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I'm moving this discussion to a new post because it has commandeered another post that needs to stay more on topic.

 

THG says to my point:

 

" He has a chance every second.  My mind is not closed, just aware. 

DF


hg> Deep, when YOU seek Him, then He will reveal Himself to you"


THG, when YOU seek the FSM, then He will reveal himself to you.  Don't you see how this works?  Isn't it at all clear that the gods are things we talk ourselves into and fool ourselves into believing?  Your one sentence demonstrates both things quite concisely.


If I were to seek a unicorn, I would first have to believe that unicorns exist, or else I'd have to admit I was on a fool's errand.  If I first convince myself that there is a god (or gods) only then can I do something as silly as invite him into my heart.  You must understand I remain unconvinced of this necessary prerequisite.


I love my cat.  He exists, and did so before I came to love him.  It's just necessary.


That's why when I see people who make the sadly laughable statement "Christianity is not a religion, it's a personal relationship with Jesus" I cringe.  Jesus is dead.  Has been for almost 2000 years.


I'm not an atheist, I just have a personal relationship with sanity.


DF

 

Make time for great justice.  Expect us.

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Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Good post DF.

 

I saw a picture a couple of days ago that your post reminded me of.

 

"Why don't I go to Church? Same reason you don't go Unicorn hunting."

 

My dear Jank, let's go hunting Unicorns soon.  Bring the Significant Other, and several bottles of Holy Wine.  I'll bring a roasted duck, stuffed with spicy sausages and some bread.  We will spare the unicorns we find.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

I find myself underwhelmed at the ability of the pious to recognize satire.

Does anyone here really... really?... think that I give one shirt about the divine?  Really?

 

I exist to expose the silliness of Fundamentalism.  I've had a good day.

 

 

DF

If you don't believe in God, why do you spend so much time fighting a myth?

 

Why not spend your time partying down with your fellow atheists? 

Partying down? There are atheist parties? Where the heck are all these atheists that are "partying hardy", as one old fossil puts it, and now the ones partying down? Last party I went to was our friends father's birthday party. He's 87. Now I'll admit some of the ladies did get a bit wild, someone brought hula hoops to the party, but we didn't have to call the cops. 

Originally Posted by Crumbpicker:

Being the atheist that you are, you made a very curious statement.

 

Jesus is dead.  Has been for almost 2000 years.


So you believe that Jesus existed?

===================

First let me be clear, I'm not "speaking" for nsns, but that's not an uncommon statement. It's the same as saying "harry potter is all grown up." Just like with any fictional character, you "give them life" so to speak, when discussing them.  Again, can't speak for nsns, but I'm sure plenty will say jesus may have lived, but he was just a man, no "son of god/gods". I don't think he existed, but I might say something along the same line, such as, do you think jesus ever married? 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

I'm moving this discussion to a new post because it has commandeered another post that needs to stay more on topic.

 

THG says to my point:

 " He has a chance every second.  My mind is not closed, just aware. 

DF

hg> Deep, when YOU seek Him, then He will reveal Himself to you"


THG, when YOU seek the FSM, then He will reveal himself to you.  Don't you see how this works?  Isn't it at all clear that the gods are things we talk ourselves into and fool ourselves into believing?

hg> nope, even aside from my belief, i've seen Him work in my life and others too many times to deny that He is God!  

Your one sentence demonstrates both things quite concisely.


If I were to seek a unicorn, I would first have to believe that unicorns exist, or else I'd have to admit I was on a fool's errand.  If I first convince myself that there is a god (or gods) only then can I do something as silly as invite him into my heart.  You must understand I remain unconvinced of this necessary prerequisite.

hg> i do understand. you must understand that He pushes Himself on no one, therefore there is no way to 'prove' to you that He exists, other than you meeting Him yourself. it's all your choice, part of the freedom He gives us all.


I love my cat.  He exists, and did so before I came to love him.  It's just necessary.

hg> not with God...we can only love with a human heart through our existence in 'time'. God doesn't base His love on who we are or what we've done or what we do for Him. He loves us because we are the shining star of His creation. He loved us before the world began. He's known us since before time was created. He has loved us all every moment of every day, and will do so throughout eternity. 


That's why when I see people who make the sadly laughable statement "Christianity is not a religion, it's a personal relationship with Jesus" I cringe.  Jesus is dead.  Has been for almost 2000 years.

hg> well here comes another *sad laugh cringe* DF...when i got saved, i was 'just a Christian', believing that God was a master who doled out rules from His throne on high, and punished us accordingly, trying to keep us out of hell. i wanted to go to Heaven because i didn't want to go to hell. i don't remember a time that i was taught about wanting to be in Heaven because Jesus was there. that was the rigid 'religion' i lived under....

but while devastated in circumstances beyond my control, God revealed to me that He loved me unconditionally, and would never leave or forsake me. i realized that Jesus did indeed live in my heart, and He became my closest friend. i no longer live under laws that restrict my freedom in Him. i really have given up 'religion' for a personal relationship with Him. it's a totally different life.


I'm not an atheist, I just have a personal relationship with sanity.


DF

 

Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

I find myself underwhelmed at the ability of the pious to recognize satire.

Does anyone here really... really?... think that I give one shirt about the divine?  Really?

 

I exist to expose the silliness of Fundamentalism.  I've had a good day.

 

 

DF

If you don't believe in God, why do you spend so much time fighting a myth?

 

Why not spend your time partying down with your fellow atheists? 

deep, i'll have to admit you had me fooled. i thought you had become resonable. after all it is reasonable that the universe was created. there is no evidence otherwise. FCOL we do not know the mechanism by which these raysof energy are transmitted by whicht these scopes map the CMB. do you not find it odd that the rastor on your TV screen never syncs? there was no classical beginning, there certainly was no big bang. the big bang is like the FSM. all in your head along with the scientists that believe it and discount anything else.

a presision at which is claimed by these scientist in monitoring these frequencies is an impossibility to machine a waveguide that would not allow sum and differences to show up as data mixed in with the observation. the devices are not at absolute zero allowing for heat energy to interfereand give false positive results. all the anomilies are discounted and ignored and handwaved away. i keep up with this stuff lad.

This is patent inanity.

 

hg> not with God...we can only love with a human heart through our existence in 'time'. God doesn't base His love on who we are or what we've done or what we do for Him. He loves us because we are the shining star of His creation. He loved us before the world began. He's known us since before time was created. He has loved us all every moment of every day, and will do so throughout eternity.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by Crumbpicker:

Being the atheist that you are, you made a very curious statement.

 

Jesus is dead.  Has been for almost 2000 years.


So you believe that Jesus existed?

===================

First let me be clear, I'm not "speaking" for nsns, but that's not an uncommon statement. It's the same as saying "harry potter is all grown up." Just like with any fictional character, you "give them life" so to speak, when discussing them.  Again, can't speak for nsns, but I'm sure plenty will say jesus may have lived, but he was just a man, no "son of god/gods". I don't think he existed, but I might say something along the same line, such as, do you think jesus ever married? 

A valid point but still a little off. I would not say the Easter Bunny is dead. I would say it never existed. To say that someone or something is dead when it never existed gives that very thing 'existence'; and to add, since there is an ongoing discussion of the possibility of there being omnipotent beings, which neither side is winning, to make a blatant 'statement of fact' based on an opinion is not acceptable.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

It's likely that an eccentric rabbi existed named Jesus, but he was not, of course, the son of god.

 

DF

That is only your opinion. Based on your non belief in omnipotent beings. As a man trained in science, you have violated the first rule of science, approach any idea with an open mind. Does any beings exist that we are unable to discover? How would we proceed on this task? Given that the very nature of an omnipotent being is to exist outside the laws of normal space and time, we have no way to prove whether any exist or not. If this being did not wish to be discovered, they would not. We  accepted 'time' as an element of dimensions and we also know that time can slow down or speed up if certain conditions are met. This very discovery upset many of the scientific minds. Time was supposed to be a constant. Time is now being considered as a separate aspect of existence, separate from other dimensions.

 

What else will be discovered?

 You would say the easter bunny is dead IF there had only been one easter bunny, and in the story about him he was killed in the end. Not to argue, but if you claim there was a jesus, aren't you making a "statement of fact" based only on your opinion? People are allowed to do that you know. It's going to happen that you hear someone who doesn't believe in a god/gods say, "jesus/god did this or that".  People are always going to discuss fictional characters like I said, and "give them life" when they do, that's the way people have discussions about any character, be they in a book or a movie, tv series, whatever. 

Do you or anyone you know follow any show on tv? When you discuss it do you ask/say, " I missed the show, what did that person that is only made up, do"?  "Did he confront that other person that is only made up"? Again, harry potter is grown up. His parents are dead. There is no harry potter, no parents, there never was. People understand this, they know he never existed, yet for their discussions they "give them life". 

 Crumb writes: 

That is only your opinion. Based on your non belief in omnipotent beings. As a man trained in science, you have violated the first rule of science, approach any idea with an open mind.

 

My mind is open, but not so much that my brain falls out.  If you have evidence of the gods, let's see it.  I am well within my rights to gauge the evidence presented so far and find it entirely lacking.  If I'm wrong, I want to know it.  Show me.

 

On to another point, I have yet to see a cogent response to the initial point of this topic.  Anyone?

 

DF

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

 Crumb writes: 

That is only your opinion. Based on your non belief in omnipotent beings. As a man trained in science, you have violated the first rule of science, approach any idea with an open mind.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My mind is open, but not so much that my brain falls out.  If you have evidence of the gods, let's see it.  I am well within my rights to gauge the evidence presented so far and find it entirely lacking.  If I'm wrong, I want to know it.  Show me.

 

On to another point, I have yet to see a cogent response to the initial point of this topic.  Anyone?

 

DF

I believe I have already stated many times there is no scientific evidence for or against the existence of a supernatural being. Given that you are trying to put parameters around something that would have none, it is a futile effort.

 

As for the 'cogent response'.I think everyone has been around that track a few thousands times.

 

Enjoy your search.

Wait...what? Crumb, I thought you were insisting on using scientific rules in this discussion?

 

 Crumb your stance is merely a guess, and opinion as you said. DF's is the default. Without any kind of substantiated evidence why would you believe? Why should anyone believe in a supernatural being?

 

You brought science into this discussion, yet now you back away and say science has nothing to do with it.

 

If all we have to go on is that its possible, then I could name at least 10 other ways the Universe came into existence. I have heard the idea that we could all just be part of a computer game. That we are nothing more than a Sims game. No way to prove or disprove that idea in this day and age, so its just as much of a possibility, right?  Is your mind open to that Crumb?

 

 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

This is patent inanity.

 

hg> not with God...we can only love with a human heart through our existence in 'time'. God doesn't base His love on who we are or what we've done or what we do for Him. He loves us because we are the shining star of His creation. He loved us before the world began. He's known us since before time was created. He has loved us all every moment of every day, and will do so throughout eternity.

DF, this will all become clearly evident on Judgement Day. i'm just praying you realize it before then, so you can spend your eternity in Heaven. we'd love to have you there, praising and worshiping God around the Throne with us. sincerely!!

Chomondeley notwithstanding, we have not beaten my point to death by any means.  Crumb writes: 

 

As for the 'cogent response'.I think everyone has been around that track a few thousands times.

 

To repeat, in order to ask the gods into my heart and head, I must first believe in them.  At least I must accept the likelihood of their existence.  Mustn't I?  Otherwise, I'd be like the Rabbi in Jerusalem... talking to a wall.

 

DF

Deep my dear, I have read your initial post and…….would you put your point in a single short sentence?

Your rhetorical muse? Can that be a point? Your cringing? Should we believe what you have convinced yourself of?

I’m truly lost .

You are becoming suspect; you are absent from the forum for extended times and un announced you suddenly re-appear as does jank none-the -better at following reason.

It is reasonable that you believe in a God the creator.

DICTIONARY

reasonable

Definition

rea·son·a·ble

[ rz'nəb'l ]

To hear the pronunciation, install Silverlight

ADJECTIVE

1.

rational: sensible and capable of making rational judgments

"He did what any reasonable person would have done in that situation."

Do what reasonable, rational people do Deep. Believe in God.

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