on your behalf without regard to your trust. 

 

just remember: "False confidence is the forerunner of misfortune" [Aesop]

===================

Crusty, semi, contendah are not atheists. I haven't asked you to do anything for me except show proof of a claim you made. You made the claim, surely you'd have something to back it up. No, it does not take "several minutes" to read the thread if you only read one or two posters, and the answer "forms" as you read. If someone speaks to you does it take you several minutes to "digest"  what they have just said and another several minutes to reply? To read your post and reply took me less than one minute btw.

CRUMB I declare that crust and semi are sympathetic atheists. Sympathetic as in physics.

Uncontrolled oscillations as a result of those in another body. Monkey see monkey do type situation. Uncontrolled moniker  regardless of self awareness.

Veep, I cherish your sweet soul.
You said something that I want you to consider again.  You said " The tenets of faith is precisely that- belief in the absence of truth."
Truth.  Belief in the absence of Truth.
I consider this immoral.  That which makes us human is our ability to discern reality, in other words , "truth".  We are not entitled to our own truths.
The only way we can celebrate our humanity is to seek demonstrable truth.  Certain Creationists claim "We see the same evidence, but we come to different conclusions".  Nonsense.  A set of data can only come to one truthful conclusion.
Not only that, but we know the truth intuitively.  We know that bread and wine do not change into the literal body and blood of a Jew who's been dead for 2000 years.  Part of this intuition is the utter lack of any sort of evidence for it.

Regarding your transforming experience, I admit they happen.  I suspect, as do others, that they occur most often when someone needs an excuse to ignore the difficulties of life.  Sometimes they occur when one realizes that life is finite and temporary, and one would like more.  We must admit, that transformative experiences occur in all religions and philosophies.  That makes it a human, psychological phenomenon, not the voice of God.

It's my guess that you are a Christian because you want to be a good person.  My dear, you are a good person, regardless.  It's time everyone knows that one need not religion to be good.

Best,

df 

Poor semi does not see the contrivance by Deep to arrange for her to fall in his pit where he can devour her at his leisure.  [from “the Ass the Fox and the lion” a fable per Aesop]

I agree vee you need to consider that statement again

 

You said something that I want you to consider again.  You said " The tenets of faith is precisely that- belief in the absence of truth."  Yes that is "immoral" as Deep admits.