Scientists Speak About Intelligent Design

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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his is not a new ploy with Deep and Fish. Any time they do not have a real answer -- they try one of two ploys.

Bill,

Deep has an answer. It's just that you two are so blindingly ignorant that answering with a thoughtful response will probably be a waste of time.

If M were to ask me, I would inform him that there is an unbroken lineage of ancestors from me to my dad to my dad's dad and so on. Each of those generations were just slightly different from the previous generation. The changes between a few hundred generations can not even be measured. The changes between a few thousand generations can just barely be measured. Changes that span tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of generations can seen in the fossil record.

That is all "evolution" means: Very small changes over unimaginable amounts of time resulting in speciation.

If you go back an unimaginably long time, about 100,000 generations, you will find one of my (and your) ancestors that looked like a cross between a hairy, ape and a hairless human. If he were alive today, you might not even notice him walking down a city street but a closer examination would revel someone who looked much like the Geico man in the commercial. We was probably naked, used stone tools and lived somewhere south of the convergence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

200,000 generations before him, you find a 3.5"-foot tall, skinny primate flitting between the dwindling jungle-islands on the African plains. A few tens of thousands of generations before that, you find one of my guys swinging from a tree and throwing dung and his enemies. Prior to that, you would find a marsupial-like creature burrowing under the leaves and burrowing in the ground hiding from T-rex.

That is what dozens of convergent, corroborated branches of science tells us, Bill. Either it happened this way or Yahweh has planted the evidence just to make it seem this way.

This is third grade, basic evolution, Bill. Its not hard to grasp. You just have to open your eyes to the possibility that the bible isn't a science book.

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What about before the marsupial like creature.....what was there? Where did it come from? Simple Question.

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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What about before the marsupial like creature.....what was there? Where did it come from? Simple Question.

The molecular evidence currently indicates that mamals evolved from reptiles. Reptiles evolved from vertebrates. Vertebrates from non vertebrates, non vertebrates from cell colonies, cell colonies from single cell organisms, CCO's from RNA and RNA from self-organizing chemicals not much more complicated than soap bubbles.

All that came only after a billion sun exploded the created the heavy elements the created rockes that created accreation discs that created the sun that created the plantets that attracted comets loaded with the building blocks of life.

I skipped over a kajillion steps in between but this will give you an idea. Origins and evolution ilustrates less complex forms evolving into more complex forms.

An excellent show on the subject is here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/

This is the barest highlights of 4 billion years of hard work by our molecules, Lents.

Come on, Lentz, what's your point? Where do you want to go with this?

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What was before that? In other words.....what preceded those molecules and what were their origin?

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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What was before that? In other words.....what preceded those molecules and what were their origin?

Mr, Lentz,

Your questions are like those of a very annoying child. I only have so much patience. Please make your point.

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I promise.......this is no trick question.

Again......what existed before the 4 billion years of hard work by our molecules. I truly want to know what existing before then.

Thanks.

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yes please explain

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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yes please explain

Okay, rather than a constant regression of "what happened before that" lets start with this:

Okay, some basics: A galaxy is a "swarm" of stars consisting of a hundred billion (or so) stars. Many of the "stars" you see in the night sky are actually these galaxies. There are literally more galaxies in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of all the earth. Put that in your bong and smoke it.

Back in the 1920's, a guy named Edwin Hubble (the guy they named the space telescope after) proved that these galaxies were moving away from each other at enormous speeds. Yes, everything in the sky is moving away from everything else. It is as if we are witnessing an explosion from inside the explosion itself.

So, if everything is moving away from everything else, then one can't help but presume that all the galaxies were once closer together. Go back far enough, and you have a point where everything in the universe was contained in a space innately smaller than the size of the period at the end of this sentence. At the point, the laws of the universe simply don't apply. This infinitesimally small "point" was the cosmic egg. The Beginning of the Big Bang.

There have been countless scientific observations and experiments since Hubble (notably background radiation studies) that have confirmed the basics of the Big Bang beyond a rational doubt.

So, start from there. The entire universe had a starting point (perhaps even multiple starting points). Molecules came into existence at some point, Mr. Lentz. The universe became more and more complex and structured over time as it sought equilibrium. Matter formed. The elements (only 117 of them) were "created." Life evolved.

If you want to insert a deity at this beginning "point" you are welcomed to, of course. Beyond that, science has some pretty darn good rational explanations.

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all came from something as small as the period in my writing

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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all came from something as small as the period in my writing

Bill,

I agree it is unbelievable. Preposterous. Ridiculous. Far beyond my ability to deeply understand.

That does not change the fact that the a ball of mass the size of your fist has enough energy to destroy a very large city using today's technology. That's one helluva lot of energy from a tiny bit of mass.

Your primitive beliefs to not change the fact that black holes exist. Black holes are infinitely small points of mass that contain the mass of a hundred, a million, a billion or more suns. We observe them, literally, everywhere we look in our universe.

Black holes are based on the same principals as the Big Bang.

Want to feel humble? Check it:
http://sci.gallaudet.edu/Science/relativesizes.html

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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yes please explain

Okay, rather than a constant regression of "what happened before that" lets start with this:

Okay, some basics: A galaxy is a "swarm" of stars consisting of a hundred billion (or so) stars. Many of the "stars" you see in the night sky are actually these galaxies. There are literally more galaxies in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of all the earth. Put that in your bong and smoke it.

Back in the 1920's, a guy named Edwin Hubble (the guy they named the space telescope after) proved that these galaxies were moving away from each other at enormous speeds. Yes, everything in the sky is moving away from everything else. It is as if we are witnessing an explosion from inside the explosion itself.

So, if everything is moving away from everything else, then one can't help but presume that all the galaxies were once closer together. Go back far enough, and you have a point where everything in the universe was contained in a space innately smaller than the size of the period at the end of this sentence. At the point, the laws of the universe simply don't apply. This infinitesimally small "point" was the cosmic egg. The Beginning of the Big Bang.

There have been countless scientific observations and experiments since Hubble (notably background radiation studies) that have confirmed the basics of the Big Bang beyond a rational doubt.

So, start from there. The entire universe had a starting point (perhaps even multiple starting points). Molecules came into existence at some point, Mr. Lentz. The universe became more and more complex and structured over time as it sought equilibrium. Matter formed. The elements (only 117 of them) were "created." Life evolved.

If you want to insert a deity at this beginning "point" you are welcomed to, of course. Beyond that, science has some pretty darn good rational explanations.

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Okay, some basics: A galaxy is a "swarm" of stars consisting of a hundred billion (or so) stars. Many of the "stars" you see in the night sky are actually these galaxies. There are literally more galaxies in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of all the earth. Put that in your bong and smoke it.

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Originally posted by DeepFat:
M,

Rather than play juvenile games, give us your hypothesis.

Make sure you have evidence to back it up, ok?

DF

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Tell me..........what was before the small period you refer too in your post that initiated the Big Bang. What was before that?

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Originally posted by DeepFat:
2 each,

Maybe you should start smoking something. GF is entirely correct in that many of the "stars" we see at night are galaxies containing hundreds of billions of stars.

This is elementary cosmology. May I presume you believe in the celestial sphere on which the stars are painted for our amusement?

Everything GF has said about the universe is absolutely correct, but he left out one thing.

The Universe is much more impressive and magnificent than the Earth-centered astrology of the bible.

The simple people who wrote that book knew nothing of cosmology, and that would be expected except that they were supposed to be knowledgeable about life, the universe, and everything. It's one of the numerous physical errors in that "inerrant" book.

Buy some Zig Zags and talk to a high school kid about getting something. Obviously your mind needs expanding.

DF

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At some point there was darkness then there was light. And it was good.

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There are only two:

M31 and M33

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Life was made one way that is from God, not some cosmic matter as you would want one to believe. But if thats what you wanna believe thats all on you.

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Originally posted by GoFish:
Ahh. I presumed you were saying there are only two galaxies in the universe. I now see that are attempting to say is that there are only two galaxies visible to the naked eye.

There are actually 4.

I admit to not knowing this little fact until just now. Thanks for making me look that up!

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But if God is real (which you believe he isn't) what will you have to lose?

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Originally posted by GoFish:

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Tell me..........what was before the small period you refer too in your post that initiated the Big Bang. What was before that?

Spinoza's God? The Creator? Something? Honestly, we don't really know.

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Originally posted by DeepFat:
rramalama,

Thanks. I don't know why, but I presumed we could see lots more with the nekkid eye.

DF

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Still waiting on the rest of my question to be answered? What was before the beginning of the Universe?

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Originally posted by MLentz:
Tel me.........how do you know that?

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Carl Sagan wrote, shortly before he died,

"How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, 'This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant'? Instead they say, 'No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.' A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths."