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I agree JJPaul, if the Corporate Media really did it's job the American people would not be so uninformed. The Pentagon backed Kerry and Gore shared a Noble prize yet in the eyes of the uninformed it's all lies.

Bush went AWOL and there was plenty of other evidence. Dan Rather was set up with a bogus source, a typical Rove trick, but as a supposedly veteran newsman he should have known better then go with one single source that had no back up.

Coincidentally Bush's military records are missing, from a Federal Building. He got into the National Guard because of his father's influence. It was hard to get into the Guard during the Vietnam War and the list was long. He refused to take drug tests and went AWOL.

The real war veterans, like Kerry and Max Cleveland, were slandered with lies while the corporate media remained silent.

I am a supporter of The Southern Poverty Law Center Southern Poverty Law Center
www.splcenter.org and have been since the mid 1980's. They track and sue hate groups and Howard is right. I believe it was in the 1920's and 30's they were a strong force and tens of thousands of them openly marched on Washington in a show of force.

These hate groups actually preach hate and violence and should be monitored. Anti War groups and Muslim Mosques don't always preach violence or hate. The FBI were monitoring the Catholic Workers, the Quakers and a few other groups for their opposition to the Iraq War, which I feel is ridiculous and scary. We have the right to our own opinions and to work to change policies.

Monitoring is questionable when they are just exercising their constitutional rights but when they are preaching hate and violence then monitoring is needed. Interfering and acting as "agent provocateurs" is wrong as is entrapping.
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
so it was the police burning the cars and looting the stores? better go back and look at that footage again. check your history. the cops were teargassing the terrorist leftists. you've got a bad case of 'revisionist history.'



gracieadeline, How do you know they were leftists? Are you sure they were not righties?
Pogo,

What federal building are Bush's records missing from. Last I heard, inactive Air Reserve personnel records were kept at the Air Reserve Center in Denver. The Air Guard published ads for pilots when W joined, so vacancies must have existed. Every claim of proof of AWOL has been disproven. No such proof has ever been presented, only innuendo.

Now, you claim Dan Rather and the media were setup by Rove in a massive operation. You give Rove, a political advisor, the capabilities of a professional espionage agency.

Prior to 911, the FBI monitored no religious organizations, even their websites. And, you don't know if a mosque is preaching hatred, until you check.
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
JJP,

As no rightists, to my knowledge, were arrested, I assume you have proof. Are is this more leftist obfuscation and agitprop?


No proof Howard and you have none either. What we do know is the kkk votes republican everytime and have done so ever since the act of the civil rights of 1964.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Howard Roark:

Pogo,

What federal building are Bush's records missing from. Last I heard, inactive Air Reserve personnel records were kept at the Air Reserve Center in Denver. The Air Guard published ads for pilots when W joined, so vacancies must have existed. Every claim of proof of AWOL has been disproven. No such proof has ever been presented, only innuendo.

Now, you claim Dan Rather and the media were setup by Rove in a massive operation. You give Rove, a political advisor, the capabilities of a professional espionage agency.

Prior to 911, the FBI monitored no religious organizations, even their websites. And, you don't know if a mosque is preaching hatred, until you check.


________________________________________________________________________________________________



I thought the records are kept in Federal Buildings but I could be mistaken, either way they are missing. There is proof Bush went AWOL and Rather was set up. He had bogus information that was fed to him by some military colonel, or whatever. I forget the details. It's a classic Rove style operation, like when he bugged his own office during a Gubernatorial race and Bush's opponent was immediately suspected. I think it was Jim Hightower who he was running against who got the blame. The race was close and it through the election to Bush.

See the documentary "Bush's Brain" for more details and some background on Rove and his history of dirty tricks.

Actually the FBI has been monitoring Mosques since the first WTC attack in 93. There has to be Probable Cause. Do they monitor the Christian Churches that condemn abortion or profile white males? Eric Rudolph is a white male and a Christian, so are other anti abortionist's who carryout acts of violence?

Timothy McVeigh and White Supremacists carry our acts of violence. Do they profile all White Males, especially ones who were in the military or own firearms?

Real al Qaeda operatives are who they want to stop and they are not preaching in Mosques.

Same with their entrapments, they are just entrapping lonely losers who would not have carried out any kind of plan on their own and are too stupid and too much of a risk for real al Qaeda operatives to get involved with.
Pogo,

Again just a claim of a setup -- that does not make it true. Another leftist obfuscation.

As to mosques

May 31, 2002 1:37:01 AM by kattracks



ASHINGTON, May 30 — Attorney General John Ashcroft said today that he was stepping up the fight against terrorism by expanding the F.B.I.'s authority to monitor the World Wide Web, political groups, libraries and religious organizations, including houses of worship like mosques.

Mr. Ashcroft said guidelines restricting the bureau, imposed a quarter of a century ago in response to abuses by federal law enforcement officials, were outdated and left investigators at a disadvantage in fighting terrorism today.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/692306/posts
quote:
Originally posted by gracieadeline:
kerry was exposed for the liar that he is, just as gore is being exposed now. full of fabrications. you 3 make a cute "couple".


Um, How is Gore a liar? If you are referring to the fact that his house was not converted to being solar powered right away, it is because of proper permitting in the city he lived in did not exist.

I know this for a fact, as I work with an engineer who managed this project. Technically, it was illegal for him to update his home to be more engery efficient. The city had to pass special legislation so that he COULD update his home.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2...-20-gore-solar_N.htm

If you can tell this is from 2007 (old news), so I am not sure what else you are referring to. If you are saying global warming is a big lie created by liberals, you should speak to Bush himself. Even he has acknowledged that global warming poses some threat and that it should be looked into more.

Let me ask you, what are you doing to be a good steward of the Earth? Do you leave every light on and run water constantly? Do you make 4 small trips to town instead of one big trip say on Saturday? At least Gore realized that, above anything else, America is wasteful and more can be done to conserve. It's not hard!! Why WOULDN'T we? America is a joke to the rest of the world (exclusive of China) as a wasteful society. We are materialist and want everything yesterday.

Anything else you might present is minute and not worth arguing over.
Yo, Gore lied to me, in person and face-to-face, when he was running with Bubba in 1992, when he visited the now-defunct Advanced Solid Rocket Motor facility in Iuka. He said that the program was a national priority, and he would ensure funding would continue. After he was elected, he folded like a cheap lawn chair. The project was cancelled right after the election.

So, yes, he's a liar.
quote:
Originally posted by Yo estoy de Russellvilla:

You know, if I could start an organization of my own, I would start some kind of group to have filthy, cranked out meth addicts shipped off to some island--away from me and away from their children. Obviously I wouldn't resort to killing, but at least ridding the place of lice-ridden meth heads like the pied piper would clean up the area and make it a lot safer for kids.



I'd be first in line to contribute to that organization!!
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Howard Roark:
Pogo,

Again just a claim of a setup -- that does not make it true. Another leftist obfuscation.

As to mosques

May 31, 2002 1:37:01 AM by kattracks

WASHINGTON, May 30 — Attorney General John Ashcroft said today that he was stepping up the fight against terrorism by expanding the F.B.I.'s authority to monitor the World Wide Web, political groups, libraries and religious organizations, including houses of worship like mosques.

Mr. Ashcroft said guidelines restricting the bureau, imposed a quarter of a century ago in response to abuses by federal law enforcement officials, were outdated and left investigators at a disadvantage in fighting terrorism today.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/692306/posts


________________________________________________________________________________________________


Dan Rather was given false information from a military officer, I forget the exact details, but they were bogus. As an experienced newsman he should have investigated it further. It was a set up and it's not too far a stretch to connect Rove, the king of dirty tricks. If you learn Rove's history you will see he was doing such things since collage. He was "inspired" by the dirty tricks of the Nixon Campaign.

After the first bombing of the WTC in 1993 I began following the investigation and the Sheik Rahman. They had been following him when he came from Egypt. The FBI had a paid informer, Salem, infiltrate the Mosque and Rahman's group. Salem was an "ex" Egyptian Military agent.

This might have been an isolated case though as Rahman came here from Egypt to escape prison.
Neither Kerry or Gore lied.

Kerry's story was backed by the Pentagon and the soldiers who were actually with him.

There may not be a total concessus on Global Warming but there is enough evidence to convince enough scientist, especially the top in their field, that Global Warming is man made. Gore shared a Noble Prize.

One of the ways they know is by finding how much Carbon and such existed in previous ages that they are discovering in deep ice that is melting. Another is the alarming rate that the earth is heating up.

The Hoax is the doubt spread by the Oil Industry's Campaign of paid scientists and studies to confuse people.

The Police were the ones to riot at the 1968 Democratic Convention
As I said, Al Gore lied. If it was knowingly or unknowingly, is the question.

An Inconvenient Verdict for Al Gore
British Court Ruling on Errors in 'An Inconvenient Truth' Resurrects Global Warming Debate

The verdict couldn't have come at a less convenient time for Al Gore.

One day before Friday's announcement that he was a co-winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, a British High Court judge ruled that Gore's global warming film, "An Inconvenient Truth," while "broadly accurate," contained nine significant errors.

The ruling came on a challenge from a UK school official who did not want to show the film to students. High Court Judge Michael Burton said that the film is "substantially founded upon scientific research and fact" but that the errors were made in "the context of alarmism and exaggeration."

Burton found that screening the film in British secondary schools violated laws barring the promotion of partisan political views in the classroom. But he allowed the film to be shown on the condition that it is accompanied by guidance notes to balance Gore's "one-sided" views, saying that the film's "apocalyptic vision" was not an impartial analysis of climate change.

The claim was originally filed by truck driver Stewart Dimmock, whose two children have not yet seen the film.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3719791&page=1
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
Also, by clinical psychologists and others dealing with paranoid schizophrenics.




Yes, we do have a lot of those paranoid schizophrenics walking around and some of these paranoid schizophrenics' background is religious and raised in a home where their family planted fear. They were taught to fear God, death, blacks, thunderstorms, and I could go on, from the research I've read on paranoid schizophrenics.
The entire left now seems to be cringing from thought of Rove and Cheney, expecting their assistant demons to descend upon them momentarily.

As I posted in another thread, DailyKos bunch now posit Obama as a Rovian stalking horse setup to take out Hillary and leave the road open to McCain. When you start down that road you no longer are in contact with reality. Makes those you've cited look almost normal.
Last edited by Howard Roark
I didn't see Al Gore's film but I have read that it is accurate and very good. I do believe some of the scientists did feel he over dramatized somewhat but it was for expediency and effect. I think in a couple of places he may have gotten his numbers wrong but in general it was right. Some of the issues are somewhat complicated and tend to "glaze over peoples eyes."

Dan Rather was fed Bogus information, as I said, as an experienced newsman he should have known to confirm his sources and do his homework. I heard one journalist says that is "Journalism 101." Rove has a history of dirty tricks and low tactics since his collage days. For the left to "cringe" at the thought of what he is up to next is not surprising.

The label of "Conspiracy Theory" was given to discredit anything that doubts the "official version" which is sometimes not only illogical but not possible. There are surely cases of lies and opportunists but people have to think for themselves and again, confirm sources.

The biggest "conspiracy theory" of all was Saddam's WMD and now Iran and Syria's secret nuclear weapons program.

Al Franken was not the only one to expose Limbaugh, the media watch group FAIR also showed he "really is making this stuff up,"
compared to Gore's over dramatization.
Pogo,

As to Al Gore –adjudicated liar!

“Al Gore’s inconvenient judgment
Al Gore’s award-winning climate change documentary was littered with nine inconvenient untruths, a judge ruled yesterday.
An Inconvenient Truth won plaudits from the environmental lobby and an Oscar from the film industry but was found wanting when it was scrutinised in the High Court in London.
Mr Justice Burton identified nine significant errors within the former presidential candidate’s documentary as he assessed whether it should be shown to school children. He agreed that Mr Gore’s film was “broadly accurate” in its presentation of the causes and likely effects of climate change but said that some of the claims were wrong and had arisen in “the context of alarmism and exaggeration

In what is a rare judicial ruling on what children can see in the class-room, Mr Justice Barton was at pains to point out that the “apocalyptic vision” presented in the film was politically partisan and not an impartial analysis of the science of climate change.

“It is plainly, as witnessed by the fact that it received an Oscar this year for best documentary film, a powerful, dramatically presented and highly professionally produced film,” he said in his ruling. “It is built around the charismatic presence of the ex-Vice-Presi-dent, Al Gore, whose crusade it now is to persuade the world of the dangers of climate change caused by global warming.

“It is now common ground that it is not simply a science film – although it is clear that it is based substantially on scientific research and opinion – but that it is a political film.”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/corp...w/article2633838.ece

Perhaps, one should remember that part on “An Inconvenient Truth” s contains video clips from “Day After Tomorrow – a fictional movie and a highly unscientific one, to boot.”

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Not one scintilla of proof or one iota of evidence has ever surface to connect Karl Rove with the Dan Rather fiasco. Its another imagineering job from the fever swamps of the left.
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As to Al Franken, not exactly a rose, himself.

We still don’t know his part in the scam that funneled $800,000 from a children’s charity to Air America.

I suppose he may use the excuse – I talked to Willie Nelson about my taxes, while we were smoking in the back of the bus.
“Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Al Franken, front-runner in the race to challenge Republican U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman, said on Tuesday that he has paid $70,000 in back taxes and penalties owed in 17 states, going back to 2003.

Franken, who has earned income across the country for celebrity appearances and speeches, blamed his accountant of 18 years for failing to pay the appropriate taxes owed in each state.”

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/18377884.html

Then, like the bleeding heart liberal, he is, he stiffs his employees for three years worth of benefits

“Not only did Franken "forget" to pay workers comp insurance in New York, where the transgression occurred, but he also neglected to provide disability benefits insurance in the state.

Of course, the self-avowed Liberal would be the first one to lambaste a Republican or Conservative who did so much as not acquire mandated automobile insurance coverage, or professional liability coverage. But in the case of providing workers comp insurance for the common man -- workers who belong to unions or who are paid an hourly wage -- well, Franken somehow appears to believe that he should be given a pass.”

http://www.ifawebnews.com/articles/2008/04/18/blogs/pub...ef45604899974895.txt
It is so funny to see that if a Democrat doesn't follow through on something--they flat out lied. If a Republican folds, it's someone/something elses fault. It's always a very complex situation and a pub was merely the pawn. Democrats are just evil and out to get everyone.

You guys laugh and joke about BDS, but I suggest looking in the mirror. You will find you are more paranoid than you think.

I see a few people who know the White House is about to be taken over by a Democrat, and they might be looking for "real" jobs....
The more I associate myself with the slimy business of politics, the more I tend to agree with Yo. There are sufficient cretins on either side of the aisle to make one wish a large garbage truck would just pick the whole lot of them up and carry them to someplace where they might do some good...a glue factory, for example. But as far as your post...

One side: It is so funny to see that if a Democrat doesn't follow through on something--they flat out lied. If a Republican folds, it's someone/something elses fault. It's always a very complex situation and a pub was merely the pawn. Democrats are just evil and out to get everyone.

The other side: It is so funny to see that if a Republican doesn't follow through on something--they flat out lied. If a Democrat folds, it's someone/something elses fault. It's always a very complex situation and a dim was merely the pawn. Republicans are just evil and out to get everyone.

The rhetoric is interchangeable. There are decent republicans and I'm certain there are decent democrats; they seem to have faded into the background from the far-left radicals that have seemed to hijack the party. And maybe republicans aren't far behind them as there are far-right scoundrels who are trying the same thing. Perhaps we should just clean house and start all over again, but I fear the temptations of power would corrupt anyone in that position.

Herman Kahn, social analyst and philosopher, speculated that the natural form of human government was empire, and the natural tendency of an empire is to expand, there being no natural limit to that expansion save running up against another empire of equal or greater strength. When you contemplate the excesses of government of ANY party against Kahn's hypothesis, you can see the natural progression.
quote:
Originally posted by Yo estoy de Russellvilla:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
The more I associate myself with the slimy business of politics, the more I tend to agree with Yo. There are sufficient cretins on either side of the aisle to make one wish a large garbage truck would just pick the whole lot of them up and carry them to someplace where they might do some good...a glue factory, for example. But as far as your post...

One side: It is so funny to see that if a Democrat doesn't follow through on something--they flat out lied. If a Republican folds, it's someone/something elses fault. It's always a very complex situation and a pub was merely the pawn. Democrats are just evil and out to get everyone.

The other side: It is so funny to see that if a Republican doesn't follow through on something--they flat out lied. If a Democrat folds, it's someone/something elses fault. It's always a very complex situation and a dim was merely the pawn. Republicans are just evil and out to get everyone.

The rhetoric is interchangeable. There are decent republicans and I'm certain there are decent democrats; they seem to have faded into the background from the far-left radicals that have seemed to hijack the party. And maybe republicans aren't far behind them as there are far-right scoundrels who are trying the same thing. Perhaps we should just clean house and start all over again, but I fear the temptations of power would corrupt anyone in that position.

Herman Kahn, social analyst and philosopher, speculated that the natural form of human government was empire, and the natural tendency of an empire is to expand, there being no natural limit to that expansion save running up against another empire of equal or greater strength. When you contemplate the excesses of government of ANY party against Kahn's hypothesis, you can see the natural progression.


The whole game of politics is corrupt. Everyone IS cheating and swindling. I wish a great flood WOULD come and wipe them all out, but as you also pointed out, most would just become corrupt again.

THIS is why I never want some things perverted by government. My faith comes to mind....

This is why, at the moment, I cannot associate with the GOP. They have been hijacked by Pat Robertson and the 700 club.

Maybe one day, the parties will shift again. I would prefer a third or fourth party emerge for people who are sick to death of all of this petty crap!

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