Scientists Speak About Intelligent Design

Mr. Bill,

That entire video is another example of Lying For Jesus.

Let's start with Steven Meyer, and his co-conspirator Richard Sternberg. Sternberg abused his position as editor of the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. to publish a non-peer reviewed screed on ID, written by Mr. Meyer. The article was rebuked and renounced by the editorial staff of the periodical for the best of reasons: It's a lie.

Jonathan Wells has a "pHD" in Religious Studies, hardly a reference for his being a stellar proponent for ID or anything else scientific. He is closely attached to Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, another bastion of progressive thinking, and his anti-evolution rants come from that "Reverend's" opinions.

Scott Minich is a fellow of the Discovery Institute, and is therefor suspect as to scientific objectivism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Minnich
His attachment to the discredited "Dr" Michael Behe stains his views badly.

Jay Richards has a pHD in Theology and philosophy, hardly a credential for spouting his opinions of biology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Richards

Robin Collins has a pHD in philosophy. Yet another person who is ill-equipped to give expert testimony on evolutionary biology.

I hardly need mention the sad case of Guillermo Gonzales. Dr. Gonzales was denied tenure at Iowa State for lack of published, peer-reviewed contributions to the state of science, as well as his overall lack of promise in the field of astronomy. Hardly a reference for any controversial, positive notion.

Lee Strobel is a journalist and preacher. OK, as far as that goes, but he's no authoritative voice on evolutionary biology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Strobel

Mr. Bill, if these sources are the best you have, your argument is as weak as I thought it was. Nice music, slick video, extraordinarily weak science.

DF

One of the talking heads is listed as a "Philosopher of Science", another as a "Philosopher of Biology."

Would you take your car to a Philosopher of Auto Mechanics?

Do Click and Clack count?

DF

Hi Deep,

If you had said anything different, I would have been disappointed. Your disapproval lends credibility to what is said on the video.

On the other hand; if you HAD agreed with anyone on the video -- I would have had to rethink my position. How could I possibly believe that anyone you would believe would be credible?

Thank you for that accreditation. Now, I know that I can continue to recommend the video to other Friends.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:
One of the talking heads is listed as a "Philosopher of Science", another as a "Philosopher of Biology."

Would you take your car to a Philosopher of Auto Mechanics?

I can't speak for the people in that video or their credentials, but I can say that Philosophers of Science do indeed have the requisite credentials to critique their scientific field of inquiry. Karl popper was a philosopher of science, as is Roger Penrose and many others.

I may not take my car to a philosopher of auto mechanics for repair, but if I had a question about how it REALLY worked at the most fundamental level, I would rather have the philosopher answer that instead of the mechanic.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Do Click and Clack count?
DF

They were educated at MIT. They have to try not to sound incredibly smart. Seriously.

quote:

Thank you for that accreditation. Now, I know that I can continue to recommend the video to other Friends.

Like the Expelled video, your discredited series will succeed in convincing stupid people of the validity of a 6000 year old earth.

I beleive educated people will see the lies be motivated to explore rationalism.

Mr. Bill,

Yes, you can count on me to stand up for truth and reality every time they are assaulted by superstition, lies, and nonsense.

Every time.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by SittinPurdy:

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:
One of the talking heads is listed as a "Philosopher of Science", another as a "Philosopher of Biology."

Would you take your car to a Philosopher of Auto Mechanics?

I can't speak for the people in that video or their credentials, but I can say that Philosophers of Science do indeed have the requisite credentials to critique their scientific field of inquiry. Karl popper was a philosopher of science, as is Roger Penrose and many others.

I may not take my car to a philosopher of auto mechanics for repair, but if I had a question about how it REALLY worked at the most fundamental level, I would rather have the philosopher answer that instead of the mechanic.

Okay, I'd never heard of a Philosopher of Science. From what I can tell, degrees in Philosophy of Science seem to be awarded by History Schools or Departments.

So, if I want to know the history behind auto mechanic thought and theory, I'll get a Philosopher of Auto Mechanics help. Otherwise, I'll get an auto mechanic to help me understand how an engine works, or an engineer to design one.

Hi Deep and Fish,

Yes, I know I can count on you for the truth -- much the same way as I can count of a used car salesman to sell me a car which has no problems.

By the way, Fish, you seem to have a low opinion of folks educated at MIT. I guess where you got your doctorate is a much better school -- but, I do give a wee bit of credit to those poor folks who got ed-you-kated at rundown old MIT and CalTech. Since their education is of such low quality -- I just don't know how they can make it in the real world.

But, of course, I know that you are doing much better and will make a fine politician -- for the school where you obtained you Ph.D. is far above lowly old MIT.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Mr. Bill,

This car is certified, inspected, maintained, runs like a top, and is guaranteed 100%. Money back if you're not delighted.

The thing that bugs me is that you and the rest of the C/ID crowd knows that the world is very old, and that evolution occurred, yet you will not admit it. That sort of deliberate dishonesty is a bit grating, I must admit.

DF

Hi Y'all,

While I know that you look down your very knowledgeable noses at those guys who have only the title "Philosopher of Science" or the title of "Philosopher of Biology" and such; I wonder if you know what that means. Have you ever wondered, or cared, what the letters Ph.D. mean? Well, to be sure you have a well rounded education -- Ph.D. means: "Doctorate of Philosophy" in different fields, i.e., a person with a Ph.D. in Biology can also be called a "Philosopher of Biology" -- or a "Doctor of Philosophy in Biology" as a person chooses.

A list of advanced degrees taken from a college web site:

Biochemistry and Molecular Biology:
Doctor of Philosophy

Biology :
Master of Science
Master of Science (Research)
Doctor of Philosophy

Biomedical Engineering:
Master of Science
Master of Science (Research)
Doctor of Philosophy

Chemistry:
Master of Science
Master of Science (Research)
Doctor of Philosophy (Integrated & Applied Sciences)

But, I guess these do not match your Ph.D. in BS. Or as one of our Used Car Salesmen Duo likes to say, "It's only MIT. What do they know?"

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

*shaking my head at Mr. Bill re MIT*


DF

quote:

By the way, Fish, you seem to have a low opinion of folks educated at MIT

Bill,

You misunderstood. I was simply pointing out that Click and Clack are MIT graduates. Nothing more or less.

Most people don't know that.

quote:

The thing that bugs me is that you and the rest of the C/ID crowd knows that the world is very old, and that evolution occurred, yet you will not admit it. That sort of deliberate dishonesty is a bit grating, I must admit.

DF

excuse me DF, but you are not speaking the truth. you have no right to assume that you know what i think, and that i'd lie about it. so your 'bugs' are coming from another source.

hip,

I was being generous, as I always am. The alternative to the hypocrisy of which I spoke is irredeemable stupidity.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
hip,
I was being generous, as I always am. The alternative to the hypocrisy of which I spoke is irredeemable stupidity.
DF

so you are saying that (I) am either a liar or forever stupid? and i should rather choose to be a liar than stupid?

first of all, liars are in danger of hell-fire, and lying to anyone is not worth grieving my Father or giving up my Heavenly home.

where do you get the hocus-pocus to read minds? only God can do that. be careful in attempting to elevate yourself to His lofty presence. pride comes before a fall, you know.

some day you will stand before Almighty God, and you will answer for all your slurs against Him and His children. i have already forgiven you, but without repentance on your part, God will hold you accountable for every innuendo and ugly word you say. may God have mercy on us all.

Hip,

I'm not saying you're a liar or forever stupid. You can learn.

We know, as a species, that Creationism/ID is not true. We have developed and learned and discovered the knowledge to *know* this.

But, as you have admitted, science is not your thing. If you are going to opine on the validity of science, you should educate yourself first or risk looking IDiotic. Biology is a scientific pursuit. You can bow out of the discussion, but otherwise you must either accept the mountains of evidence for evolution, come up with another scientifically-based explanation for the development of species, or look like a fool.

ID is not a scientifically based alternative. It's a religious alternative, and we have way too much experience with religion posing for science to take that seriously anymore. We've gone beyond that.

Shaking my fist at god? That is absurd on the face of it. You shaking your fist at science is much sadder.

Hocus pocus is your milieu, not mine. I do, however, know reality and truth when I see it, and when it comes to biology, you do not or you will not. That brings me back to my original point: C/ID is either hypocrisy or irredeemable stupidity.

DF

you have your 'facts', and i have mine.
i'll stand on God's Word. you can stand on any sinking quick-sand you choose, of course.